A little rant about unbalanced monks in PVP

Owned.

Here you go:




Nerf them too....

LOL! I knew it was coming!

Dwig

what are those 2 small icons next to your start... I mean option button? is this a customed UI?

One is the inventory box, and one is the log out button. I dragged them on to my screen once and was too lazy to delete them at the time so I just threw them in a corner. I have everything hotkeyed so I don't see the need to customize anything except the buff/debuff bar, which I just move into an area that is easier to see then the top left.

This is all very funny.

"Seriously, you guys don't think there's something seriously wrong when three (hell, you could probably have a full team) of W/Mo's are completely unable to kill ONE defensive monk?"

There is no reason that 3 physical damage dealer should be able to kill a protection monk. That's their job, and they only have to protect one person, which means they don't have to spread out the love.

As I told the team of 3 Wa/Mo's and 1 ele pounding on our lvl 8 Monk in the Ascalon arena: "Play smarter". They pounded on her, complained about her "infinate energy" watched her NOT move out of firestorms, called her a cheater, and on and on... she even anouned "I like firestorms".

Thing they didn't get: when they stopped attacking her, she couldn't heal anymore.... She ressed us, we took out one guy, they pounded on the rest of us, she ran out of energy we died. lather, rinse repeat until all of them had used up thier res signets. and we killed them. Were we great? no. Her build meant that she was bassically a tank, and she couldn't deal damage, nor heal all that much (except when she was getting pounded). That's it. The fact that the other team didn't think to try something besides "pound pound pound" is what threw me for a loop.

So true. I play a Blessed Signet monk - damn near unkillable until hit with: Nature's Renewal/ Rend/ Lingering/ Inspired Enchant... or just shutdown by a mesmer who know's what's going on, and that Conjure Phantasm isn't an "OMG 1337 H4x0|2!" skill. The 105 monk falls to all the same spells/skills.

Its a real problem with this game. Some aspects of guildwars are easiy to counter and certain remote builds(and these are numerous) are very difficult to defend against. Warriors are so severely gimped in PVP, as every class can access tons of very formidable anti-warrior counters, or just run the hell away.

In order for a warrior to even do any damage he needs to somehow keep his opponent from running, even with hamstring or the like its very difficult to do damage to someone who is 100% trying to avoid it. And a warriors DPS is nothing special unhindered, put into perspective with all the conditions ,stances, and running, a warrior isnt even a serious threat. I think its shameful for no cast dots, and hexes, which cannot fail,miss,be dodged etc...can compete with a warriors DPS unhindered.

Enchantments are not as easy to remove as many people claim. In a 4 v 4 random game its extremely difficult to counter a "certain" build. Natures Renewal is good, but most of the time you are carrying around a useless skill as alot of teams are not that enchantment intensive, or you might have a smiter on your own team that seriously gets screwed when you drop it. Using the single enchantment stippers is an exercise in futility as enchantments can be recast 10 times faster than they are stripped.

In short a build or class is unbalanced, when alone it requires the effort of many individuals working in cohesion to effectvely counter. And althougth the invinci-monks one of the worst, even a normal monk sometimes are way to powerful for what they bring to the team.

Yes...it's so hard to find counters to "invincible" monks.

I mean, if you don't have Bleeding, Conjure Phantasm, Poison, Rend Enchantments, Drain Enchantments, Shatter Enchantment, Lingering Curse, Chilblains, Distracting Blow, Savage Slash, Guilt, Power Leak, Migraine, Inspired Enchantment, Nature's Renewal, Debilitating Shot, Immolate, Incendiary Bonds, Mark of Rodgort, or Mind Burn (to name a few), then you're screwed! I mean, come on, wtf! It's so broken.

It's so stupid, it's like they're advising you to play with a balanced team! Oh God...it's just too hard!

Just because you are losing dosnt mean they need to be nerfed.
Warriors can farm solo.
What if a ranger complains that your armor is to high cause they cant tank you.

This game is about strategy, USE IT

can the monk kill the w/mo?

If the w/mo cant heal...

and, if I was given a bunch of keys, and asked to unlock a door, I wouldn't call the FBI to come in to smash the door open if the only key I tried didn't work.

the invi monk is completely wrong named because its NOT!

so, how many w/mo's does it take to kill one invi monk?

The same amount that it takes to screw in a lightbulb.

Or adapt and switch secondary classes.

Whichever is harder for them.

Naah, Linkie...It's not really that...


Consider this.

Here is a guy that joins the PvP crowd with what he thinks is a good build and he encounters things that are new and strange to him, and Yes he doesnt't belong to a TEAM BUILD GUILD!

So all he want's is to drop in with his charachter and play some PvP, and yes he is getting owned. Big Time and he should NOT be bashed, because.....

The state of PvP with the Cookie Cutter flavors, the NON interesting and NON challenging maps gives the CASUAL Player absolutely no satisfaction in Pugs. Now, that is a problem.

What problem ?

The casual players transgression from PvE to the utterly unbalanced and non intersting world of cookiecutter, spammers, and exploits of PvP. Arenanets PvP is bad, really bad...It just plainly doesn't cut it.... I will not go on a rant of what needs to be changed etc...


Applaus to thread starter !!

But I will say this to the Thread Starter. Your voice and opinions is as good as anybodies, and your frustrations that might seem simple to us more experienced players are very very valid.


Shame on those that flame you.

The input you have gotten in this thread though is completly worthless. Don't expect much on GWGURU lately. It is sad but true, the environment is going down the drain....Most people answering nowadays on threads are "know it alls" and flamers...telling you how stupid you are...It's sad.

Future and Past of W/Mo.
4 months ago W/Mo owned in the Tombs...too bad you weren't there then. KOR had some nice builds with 4 W/Mo dishing out a whole lotta love!

I think there is a place for a W/Mo in PvP. Just play some more and learn as you go along. If there is another W/Mo on your team , team up with him, do some "bonding", learn from each other. Try cooperate well. Back in February I player a W/Mo and I added a healing skill to my inventory and Watch Yourself. When my buddy W/Mo was in trouble I would give him a little boost just to be friendly or a res (before res signet). Also I used to talk to him and say, "lets get that f**** monk" and that ranger " ****ing pisses me off, lets get him next...

Not the greatest strategy, but hey if you are in a random PUG and it is not a Spammer team or any of the other ones...you might as well have some fun for a few rounds, cause you are gonna loose quick to Gank or Spam or whatever pretty quick.


And for the rest of you, with the valuable input...hmmm(pause) ...have fun!

Ratatass

Shayul: Yes, mesmers and rangers can kill protective monks. Noones said anything else.

The point here isn't that protective monks are overpowered in PvP, but that warriors & monks can not counter them at all. Considering how underpowered in general warriors are, they could really need a "remove enchantment" skill.

Respeccing to W/Me or W/R? Yeah, sure. But in random arenas most people use their PvE character, so respeccing is a hassle.

Balanced team? Yeah, that's a good idea. Why don't you explain to me how to make sure the team is balanced in random arenas?

And by all means feel free to try to kill a 105 monk with bleeding, distracting blow, and savage slash. Good luck.

well, I hadn't played Count-Strike:Source for over 4 months until last night. I popped in and played couple hours lastnight, and guess what, I got owned left and right, up and down, front and behind. I was like 3 (kills) / 12 (deaths) in one map.

Or imagine a new player to CS pops in for a quick round or two after he/she beat half life 2 the game, thinking he's pretty solid because he/she beat the original game, right?

and guess what's gonna happen most likely, he/she gets owned left and right, up and down, front and behind.

Is it the game's fault?

if warriors gets remove enchantment skills, what's the point of having mesmers and rangers professions? (just for the sake of arguement)

it's not the game's fault that somebody's PvE character can't kill every other profession with ease.

make a team before going in so one doesn't get randomly assigned? or join enough random teams and eventually one will be in an uber built team? it's random... it's not the game's fault that there are only 17 people joinning and they are all w/mo's

As a ranger an invinci monk is not easy to take down by any means, spamming Dbil shot and trying to time interrupts on a monk is not easy buisness. You have to pack spirits to really come close to taking on a build like this. And maybe 1 out of 5 matches will be a retarded monk build...so you got that covered IF it ever happens,,,but wait what if a frag mesmer comes along first...or any other of the cookie cutter builds?

Unfortunately there's no "change to necro" skill available.



yes there is

Rend enchant
strip enchant
shatter enchant
drain enchant
inspired enchant
nature renewal
lingering curse
conjure phantasm
poison
bleeding
life syphon
any other DoT
energy drain
energy tap
ether lord
panic
debilitating shot
energy burn
soul barbs
desecrate enchantments
many others...

all counters to that "invincible 105hp monk build".... overpowered?? lol...

Oh God. You might run into an "invinci" Monk in a random arena. Since the arena is, as in nature of its name, random, that means that you have a chance to get 3 other teammates who pack some of the considerable amount of skills that stop an "invinci" Monk. Even if you do lose, the chances that the monk will get shot down later keep on increasing. This is hardly a broken build in PvP.

Well, for one, I had assumed (by your description of the situation), that there was more than one Warrior attacking. So if each Warrior packs skills like those, there is an increased chance the monk will fall to the Warriors (just like if I aggro too many ataxes with my build, I eventually succumb). Oh noes! Warriors don't have a "remove enchantment" skill! Imagine that...a non-caster class without a skill such as that! Man...just thinking about that injustice reminds me of how Mages couldn't wear Plate Armor in D&D, or how a pure Fighter class with no mage secondary couldn't cast Delayed Blast Fireball. I mean, come on! There are so many spellcasters that the Fighter needs to defend himself somehow!

Finally, the Monk. In essence, the Cleric. The one who heals, resurrects, protects, and smites. I don't see how, in any of those job descriptions, the Monk would ever receive a "remove enchantment" skill. The Monk rids the team of the unclean, not of the beneficial. In fact, the closest thing they have is "Contemplation of Purity," which causes them to lose all enchantments in exchange for health gain, hex removal, and condition removal.

Oh, thanks for listing some skills that I didn't, Quebec. I got tired when I was putting my list together. =P


Addition: Unless the other classes are /Mos, they can't heal nearly as well as a Monk. Does that mean that each class should get more powerful healing abilities? Oh yeah, and Necros can tear "invinci" Monks apart. You forgot to add that class.

That's the main problem IMO. W/Mo's are so plenty, you're almost guaranteed of getting one in your group. That's why some people bring those "invincible" monks, because you know you're going to be up against lots of warriors. And warriors are exactly the kind of opponent you want to have as such a monk.

If people starting the game would think further than "oh warrior has to be the Ub3r damage dealer" and "monk can heal so as a w/mo I'm going to be TEH GOD" we would have more diversity and less complaints.

Just one last reply:
1) In PvE W/Mo's and Mo/W's and E/Mo's are extremely common because monks have healing, rez, and are the best tanks in PvE, elementalists have top firepower and energy, and warriors have sprint and bonettis defence. It is not hard to get in a random team of four with just those types of players. People don't respec to mesmer or ranger to play a couple of rounds of random arena.
2) Three lvl 20 W/Mo's were completely unable to kill one defensive monk. Really.
3) OK, monks shouldn't have enchant breaking, I agree. So give it to warriors. Make it a sword or axe skill, they're way underpowered anyway.

Careful. You're stating the obvious. They may catch on.

2) You persist in being surprised by this for some reason. Ever fought a PvE Mursaat Monk boss with a full team without a Mesmer or interrupter?

3) Warriors _have_ ways to shut down enchantments -- just not enchantments that have already been cast.

Sword: Savage Slash interrupts.
Axe: Disrupting Chop interrupts.
Hammer: Dwarven Battle Stance (Elite) interrupts.
General: Distracting Blow interrupts. Skull Crack (Elite) causes Dazed, which makes interrupts easy.

Then figure in the Warrior's assorted knockdown attacks; a Monk can't cast many heals from flat on his back.

Didn't bring any of those skills? Bad luck or bad planning. Enjoy the trip back to the Competition Arenas lobby.

#1) Stop playing in Lion's Arch Random Arena's -- problem solved.

As most people have said, you will get at least 1 w/mo in every LA match, I bring my W/N sometimes just to kill all the W/Mo and teach them it doesn't pay to be cookie cutter

LA's Arena's are not any true measure of skill, matter of fact, anyone who spends hours upon hours there are just going to become lame pvpers who get destroyed in GvG and HoH, since there is no real strategy, or skill and everyone only depends on themselves.

I love when these incinvi monks get 10 wins and go to draknor's forge 4v4 with orginized teams...

Oh I AM GONNA BE INVINCI....oh crap...rend...defile flesh... Dismember... dead. --- Next?


#2) Monks aren't the only offenders, I've even seen a W/Mo do this, I was testing a new build in the Arena before bringing it to GvG, after I made sure the build worked, I decided to stick around with my team... next match we had a fight vs a w/mo who did much the same thing, I didn't bring a Natures renewal or anything because other parts of my team (in the GvG) were supposed to, I wanted to see how all the skills jived together...

Well a W/Mo, a R/N, a N/Me, and a Mo/W were all unable to kill this one warrior, nobody brought enough Degen, and nobody brought a disenchanting spell...

So W/Mo should be nerfed too?

#3 Well as it stands now 3 classes don't have any enchant breaking,

Again lets go over the list of classes that can do enchants/hex/conditions

Warriors
No Conditions, Hexes, or Enchants

Elementalists
No Conditions, Hexes, or Enchants

Monks
All Conditions and All Hexes (smite hex)

Necromancers
All Conditions (plague touch) and Enchants (lingering, rend,strip)

Memsers
All Hexes and Enchants

Rangers
only 3 conditons( Antidote signet) and Enchants/hexes in Natures renewal useful, but not spamable with only one ranger, unless using oathshot


So since warriors can't do anything, they should get Enchantment removal? yeah... Elementalists should too!

IF they gave warriors an enchant removal skill, it would need to be an elite to be balanced, and I don't know too many who'd give up their elite for that.

Not that I believe warriors should be given that option...

What would be nice is an attack that ignores the effects of all enchants on your target and all conditions, hexes, and Enchantments on you, give it a long cooldown, tie it to strength, and make it chew up all adrenaline.