Positive threads.....is it possible?

I see your point, Sanji, but my point was that shouldn't those "suggestions" (which is putting it kindly for most of them) be posted in the Sanitarium which is specifically designed for game suggestions? Many of these criticisms should be posted as suggestions, but people can't get beyond their own need to rant constantly about the same stuff over and over until their needs are met immediately (gee, kind of like my two year old when I think about it). My point is this: If you have a criticism of the game, post a game suggestion in the Sanitarium and leave the rest of boards free for discussion. I wish people could post a criticism on this board without it being angry, hostile and much like a temper tantrum, but it just doesn't seem like that is ever going to happen.

just to set the record straight that post had no demand , request for or even a suggestion that the thread be closed.

the reference to *thread lock* was from the moderators next post and not mine

thank you for checking

Well the thing is if you are happy with the game, you keep playing it. If you notice something wrong you create a thread and complain and/or ask other people about it. If I were to create a thread about how great it is that A.Net allowed us to dye our armors, then I might get two other people who agree and that's it. Nothing comes out of it. If I post a thread about some problem in the game, I may get feedback and there is a good chance that A.Net will find out about the problem and fix it later. Constructive things come out of "negative" threads. However, even though a thread is "complaining" it should be made professional, and not have a whining tone to it. It should outline the problem clearly and explaining why you think it's a problem and maybe even suggest a solution and ask others for their feed back.

Well, realize that these people are talking about something that angers and frustrates them and may not realize how much of their attitude leaks into writting.

Also realize that this is made worse by those who disdain such things read and thus interpret negative posts as even more offensive than the original poster had intended. What may seem like angry and hostile to you might just be someone who just signed off frustrated about an experience he had with the need to vent. The problem is that he never leaves a state of frustration as venting threads tend to get people who egg the original poster on (Whether they are crudely telling him to shut up or sharing their own experiences) and it continues to escalate until it fizzles out or gets locked.

In the end, it becomes a beast that can't be fed thanks to the limitations of human communication, especially in a written format.

Sure, and sometimes you have someone who isn't criticizing anything in the game and just posts a fact supported comment - and that reasonable comment burts into a Riot of flames courtesy of the people on this forum.

Don't be a hypocrite and ask for people to post in a relaxed fashion when you are killing their threads when they do.

I'm tired of the GuildHall bashing here too. Right now it has more constructive active discussions going on then here, and moderators delete spam instead of the entire thread.

Good Game.

Well, I guess I'm speaking mostly of the posts with multiple exclamation points, all caps, F-words (or GO RED ENGINES, lol), general swearing, and calling the devs and each other names as if they were on a school-yard playground...this to me is communicating hostility. It was my hope that most of the people on the board knew reasonably well how to communicate their feelings without sounding like children having fits and tantrums.

I've been visiting message boards for a very long time, and I think I can reasonably tell when someone is having a silly fit, and when someone is communicating their feelings in a reasonable manner.

And I agree, varyag, that many times it's not the OP who has started it, but the responses to the OP create a nasty digression into flaming, name calling and whatever. But my point was regarding the general attitude of the threads themselves (whether the original post, or the responses) and why it always seems to deteriorate instead of just being a normal discussion, and the negativity is prevalent on both TGH and this board.

I have to be honest, I don't intend to "bash" TGH, I've never left a board in my life because of being offended. It's very severe over there, and while they do have some constructive threads, last time I visited the constructive threads were severely drowned out by the mean spritited, hostile, and tantrum threads...maybe it's changed recently, though...

Except that recently TGH moderators started more actively deleting spam and banning the forum trolls. You can constantly see one person or another with a greyed out name and a "banned" subtitle.

Also when moderators delete or close anything they always leave a comment and a warning. Since then that forum has quite a healthy appearance compared to this one where spammers are in total control over freedom of speech.

You know, Varyag, it is a tough and rather thankless job being a moderator. When we delete posts, we are reviled. When we don't delete posts, we're reviled. When we close threads, we're bombarded with hateful PMs. When we don't close threads, we're bombarded with hateful PMs. Sorry to say but there's no pleasing everyone. We're only human and doing the best we can with a HUGE number of posts and members and a very limited staff. Believe it or not, most of us work fulltime jobs and do this for.....fun(?). *sighs*

Right.on.the.money.

This may not go over well, but that is nothing new: I only see YOU doing anything. Sorry, but I do. The other threads lock always, and I mean ALWAYS, seem to happen when they read something they don't like (not neccessarily degenerated posts either). You, however, seem to at least read them all the way through, and judge accordingly. I have never questioned your judgement in these matters.

I think this game is great, and although a small minority of people keep bitching and whining on a forum (petitions amuse me to no god damn end), the overall community of players that actually care about the game will whether these storms of idiocy and carry on into the next phase.

Sorrow's Furnace never sounded better to me

When you contribute to a spammed-out thread by an extra spam comment, you are reviled.
By the way Aniewiel, your post that I just quoted is SPAM because it does not contribute to the topic.

Comprehend?

Positive threads... is it possible?
Not when spam is allowed to dominate the forums. Not when people don't even comprehend what it means to be 'constructive and on topic'.
Not when positive threads get closed instead of being cleaned.

Here are my constructive suggestion: Start banning the obsessive compulsive spammers on this forum. Ban them for a day, then a week or a month on next offense. Spamming will die out so fast you'd start missing it. ^^

With all due respect sir, you "calling out" people for their "off topic" contributions is neither productive or positive. Further, it is completely off topic in relation to the subject of this thread. Take your own advice and stick to the subject at hand. Aniewiel works hard and deals with a lot of junk on these forums. Let the mods do their job and don't try to tell them how to do it please.

*On topic* There are plenty of positive things to say about the game. But discussing them really doesn't advance anything. They already work. They already are accepted. It's the things that don't work that need ideas, attention, and discussion. That's why most threads may appear negative in nature.

The topic, in case anyone forgot. This should be what is commented upon. The mod staff is not the issue nor are "suggestions" for how the forums should be run.

On my watch, positive threads are very welcome. I see enough rotten crappy things IRL on a moment to moment basis (I teach at an inner city school) so it's rather refreshing to come here and find a few. It is always dismaying to see most of them degenerate into "fanboy flame fests". I can't tell you how overused I think that comment is in the GW community at large, not just here on these forums. Liking the game doesn't automatically imply that one doesn't see the need and necessity for improvement.

At any rate, I know that a lot of members like to see positive threads. But, like the real world around us, people like that are usually...quieter.

On the converse side, I also like to see a heated debate on issues. Argument? NO. Debate? Yes. Unfortunately, a lot of threads that are very interesting and entertaining debates get derailed by angry and profane posts on all sides of any given issue. It's too bad, really.

Damn truth... damn truth. I've never had a problem with Aniewiel's moderating--it's fair most of the time. I've seen some others go on locking sprees simply because a question in the QA forum has been answered months ago and they didn't check that far back.

As far as the OP. I've said this before but in order to have a discussion you need to bring up a point of contention and have both sides argue on it. That's the nature of it all.

Debate and logical discourse are two things that are in short supply in our society these days. I can only speak for the US as that is where I live, but I fear that we are beginning to immitate our leaders. Why debate something logically when you can simply browbeat your opponent, call them lots of names, and insult everything they stand for? That is what passes for political discourse in America right now... the art of debate has been lost. And in it's place we have nothing but mudslinging

My apologies if that comment isn't as close to the topic as some might prefer. As someone who teaches about government for a living, such trends are very distressing to me personally.

Well said.

I agree 100%. That's what I see as the major problem -- people don't know how to debate without turning to petty insults and twisting the meaning of what others say.

The main problem is people are not constructive. I guess it is human nature that people are destructive.

For example, instead of proving points with valid arguments, attacking the people with opposite views. Like arcos says, there is less argument on what makes the idea wrong or right than the "mudslinging that goes around". In the forums, it is often illustrated in people saying they "own", other people are "n00bs", or saying someone is inexperienced or stupid.

A perfect example is the skill rebalancing issue. Some people might flame away at others views, but others may supply valid reasons why they think it shoudl remain the way it is or have something changed.

no, its impossible.

Hello

To varyag in particular, before one starts complaining about moderation, and how the moderator in question should've "cleaned" it instead of closing it, one should also realize that we're unpaid volunteers. Unpaid. Free time. Patrolling for spam/flames/trolling.

Is it honestly that hard to understand closing a thread that has 18/22 negative responses is much faster than spending an hour deleting those 18 posts. We have over 29k members in these forums. Forgive me if I don't take a huge chunk out of my time meticulously pruning and editing choice words and sections of a very volatile thread instead of closing the trouble causing factor in the first place.

In addition, if you have disputes about moderation, please PM the moderator in question, and if you disagree with what they have to say, feel free to PM other moderators and admins, also. Dragging out your complaints against the administration multiple times in public does nothing to help your cause, and merely takes up more of our time, also. So, enough. I won't warn you again.

To be back on topic.. Sure, negative subjects abound, but positive threads also exist -- threads like the frog thread in particular. Despite being a pain to patrol, "complaint" threads, if worded in a constructive manner, tell me that people still care enough about Guild Wars to fight for the game that they love. I'm more afraid of people leaving and giving up on the game that they've dreamed of playing. Sure, it's a bit strange, but as long as people yell for changes, I know that they still care enough to stay and retain the original passion for Guild Wars that many many of us experienced, and still experience, since beta.

From my experiences at Eq2 and WoW forums, I must say, forums are just generally full of whining and flaming, especially in "general discussion"

However, one thing I'm missing here at GWGuru are more informative posts in the strategy and build sections. Particularly by the experienced players.

I think it's because everyone likes being secretive about their stuff, but I'm surprised there arent more serious whole-build posts (Like Yukito's W/N posts, or the fragility build posts), especially for entire party builds, and associated strategies. I'm talking about stuff like the excellent articles and "Class basics" stickies, only those things seem to all be from betas, and are now somewhat out of date.

Those are the only "positive" threads I'm looking for.
Threads that go "OMG! I just bought this game and its really good! I like it a lot! Dancing is cool!" are pretty pointless and are even less interesting than complaining threads, so I dont think they're that important.

Oh. and the "Terrorize Arenas with iQ" ... I'd love to hear people who were there, or the iQ members, post about what advice they were giving, what builds they were running, what things they discussed when they were planning their build, and how they performed against what teams, etc.

Those are the sorts of positive posts I'd be interested in.

What about just profane? I'm not all about angry, never in my time on these forums have I been angry! C'mon though...I mean, all words are useful at one point or another...right? Profanity? Pfft...(ok I'll shutup).

Positive threads are like PieXags. They're good in nature, incredibly heart warming, inhumanly brilliant, and insanely sexy. Also like PieXags...they're incredibly rare. How many PieXags have you seen before? One? Yeah that sounds about right.