The guild I partied with into the HoH after the great nerf was good. We held HoH 6 times in a row. Although it is the new strategy that follows that makes me sick.
Previously with ranger builds and such you would rush to the alter and hold it for 10 minutes. Now it is a curse to hold the alter. You simple let you hero die and pray that another group captures, Then at 2:00 you rush in and wipe out the other heros and let yours cap, once he caps you've won. Which wastes the first 8 minutes of sitting around scratching your ass. Plus the "ONLY" builds that make it to HoH is the smiters. So you need your two primary monks to keep a constant healing seed on the hero, unfortunatly with the easy enchantment removal thats impossible, since you will have two teams going after your one hero. thats a 16 on one, with merely 3 to keep that one alive.
PvP has lost its appeal for me, and so has PvE. Most of the worth running skills have degenerated into the next set of worth running skills. The deversity in PvP is now who can tweak the next smite build into perfection. But yet HoH is still a random win.
The new HoH after the patch.
beleg curudin
wolfy3455
Basically you're angry that you have to fight the other teams now, rather than just keeping you're team alive?
Spartan2
No, he is mad that the metagame is deteriorating into predictabitility. He is sad that a game with so many combination turns into a literal Paper, Rock, Scissors match, and whenever one of these gets nerfed, everyone drops down to the next best tier and runs that without thinking of a new strategy.
Mysterial
I do agree on the point that HoH is basically a two minute match with eight minutes of staring each other down. The problem is simply that the 10% morale boost is far too weak to match against two teams beating you down in the limited space so they're rewarded for waiting until you can't automatically resurrect to attack.
Easy fix: For this gametype only, make morale boost go higher than 10%.
Somewhat harder fix: Make it play like real KotH instead of the fake last man standing format we have now.
Having played in matches where the teams played the way it was intended, fighting from start to finish, I can see the potential for fun in the gametype. Unfortunately, the teams have no incentive to play it that way.
Easy fix: For this gametype only, make morale boost go higher than 10%.
Somewhat harder fix: Make it play like real KotH instead of the fake last man standing format we have now.
Having played in matches where the teams played the way it was intended, fighting from start to finish, I can see the potential for fun in the gametype. Unfortunately, the teams have no incentive to play it that way.
White Designs
Smiting is the only team to make the Hall? That isn't true at all. Smiting is a very counterable and beatable build, its nothing like the Spirit Spam builds, which were indeed overpowered, so needed to be nerfed.
IlikeGW
Sometimes I'm not sure this game is ever going to escape "exploit of the month" type play in pvp. Think about it, people have been playing like that since day 1 thanks to the greed the unlock system causes... all people care about is ganking and the cheap uber win now.
Sentao Nugra
they key to beat smiters:
8 monk/mesmers
must be able to heal self for a while, until teammate helps
must have backfire and fast dom recharge weapon
put backfire on the everyone, and heal away while keeping backfire up
8 monk/mesmers
must be able to heal self for a while, until teammate helps
must have backfire and fast dom recharge weapon
put backfire on the everyone, and heal away while keeping backfire up
Aracos79
I think the key to the popularity of smiting builds is their ease of use. Yes they have counters. Yes they are more easily countered than the NR/spirit spam builds that used to dominate. But a smite build will roll over an unprepared or unorganized team... and it is fairly easy to learn and use. It's simply the new "lowest common denominator".
Sandman Uk
I would think all the devs were watching every part of the HOH PVPX to see how it was panning out.
And I would say within the next few days we will see more tweaks to Skills to even out the PVP side.
And I would say within the next few days we will see more tweaks to Skills to even out the PVP side.
Arcador
Yes we were wiped several times by smiters. But there is a simple counter as there is for every build so far. If you see a warrior running towards you alone - pin him down or so, slow him and etc. - it will be easy avoiding him for several seconds (if the team know how to play). Some players can take 1 slot (acording classes) for remove enchantments (baltaraz's and so) while other classes subdue their monks (interupting and stuff). Smite users usually are caster types - and there are quite a lot anticaster stuff.
I don't talk about Pugs. If you get random group - try to talk eachother, if cannot - then it is no wonder smite kicks ass. It can deal 123123 dmg per sec.
I don't know why people decided that this is the time for "smite builds". I mean smite spells are one of the most powerfull spells there is in this game since day 1 - I've been smiting the hell out of my enemies in the arenas for ages. It has no resistance versus it so that is making it a lot powerfull. But is is a enchantment - so it can be removed. With NR it was countered "in the fray" - you cast NR and smite build drops dead, now it is other story.
Smite build is good of course, but not godlike. As it was with the warrior builds, as it was with the ele spiker teams and so on. Game evolves - evolve with it.
P.s. of course there will be more tweaks of skills in the near days - that was the whole PvP X idea.
I don't talk about Pugs. If you get random group - try to talk eachother, if cannot - then it is no wonder smite kicks ass. It can deal 123123 dmg per sec.
I don't know why people decided that this is the time for "smite builds". I mean smite spells are one of the most powerfull spells there is in this game since day 1 - I've been smiting the hell out of my enemies in the arenas for ages. It has no resistance versus it so that is making it a lot powerfull. But is is a enchantment - so it can be removed. With NR it was countered "in the fray" - you cast NR and smite build drops dead, now it is other story.
Smite build is good of course, but not godlike. As it was with the warrior builds, as it was with the ele spiker teams and so on. Game evolves - evolve with it.
P.s. of course there will be more tweaks of skills in the near days - that was the whole PvP X idea.
Sagius Truthbarron
Well. Make a great counter build that completely dominates all smiting groups = people stop smiting so much.
PieXags
HoH is just plain STUPID the way they have it set up. Who CARES about holding some stupid altar with a retarded ghost in the middle of it? It's just...stupid. I mean honestly I don't think the Gods really give a shit about a ghost who's not even worthy of the place unless he stands on an altar.
The HoH should be changed to one form of play, last group standing wins. It should be a battle to the death. The team who is either last standing (or has had the most kills) in the amount of time wins. Honestly, the whole "hold the altar" thing is ridiculous and shouldn't be. Period.
The Gods will know a team's worthy of their attention if they actually manage to beat the other teams, and I guarantee you if it was just a good 'ol fashion war for the hall, there'd be action and fighting the whole time...not just the last 2 minutes.
The HoH should be changed to one form of play, last group standing wins. It should be a battle to the death. The team who is either last standing (or has had the most kills) in the amount of time wins. Honestly, the whole "hold the altar" thing is ridiculous and shouldn't be. Period.
The Gods will know a team's worthy of their attention if they actually manage to beat the other teams, and I guarantee you if it was just a good 'ol fashion war for the hall, there'd be action and fighting the whole time...not just the last 2 minutes.
KonohaFlash
jeff strain, a dev, was at LA int 1 a few minutes ago. he said that they will be studying the data collected over the weekend and reading forums and will make enhancements on the skills if need be.
so enjoy/abuse the smiting builds while it's here, im pretty sure they'll do something about it
so enjoy/abuse the smiting builds while it's here, im pretty sure they'll do something about it
Red Sonya
[The HoH should be changed to one form of play, last group standing wins. It should be a battle to the death. The team who is either last standing (or has had the most kills) in the amount of time wins. Honestly, the whole "hold the altar" thing is ridiculous and shouldn't be. Period.]
Wow Pie I don't usually agree with anything you say, hehe, but, here I have to /sign agree with this. I don't care for altar battles or relic runs either myself. I like the slaughter not the standing around waiting for 2 minutes until the time runs out to rush in and hopefully take over the altar.
Something I would add is to make the tournament more like regular tournaments, bring it down from a sweet 16 to the final four to the ultimate two. These 3 ways are rediculous. In most all cases in a 3 way he who attacks first usually loses and the one that is attacked loses as well in most cases. The one who sits back and waits them out wins the majority of the time. Even out the dang tournament setups. Need 8 teams starting out, then four teams then two teams and either battle to last man standing or timed battle. I lean more towards "timed battles" now just because of runners (I still hate them especially the famed rangers who do it the most often). Of course in a 8x8 it's not much of an issue, a running ranger will never survive just annoy.
Wow Pie I don't usually agree with anything you say, hehe, but, here I have to /sign agree with this. I don't care for altar battles or relic runs either myself. I like the slaughter not the standing around waiting for 2 minutes until the time runs out to rush in and hopefully take over the altar.
Something I would add is to make the tournament more like regular tournaments, bring it down from a sweet 16 to the final four to the ultimate two. These 3 ways are rediculous. In most all cases in a 3 way he who attacks first usually loses and the one that is attacked loses as well in most cases. The one who sits back and waits them out wins the majority of the time. Even out the dang tournament setups. Need 8 teams starting out, then four teams then two teams and either battle to last man standing or timed battle. I lean more towards "timed battles" now just because of runners (I still hate them especially the famed rangers who do it the most often). Of course in a 8x8 it's not much of an issue, a running ranger will never survive just annoy.
Eternal Equinox
Yeah, smiting does tend to keep my guild back. Hell, we even fought House Redfalls in a GvG match and got destroyed. Do i really have to say by what? Smiting isn't completely invincible, my guild just doesn't want to resort to it to get anywhere. Smiting will get defeated soon enough though.
Red Sonya
Yes I agree it's much easier to beat smite than it was spirit spamming that wasn't a tactic it was an annoyance. Smiting is a skill. 
Ristaron
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spartan2
No, he is mad that the metagame is deteriorating into predictabitility. He is sad that a game with so many combination turns into a literal Paper, Rock, Scissors match, and whenever one of these gets nerfed, everyone drops down to the next best tier and runs that without thinking of a new strategy.
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Quoted for 110% truth
Freyas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eternal Equinox
Yeah, smiting does tend to keep my guild back. Hell, we even fought House Redfalls in a GvG match and got destroyed. Do i really have to say by what? Smiting isn't completely invincible, my guild just doesn't want to resort to it to get anywhere. Smiting will get defeated soon enough though.
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Smiting E/Mo's are only powerful if you let them sit there and spam spells. There are some nice easy counters that will basically shut down their damage. Enchantment removal can remove their renewals/Zealot's Fire, or Balthazar's Aura. Diversion can take out the spamming capability. My favorite is probably knockdowns- stick a hammer warrior on them who's packing Dwarven Battle Stance or a chain of knockdown skills. As soon as you see them cast renewal, keep them on the ground for the next 10 seconds. When renewal recharges, do it again. Dwarven Battle stance is nice because you can use skills like Irresistable blow to counter Aegis or other evasion skills. Distracting shot, disrupting chop work fairly well too- take out the skills they're spamming, and you neuter them.
Meanwhile, have the group spread out, and use skills like Shielding Hands, Healing Seed, etc to negate any balthazars damage. Most smite teams have basically nothing without their smite damage, so if you counter that, even for just a minute or two, you've won the match.
varyag
Hall of Heroes should be a 10 minute duel between 2 teams.
The first team to wipe out the other team wins.
If counter reachest 10 minutes, the team with most kills wins.
No morale bonuses, no ghostly heroes (they sit at the sidelines beyond reach) no altars or anything else except an arena to fight in.
Problem solved.
Well said.
The first team to wipe out the other team wins.
If counter reachest 10 minutes, the team with most kills wins.
No morale bonuses, no ghostly heroes (they sit at the sidelines beyond reach) no altars or anything else except an arena to fight in.
Problem solved.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spartan2
No, he is mad that the metagame is deteriorating into predictabitility. He is sad that a game with so many combination turns into a literal Paper, Rock, Scissors match, and whenever one of these gets nerfed, everyone drops down to the next best tier and runs that without thinking of a new strategy.
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Mormegil
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Freyas
Odd- I fought House Redfalls who was using a smiting build in the tombs this evening, with a PuG of friends, and flawlessed them.
Smiting E/Mo's are only powerful if you let them sit there and spam spells. There are some nice easy counters that will basically shut down their damage. Enchantment removal can remove their renewals/Zealot's Fire, or Balthazar's Aura. Diversion can take out the spamming capability. My favorite is probably knockdowns- stick a hammer warrior on them who's packing Dwarven Battle Stance or a chain of knockdown skills. As soon as you see them cast renewal, keep them on the ground for the next 10 seconds. When renewal recharges, do it again. Dwarven Battle stance is nice because you can use skills like Irresistable blow to counter Aegis or other evasion skills. Distracting shot, disrupting chop work fairly well too- take out the skills they're spamming, and you neuter them. Meanwhile, have the group spread out, and use skills like Shielding Hands, Healing Seed, etc to negate any balthazars damage. Most smite teams have basically nothing without their smite damage, so if you counter that, even for just a minute or two, you've won the match. |
Soul Shaker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by varyag
Hall of Heroes should be a 10 minute duel between 2 teams.
The first team to wipe out the other team wins. If counter reachest 10 minutes, the team with most kills wins. No morale bonuses, no ghostly heroes (they sit at the sidelines beyond reach) no altars or anything else except an arena to fight in. Problem solved. Well said. |
varyag
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Soul Shaker
Make that a new game type, don't modify the old one.
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Free-for-all and King of the Hill belongs to a different type of competition, which might be a good idea for an alternative.
Perishiko ReLLiK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by varyag
Hall of Heroes should be a 10 minute duel between 2 teams.
The first team to wipe out the other team wins. If counter reachest 10 minutes, the team with most kills wins. No morale bonuses, no ghostly heroes (they sit at the sidelines beyond reach) no altars or anything else except an arena to fight in. Its a Tournament, there is not room ganking or highly defensive maps... Free-for-all and King of the Hill belongs to a different type of competition, which might be a good idea for an alternative. |
Sleet
Try to fight with 3 E/mo smiters -_-;;
MSecorsky
Just make HoH a simple, huge ring arena, with the teams showing up at three points, and if possible make it so the three teams represent each "world", so it's always Europe vs America vs Korea (provided the teams are available).
Then slowly have the walls of the arena close in, forcing everyone closer and closer together...
Then slowly have the walls of the arena close in, forcing everyone closer and closer together...
Yawgmoth Kg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by varyag
Hall of Heroes should be a 10 minute duel between 2 teams.
The first team to wipe out the other team wins. If counter reachest 10 minutes, the team with most kills wins. No morale bonuses, no ghostly heroes (they sit at the sidelines beyond reach) no altars or anything else except an arena to fight in. Problem solved. |
as for the current setup... I had a team composed of 2 warriors 2 mesmers 1 ele and 3 monks... when we went into hoh we'd cap it and then just neutralize the other teams smiters with our mesmers while the monks healed everyone from inside some wards (with the ghost) and our wars actually tried to kill other team's monks... unfortunately when faced up against 2 korean teams that spend 4 minutes talking to each other setting up how they will take us down there is not much u can do... we ALL went down in under 50 seconds and then when we saw that they were interrupting each others ghost and we won again WE JUST LAUGHED
ps: we held hoh 4 times in a row and only lost when a silly mesmer (hate people that use same tricks as me
) came and stopped one of our mesmers which gave time for the other teams smiters to to their job
stumpy
smiting is only as powerful as you let it be. If your staying in a pack ... your not thinking. Know your opponent before you engage ... figure him out with a quick tab to see there team. If you see 2 Warriors and 2 EMo's ... good chance your facing a smiting so spread out and target the appropriate target. Top teams I see play a balanced high damage output build.
Divine Elemental
1 seed can take down a whole smite team.....
healing seed will demolish it stay in a bulk let your monks heal ball
now mesmers are considred as somthing
1 mesmer can shut down 3 emo smiters if played correctly
healing seed will demolish it stay in a bulk let your monks heal ball
now mesmers are considred as somthing
1 mesmer can shut down 3 emo smiters if played correctly
Rusch Vokirk
I'd agree, the smiting build isn't impossible to beat. The biggest thing for me is that silly faux KotH match. I say replace it. Throw in an objective-based seige level or something, a little variety, and plenty action throughout the entire match.
zehly
When I bring my necro into HoH (which I can do more now), I bring lingering curse. With that beautiful spell, I can have my team focus on my target, take him down, and use well of profane.
Yawgmoth Kg
yet another valid strategy... another thing I hope to see more of is damage necros
salja Wachi
smite builds are good but not nearly invincable. not even close. those of you that play them know the weakness. the el/mo it the weakness. kill the el/mo and you win plain and simple.
all you need are 2 KD/AS (1 if he is excellent) , a good necro, a good mesmer, 3 monks and an ele or anyother toon you want. just work together and you will win. take away their damage (the els) and you will flawless them.
easier said than done but more than doable
all you need are 2 KD/AS (1 if he is excellent) , a good necro, a good mesmer, 3 monks and an ele or anyother toon you want. just work together and you will win. take away their damage (the els) and you will flawless them.
easier said than done but more than doable
Divine Elemental
Tombs became offly easy....
most groups use smite
u can counter those or just kill the eles quick
and a axe warrior can outheal a monk
a kd/as war is only good for its kd(interupt)
most groups use smite
u can counter those or just kill the eles quick
and a axe warrior can outheal a monk
a kd/as war is only good for its kd(interupt)
Rook Parcade
Quote:
| all you need are 2 KD/AS (1 if he is excellent) , a good necro, a good mesmer, 3 monks and an ele or anyother toon you want. just work together and you will win. take away their damage (the els) and you will flawless them. |
I don't see anyone actually coming up with a counter, I just see people making their smite build better.
Senketsou
Quote:
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Originally Posted by White Designs
Smiting is the only team to make the Hall? That isn't true at all. Smiting is a very counterable and beatable build, its nothing like the Spirit Spam builds, which were indeed overpowered, so needed to be nerfed.
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You would be surprised at some of the build's smiters have going for them right now.... Its rediculous, granted there is a counter for everything... but one of the few at the moment that actually works is well of profane for necro's which requires you kill one first, and when one person is running through dealing an undeniable 100 damage per second... finding the right person to kill is sometimes difficult.
Everybody got mad because the cookie-cutter "55" solo monk got a minor nerf to it... However they didnt nerf two or three of the skills that make them invincible for a partial time in pvp, making any good smiting team, a very hard team to beat.
Divine Elemental
yep
profane really works well
profane really works well
Rook Parcade
Well of Profane isn't a counter in the same way Fertile Season was a counter. If you ran fertile season, you couldn't spike yourself. You had to do something different.
Nobody has given a really good reason why you shouldn't take smiters along with you as well as your profane/lingering etc etc.. The damage output they have is great, so why not bring them?
(edit, I suspect there is a counter, and I suspect it involves a lot of movement based hexes. But I haven't seen many people running it yet)
Nobody has given a really good reason why you shouldn't take smiters along with you as well as your profane/lingering etc etc.. The damage output they have is great, so why not bring them?
(edit, I suspect there is a counter, and I suspect it involves a lot of movement based hexes. But I haven't seen many people running it yet)
Asplode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sentao Nugra
they key to beat smiters:
8 monk/mesmers must be able to heal self for a while, until teammate helps must have backfire and fast dom recharge weapon put backfire on the everyone, and heal away while keeping backfire up |
Divine Elemental
lol to beat those pesky signet spikers
*COUGH*
primal echoes :rollseyes:
and qz ^^
bam their skills cost 25 energy each and a monks energy can only be up to 51
lol
*COUGH*
primal echoes :rollseyes:
and qz ^^
bam their skills cost 25 energy each and a monks energy can only be up to 51
lol
ElderAtronach
QZ actually helps E/Mo smiters because their ether renewal charges faster. It hurts their monks quite a bit, but that's another story. QZ and primal completely screw over the Mo/* signet smiters though, but our team has never had any sort of problems with those builds anyway.