The Dye Trader Is Cruel
TopGun
I agree, Obsidian. The loot nerfs have definately made a massive impact on the population of casual gamers that are playing. While some people combat with the rebuttal, "Casual gamers can play WoW," well, that really isn't true- a real casual gamer isn't going to pay per month to play a game, because we spend most of our time doing things *other* than gaming. Thus, it becomes very difficult to make progress in a game. Running an /age command, I can see that I play around an hour or less per day, this probably due to the fact that I don't play *every* single day. Chances I do get to play are purely in my spare time, which I'd really prefer to spend with friends. (and ladies!) So GW is probably going to have a very difficult time trying to keep hardcore gamers happy and keeping us casual gamers happy at the same time... I think making mosters drop more loot is a step in the right direction, though.
Sagius Truthbarron
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by id0l
I laughed when I read this. You can't even buy it (via dye trader) at the moment. The economy is going nuts (my opinion). I'm no economist so I'm not going to point fingers and put blame here and there (but I do think Mo/W tank builds should be nerfed, sorry...I didn't spend so many freakin' hours on my warrior to be outdone by a healer).
But yeah, last time I saw it (a few days ago, before I did a 2 hour FoW crafter run) it was about 18K. Then I went to Ascalon to sell some crap to the merch, and noticed there was no black dye left. I heard it went as low as 1K...but just going from 18K to *possibly 1K* to none (which would make sense if it dropped to 1K) available in about 2 hours...is crazy... So the question is, as far as black dye...how the hell (if it's true) did it go from 18K to 1K? So quickly I might add. |
A healer? Have you even any idea how the UW solo build or monks in general work?
Mavrik
last night in droknar there was no black dye available at the dye trader... I didn't take a screen shot but they were all sold completely out. Silver was selling for about 1k and being bought for about 500g. Wish I had seen the black dye when it was for less then 1k. I would have bought a lot of them and then sold them back when the price went back up lol.
Kaylynn Of Ascalon
yeah the prices are up and down. I wanted to sell a black dye for 10k and when i checked the black was going for 11k, then it went down to 9k then up to 16k then back down to 9k and I sold it for 7k. at the time the merchant was buying it from people for 5k+ and selling it for 9k+
VxWolfxV
I noticed that Silver Dye was selling for over 2k at the trader so i took one of my silvers to see what the trader would give me for it and all he offered was 1g...
id0l
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang
Haha!
My main character is a monk - and your statement was the compliment! The monk vs. warrior feud continues. |
But in all honesty, do you really think a healer should be able to out-tank a Warrior? It's ridiculous. I think Conan could beat down a priest.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
Ah. So only the W/mo should be allowed to solo. Ok?
A healer? Have you even any idea how the UW solo build or monks in general work? |
2) Did I say anything about them solo'ing? No.
3) A healer - yes that is what a Monk is SUPPOSED to do. Primarily. Well okay, maybe smiting as well. But please, we all know what monks are really in the game for.
4) I know exactly how it works. We have one of the magical Solo-King Mo/W's in my guild. Believe it or not I choose to use my Mo/W as a pure healer, instead of a "100% farming-UW-god". I have guild members to help, and healing monks aren't very easy to get in a pickup group alot of the times. What you (maybe not you yourself Sagius, I don't know) are doing is taking advantage of an exploit. And it will probably be nerfed, at least I and tons of other players hope it does...so go farm all the ecto you can right now. And sell it to me for 1K each plz, since it's soooooo easy for you to get, and I'm sure you are rich already.
(Note a little bit of sarcasm there)
;P
ducktape
There was no black dye when I went to the trader either, so I wondered how much he would buy one for. He offered 1200 gold. I doubt anyone will sell to the trader any time soon...
I also saw silver dye selling for 4k around lunchtime, which was insane since last weekend it was 1k, and by 11pm it was 10k. Ouch.
I also saw silver dye selling for 4k around lunchtime, which was insane since last weekend it was 1k, and by 11pm it was 10k. Ouch.
id0l
Black dye back in stock today @ 8K when I check @ 6pm.
Prince_Ayreon
I saw it at the trader going for the low-low price of 22k 
I spilt my coke laughing when I saw that!
I spilt my coke laughing when I saw that!
Weezer_Blue
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrotherReins
when i logged on in wpe, it was one of the first things i bought.
see picture: it makes me sad that i can't even customize my characters in my favorite color. it makes no sense that an item dye would be worth more than the item itself due to a flawed game mechanic. i hope they will fix this in the future. |
Sho Kasaki
Yep. Long story short, the dye-traders are completely out of Black Dye and Silver Dye is completely booming. It's the priciest of all the dyes now, but it sells for absolute crap.
2.9k for purchase, only 300 gold to sell? I find something wrong in this, but whatever the case may be, I don't personally care. I haven't gotten a Silver Dye, and I don't really like that particular color, but the fact of the matter is that the prices are outrageously retarded.
I hope an update puts Black Dyes back into the Trader's pouch, and the "Supply and Demand" system has its kinks worked out, because this is utterly rediculous.
2.9k for purchase, only 300 gold to sell? I find something wrong in this, but whatever the case may be, I don't personally care. I haven't gotten a Silver Dye, and I don't really like that particular color, but the fact of the matter is that the prices are outrageously retarded.
I hope an update puts Black Dyes back into the Trader's pouch, and the "Supply and Demand" system has its kinks worked out, because this is utterly rediculous.
Puddin Tame
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iczer
Kill mobs, I had 3 black dye drops lastnight in 6 hours of hacking and slashing.
- Iczer |
Rayea
when you say the dye is gone, can you still sell that shade to the dye merchant?
i had some silver the other day, and she had none (had no idea till i came back here to look if it was a bug that it means she was out of stock lol) but when i tried to sell silver to her, she wouldnt give me a quote o.o
is it like that with any dye she is out of stock with?
i had some silver the other day, and she had none (had no idea till i came back here to look if it was a bug that it means she was out of stock lol) but when i tried to sell silver to her, she wouldnt give me a quote o.o
is it like that with any dye she is out of stock with?
4thVariety
atm Black Dye is out of stock in Europe
8.August Noon.
8.August Noon.
Lost
The price of Red Dye actually passed Silver and is now up to 4k. Even crummy yellow is a platinum. If I didn't already have a stockpile, I might kind of care a little bit! Good thing dyes (except black) are easy to find. I'd rather kill a ton of mobs than pay that nonsense.
DrSLUGFly
holy moley!!!!! 1k for yellow and 4 for red? Red and silver are the most common drops! That puts me at 50 plat in red alone, 14 plat in yellow!!! wow
lol, I started dye collecting cuz it was fun, now I'm happy I did, I know I have to have at least 300 plat in dyes if these prices are accurate
lol, I started dye collecting cuz it was fun, now I'm happy I did, I know I have to have at least 300 plat in dyes if these prices are accurate
Ol Dirty Scott
as of 6:25 AM EST:
even the material trader is buggin!
even the material trader is buggin!
id0l
Just do what I was doing. Go to Ascalon d1/d2 and LA d1/d2 and start spamming that the dye traders are bugged and that they will give you a whole hell of a lot more than they really offer...
Got alot of pissed of people; I responded with "Thanks for contributing to the good of the economy"...one person actually said thanks!
Eh, maybe it will help a little.
Got alot of pissed of people; I responded with "Thanks for contributing to the good of the economy"...one person actually said thanks!
Eh, maybe it will help a little.
Ashley Twig
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 4thVariety
atm Black Dye is out of stock in Europe
8.August Noon. |
My guess is, that the human dye trader did it to themselves this time .NPCs are out of stock.
A lot of other human players keep that little black dye that they have to themselves.
And those who want to buy just lost interest because the price is way to high. Even if you half the price the NPC trader demands.
Circulation of black dye got almost to a full stop.
Why?
Greed!
Silmor
Greed? Getting less than 1 platinum for a vial of black dye while it is sold back to players for over ten times that is enough of a discrepancy to turn even the most communist players to hoarding. I wouldn't call that greed anymore, it's simple sensibility at this point.
If you absolutely must sell it, bypassing the trader by selling directly to other players makes so much more sense than settling for pocket change from the trader, so it still wouldn't end up in the 'supply' part of the supply and demand equation, for as far as it applies - if demand is so high, the trader should be much more eager to restock his supply, hence should offer competitive values for a hot commodity like black dye.
I'm concerned these high prices will drive people to alternate means of income (think buying gold from eBay-bots) because the only thing they care about is the looks of their character, and have no chance to afford it by regular means. Even though nobody is selling their dye to the merchant anymore, somebody must still be buying, because the price has been rising long after it reached a ridiculous point.
If you absolutely must sell it, bypassing the trader by selling directly to other players makes so much more sense than settling for pocket change from the trader, so it still wouldn't end up in the 'supply' part of the supply and demand equation, for as far as it applies - if demand is so high, the trader should be much more eager to restock his supply, hence should offer competitive values for a hot commodity like black dye.
I'm concerned these high prices will drive people to alternate means of income (think buying gold from eBay-bots) because the only thing they care about is the looks of their character, and have no chance to afford it by regular means. Even though nobody is selling their dye to the merchant anymore, somebody must still be buying, because the price has been rising long after it reached a ridiculous point.
Ashley Twig
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
I'm concerned these high prices will drive people to alternate means of income (think buying gold from eBay-bots) because the only thing they care about is the looks of their character,
|
Think of the green mesmer armor. Yuck. Everybody runs around in green, dark blue if you get roug's attire.
But I never bought dye for more than 500g.
Lucky me I found 2 black dyes so far.
And about the gold on eBay: Isn't that what aNet wants?
As long as there's a large industry for selling in-game items for off-game money (real money) GW will have lot's of players.
If there was an efficient means to put a stop to that, player numbers would drop.
Dropping player numbers are, sooner or later, the death to any online-game.
And a dead online-game doesn't generate profits.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
Even though nobody is selling their dye to the merchant anymore, somebody must still be buying, because the price has been rising long after it reached a ridiculous point.
|
GW probably has a counter that grows each time a player clicks on "request quote" on any item.
The higher that counter, without an acuall buy/sell process, the higher the price might become.
Silmor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
I care about the looks of my character too.
Think of the green mesmer armor. Yuck. Everybody runs around in green, dark blue if you get roug's attire. But I never bought dye for more than 500g. Lucky me I found 2 black dyes so far. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
And about the gold on eBay: Isn't that what aNet wants?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
I think it's more the want-to-buy demand than the actual buying, that keeps prices up.
GW probably has a counter that grows each time a player clicks on "request quote" on any item. The higher that counter, without an acuall buy/sell process, the higher the price might become. |
There might be other factors at play, such as delayed inflation (resulting in high peaks every time a dye becomes affordable since there will be a sudden burst of purchases) or supply decay (which, as long as people don't sell their dye to the trader, would continually raise the price - and as such doesn't sound too plausible either), but it seems far more logical that the reasons for the black dye prices are the large commission percentage (causing a huge gap between buying and selling price, discouraging player-aided restocking and encouraging hoarding) and the influx of lots of gold from the now-popular UW farmers, who can still afford the high prices.
Lorelei
I read the first post of this thread again and it is SOOO funny now
trelloskilos
And earlier on today....
Silver dye. On sale for 5540g at the dye trader. Buying price? 1g
But I can't say I'm not surprised or relieved to some degree. Dyes are being treated like a commodity, and not like a customization accessory.
To my mind, there are two types of trader selling dyes. One is the casual trader who has stumbled on the dye from a drop while questing. It's a nice thing to have, but he'll sell it at a sensible price. Second is the commodity broker, who is constantly at LA, buying low, selling high, and whose storage box is filled with loads of every colour they can get hold of.
So, now that the price of dye has gone tits-up, how has this affected both types of gamer? Well, the casual trader is still going to sell at whatever price seems suitable. The only problem is that now, there is no "suitable" price. All that's going to happen is that the dye will sit in the storage, and probably get used, or given away to a mate or kept there until dye prices find equilibrium.
The commodity trader must be freaking out at this very moment. While his vast collection of dyes now has a lovely high sell value, he knows that if he can't sell them (and it's not likely that at those prices, anyone will buy), all that effort will have damaged him severely. There is still an influx of dyes from newbs coming over from pre-sear Ascalon, where dye drops are marginally more frequent, but they're not stupid! Another thing is that older gamers who might consider paying 500-700 for silver dye a week ago certainly wouldn't touch Silver dye at 5k+ at the moment.
The bottom line on Dye? Well, personally, I either use them or lose them. It may be fun to play the finances on GW to some people, but I'd sooner be out there killing monsters, doing quests etc.
Silver dye. On sale for 5540g at the dye trader. Buying price? 1g
But I can't say I'm not surprised or relieved to some degree. Dyes are being treated like a commodity, and not like a customization accessory.
To my mind, there are two types of trader selling dyes. One is the casual trader who has stumbled on the dye from a drop while questing. It's a nice thing to have, but he'll sell it at a sensible price. Second is the commodity broker, who is constantly at LA, buying low, selling high, and whose storage box is filled with loads of every colour they can get hold of.
So, now that the price of dye has gone tits-up, how has this affected both types of gamer? Well, the casual trader is still going to sell at whatever price seems suitable. The only problem is that now, there is no "suitable" price. All that's going to happen is that the dye will sit in the storage, and probably get used, or given away to a mate or kept there until dye prices find equilibrium.
The commodity trader must be freaking out at this very moment. While his vast collection of dyes now has a lovely high sell value, he knows that if he can't sell them (and it's not likely that at those prices, anyone will buy), all that effort will have damaged him severely. There is still an influx of dyes from newbs coming over from pre-sear Ascalon, where dye drops are marginally more frequent, but they're not stupid! Another thing is that older gamers who might consider paying 500-700 for silver dye a week ago certainly wouldn't touch Silver dye at 5k+ at the moment.
The bottom line on Dye? Well, personally, I either use them or lose them. It may be fun to play the finances on GW to some people, but I'd sooner be out there killing monsters, doing quests etc.
Drakron
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
Circulation of black dye got almost to a full stop.
Why? Greed! |
Black dye is a rare drop (Anet coded the drops), the trader have insane profit margins (Anet coded the traders) and drops are the only source of dye (Anet made dye drops only).
Dont blame players to hang into their dyes, players keep then for customization and since drops are the only source of dyes in the game, people would hang on even if they were worth nothing.
Lorelei
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by trelloskilos
but I'd sooner be out there killing monsters, doing quests etc.
|
*Repeats the mantra*
"Kill monsters, people! Kill monsters! You are slacking off sitting in Ascalon City or Lyon Arch playing funny ebay with funny gold!"
Sagius Truthbarron
Black dye is up... 24.4k! I went to check prices becuase I saw a level 4-7 warrior wearing a top dyed black.
Lost
Ah, the dyes (except black) have returned to reasonable levels. Red is back down to 800. Much better.
DFrost
Cruel? I'd say "staggering on the fine line between lunacy and mental derangement" is more like it. But I'm not complaining, I don't have use for dyes for a while, so I'll just sell everything for a big wad o' cash.
Krank
But still lost, red should be at 300 its always been, i agree from 4.4 plat to 800 is a BEAUTIFUL decrease, but there still is a major problem here.
Ashley Twig
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
Judging from their EULA, it's not.
... ArenaNet earns money from initial sales and expansion sales, not from players playing inbetween. |
On some other thread somebody mentioned that korea has to pay a fee to play GW. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, aNet sure gets a piece of the action.
So their income might not solely connected to initial sales and expansion sales.
They want to keep player numbers high.
But what does the majority of players do, after completing the game?
I think they go farming.
Why farm anyway? To increase money.
And then what? Having tons of platinum in-game is like finding gold bars in a dessert, dying of thirst. It's more or less useless, unless the farmers sell it on eBay to make "real" money.
So selling in-game-stuff on eBay (gold, whatever) is in the interest of aNet, because if there'd be no means to sell in-game stuff, the farmers would loose interest. Player numbers would drop.
And what's the difference between a farming bot and a farming human, except that the bot can farm 24/7?
Both share the same interest: getting rich.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
This assumption doesn't make any sense. The moment you click on the dye merchant, you get presented with current quotes for every vial of dye.
|
Why would they put an extra button like that in the game?
Plague
I've personally yet to really understand the whole dye system. It seems like a quaint system, as the stuff is useless aside from just playfully coloring yourself for asthetics, but it's arguably the most sought-after form of object in the entire game, globally. You would think it would be a common throw-away item, considering you cannot get it back after you use it, you can't preview mixes between dyes, and the drops are so infrequent that you'll most likely go through several characters before you even have enough of one dye to create a dye-symmetrical set of armor.
Personally, I find the dye so rare and so expensive that I've never even used mine. I hide it away safely in my Storage.
That's another thing. If the value of the item is determined by the supply and demand to the merchants, and merchants will not offer you a reasonable price for your incredibly rare goods (that you'd likely want to have for yourself anyway) why would you ever sell them back to the merchant? It all seems quite unnecessary for something so trivial, imo.
Personally, I find the dye so rare and so expensive that I've never even used mine. I hide it away safely in my Storage.
That's another thing. If the value of the item is determined by the supply and demand to the merchants, and merchants will not offer you a reasonable price for your incredibly rare goods (that you'd likely want to have for yourself anyway) why would you ever sell them back to the merchant? It all seems quite unnecessary for something so trivial, imo.
Silmor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
I don't know. That's the official version.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
Sure, but you still have to press the "requst quote" button, to actually get the final price, and to be able to actually buy the item.
Why would they put an extra button like that in the game? |
Practically speaking people interested in buying dye will check the dye trader, and if the price for their dye of interest is acceptable will request a quote and buy it. I don't see any reasonable argument for the assumption that this quote request step would influence dye prices. The price for some dyes is currently higher than most people could afford, but that's a symptom, and supports your speculation as much as it supports the speculation that little dwarves sneak into the dye trader to raise prices there when people aren't looking.
Ashley Twig
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
Let's just keep it at that then, there's little point to any further speculation into what ArenaNet does and does not intend, their actions will show their intentions in the end.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
I don't see any reasonable argument for the assumption that this quote request step would influence dye prices.
|
So if one assumes, that everything in existence has some purpose, that button must have one.
But as long as nobody else comes up with a theory, we'll never know.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
The price for some dyes is currently higher than most people could afford, but that's a symptom, and supports your speculation as much as it supports the speculation that little dwarves sneak into the dye trader to raise prices there when people aren't looking.
|
Silmor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
Well, at least I have a theory about the purpose of that button, which is better than simply describing what the button does.
|
ManadartheHealer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
Sometimes a button is just a button, without hidden functionality aside what was advertised. The button says it requests a quote, it requests a quote, and for some reason you need to have pressed the button before you can turn that quote into a deal. As far as we know, what the button does is the purpose of the button, your theory goes into a supposed hidden secondary purpose of the button, and without reasonable grounds to suspect such a purpose (for instance you've spent an afternoon requesting quotes for yellow dye, and yellow dye suddenly costs 20k), I don't see how that is 'better'. Unless you're bored and enjoy conspiracy theories, ofcourse.
|
Any accusations that it may do other things are baseless
Ashley Twig
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Silmor
Unless you're bored and enjoy conspiracy theories, ofcourse.
|
But for some reason, threads that only so much threaten to turn into a CT-thread are, sooner or later, shut down. I wonder why that is?
Since I haven't been online yesterday (first time in 2 months not online) I'm wondering: How are prices now? Did they return to normal as aNet "promised"?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer
Any accusations that it may do other things are baseless
|
It was put there after. Since it doesn't improve game play, I think it has a purpose other than just requesting a quote.
generik
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ashley Twig
You don't have to be bored to enjoy conspiracy theories.
But for some reason, threads that only so much threaten to turn into a CT-thread are, sooner or later, shut down. I wonder why that is? Since I haven't been online yesterday (first time in 2 months not online) I'm wondering: How are prices now? Did they return to normal as aNet "promised"? Well, the button wasn't there when I started playing GW in may. It was put there after. Since it doesn't improve game play, I think it has a purpose other than just requesting a quote. |
When I saw the new interface and read their public announcements, no where did they mention anything about new economic models, or even new trader behaviours... look at what we have now.
I suspect they changed something in the last update, they are just too cow/dishonest to admit it.
And please don't come forth with something along the lines of "It is their I.P., they can do as they deem fit.." blah blah... sure they can, then don't be a hypocrite and claim to be all open and transparent about things!
Tourist
Was in Lion's Arch earlier today, and black dye was going for 26k. So I figure "Hey, I got that random black dye I picked up right after I started post-searing, wonder if I can make some good money from it?" So I checked the sell price for my precious black dye, and what's it selling for? ONE. FREAKING. GOLD.
Absofreakinglutely Regodamndiculous. ANET, FIX THY ECONOMY.
Absofreakinglutely Regodamndiculous. ANET, FIX THY ECONOMY.
Luna Thirteen
and this is what I see...wow. I would like some orange dye please ^_^