Aegis Generator - Protection Mo/Me build
Keure
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Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
Quote: Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
16 Prot
13 Divine Favor
Divine Boon
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Draw Conditions
Peace and Harmony {E}
Contemplation of Purity
Blessed Aura
Res of choice Protection above maybe 10 doesn't give you all that much, and it's not worth running Divine Boon at 13 to give you a 16 in protection. DB is ideally run at 16 DF.
Contemplation of Purity does not mix with P&H/Blessed Aura.
Blessed Aura isn't doing much here either. You don't have Divine Spirit, or any of the really powerful monk enchantment elites. The only thing worth noting is the 7-8 second Guardian but that's doesn't make running Blessed Aura over a bunch of other utility stuff (like removals) that's not present in the build.
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Contemplation of Purity does not mix with P&H/Blessed Aura.
Sure it does, it removes hexes and conditions, strips enchantments that are stifiling your energy regeneration and HEALS you. You must not have tested this and just read the spells and decided "not a combo". Again, as I stated, in my testing it was an emergency cleanse and heal. It worked like a charm. Do I advocate YOU use it? No way. I merely reported I liked the way it worked, it is an unused skill. I have finished the game 4 times over, I have 2 monks, what else do I have left since I don't do GvG? I test skills, especially the disregarded ones. Many of which are disregarded with good cause, like P&H LOL.
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P&H is already crap for the amount of energy you get out of it when it runs its full duration (most elite energy management skills give at least 2x or 3x you get from P&H) - but it *has* to run its full duration in order for you to get the energy you want from it.
What happens when you use Contemplation of Purity, after, say, 30 seconds? After 30 seconds you got a net 5 energy from your elite energy management skill. Was it worth sacrificing your elite slot that would have gotten you 20+ more energy if you were running an actual energy management elite for some 70 or so HP of healing and a condition/hex removed? P&H has been on my junk list a LONG time. I have been using OoB for a LONG time. That doesn't mean I can't test P&H in a build. You are here arguing/debating about the norm vs. testing anything outside the norm. Perhaps you need a thread of your own? "My standard, everyone plays it, it takes no advantage of the issues in Grenth's and Sorrow's, prot build"?
There's a reason why it's outside the norm and no one uses it - it is simply worse than the options that are traditionally advocated.
You don't prove something's effectiveness through only testing - if by testing you beat whatever's in front of you doesn't mean that build is really effective, it only means that your build is better than the enemy's build, or that you are a more skilled player than the opposing side. Testing is even worse in PvE where the enemy groups don't adapt nor act intelligently.
You have to get yourself a theoretical base first through which you show the build's effectiveness in theory (look, on paper with this build two people can spike someone out in the span of a second. Look, on paper with this build this character has an extremely high energy regeneration rate with a minimal opportunity cost. Look, on paper with this build you can force the opponents to undergo a massive negative energy regeneration, meaning it can obliterate a certain type of build). And then you test it to make sure that you covered all the bases (crap, this one character requires way too much micro to be fully effective, crap, the enchantment-light environment means that this skill doesn't do as much as we thought it would).
You don't have that theoretical base. No amount of testing will get you a good build without it.
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Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't shun anything. I stated I use Inspired Hex with my Mesmer. I gave legitimate arguement about it's cool down
Your argument about cooldown:13 Divine Favor
Divine Boon
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Draw Conditions
Peace and Harmony {E}
Contemplation of Purity
Blessed Aura
Res of choice Protection above maybe 10 doesn't give you all that much, and it's not worth running Divine Boon at 13 to give you a 16 in protection. DB is ideally run at 16 DF.
Contemplation of Purity does not mix with P&H/Blessed Aura.
Blessed Aura isn't doing much here either. You don't have Divine Spirit, or any of the really powerful monk enchantment elites. The only thing worth noting is the 7-8 second Guardian but that's doesn't make running Blessed Aura over a bunch of other utility stuff (like removals) that's not present in the build.
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Sure it does, check the difference between Prot Spirit at 10 Prot and 16, or Guardian.|
Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
Who cares if you use Inspired Hex for energy gain, you are just gonna spend more energy healing off the newly applied hex that is immediately cast after you remove it.
You're looking at Inspired Hex the wrong way.
Inspired Hex is another energy management tool that happens to remove hexes. Even if the hex is reapplied, you still get a bunch of energy that you wouldn't have if the hex wasn't removed in the first place through Inspired Hex. Vexed Arcanist
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Originally Posted by Keure
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Testing is how you find good builds. I test with henchman, no one suffers but me. Stay on topic if you are going to respond to what I have been listing, otherwise you are simply distracting.|
Blessed Aura isn't doing much here either. You don't have Divine Spirit, or any of the really powerful monk enchantment elites. The only thing worth noting is the 7-8 second Guardian but that's doesn't make running Blessed Aura over a bunch of other utility stuff (like removals) that's not present in the build.
Agreed, and again I merely was testing Blessed Aura, especially in light of the build at the begining of this thread. I also stated this in a previous post, it isn't worth it in a dboon spike prot build. Quote:
Everything you do has an opportunity cost. Sure, Guardian is nice at 16 prot. Prot Spirit is completely usable at 10 prot but gets a decent duration increase at 16 (too bad I don't see it in the build so you aren't taking advantage of your 16 prot). However, your Divine Boon at lower levels of DF suffers because of it.
Quote: You may prefer to use unused stuff but it doesn't change the fact that P&H sucks abysmally (did you even read the links or do the math?) - and even more so when you include Contemplation of Purity on your skill bar. Contemplation of Purity ends P&H on use. P&H is already crap for the amount of energy you get out of it when it runs its full duration (most elite energy management skills give at least 2x or 3x you get from P&H) - but it *has* to run its full duration in order for you to get the energy you want from it. What happens when you use Contemplation of Purity, after, say, 30 seconds? After 30 seconds you got a net 5 energy from your elite energy management skill. Was it worth sacrificing your elite slot that would have gotten you 20+ more energy if you were running an actual energy management elite for some 70 or so HP of healing and a condition/hex removed? Inspired Hex, that non-elite that you shun, gives more energy over time than P&H and doesn't get shafted by Contemplation Of Purity if you can find hexes to eliminate. Quote:
You made a general statement that high prot is inefficient. I gave you two basic spells to check your statement against. I don't use Prot Spirit in my build. A high Protection gives a much longer duration on Prot Spirit, that in itself is energy management. You don't have to recast a 10 energy spell....what, 5 seconds sooner? Energy management. Guardian: 40% block or 52%? Greater chance to block = less healing = energy management = efficient.
Quote: You may prefer to use unused stuff but it doesn't change the fact that P&H sucks abysmally (did you even read the links or do the math?) - and even more so when you include Contemplation of Purity on your skill bar. |
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What happens when you use Contemplation of Purity, after, say, 30 seconds? After 30 seconds you got a net 5 energy from your elite energy management skill. Was it worth sacrificing your elite slot that would have gotten you 20+ more energy if you were running an actual energy management elite for some 70 or so HP of healing and a condition/hex removed? P&H has been on my junk list a LONG time. I have been using OoB for a LONG time. That doesn't mean I can't test P&H in a build. You are here arguing/debating about the norm vs. testing anything outside the norm. Perhaps you need a thread of your own? "My standard, everyone plays it, it takes no advantage of the issues in Grenth's and Sorrow's, prot build"?
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Standard builds are standard for a reason - they're good, useful and efficient.|
Inspired Hex, that non-elite that you shun, gives more energy over time than P&H and doesn't get shafted by Contemplation Of Purity if you can find hexes to eliminate.
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't shun anything. I stated I use Inspired Hex with my Mesmer. I gave legitimate arguement about it's cool down and the fact you immediate use that energy you gained to heal the replacing Hex immediately cast. You obviously have failed to test your theory in Grenth's. Quote:
With stuff like Healing Prayers you want really high healing because the healing is concrete and efficiency suffers otherwise. With Divine Boon you want it really high because a really high DF is the only way to make it worth running. With Protection Prayers you're paying for non-concrete benefits whose amount of damage prevention doesn't scale nearly as well as it does with the previous two.
Yes, it's true that having a prot 16 Guardian can save some energy (it has to innately or it would be tough to justify running). But my argument the entire time is that it is worse in terms of efficiency to have a 16 prot + bad Divine Boon + bad energy management than it is to have 10 prot + good Divine Boon + good energy management. Math shows that this is the case. Quote: P&H has been on my junk list a LONG time. I have been using OoB for a LONG time. That doesn't mean I can't test P&H in a build. You are here arguing/debating about the norm vs. testing anything outside the norm. Perhaps you need a thread of your own? "My standard, everyone plays it, it takes no advantage of the issues in Grenth's and Sorrow's, prot build"? |
There's a reason why it's outside the norm and no one uses it - it is simply worse than the options that are traditionally advocated.
You don't prove something's effectiveness through only testing - if by testing you beat whatever's in front of you doesn't mean that build is really effective, it only means that your build is better than the enemy's build, or that you are a more skilled player than the opposing side. Testing is even worse in PvE where the enemy groups don't adapt nor act intelligently.
You have to get yourself a theoretical base first through which you show the build's effectiveness in theory (look, on paper with this build two people can spike someone out in the span of a second. Look, on paper with this build this character has an extremely high energy regeneration rate with a minimal opportunity cost. Look, on paper with this build you can force the opponents to undergo a massive negative energy regeneration, meaning it can obliterate a certain type of build). And then you test it to make sure that you covered all the bases (crap, this one character requires way too much micro to be fully effective, crap, the enchantment-light environment means that this skill doesn't do as much as we thought it would).
You don't have that theoretical base. No amount of testing will get you a good build without it.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist It has a 20 second cool down and this is why I do not like it. You aren't giving anyone much information about your argument. Would the skill suddenly become really effective in your book if it gave you 1/4 the net energy, removes a hex 1/4th the time, and has a cooldown of 5 seconds?
Quote: Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist and the fact you immediate use that energy you gained to heal the replacing Hex immediately cast. So you have to spend some energy to deal with the hex. You have to deal with the hex *anyway* regardless of whether or not you use Inspired Hex, right?
Quote: Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist It is also a concrete fact Blessed Signet gives 3 energy per enchantmen maintained. With only 2 enchantments I can gain 6 energy. It recycles in 10 seconds. I don't use Blessed Signet either. Invalid comparison. To get the energy with Blessed Signet you need to maintain more enchantments, which means that your innate energy regeneration goes down and you usually lose more skill slots for those enchantments. If hexes are thrown about as much as you say Inspired Hex is a 1-skill slot required free energy.
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Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
I won't be responding to your future comments as you are flamebaiting. Testing is what has been going on here. I have made comments in previous posts about various spells that you obviously disregard, facts that you try and through in the face of other spells I bring up I have tested. If you can't take what I say in whole you are just being argumentative and have no solid ground for debate.
I'm arguing because I want to promote good effective builds, as good effective builds improve the quality of play as well as bring greater degrees of success to the player looking to succeed. Statements like these don't help with this goal: Quote:
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