Remember Magic the Gathering?

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

16 Sep 2005 at 11:14 - 1
Who of you know Magic the Gathering and notice simular ways in building a deck and building a team for PvP?

When MtG came out the first popular builds were damage destruction: Get you high dmg creature on table as fast as possible and go for the kill
As a reaction blue counter decks became popular: Nice spell, I counter it (or worse: nice creature, I steal it)

Many builds followed and with every new update of MtG strategy changes.

In GW I think we have had the damage destruction (tank/solo) builds and currently the counter (Mesmer) builds rule. Do you see other simularities, builds that remind of MtG? And should Anet follow the same strategy as Wizzards of the Coast and change the games rules with every Expansion?

Maxiemonster

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

16 Sep 2005 at 11:33 - 2
RPG's are the same as Card games, but RPG's just need a little bit skill. You're good in a card game when you have good cards, you're good in an RPG when you have good items. And I like both, because I like the idea of the possibilty of getting better and better, I played the Card game called Yu-Gi-Oh! a few years ago and started of as a complete noob, but eventually a was one of the better players in my country. It's exactly the same with Guild Wars.

Hanuman li Tosh

Hanuman li Tosh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

garden of the gods, CO

Over Powered

N/

16 Sep 2005 at 15:53 - 3
no. wizards of the coast RUINED dungeons and dragons.

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 16:07 - 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
no. wizards of the coast RUINED dungeons and dragons.
How?

DnD is much more streamline and better then before. No stupid weird "AC is better lower but attack must be high" bullshit.

Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 16:14 - 5
Mmm... Serra Avatar, Serra Angels, Personal Incarnations, Spirit Bond...

Gee I wonder what color I played mostly?

Yea, even being that I haven't borken into PvP too much yet I've still noticed the similarites to Magic. Even in how skils are 'colored' for each class, with some 'colorless'.

Konival

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

Brave Companions

Mo/

16 Sep 2005 at 16:16 - 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
RPG's are the same as Card games, but RPG's just need a little bit skill. You're good in a card game when you have good cards, you're good in an RPG when you have good items. And I like both, because I like the idea of the possibilty of getting better and better, I played the Card game called Yu-Gi-Oh! a few years ago and started of as a complete noob, but eventually a was one of the better players in my country. It's exactly the same with Guild Wars.
Yugioh is crap. The rules are so simple that it makes me cry.
Theres a million magic cards that instantly kills a monster.
And another thing, when the opponent has a monster with higher power than you, and lets say you got 4 other monsters thats a little weaker, and you got no magic that kills the other monster, you're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.
Unlike MTG where you can block with several monsters against the one thats attacking.
MTG is genious, even Pokemon got more strategy than crappy Yugioh.

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

16 Sep 2005 at 16:19 - 7
Pokemon has to be the best RPG for handhelds... you can spends HOURS leveling each...
you can even forget you where on the john while playing it.

I let someone have my collection once it went past the Urza triligoy of themes.

i had most of every card set release; no alpha's a few beta's a few of the really rare types and my Favorite Full set of cards would be Unglued, they had very humorius stuff.

Shinsei

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Denmark

16 Sep 2005 at 16:23 - 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E
Pokemon has to be the best RPG for handhelds... you can spends HOURS leveling each...
you can even forget you where on the john while playing it.
You bring this up because someone mentioned Pokemon as a card game?

Yeah I like to relax on the john. Sometimes I just play a handheld and sometimes I read magasines. I just love to read Time while letting loose. My toilet's white.

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

16 Sep 2005 at 16:27 - 9
Well card game or not; either way its a RPG.
I didnt like the expense of MTG + Pokemon cards. so a gameboy with tetris or pokemon can fill alot of time....

oh and for Wizards of the Coast; there going to go bankrupt.

Owen

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

16 Sep 2005 at 16:40 - 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiemonster
You're good in a card game when you have good cards, you're good in an RPG when you have good items.
Actually a common strategy in Magic for a long while was to use what were called 'Wienie Creature' decks built around cheap weak low cost creatures. The idea was to put out as many creatures as possible as early as possible and overwhelm your opponent. These decks rarely rose above $5 in value due to the use of almost exclusively common cards.

Let's also not forget about sealed deck tournaments. One starter deck and two booster packs were all you had to build a deck and compete in the tournament. Thos took skill, and naturally some luck of the draw as to what uncommons and rares you would pull from your sealed packs.

I'm not saying this to contradict your point but rather to remind people that Magic was unique among all these CCG's in that the best cards didn't always win. Johnny Moneybags who came into the tourney with all the great cards his mommy bought him could easily be schooled by Joe Average with a swarm of 1/1 white or green creatures or a well built blue counter deck (which was also cheap to build due to the numerous inexpensive counters).

Their are alot of similar things between Magic and GW but that is the thing that's lacking. You're not gonna see someone with a build based around skills grabbed in Ascalon and no Elites or Runes or high level armor beating someone with a fully pimped character with the whole she-bang. Skill is only ever involved in PvP in GW when the playing field is level while in Magic a well built deck consisting of 'sucky' cards could win you a tourney if your build strategy was sound. GW gameplay-wise is more like Yugioh in that the best cards (Skills) nearly always win but it's like Magic aesthetically in the class structure/color relationship/divisions and the overall feel as well as evolution of strategy.

kalaris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Warrior Nation [WN]

W/N

16 Sep 2005 at 16:49 - 11
Ahhh the Red sliegh... how I miss carefully building and balancing mana curve and saying F' it to defense...

anyway... this compairsion has been made by alot of people over the course of the months and months Guildwars has been played...

And honestly, yeah, I build pvp teams the way I build magic decks, pretty much the same way honestly. Which is one of the things I love about Guildwars =)

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

16 Sep 2005 at 16:49 - 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
no. wizards of the coast RUINED dungeons and dragons.
Only in as much as that they produced the first, best and largest CCG in the world that most people dropped desktop roleplaying instantly... and the addiction to MTG, for me, went on for 5 solid years meeting different people around the world to play it.

But this never destroyed my love for dungeons and dragons.. yea, maybe there was a need for a new 'system' but fantasy worlds in which dungeons and dragons are present, along with their usual mix of magic and mystery will never disapear.

On that note, I do agree about the similarities to GW, the thought required to build a highly efficient, stream-lined 60 card competative deck is very much comparable to building an 8man team that is highly aggressive, highly defensive and yet flexible enough to combat different situations.

By the way.. I still have an un-opened booster box(36 booster packs) of original Ice age.. anyone know what its worth?.. if anything

Ollj

Ollj

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 17:01 - 13
Guild wars was highly inspired by magic the gathering, no doubt about that.

Szechwan Chi Qin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 17:04 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teklord
Mmm... Serra Avatar, Serra Angels, Personal Incarnations, Spirit Bond...

Gee I wonder what color I played mostly?

Yea, even being that I haven't borken into PvP too much yet I've still noticed the similarites to Magic. Even in how skils are 'colored' for each class, with some 'colorless'.
White, baby! My first deck was White Weenie, and next to my U/R Creatureless Burn Deck (Thank goodness for pain lands in 9th!), one of my favorite theme decks is my white angel deck (slow and VERY casual, but loads of fun!).

Yuppers, I noticed the MtG theme as soon as I started playing and started reading into the skill descriptions. Look at Reversal of Fortune: The next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of health instead. Sounds just like a MtG card!

Here's hoping Arena.Net will be releasing "Blocks" of skills on a regular basis!

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

16 Sep 2005 at 17:55 - 15
Yes and just like Magic everyone just goes on the net, finds out what is most popular and works, then proceeds to make that exact cookie cutter build.

Nothing was worse than being at the Magic regionals this year and some little kid was using one of the top decks and had no idea how to play with it.

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 17:56 - 16
unfortunately Magic came out when I was in Middle School....it wasn't cool and therefore I wasn't allowed to play it

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

16 Sep 2005 at 18:08 - 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E
W

oh and for Wizards of the Coast; there going to go bankrupt.
Highly doubt that.

Spooter

Spooter

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Jersey

E/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 18:08 - 18
Sounds like Reverse Damage to me. "The next time a source of your choice would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage. You gain that much life".

Szechwan Chi Qin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 18:37 - 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
unfortunately Magic came out when I was in Middle School....it wasn't cool and therefore I wasn't allowed to play it
Huh?!? You've got to love peer pressure to limit you from what you want to be or to do... I come from the OD&D crowd when I was in Middle School (They called it Junior High back then), and I was proud of it! Screw the elitist cool groups!

8^B

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 18:42 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Szechwan Chi Qin
Huh?!? You've got to love peer pressure to limit you from what you want to be or to do... I come from the OD&D crowd when I was in Middle School (They called it Junior High back then), and I was proud of it! Screw the elitist cool groups!

8^B

pffft. I had a reputation to protect

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

16 Sep 2005 at 20:24 - 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
unfortunately Magic came out when I was in Middle School....it wasn't cool and therefore I wasn't allowed to play it

lol

this guy is great isnt he?

was smoking cigarettes cool at your school? what about drugs?..

no serious!

I'm interested in knowing the things you DID do in school because you thought they were "cool" ?

Theos

Theos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

River Dancing

Eternal Treachery [TimE]

Me/E

16 Sep 2005 at 21:19 - 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box
Who of you know Magic the Gathering and notice simular ways in building a deck and building a team for PvP?

When MtG came out the first popular builds were damage destruction: Get you high dmg creature on table as fast as possible and go for the kill
As a reaction blue counter decks became popular: Nice spell, I counter it (or worse: nice creature, I steal it)

Many builds followed and with every new update of MtG strategy changes.

In GW I think we have had the damage destruction (tank/solo) builds and currently the counter (Mesmer) builds rule. Do you see other simularities, builds that remind of MtG? And should Anet follow the same strategy as Wizzards of the Coast and change the games rules with every Expansion?
Mesmer builds, in the form of counters do not rule anything, this type of play takes brain and not mindless button mash. In other words only 5% of the current mesmer players are actually running counter (excluding diversion... this skill has become... very used). The only mesmers running around are the frag builds that counter nothing, simple spike builds, that are easily counterable themselves. The other popular mesmer build is that of Dom Damage... which I find funny... backfire for the loss!

The other mesmer build is IW... ya... easily counterable.

In the end what has happened is that mesmers, like elmos, have become the play ground for idiots with IQ's that barely break being a whole number. Not to say that there are no good players, but very few in the sea of crap.

Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 21:26 - 23
Spirit Bond? Maybe what I'm thinking of was called Spirit Link. Its just been so long... but it was an Enchant Creature card and for every point of damage the enchanted card dealt you gained one life. Love that on my Serra Avatar, a creature that had a power/toughness equal to your life total! You could effectively double your life every attack phase, assuming your opponent lived much longer.

Guild Wars could use a Worship: Enchantment. While you maintain this enchantment any damage that would reduce your health to less than 1, reduces it to 1 instead.

Wanna solo anywhere? That's how ya do it! I don't know of any creature in GW that only hits for 1. Not that I support soloing or anything... hehehe. (Cause I don't)

Maxiemonster

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

16 Sep 2005 at 21:35 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konival
Yugioh is crap. The rules are so simple that it makes me cry.
Theres a million magic cards that instantly kills a monster.
And another thing, when the opponent has a monster with higher power than you, and lets say you got 4 other monsters thats a little weaker, and you got no magic that kills the other monster, you're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.
Unlike MTG where you can block with several monsters against the one thats attacking.
MTG is genious, even Pokemon got more strategy than crappy Yugioh.
I agree with you now, but I was a 11 year old kid those days, I was way too young to play Magic the Gathering at that time, since it was kinda hard to be accepted between all those 20-30 year old guys, I tried to play it, believe me, but I was nearly ignored by older people..

And clearly, you haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh! that much, I agree that it's not as great as Magic the Gathering, but many things you're saying aren't true at all, so please don't talk about something you don't know at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algren Cole
unfortunately Magic came out when I was in Middle School....it wasn't cool and therefore I wasn't allowed to play it
I thought the same, I'm not really an unsocial nerd type guy, but I did like Yu-Gi-Oh!, but I didn't want my schoolmates to know. But of course, how can you hide something you play a couple of hours every day? You can't. So they found out, they laught for 2 minutes, but never cared about it again. People shouldn't worry about it too much, the ones that DO care and ignore you ore anything aren't friends anyway, so screw them.

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

16 Sep 2005 at 21:39 - 25
Yes, I remember MTG... I still occasionally play it.

For those who still play and are familiar with card values, here's a treat:



Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 21:41 - 26
Black Lotus... too bad the border is White.

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

16 Sep 2005 at 21:44 - 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teklord
Black Lotus... too bad the border is White.
Maybe, but it still sells for $900+ USD The full P9 set will easily go $3000+, probably way more since it's mint/near-mint and complete.

All the black-border stuff I ran accross during my MTG gaming days were horribly worn, so I stayed clear of them.

Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 21:55 - 28
Yeah I just checked ebay out and found a few Lotus' going for 500 - 700, white border. P9, does that mean 9th edition? I haven't played since around 7th. If they are that much, I wonder what a mint/near mint black border Lotus from the original set would go for. That is if anyone were to still have one.

Howling Mines are you friends.

Aracos79

Aracos79

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Great Southwest

Shadowstorm Mercenaries

E/

16 Sep 2005 at 22:01 - 29
P9 refers to "power 9"... the 9 big cards from the original sets of Magic. Lemme see if I can get them all...

Mox Pearl
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Mox Saphire
Black Lotus
Ancestral Recall
Time Warp
Time Twister

There ya go.

Khan

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Flaming Goat Heads of Doom

W/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 22:03 - 30
Can i have those undergroud rivers .^_^.

Algren Cole

Algren Cole

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 22:04 - 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
lol

this guy is great isnt he?

was smoking cigarettes cool at your school? what about drugs?..

no serious!

I'm interested in knowing the things you DID do in school because you thought they were "cool" ?

Actually....I didn't feel the need to get stabbed over of a card game...see not all of us grew up in white suburbia where we had the freedom to be who you wanted to be. And yes, drugs were a source of income...anything that put food on the table was 'cool'

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

16 Sep 2005 at 22:06 - 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan
Can i have those undergroud rivers .^_^.
Underground Rivers were ice age main lands... those in the picture are Underground Seas, which had no life-penalties for tapping.

Szechwan Chi Qin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 22:19 - 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teklord
Spirit Bond? Maybe what I'm thinking of was called Spirit Link. Its just been so long... but it was an Enchant Creature card and for every point of damage the enchanted card dealt you gained one life. Love that on my Serra Avatar, a creature that had a power/toughness equal to your life total! You could effectively double your life every attack phase, assuming your opponent lived much longer.

Guild Wars could use a Worship: Enchantment. While you maintain this enchantment any damage that would reduce your health to less than 1, reduces it to 1 instead.

Wanna solo anywhere? That's how ya do it! I don't know of any creature in GW that only hits for 1. Not that I support soloing or anything... hehehe. (Cause I don't)
Hehe, speaking of Worship, I had this combo in my earlier mentioned Angel deck:



It's nice until run into WoG and enchantment removal.

8^B

Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 22:23 - 34
I'm not familiar with that Angel, but the other two cards I know well enough. I didn't really need Blessing though, as I chose main Serra Angels and Archangels which by default don't tap to attack.

That protection ability is undoubtably nice to have though.

And P9: thanks for the explaination on that.

Szechwan Chi Qin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 22:29 - 35
Actually you really don't need the blessing since Pristine has an untap ability, but I remember someone using a global removal spell for tapped cards on me once. Anyone remember what that card may have been?

Teklord

Teklord

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Lloyd.ab.ca

Lords of All

R/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 22:32 - 36
Nah my fav globals were easily: Wrath of God, Armageddon, and Cataclysm. Kill all creatures, kill all lands, and kill all but one of everything respectively.

Sol_Vie

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

16 Sep 2005 at 22:35 - 37
Serra's blessing was a common card in my decks, and my friends hated me for it. Ah MTG! What a wonderful game. I still have my decks together at home.

Sidearm Al

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2005

W/

16 Sep 2005 at 22:50 - 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E
oh and for Wizards of the Coast; there going to go bankrupt.
Not possible, D&D is still the best selling RPG, MtG is still selling well, D&D minis is taking off like hot cakes ... and don't forget about all that Monolopoly money.

Evisicator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 22:54 - 39
Have to say Favorite Mondo Combo has got to be Lich/Mirror Universe for the win!!!!!

Aracos79

Aracos79

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Great Southwest

Shadowstorm Mercenaries

E/

16 Sep 2005 at 22:54 - 40
Cataclysm was the reset in my 1.X White Weenie deck when Ice Age was still 1.X legal. I get to keep a land, my shadow creature, the enchantment making him very large, and my Mox Diamond. Have a nice day.