Major runes. Why so much health?

Originally Posted by ghezbora

I agree majors need to be un-sucked. In general, the population uses minors (because they have no penalty) or superiors (because the cost/benefit ratio is superior to majors). Whether you accept the health loss or not, the vast majority think major runes are trash -- if you don't believe me, ask the rune trader.

/signed

Originally Posted by Malchior Devenholm

Would agree with you about the 0, 30, 75 except when combined with enough mods-30's irrelevent!

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

In PvP most good offensive trapper builds would run a superior in expertise and a major in wildenerness with the sup vigor of course and +energy + health on their staff

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Minors = -0
Majors = -25
Superior = -50

That'd make sense.

Originally Posted by Mr. Self Destruct

Greygon, how exactly would you justify Anet wasting their time and pissing off 90% of their customers to remove an element from the game that is totally optional and has no detremental effects on anyone? The question is not how common their usage is (I imagine much moreso than you think) or their monetary value, but what exactly warrants their removal? If using a major gave a player an unfair advantage, then an argument for removing them would be understandable. But they do not create an unbalance. Removing them would be pointless.

However, I will agree with you that extracting a major rune from gold armor is bs and this should have been fixed a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Malchior Devenholm

Would agree with you about the 0, 30, 75 except when combined with enough mods-30's irrelevent! Think about it, even a minor vigor entirely cancels out a 30, and what if a person had sup vigor? +20 hp, so +2 an attribute with the major, and still +20 hp allows for another major with not much penalty. (-10 penalty) Then if combined with a couple of health mods (say the standard high health mods on shields) even more health is gained while a sufficient boost of +2 remains on 2 attributes. Heck, even someone as varifying as an elementalist, ranger, or monk might find it possible to have 4 major runes on EVERY piece of their armor for just 120 penalty total.

Originally Posted by Greygon

I dunno SD... I think that they aren't used that much with the exception or Vig and Absorb... I also think that they cause PvP players (which I am not) to spend a LOT more time unlocking runes... If they don't take them out they really need to do something to modify them so they are at least worthy of considering. I do know that some people use them, but it seems that they are only used to "get by" until a Superior can be found. Maybe I am wrong... and it seems that many feel I am, but I still think they are a real waste.

Originally Posted by glountz

My 2 cents

First, /signed with Minor=0 , Major=-25, Superior=-50

2) If PVP spike build would be destroyed, fine. More gameplay and more strategies to find. Not always the same boring IWAY/Air Ele spike build. When will I see Water elementalist build in PVP? I have yet to wait.

3)A +3 (-75)does not equal two +2 (-50*2).
Try some maths.
I want to raise two attributes to 13.
I want to optimize my build with runes so I can spare some points and/or some Hp.
Two options:
*A superior (+3) and a minor (+1) for -75hp
I need 12+1 for the first attribute and 10+3 for the second.
So 97+61 in total=158 attributes points.
* Two Major (+2) for -100 hp.
Need the two attributes at 11. To raise to 11 both I need 77*2=154 Attributes points.

Let's see.... 154 attributes points for -100 hp or 158 for -75hp? You still not see why nobody choose the first solution?

4)In addition, Superior is THE ONLY WAY to max out an attribute. Major can't. That's why they are so precious. You would make the majors to -0 hp that there would be superior runes sold every day!
Warriors and rangers can rely on their equipment to take out ennemies and do damage. They don't need superior. But each spellcaster class need this to do the best they can.
An elementalist is by far more effective at 16 Air 13 Energy Storage than at, say, 13 Air 13 Earth 12 Energy storage. It's even more true in PVP, where each member has to be really good in it's purpose, not to be a jack-all-trade. It's good only for solo-play (which isn't effective in PVP anyway).
And remember, there is only EIGHT SKILL SLOTS. It's nonsense to raise 3 or more attributes, unless you have a very special combination of skill (I have yet to see an effective skillbar with skills from 4 attributes).

Originally Posted by Krazax

I used to think the same thing, because this leads to the reasoning of "What's wrong with giving players more HPs?" Because:
If players have more hps, they last longer -> If players last longer battles take longer. -> If battles take longer you need more strategy to win. -> If you need more strategy to win, the game would be more in synch with what Anet wants... right?

Yes... and a really big No.

When Yes? In PvP. It could be a lot more interesting... maybe. Either it would or matches would drag on and on and on.
When No? In PvE. Why? Because the game designers would need to completely rebalance the ENTIRE GAME. Lowering the HP cost of superior runes would lead to everyone using multiple superiors. This combined with more hps, results in DRAMATICLY more personal player power. Power over the computer more precisely.

Yeah so what, right? Let players be more powerful, that's good, we want that right?

Wrong again.

Why wrong?

If player power is dramaticaly more then it should be, you loose balance. A game that is too easy becomes boring at warp speed Mr. Scotty. That's bad. Bad bad bad bad.

Remember, mobs in the game don't use runes. They have their set HPs. So by allowing players to increase their hps, and at the same time their powers, you run into the same EXACT problem as allowing additional levels into the Guildwars Game. You loose balance. It would be as absurd as allowing vigor runes to stack. (Sure we'd all want that initially, but when we got bored even faster of the game because every zone became like killing Charr outside Ascalon as a level 20... you'd agree then.)

As it stands now, you can increase your personal power, but at the risk of increasing your death factor. That's balance.



Now, as for Major Attribute Runes being lowered. Yes, I agree with that and think it needs to be done. How much? I say reduce them so that they only reduce you by -40hps. This way 2 major's (+4 to attributes) costs -80 health. Where as +3 from a superior is still -75. Then if you think about it, you'd only be loosing an additional 5 hps for another skill point.

This would make for some real tuff decision calls by players and would put majors as desireable as superiors, and hopefully to ultimately spread that money around.

Originally Posted by Mayar third Keeper

/not signed

reason:

+1 -0
+2 -50
+3 -75
+4 -100
+5 -125
+6 -150

make sense!?

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

i dunno of anyone has mentioned this, but the first few posts here on this thread were saying major runes only give +1 attribute point, well, whoever said that is soo damn wrong, they give +2, and as a matter of fact, i use major runes.

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

i dunno of anyone has mentioned this, but the first few posts here on this thread were saying major runes only give +1 attribute point, well, whoever said that is soo damn wrong, they give +2, and as a matter of fact, i use major runes.

Originally Posted by Eur0b0y69

I use Majors alot in PvE, i dont see why take them out. Im a W/Mo and i have many different farming spots, for each i use either sword/axe or hammer, buying superior runes each time will cost a lot of money, but majors cost 100gp each , saves me a lot of money. If u dont like them dont use them, but dont take them out of the game.

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

How it is now - I can see why they did it like it is. It IS the most logical when you think of it. (I know I posted earlier something different - But I thought about it)

I think the classic:
Minor - 0
Major - 25
Superior - 75

argument is a good argument (you are paying more for each additional attribute lvl, so its like how it is with attribute pts). I even agreed with it til I thought. But it is flawed.

People using this one..dont think about bumping up more than 1 skill. Yea..your thoery only works when you are bumping up ONE skill and using minors on the others.

Because think about it - for that same 75 hp your losing for a +3 to 1 skill under this system - You can be raising THREE skills by +2.

I dont know about your builds...But most of mine - I'd love to raise almost every stat by +2 as opposed to ONE skill by +3..for the same health cost.

It would cause Majors to go up, and superiors to go down (they wouldn't tank to 100gp though). And that logic defy's the games principles that Superiors are suppsoed to be the best runes.