Using a Necromancer/Ranger can put you into pretty bad experiences in Guild Wars. I’m a battery type using a bow in conjunction with Kindle Arrows.
A few days ago I got bored so I decided to go do Thunderhead Keep to conquer it. I did my usual routine of yelling "battery necro looking for group" and to my surprise I got a group in less than thirty seconds for once. I acknowledged the pick up group with a simple hello and the leader asks me this question:
Leader: "You're a battery necro right?"
Me: "Yes, why did you add me if I wasn't?"
-then-
Leader: "Can you bring Well of Power and Blood Ritual?"
Me: "I prefer Blood is Power"
Leader: "No, bring Well of Power and Blood Ritual"
First off I had no idea what this guy was getting to. I have always used Blood is Power in Thunderhead Keep and not a soul has demanded anything else until that moment. So let us think about it, Well of Power needs a corpse. Ok. But what if the healer/protector runs out of energy? Do they run into my well that's right smack in the fray with Summit Beastmasters and Axe wielders?
Anyway, I met their demands and we headed out. We did fine after getting past the wall. There, is when sh*t started hitting the fan(by the way we camped with King Ironhammer). When the battle got hectic the wells were either ignored or right in the middle of the fray. Sometimes there were corpses near me and the monks if we got lucky. The Wells of Power were getting the monks killed. The Blood Ritual wasn't holding up, since I was literally playing follow the monk when they were under attack, and it was not replenishing the monks energy fast enough in return. Hence reading the constant cries of “ My energy is XX of XX.” I WOULD have brought BR and BiP but that means a dead Shelby -_-
So yeah we got creamed. When we got back I suggested that I bring Blood is Power and Well of Blood instead then went at it again. Thunderhead Keep ftw.
Questions? Comments? Concerns Complaints?
The other life of the Necromancer.
seraphite86
Sanji
Well, first off, as someone who played both a Monk and a Necro completely through the game, Battery necros simply can not compensate for bad Monks nor does a good Monk really need one. (Though their performance is greatly enchanted by them)
I'm not saying you wouldn't have done better with a build that you were more comfortable with, but I seriously doubt the difference between Well of Power/Blood Ritual or Blood is Power has much to do with your team wiping that first run.
But yeah, I freaking hate teams that specifically ask for Wells and then never take advantage of them.
I'm not saying you wouldn't have done better with a build that you were more comfortable with, but I seriously doubt the difference between Well of Power/Blood Ritual or Blood is Power has much to do with your team wiping that first run.
But yeah, I freaking hate teams that specifically ask for Wells and then never take advantage of them.
Aracos79
Anyone who asks for a "battery necro" and then insists on Well of Power over BiP is a noob and a moron. The Well does very little to improve overall energy, and (as you mentioned) had downsides in the corpse requirement and in placement.
And I agree with Sanji. No amount of BiP or Wells or Rituals can overcome a BAD monk. They can make decent monks good, and good monks great. But they won't save you from an idiot.
And I agree with Sanji. No amount of BiP or Wells or Rituals can overcome a BAD monk. They can make decent monks good, and good monks great. But they won't save you from an idiot.
Sekkira
I wont join a team that has a monk INSISTING that they NEED a battery necro to manage their energy. A protection monk I can kinda understand, but there's no real excuse for a healing monk at that stage in the game. IMO, a team that 'requires' a battery isn't one that'll work too well.
seraphite86
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Originally Posted by Sanji
I'm not saying you wouldn't have done better with a build that you were more comfortable with, but I seriously doubt the difference between Well of Power/Blood Ritual or Blood is Power has much to do with your team wiping that first run.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sanji
But yeah, I freaking hate teams that specifically ask for Wells and then never take advantage of them.
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Teufel Eldritch
I have found sometimes that group leaders unfamilar with Necro spell names will ask for Blood Renewal or Blood Ritual when they actually want BiP. It's simply a matter of ignorance, not necessarily stupidity.
Sanji
Yeah, I agree with you in that Well of Power and Blood Ritual feels like an inferior choice to Blood is Power and Well of Blood.
I don't like Blood Ritual because it's a touch skill while I can fire off Blood is Power quickly and wherever I want. I don't like Well of Power because Monks shouldn't be standing by monster corpses, while Well of Blood is good enough for backing up the people who should out in front.
I don't like Blood Ritual because it's a touch skill while I can fire off Blood is Power quickly and wherever I want. I don't like Well of Power because Monks shouldn't be standing by monster corpses, while Well of Blood is good enough for backing up the people who should out in front.
Tactical-Dillusions
I leave groups that tell me what skills to use. I know what works best in any given situation and i have a mental template for each and every mission/zone.
Trust your own instincts and experience.
Trust your own instincts and experience.
seraphite86
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
I leave groups that tell me what skills to use. I know what works best in any given situation and i have a mental template for each and every mission/zone.
Trust your own instincts and experience. |
But I agree with the above
lyra_song
when i ask for a battery necro i usually ask for well of blood for the tanking warrior and BiP for the spellcasters/monk. Of course i never force a player, rather make suggestions (unless he/she is really new at their job). >.>
Amused Observer
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Originally Posted by Aracos79
Anyone who asks for a "battery necro" and then insists on Well of Power over BiP is a noob and a moron. The Well does very little to improve overall energy, and (as you mentioned) had downsides in the corpse requirement and in placement.
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Elistan Theocrat
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
I leave groups that tell me what skills to use. I know what works best in any given situation and i have a mental template for each and every mission/zone.
Trust your own instincts and experience. |
Not to say that you dont actually know what works best for each situation, I'm sure you do, yet, there are alot of players out there who THINK they know whats best in every situation. More likely they are using what they are comfortable with. I personally won't ever TELL anyone what to bring, but I like to discuss what folks are bringing if for no better reason than to find out what needs wont be filled that I may be able to adress. Like, hex removal in FOW for that blasted spite spell. I myself cannot stand players who get offended when I ask what they are bringing and get all high and mighty about how much they know and blah blah blah.
Just my 2/3rd of a cent.
Ruvaen
Seraphite, I experience similar things with my Me/N that offers BiP and Well of Blood for support purposes but I bet you I have a harder time finding groups for missions.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
I leave groups that tell me what skills to use. I know what works best in any given situation and i have a mental template for each and every mission/zone.
Trust your own instincts and experience. |
Blood Ritual, the touch, 2 second cast time, and +3 pips only. Longer duration, but often the one in need of a boost will never ping their energy unless they can't cast anything on their bar. In those situations, it means the monk(s) have been going all out with spells and during that time you're going to lose a party member or two when you apply Blood Ritual.
I used to run BiP/WoB on my warrior in FoW, and everyone loved it. Battery tanks get a lot of love.
seraphite86
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
Seraphite, I experience similar things with my Me/N that offers BiP and Well of Blood for support purposes but I bet you I have a harder time finding groups for missions.
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Aracos79
I really liked Me/N as a combination because I think Fast Casting benefits a necro more than any other casting class. Getting the upper hand on corpse exploitation spells like Putrid and Wells is very valuable. Unfortunately... small minded PUG's will completely ignore you as mesmers are "completely useless" in PvE. :P
Mimi Miyagi
It's been my experience that if players specifically ask for a energy boosting skill, they tend to become lazy players, and don't mind their energy management as much. The extra energy becomes a crutch to prop up their lack of healing skills. While I never turn down a free enrgy boost from a necro, I never really need it.
I was playing in Hells with a PUG - we had two nukers (myself and another). After every battle (or even before the end) the other nuker was spamming "My energy is 2 of 79" or whatever. At the end of every battle I normally had at least 50-60 energy yet was doing more killing. Why? Because I paid attention to my energy management skills like fire and elemental attunement, and made sure those skills were constantly up. And this was even with arcane echo'ing metoer shower.
Some (most?) players just mash their mouse buttons without paying attention. Shrug.
And the battery necro seems to be the new fotw for esssential party members. It's cute how labels get stuck on a specific class and suddenly everyone wants one.
I was playing in Hells with a PUG - we had two nukers (myself and another). After every battle (or even before the end) the other nuker was spamming "My energy is 2 of 79" or whatever. At the end of every battle I normally had at least 50-60 energy yet was doing more killing. Why? Because I paid attention to my energy management skills like fire and elemental attunement, and made sure those skills were constantly up. And this was even with arcane echo'ing metoer shower.
Some (most?) players just mash their mouse buttons without paying attention. Shrug.
And the battery necro seems to be the new fotw for esssential party members. It's cute how labels get stuck on a specific class and suddenly everyone wants one.
Hanuman li Tosh
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Originally Posted by Aracos79
Anyone who asks for a "battery necro" and then insists on Well of Power over BiP is a noob and a moron. The Well does very little to improve overall energy, and (as you mentioned) had downsides in the corpse requirement and in placement.
And I agree with Sanji. No amount of BiP or Wells or Rituals can overcome a BAD monk. They can make decent monks good, and good monks great. But they won't save you from an idiot. |
its all the runners faults.
j/k
Sanji
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Originally Posted by Aracos79
I really liked Me/N as a combination because I think Fast Casting benefits a necro more than any other casting class. Getting the upper hand on corpse exploitation spells like Putrid and Wells is very valuable. Unfortunately... small minded PUG's will completely ignore you as mesmers are "completely useless" in PvE. :P
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A lot of people rip on it, but I have come to love Soul Reaping. Sure, Necromancer spells take a long time to cast, but they also are expensive. I simply would not switch Soul Reaping for Fast Casting, especially since Headgear/Runes also play an important role as a Necromancer.
I tend to do well enough with Minions, even commonly playing an area where I have enemy necromancers to compete with. I wouldn't want to imagine not being able to have 16 Death Magic, Blood Magic (Awaken the Blood for the win) or having to put points into Inspiration for active energy management as opposed to passive energy management that works just fine for even 25 Energy Bone Fiends.
tigernz
I prefer taking BR/WoP over BiP/WoB. The reason?
I can keep more casters going with BR than with BiP. Sure it doesn't give as much regen, but I'm able to constantly apply it on targets. With BiP I can use it twice, but if a stray attack comes my way I'm in trouble. Maybe it's just the groups I've been with when using BiP, where the monks weren't too generous with healing the guy slitting his wrists to give them their precious energy, but I found myself too low on health too often, and thus wasn't even able to use BiP when it was needed for fear of sacrificing myself to death.
The only reason I usually take WoP over WoB is for lack of a different elite to use in my build. I don't like BiP for the reasons mentioned above, and I figure WoP is helping the team more than OOB would.
WoP is also a nice group regen between fights too - everyone crowds around to get the +life & energy regen, and with the life regen it's easy to also top up anyone with blood rituals.
I can keep more casters going with BR than with BiP. Sure it doesn't give as much regen, but I'm able to constantly apply it on targets. With BiP I can use it twice, but if a stray attack comes my way I'm in trouble. Maybe it's just the groups I've been with when using BiP, where the monks weren't too generous with healing the guy slitting his wrists to give them their precious energy, but I found myself too low on health too often, and thus wasn't even able to use BiP when it was needed for fear of sacrificing myself to death.
The only reason I usually take WoP over WoB is for lack of a different elite to use in my build. I don't like BiP for the reasons mentioned above, and I figure WoP is helping the team more than OOB would.
WoP is also a nice group regen between fights too - everyone crowds around to get the +life & energy regen, and with the life regen it's easy to also top up anyone with blood rituals.
myword
hi, back when i played PvE, i never really needed a battery necro and found it more a luxury than a necessity
chances are you were playing with some monks that were lacking in umm 'monking skills/energy management' if they run out of energy even with BR on them
also, i personally prefer the BR/WoP selection to BiP
chances are you were playing with some monks that were lacking in umm 'monking skills/energy management' if they run out of energy even with BR on them
also, i personally prefer the BR/WoP selection to BiP
Sanji
When I did Blood is Power as a Blood Necro, I most assertively had Vampire spells to compensate for sacrifice spells.
When I did Blood is Power as a Death Necro, I would take Taste of Death when things got hairy. Not a bad choice since it combos well with Death Nova.
Blood is Power shouldn't be that dangerous to you as a Necro. Well of Power, however, CAN be dangerous to casters because it forces them to change their positioning. When a Healer is running to a corpse, he's not Healing, not to mention, if you're by a corpse, chances are, you're by a place that makes you more likely to take damage. Well of Power isn't worth it because it messes with positioning, which can be just as dangerous as a Necro who doesn't know how to pace Blood is Power.
When I did Blood is Power as a Death Necro, I would take Taste of Death when things got hairy. Not a bad choice since it combos well with Death Nova.
Blood is Power shouldn't be that dangerous to you as a Necro. Well of Power, however, CAN be dangerous to casters because it forces them to change their positioning. When a Healer is running to a corpse, he's not Healing, not to mention, if you're by a corpse, chances are, you're by a place that makes you more likely to take damage. Well of Power isn't worth it because it messes with positioning, which can be just as dangerous as a Necro who doesn't know how to pace Blood is Power.
Aracos79
Ok... no offense to anyone in particular, but if your goal is energy management and regeneration... how can ANYONE advocate Well of Power or Blood Ritual over Blood is Power? There is simply no comparison.
As myself and several others have mentioned, the Well puts you at a tactical disadvantage. Your monks/casters have to MOVE to the Well location, preventing them from healing/casting in the meantime AND reducing their proximity to the enemy. Furthermore, the energy regeneration is so minimal that it barely pays for itself (for the necro) and benefits others very little.
Blood Ritual is a decent "poor man's" BiP if you want to save your elite slot, but it also is much less effective. First of all energy regen is capped at 3 pips. BiP can go as high as 5 or 6. Second, Blood Ritual can only be cast at touch range, and has a much longer casting time. Meaning that you have to run to the target, and stand there for a few seconds while you cast. BiP is instant cast at the usual spell range. Finally, if you can't manage the health lost from BiP, you should rethink your profession choice. In PvE you shouldn't be drawing any aggro at all, and you should have some self heals to help compensate. You're already invested in Blood Magic so the Vampire spells are an obvious choice.
So I really don't see the need for an arguement here. Sure Well and Ritual are functional, but they are FAR from optimal. When it comes to necro energy recovery, Blood is Power is king... hands down.
As myself and several others have mentioned, the Well puts you at a tactical disadvantage. Your monks/casters have to MOVE to the Well location, preventing them from healing/casting in the meantime AND reducing their proximity to the enemy. Furthermore, the energy regeneration is so minimal that it barely pays for itself (for the necro) and benefits others very little.
Blood Ritual is a decent "poor man's" BiP if you want to save your elite slot, but it also is much less effective. First of all energy regen is capped at 3 pips. BiP can go as high as 5 or 6. Second, Blood Ritual can only be cast at touch range, and has a much longer casting time. Meaning that you have to run to the target, and stand there for a few seconds while you cast. BiP is instant cast at the usual spell range. Finally, if you can't manage the health lost from BiP, you should rethink your profession choice. In PvE you shouldn't be drawing any aggro at all, and you should have some self heals to help compensate. You're already invested in Blood Magic so the Vampire spells are an obvious choice.
So I really don't see the need for an arguement here. Sure Well and Ritual are functional, but they are FAR from optimal. When it comes to necro energy recovery, Blood is Power is king... hands down.
Ruvaen
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Originally Posted by seraphite86
You're damn right I do.
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Underappreciated classes need to stick together.
Sanji
The thing I don't like about Well of Power is that it's basically Well of Blood with +3 Energy regen tacked on. The problem is that you have to consider just how unsuited Well buffs are to casters.
In my opinion, Well of Blood's main and best fuction is helping out the tanks. The corpses should, in most cases, be were the tanks are, and ONLY the tanks are. The +3 Energy boost of Well of Power isn't enough to use your elite spot or justify casters to getting into the thick of it.
In my opinion, Well of Blood's main and best fuction is helping out the tanks. The corpses should, in most cases, be were the tanks are, and ONLY the tanks are. The +3 Energy boost of Well of Power isn't enough to use your elite spot or justify casters to getting into the thick of it.
Ruvaen
The reasons why a Mesmer chooses to pick up Necro as a second class is completely different from the reasons why someone would choose to be a primary Necro. Mesmers have a problem with healing and Necros happen to offer a wide range of skills that allow damage dealing in lieu with healing which is very good for energy management. And active energy management isn't all bad. While I wish my Mesmer could just suck up energy from the dying, I can instead bring a skill or two to completely shut down healers and casters trying to squeeze out important spells to get a little energy for myself. It's all about skills that serve multiple functions! XD At least for PVE
And active energy management isn't all bad. While I wish my Mesmer could just suck up energy from the dying, I can instead bring a skill or two to completely shut down healers and casters trying to squeeze out important spells to get a little energy for myself. It's all about skills that serve multiple functions! XD At least for PVE
Sanji
Oh, I agree, Ruvaen, Me/N is a fun combo.
However, my point is, if you want to play your Me/N more like a Necromancer than a Mesmer, you might as well just do a Necromancer to begin with. Fast Casting isn't good enough of an attribute. But, I've never been a fan of your secondary being more focused on than your primary.
However, my point is, if you want to play your Me/N more like a Necromancer than a Mesmer, you might as well just do a Necromancer to begin with. Fast Casting isn't good enough of an attribute. But, I've never been a fan of your secondary being more focused on than your primary.
Ruvaen
I would know, I've played around with minions. *sob*
Teufel Eldritch
To me Blood Ritual is a good energy skill for Necros that ARE NOT batteries. My Cursebearer almost always packed it.
Sanji
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
I would know, I've played around with minions. *sob*
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Not to mention 16 Death Magic makes those buggers sturdy enough to get their energy's worth.
PrincessKyra
I'm building my first necro. Sorry for the newb question... what Soul Reaping skills help with energy management?
Oh, nvm I think I figured it out... health management which feeds energy management skills maybe? Am I close?
Oh, nvm I think I figured it out... health management which feeds energy management skills maybe? Am I close?
Sanji
Soul Reaping is the only Attribute in the game that does not have a Skill linked to it. It is still worth investing in if you're at Death Necro, as your minions are counted, thus give you energy when they die.
PrincessKyra
Ooooh! So that's what those purple numbers meant... I get energy when my minions die!!! Duh...
Thanks so much for the info
Thanks so much for the info
Ruvaen
Sigh... if I didn't have all maxed out characters, I'd make a necro primary. >_<
Sanji
Hehe, I wouldn't know, I'm a character murderer without qualms. I deleted both a Warrior/Monk at Thunderhead and a Elementalist/Mesmer at Ring of Fire to make way for both my Monk and Necromancer.
In fact, the only primary I haven't Ascended with is Mesmer... *leers at his Ranger*
Nah. :P I'll wait and see if there are new Professions and more Character slots in the expansion.
In fact, the only primary I haven't Ascended with is Mesmer... *leers at his Ranger*
Nah. :P I'll wait and see if there are new Professions and more Character slots in the expansion.
bobrath
There are no skills in soul reaping (yet). You just gain a point in energy for each point in soul reaping for each death that occurs in a generous radius.
Edit: looks like I need to type faster!
Edit: looks like I need to type faster!
Aracos79
But there are collector items that give bonuses to Soul Reaping skills... go figure.
Sanji
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Originally Posted by Aracos79
But there are collector items that give bonuses to Soul Reaping skills... go figure.
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seraphite86
Ruvaen.
I have always had fun with a Mesmer in the group. There are always generic groups that consit of warriors, elementalists, and monks only. Now that's no fun. Most people don't notice the difference when a mesmer is at work and I find that very overlooked. Honestly, a mesmer makes PvE very amusing.
tigernz.
We have our own ways of playing. I only found Well of Power good in tight spaces. Some hallways in Sorrow's Furnace, for example, are perfect for a WoP. But in "large scale" bouts, WoP is almost useless. Also I'm sure I don't want to turn into a combat medic just to use Blood Ritual. If you like to risk your teammates running all over the place, that is ok. If Blood is Power is too heavy on you, bring a self heal spell. In my case, I use Troll Unguent, Soul Feast, and/or Consume Corpse =)
Sanji.
Dang, you're just like me. I've probably deleted 5 warriors because that class really bores me. The farthest I got one of them was to Yak's Bend, then I just deleted it for a PvP slot. Didn't even think twice about it.
I have always had fun with a Mesmer in the group. There are always generic groups that consit of warriors, elementalists, and monks only. Now that's no fun. Most people don't notice the difference when a mesmer is at work and I find that very overlooked. Honestly, a mesmer makes PvE very amusing.
tigernz.
We have our own ways of playing. I only found Well of Power good in tight spaces. Some hallways in Sorrow's Furnace, for example, are perfect for a WoP. But in "large scale" bouts, WoP is almost useless. Also I'm sure I don't want to turn into a combat medic just to use Blood Ritual. If you like to risk your teammates running all over the place, that is ok. If Blood is Power is too heavy on you, bring a self heal spell. In my case, I use Troll Unguent, Soul Feast, and/or Consume Corpse =)
Sanji.
Dang, you're just like me. I've probably deleted 5 warriors because that class really bores me. The farthest I got one of them was to Yak's Bend, then I just deleted it for a PvP slot. Didn't even think twice about it.
Ruvaen
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Originally Posted by seraphite86
Ruvaen.
I have always had fun with a Mesmer in the group. There are always generic groups that consit of warriors, elementalists, and monks only. Now that's no fun. Most people don't notice the difference when a mesmer is at work and I find that very overlooked. Honestly, a mesmer makes PvE very amusing. |
Incidentally, I LOVE IT when I come across an Mo/N because we can sit back together, BiP each other and cast like crazy people. XD