Don't Any Monks Know How to Play Anymore?

The original poster is right; many monks are very bad and are still worshipped because they are in high demand.

But the title of the thread is a broad generalization. Maybe you would have recieved more positive answers with a more... delicate title.

Thirsty River mission

R/W <=Our tank. Apparently she was our *Evasive* tank
N/E <=Blood
E/Me <= Geomancer/Interupter
R/N <=Curse/Marksmanship
E/Mo <=Not a healer Pyromancer
Mo/R <=Me *the only healer*
The necromancers never brought BiP or BR by the way.
(Note: I'm the type of person who will really pay close attention to the other player's avatars because I realised a long time ago that no one calls their statuses.)

R/W: Hey! How come you kno I have cripl or blind when I don'T call'em?
Me: I pay attention.
E/Me: lol
We went through the gate beat the first of the many bosses. I then realised....
Me:Hey! Am I the only monk? Are you healing E/Mo?
E/Mo: Nope I'm not healing at all...
N/E: Ya you're the only healer
Me: 0_0 OMG!
R/N: Don't worry you're doing a great job up to date!
Me: >.< Hope it doesn't get worst
The N/E in the group died twice. No one else died on my watch during this mission and we had absolutely no problems other than that.
End of mission:
R/W: Woah great job everyone!
N/E: Yeah great job!
E/Mo: Especially the healer!
R/N: I second that!
Me: =^_^= <--Giddy with joy!
R/W:lol
R/W: Hahaha Nice face!
E/Me: Seriously man you where awesome, makes me want to make a monk.
Me: XD
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It all depends on the monk you get in your group. Some of em are good, some of em are bad, some of em are professionals (Like me! )
It doesn't matter what kind of armor, weapon or skills you have. It's all about energy efficiency and paying attention to your surroundings. Someone could of had much better items, attribute distribution or FoW armor and not have done a better job that I did.

Attribute distribution:
Heal 14
Prot 10
Div 11
The skills I used:
OrisonH., H.Breeze, H.Seed, H. party, Mend ailment, Aegis, H.Boon, Res
I was wielding a:
Hale holy staff of enchanting
Fire:10-19 req6Div,+22Hlth, castspeed(10%), Enchantments(20%)

When I invite a player to a team for PvE, I expect them to be smart enough to bring the necessecites.

Monks should always have hex removal or condition removal (or both).

Did you notice cooldowns on Hex Removals? They're way too long to bother in mass hexes areas. Once per 7 seconds? By that time, the hex will expire on it's own.

So there is less pressure on the monks.

In your opinion

And if you just expect people to bring what YOU think they should bring, rather than comunicate with them prepare to be dissapointed.


Edit for poor spelling.

I lost my gold star

I was in a somewhat similar situation once in a titan quest. I was one of 4 monks, with 2 warriors and 2 eleys.
Because there were so many monks (I got picked up last) I just said, "Im smiting" and assumed that the other monks would be doing all the other stuff.
I brought mend ailment and RoF to trigger zeolats fire and smite hex.
I was the only one removing conditions and hexes.
Soooo we lost.

My fault? maybe, whatever. The other monks fault? maybe, whatever.
Fault is a crappy disposition. Taking responsablity is where we need to end up though. And thats what we did.
I asked, "ok, we have a prot monk between the four of us?"
No one was, but everyone wanted to try it. We decided on one and went off.
With new offensive/defencive corrdiation stradigys no one died.
Quest accomplished.
Dang, we should have done that in the first place.

But just like OP, we all assumed stuff, and we were all wrong.
Whether or not you brought your own means of survival is irralivant. (and I dont blame you,...four monks...Id been the same way on a grab and go)
Your failure, like ours, was in the lack of communication/corridation.

Side note, blind warrior is a danger to the team. Its like a dazed eley.
If your team isnt putting out damage, its taking damage longer and therefor causing monks to deplete energy...etc, etc.

Warriors can be meatshields, but if we are going to pigeon hole them into that, lets pigeon hole monks into nothing but healers too.
Warriors are knockdown specialist, steady damage dealers, and heavy spikers, killing your foes quickly...if you take care of them.
They cant do it all by themselves with just 8 skills across a few attributes.

I always ask what people would like me to bring and I make decision afterwards.

If people are selfish and want me to bring stuff to cast on them specifically I refuse.

But I really do enjoy it much more when someone *asks* me if i'm prot/heal, if I'm bringing this or that. It is my pleasure to answer them because they'll know I'm prepared.

I agree with you, Rico. When I'm playing my (heal) monk I always have condition and hex removal, and STILL have more than enough heal power. I run Mend Condition, as I'm very rarely in the line of fire and it helps me keep my healing ability strong. There are 3 choices for hex removal, one is always on the bar.

Personally, I'd prefer it if warriors didn't bring hex/condition removal in 95% of the quests/missions. Their job is to smack the mobs and keep the agro, mine is to keep the warrior in condition to do so. If the war is doing their job properly, and has the agro, then they'll be getting hit with any interrupts that are out there and not able to cast. At least, that's my take on it.

There really is no excuse to not bring it, but I have also been noticing this trend in pve monks lately. Not too big of an issue for me, but I do make a point of leaving any conditions/hexes on the other monk if they get them...hopefully they'll get it.

He isn't blaming everything on the monks, just making a point about them bringing condition/hex removal. Only a s*&t monk gets offended when people say ANYTHING bad about ANY monk. If the tank is blinded, snared (cripple, imagined burden, etc), then they cannot keep the agro because they cannot hit/get to the mobs. Healing isn't that tough, I've beaten every mission and 90% of the quests with condition and hex removal on my bar as a heal monk, and not felt the need for any more healing than I already have (5 heals, condition/hex removal, rez).

Edit; Great post, Goonter, I like what you said there.

/quoted for truth

Seriously, I got tired of being in a PUG without a good monk, i play better with casters, so i built me a monk, and a damn good one. I dont run condition removal in my build as i find that as soo nas its removed, BAM!!! its right back on you. Hex removal i normally run inspired hex for energy management also. A healers job is to heal you, not protect you..... hmm prot monk anyone? Each char has a specific build and a specific role.

Why ask someone to change there whole skillset and build that they have put together that has worked to get them to that point, when you arent willing to change yours? Your char is your own responsibility. if you dont like the PUG monks, take the hench. with any other char but my monk i find they are better than most human players anyway. but note that not al lthe time when you have a condition or hex with hench thats its instantly removed, imagine that.....

Indeed.

It would be nice if someone asked me just once if im prot or heal. So now ive gotten into the habit of saying first thing, "Hello, im pure heal". And im always prepared to try what people ask of me if they can give me a good reason.

If i hear any of this "OMG take this spell noob", I just leave (i can be thick skinned but i dont see any reason to stay with people like this, there always the type to rush rush rush aggro die).

Not bothered to read all the posts that try to prove themselves right.

Why bother with PUGs when you can just play with henchmen? Seriously it's so much easier

If someone playing another profession other than your own has anything to say about you skill selection he can just take his own Monk take his G*dam skill and put it where the Sun don't shine.

From looking at the majority of the opinions - (bring your own condition/hex removal noob) - I'm sure as hell glad that I will never have to have you guys as a monk in my team while entering Tombs or GvG.

I suppose the same people who argue that all other classes should bring hex/condition removal should argue that all support characters should bring their own form of damage as well? And no, wands don't count.

Of course the team leader should always ensure that people are bringing what they are supposed to, and to ensure they aren't bringing dross and trash like healing breeze. Sheesh.

its all about PVE innit.

muppet

Most monks do suck. Period.

Its funny when someone says that monks are bad people jump to thier defense. But when people talk about warriors its all fun and games.

a pve monk and a pvp monk are 2 completely different animals

hmm, you were in a group and you didnt discuss this before the mission? sounds like the whole party was noob.

As a monk, i usually dont do missions with people that dont communicate what they need before a mission.

Also you cannot expect a healing monk to automatically bring any condition removal, condition removal after all is under protection, not healing.

Hex removal is slow, usually monks will reserve it for themselves to take off any backfire/soul leech etc that comes their way. Best counter for spiteful is to not attack for a little while.

If it is someone’s first time through a mission, they may not know what to expect. When we head through Iron Mines or something, I’ll just throw it out there, there are a lot of knockdowns in the beginning. Perhaps a warrior decides some balanced stance is in order. Perhaps not. Either way, you cannot dictate how other people play, you just need BASIC communication. If you have intelligence about a mission, please share ahead of time; even if you are not party leader, you can be tactful and helpful. It is not that difficult.

My Heal/Prot Mo/Me will take inspired hex instead of remove/smite because, even with a 1 in inspiration magic, it is practically free to cast. But if you get more than one hex in a short period of time then you’re S.O.L., so sorry. Mend Ailment… I’ll not really use it unless it’s big-time poison or blind. (For the record, my W/Mo packs mend ailment, her only monk spell besides rez, for those times when I’m blind and the monk is busy enough keeping me/others alive.)

I will agree, there are indeed some sucky monks out there. But consider since there was no communication AT ALL before your mission began, no one can be blamed but all of you. You could have said nicely, “Hey, there’s lotsa hexing going on in this one”—or the monks could have huddled together and each assigned one other character to take care of. If word one had been spoken/typed before entering mission, you might have had a successful run. Don’t blame bad monks as much as blame all the bad, quietly bitter players who don’t speak up ahead of time.

Condition removal I'll bring if I'm playing protection, and only then. I get zero healing from mend ailment/condition as a healing monk with no points in protection, and most conditions have a way of getting reapplied almost instantly in PvE anyway. I'm not going to waste all my energy removing conditions from someone when I know it's going to get reapplied seconds later through stuff like melandru's arrows, apply poison, etc.

Hex removal? Yeah, if I know I'm entering an area that has dangerous enough hexes to be worth it. Usually that means spiteful spirit, and little else. Otherwise hex removal carries a much too long recharge period, which makes it unreliable most of the time and generally not worth bringing because the hexes will expire by themselves.

Oh, and there is such a thing as bringing your own. Smart warriors carry hex removal for FoW and the like. Between a slot for rebirth and a couple more slots for energy management, my monk could probably bring either condition or hex removal if the area warrants it, but definitely not both. Monks are no more miracle workers than you are.


ManaCraft

I know someone else posted it but this has nothing to do with PvP. If conditions killed you in this game then it might be worth bringing a fix but they don't. The only time they're even a threat is when some moron stands in a pool of poison instead of pulling a mob to dry land.

Even the worst bleeding or poison in the whole game doesn't noticeably drain a monks energy pool let alone kill them. Blaming the monk for that is plain stupid, and if you're blaming him because you're blinded or crippled, well that's stupid and selfish, wait the five seconds before you hit your flurry button again.

If you can't beat this game in PvE in your sleep it's time to go back to board games, and the people that complain about their unskilled team mates are the worst part of a boring, boring PVE game.

No offense to non-complainers intended.

Let's just put it this way, I've never seen chat flooded with multiple groups desperately seeking Warriors. Let's leave professions aside and break this down to roles.

Healing is needed, no matter it be self-heals or heals from a support character. Monks are the most efficient healers.

As for Warrior's common roles in a party.

1) Tanking is helpful, but it doesn't make or break a party in most situations. It's also nonexistant in PvP thanks to Warriors being an undesirable target.

2) A Warrior specced for Melee damage can pretty much be suplemented by any other damage class.

3) A Warrior whose playstyle doesn't really fall under #1 or #2 as much as "Rush in like a jackass and agro anything" is better left behind in the outpost.

Most Warriors are #3.

In a team my monk is healer, but never ever I use condition removers. And for missions it always works fine, unless of course the warrior just runs ahead and gets out of the healing range... In which case I wont follow. I actually don't understand the problem of the OP: the infusion quest is one of the most easy quests to do. Even with a party of henchmen its no problem. I suggest every warrior to bring a condtion remover in his 2nd profession and let the monk just heal. And thats hard enough with the horrible quality of pug parties these days...

Being blinded or crippled even in PvE is extremely debilitating, and being dazed just makes casting impossible. All of which are reasons to bring a bit of condition removal.

This is absolutely correct. This discussion is about PvE monks, not PvP.

what do rangers have for condition and hex removal?

Bout the topic...
I don`t know, but you should have pointed out at the monk if (s)he has some 'weakness' in their build. Just as a monk should point out that another character has weaknesses in their build. If they don`t listen, thats too bad, but not listening will probably mean that they know what they do right?
And I can`t imagine that those no of those 4 monks would have listened to u.

In most PVE situations, if you notice someone's health bar is suffering from hexes/conditions (or straight damage even), it's usually a safer bet to cast one or two "bandaid" spells such as healing breeze, seed, healing hands, etc on them and keep a close eye on them until they're out of trouble. Otherwise what happens is you keep having to recast word of healing/orison/condition/hex removal spells just to see the health bar keep going up and down or the hexes/conditions keep coming back and others start getting deprived of healing because the monk just ran out of energy. "Bandaid" spells buys the healer time and helps them conserve energy and while it may be inconvenient when conditions and hexes are abundant, it's a conservative build strategy that will usually help keep a group afloat. From time to time I see people that die very rapidly because they refused to bring any defensive skills and proceed to blame me (and sometimes the other monk when present) for letting them die; with some merit perhaps. Often times they just die so rapidly under focus fire that I can't even squeeze out a word of healing before they go down. But if I realize that the person dies too rapidly even under the effects of "bandaid" spells, they automatically become the lowest priority for healing. Why? So I don't waste my energy on the weakest link and potentially compromise the rest of the group. So everyone... please be prepared to wipe your own arse because the monk isn't obligated to do so for you.

This could well be a lengthy post.

I'd like to point out that Hex removal spells have a painfully long cast time. do you want your monk to take that much time out removing hexes? in high end PvE or any PvP that hex that i just wasted a second removing will be applied to two more people in that time. removing those hexes is more trouble than its worth.
I find that using Kiss i much more effective than removing hexes. make the hexes work for you.
when someone has 3 warriors pounding on them or lots of rangers targetting them removing the conditions is not a priority. breeze negates those conditions and any other that may be applied. maybe i'll use mend condition as a nice cheap heal when people have loads of conditions on them but conditions are not THAT crippling for most characters. Condition removal is not amazingly important.
Now thats just not fair Thecrusader. no class deserves the unwarrented hate that comes thier way. some people are crap. not some classes. those crap people are not only confined to Monks, or warriors. I like warriors as much as monks.
really and trully i don't want to forfeit the healing power i can gain from those 4 slots you describe. Remove Hex, Mend Ailment, Holy Veil, Healing Seed. i presume you will include a res in there and an energy management spell. that gives you a massive 2 whole slots for healiing spells. Orison you have commented on and i will presume Word of Healing.
Holy Veil is, IMO, worthless. doubles hex cast time? uhh considering that many of the hexes i encounter frequently are 1/4 of a second cast times that is a complete waste. and you can only protect ONE person from them. and you lose a regen pip.
personally i go for all the 5 energy spells i can find. (orison, kiss, word and such). rather than some worthless hex breaker wannabe. tell me: how is Holy Veil better than Divine Boon?
there is no way in hell that your monk could keep up with the healng needed in high lvl areas. anywhere that hex removal is needed is also somewhere that enchantments like Seed are totally self destructive. you could, of course, say the same of breeze but breeze is cheaper AND can be recast quickly.
Breeze is much more energy efficient than continual condition removal. In terms of both time and energy. hex removal is so horribly time consuming that i gave up on it long long ago. Martyr is a nice efficient condition remover (along with purge). but it uses an elite and all those conditions will be back in full force in a matter of seconds.
Trying to remove all the hexes and conditions AND heal is a losing battle. sure bring a way to get rid of Dazed but that is the only really dangerous condition out there. hexes? rely on a mesmer for that, i would (and yes i DO have plenty of time as a mesmer).
i would not like to have you as my monk. when you have been the only monk in a team that totally cleared every mob in that condition and hex infested place called Sorrows Furnace THEN you can tell me how to deal with conditions and hexes.

hmmm. not as long as i had maybe expected.

Rangers have Antidote Signet. It's not the most efficient solution, but it is something you can use yourself and not rely on someone else. I tend to bring it on my W/R when I do PvE, mostly to eliminate blindness. Rangers also have access to Melandru's Resilience. Not the best elite ever, but if you've been stacked with multiple hexes and conditions (works nicely in Sorrow's) it can give you a boost to keep going.

When I still played my healer Monk I considered it my job, not anyones else's, to make sure I brought along hex/condition removal. If someone else brought some cool. If they didn't no biggie as it was MY JOB to carry them.

There is no part of the game that states that it is a Profession's job to play a certain way. In fact, Guild Wars specifically gives you different ways to play a Profession including Attribute Lines and Secondary Professions. Sure, this can result in people playing the game that some people don't understand. That doesn't make it wrong and it doesn't mean they don't know how to play the game.

Because there are many different ways to play your Profession, some may not bring certain skills because they don't know better. Some, like Charcoal Ann, do know better and might not bring them because they have personally found them to be inefficient in some cases. It is not a simple matter of deciding that a player is bad because they play differently.

To point out a pattern of behavior you don't like is one thing, to do so with the presumption that it is "your job" to play a certain one is preposterous. This is a case of lack of communication and the fact PvE isn't really much in the way of teaching you how to play the game.

So, yeah, if you're playing in Pick up Groups, it is just as much your fault as the other player's. Warrior/Monk is one of the most popular combinations for a reason, it's self-sufficience is greatly appreciated in the party and it has the capacity to deal with one of Warrior's greatest weaknesses, being rendered nearly worthless by a condition.

The original poster specifically chose to deviate from that by playing War/Me. Because of this "creativity", he suffers from a Monk likewise doing something different than expected. The reason I avoid Pick up Groups is because there is so much expectations, a complete lack of communication, and a lack of understanding of different playstyles.

With that off my chest, I'm out. This thread started out as a belligerent rant thread and I can only imagine it ending as a belligerent rant thread.

Yes I know there is no where in the game that specifically states that a Monk must carry hex/condition removal. Yes I know professions can be played in many ways. Not once in my post did I point out something I did not like. All I said was...when I still played Monk I(as in me, myself & I) considered it my job. Not once did I mention Wa/Mos.

I think in PvE Healing Breeze is a worthy skill. In few instances is it worth anything in PvP. But even in pve...

Not every condition and Hex can be removed all the time and nether should it be considered to be. But some conditions and hexes are high priorty.
Soothing Images or Pacifism, Weakness or Blind on warriors.
Malaise or Migraine, Daze and cripple on casters (espcally monks)
Just to name a few. Depending the situation, some hexes/condidtions are best removed instead of ingoring there effects.

Oh... and I guess it is possible to remove all/most hexes and conditions on one target with reasonable time. A heal build I like to use..

Holy Veil/Comtemplation of Purity/Mantra of Recall/DivineBoon...

Remove 4 hexes and 3 conditions while gaining 240 health and 20 energy.
If you can reduce your healing to 3 skills..maybe orison, seed and dwaynas kiss, you can stay free of hexes and conditions and heal the team with plenty of energy to spare. (pve)
Let a prot monk take care of the rest.

If your the sole monk make sure everyone takes at least one selfheal and bring Mend Condition, RoF, Protective Spirit.

In missions that are not overly aggro centric this is often sefichant.

...thats a sidenote..
I think we all understand givin the discussion, or should come to the understanding that - If you want to do well communicate/corridanate.

Anything outside of this is a recipe for disastor. Even 4 healing monks cant save you.

Whatever,

Any way you look at it there are no missions that require condition, or hex removal in this game. I think you must be thinking of a different game. PvP yes, PvE no.

I did the exact mission he's talking about with me as a monk and 1 other warrior, no hench. We were just going to do the infusion run but decided to continue on. The warrior is an awesome PvE warrior but still.

Lay blame wherever you want but with four monks in the group the OP didn't lose because of a lack of condition curing ability.

I'm not the greatest monk around, I know at least one other guy that puts me to shame but it's not that hard and blaming the monks in the infusion run for not having a condition and hex cure is just another way to not take responsibility.

I bring kiss all the time with my monk. But it doesn't have the same effect as removing a hex, since many hexes don't do damage.

Unless you're playing as a warrior, ranger (blind, weakness), or monk (daze, cripple)

Holy veil has been given a serious upgrade. Its energy cost has been reduced to 5, and it now removes on hex when the enchantment is removed. Since it has a 1/4 casting time, this max it the best hex remover in the game. Just hit it on a hexed target, then remove the enchantment right away. It might cost you 6-7 energy instead of 5, but you can drop a hex instantly. For the record, I run healing touch, orison, kiss, seed, mend ailment, holy veil, offering of blood, and either heal other, res or divine boon depending on the situation, and have never had any problems with it.

If you are bringing a way to get rid of dazed, you might as well use it to get rid of other conditions too (there are only two skills that use daze anyway). And remember that blind is worse than daze for a warrior or ranger. The idea is not to clear all conditions/hexes, the idea is to MANAGE conditions/hexes, not completely ignore them, as some monks seem to. When it comes to breeze, well, aside from the fact that is one of the least efficient ways to heal someone (do a search for "Healing Efficiency and Divine Favor"), it is also an enchantment, meaning that a very happy monster could turn your 232 points of breeze into 100 points of damage with a shatter enchantment. And monsters *love* that spell.

Rico

Actually breeze isnt that inefficient, its a bit less than orison in total healing power, but its duration can be increased as it is an enchant. Many monks use the yakslapper, even if you use healing prayers the mods are quite nice, the +20% duration makes breeze very useful. As for shatter enchant- mobs usually use it at the beginning of a fight when you shouldnt be needing to use breeze anyway. Shatter does have a slow recharge and if you live in that much fear of it, you would need to ask everyone to avoid using enchants. Not that viable an option. Personally, I would rather lose a breeze than an enchant with much longer recharge time.

Personally I think that breeze has its place and counteracting poison and bleeding is one such place for it.

Personally, I always take a condition removal, but can't remember the last time I took a hex removal in PvE, if simply because most of the hexes you encounter are pointless (i.e. the mesmers love to cast empathy on my monk), and can easily be worked around. Things like blind, dazed, bleeding, etc. need to get taken care of, however (I hate degen).

I only read like the first page.

First off: sure one of the monks shoulda brought condition removal of some kind.

Second: any player who thinks that just coz they're not a monk they shouldn't take healing needs their head examined. As a ranger there is no way i'll go without Troll Unguent. I have it maxed at 10 health regen. NO condition can counter that. I'm bleeding? Health goes up. Poisoned? Health goes up. Why do I take it? No matter how good your monk (or 2, or 3) are, there are gonna come points when they are out of energy/too busy with tanks/dead when you have to help yourself. Seriously, taking no heal is like not taking res signet "because thats the monks job".

Thats the problem. Many classes can do 'everything', just not as well as the one designed for it. Even if you aren't needing healing sig, if you can take it along, a monk is gonna thank you for it. Not taking any healing is just asking for death.

Mend Ailment is 5 energy and removes the condition. HB is ten energy and not only doesnt remove the condition but it will be less effective too. Now it seems you don't play a monk or you won't have said hb is more efficient then mend ailment which is not.

Perhaps it has uses for pve, but mend ailment is and will always be more efficient then hb IF dealing with conditions.

Normally any monk who knows what they are doing and running prot will take mend ailment most of the time over most of the other condition removal... but not always this is the case though.