Me/N Energy Denial/Degen build
Fast Casting 8
Domination 10
Inspiration 12
Curses 10
1. Enfeeble
2. Faintheartedness
3. Power Leak
4. Power Drain
5. Wither {E}
6. Ether Feast
7. Ether Lord
8. Res Sig
Warriors/rangers who bring the hate get a nice dose of Enfeeble + Faintheartedness. The caster of my choosing gets Wither'ed, and Power Leak'ed. If I get low on energy, I have the options of either babysitting and Power Draining, or Ether Lord to give me a +3 energy regen and my target -3 for 9 seconds. If I time it right, I can Wither and Power Leak someone down to zero energy, then hit them with Ether Lord and turn my attention to someone else for Wither. Wither and Faintheartedness together on a target give -4 health degen and -2 energy degen, and if I manage to tack on Ether Lord that's -4/-5.
I just made this up tonight, still working out the kinks. It can't kill anything, but it can sure slow/weaken a warrior, throw a wrench in a caster's plans, and with 12 in Inspiration and Ether Feast, even heal itself a bit. I'd like to throw some health regen/degen like Life Siphon in somewhere for some added kick, but I don't know what to reduce as far as attributes and what to replace for the skill.
Playing games with my and other people's energy is fun! Comments and suggestions, as always, are welcome.
Me/N Energy Degen
Shwitz
NatalieD
You know Wither ends if the victim has 0 energy, right? You're undermining your own elite with that build...
Rico Carridan
I ran into a Korean team who ran a couple builds similar to this. Soon as they got in range, half our casters got hit with 29 seconds of 4 pip energy degen (they used malaise instead of power leak though). You're better off not having your target run out of energy, by the way, since it will disable your spells; ideally, you want to get them to 1-4 energy, so they can do nothing until your spells expire.
Counters to worry about:
1) Wand swap. If player is carrying a +15 energy -1 wand, they can clear your hexes very quickly. They still go to zero, but they don't stay here.
2) Remove hex. You should bring a nice, long lasting cover hex for this build. The team I played against used parasitic bond to cover. That way, if you want to remove the hex, you first have to get rid of a worthless hex like parasitic, before you can start getting rid of wither.
3) Energy management. Some players just won't care that they have 4 pips of degen, because their build is good enough that they can keep their energy going without it.
Rico
Counters to worry about:
1) Wand swap. If player is carrying a +15 energy -1 wand, they can clear your hexes very quickly. They still go to zero, but they don't stay here.
2) Remove hex. You should bring a nice, long lasting cover hex for this build. The team I played against used parasitic bond to cover. That way, if you want to remove the hex, you first have to get rid of a worthless hex like parasitic, before you can start getting rid of wither.
3) Energy management. Some players just won't care that they have 4 pips of degen, because their build is good enough that they can keep their energy going without it.
Rico
lilith000
Usually attacking their energy directly with spells like energy burn is better than energy degen. The only advantage to energy degen is the lock down where they cannot cast anything and is at 0 regen. I have to say, using -1 focus to counter the problem of 0 regen is quite novel, and it is unlikely any would have this.
tafy69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilith000
Usually attacking their energy directly with spells like energy burn is better than energy degen. The only advantage to energy degen is the lock down where they cannot cast anything and is at 0 regen. I have to say, using -1 focus to counter the problem of 0 regen is quite novel, and it is unlikely any would have this.
No the way it works is like this:
Caster has 3 energy and 0 regen because of them annoying necro Malaise and wither
Caster Swaps too no weapon and loses 10 energy from staff bonus, making 0 energy and thus losing both hexes, swap back to staff and your good to go again.
Caster has 3 energy and 0 regen because of them annoying necro Malaise and wither
Caster Swaps too no weapon and loses 10 energy from staff bonus, making 0 energy and thus losing both hexes, swap back to staff and your good to go again.
Sister Rosette
Malaise is a good alternative to Wither, use the elite spot for Energy Drain
or something.
or something.
Xasew
Panic>Wither, but I guess that's just me.
Shwitz
NatalieD: I know that Wither ends when the target's energy reaches zero. That's one of those "kinks" I need to work out.
Rico Carridan: Thank you for your input. When I first threw skills onto my skill bar, I used Parasitic Bond as a cover hex and didn't have Ether Feast. Since I play mostly in the Competition Arenas, hex removal isn't too prevalent, so I got away without a cover hex for the most part. If I were to replace Power Leak with Malaise, though, how would I counter the degen on myself? Blood magic - Life Siphon?
Sister Rosette: Energy Drain's recharge is burdensome now, and I don't really have an energy problem with this build. Power Drain and Ether Lord gained energy back for me pretty well. It also does not take away that much energy anymore, which is a reason I avoided using it. I will look into how it could benefit me though.
Xasew: Panic would be good to use in an 8 person situation when there's more of a chance of people bunching together. For a 4-per-team arena, Panic usually catches 1, maybe 2 people, and costs me 25 energy. Wither is a much more useful spell when targetting single enemies.
Rico Carridan: Thank you for your input. When I first threw skills onto my skill bar, I used Parasitic Bond as a cover hex and didn't have Ether Feast. Since I play mostly in the Competition Arenas, hex removal isn't too prevalent, so I got away without a cover hex for the most part. If I were to replace Power Leak with Malaise, though, how would I counter the degen on myself? Blood magic - Life Siphon?
Sister Rosette: Energy Drain's recharge is burdensome now, and I don't really have an energy problem with this build. Power Drain and Ether Lord gained energy back for me pretty well. It also does not take away that much energy anymore, which is a reason I avoided using it. I will look into how it could benefit me though.
Xasew: Panic would be good to use in an 8 person situation when there's more of a chance of people bunching together. For a 4-per-team arena, Panic usually catches 1, maybe 2 people, and costs me 25 energy. Wither is a much more useful spell when targetting single enemies.
Ishamael Sedai
Although wither is good & useful, the ability to swap weapons to end the energy degen would make me only want to take malaise & use my elite on something else.
Yukito Kunisaki
I tried such an idea using a W/N using a combo of Wither and Malaise. It didn't go to well at all with the gurus here due to 3 problems.
Their energy hits 0. Blah for both my main attack spells.
You WANT their energy to hit 0. It's an energy denial build right?
Weapon swap. They can get to 0 faster now. Gay...
If you're going to deny energy, I'd say to go the combo of Domination + Inspiration.
Energy Burn, Energy Surge/Drain {E}, Arcane Echo, Energy Tap is THE first half of your skill bar to tear casters in half with.
Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Plague Touch, Rend Enchantments would be your other half.
There. Now you can turn casters to dust using your mesmer half, and make non-casters useless using your necro half. High efficiency is your friend.
10+1+1 Domination
9+1 Inspiration
7+1 Fast Casting
10 Curses
Their energy hits 0. Blah for both my main attack spells.
You WANT their energy to hit 0. It's an energy denial build right?
Weapon swap. They can get to 0 faster now. Gay...
If you're going to deny energy, I'd say to go the combo of Domination + Inspiration.
Energy Burn, Energy Surge/Drain {E}, Arcane Echo, Energy Tap is THE first half of your skill bar to tear casters in half with.
Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, Plague Touch, Rend Enchantments would be your other half.
There. Now you can turn casters to dust using your mesmer half, and make non-casters useless using your necro half. High efficiency is your friend.
10+1+1 Domination
9+1 Inspiration
7+1 Fast Casting
10 Curses
Shwitz
In fact, I've been toying with a build similar to that at other times Yukito 
Was using Drain Enchantment instead of Rend though for the energy kickback. I'll see how I do as far as energy with Rend though. Thanks for the suggestions!
Was using Drain Enchantment instead of Rend though for the energy kickback. I'll see how I do as far as energy with Rend though. Thanks for the suggestions!
smurfhunter
for real energy denial, you need:
energy surge
energy burn
sigent of weariness
and then some extras like:
shame
power leak
mind wrack
cry of frustration
etc
the inspiration skills now suck horribly for edenial, theyre only good for regening it yourself, and even that isnt too great with the recharge times. energy tap is total garbage fyi.
i find that echoing energy surge isnt worth it, but w/e
energy surge
energy burn
sigent of weariness
and then some extras like:
shame
power leak
mind wrack
cry of frustration
etc
the inspiration skills now suck horribly for edenial, theyre only good for regening it yourself, and even that isnt too great with the recharge times. energy tap is total garbage fyi.
i find that echoing energy surge isnt worth it, but w/e
rii
I once ran into a monk, who decided the best way to get rid of malaise was to change focus. So i spammed it on him and another guy, and neither of them got of a spell, since they spent all their time whiching weapons. (and i interrupted their occasional orison) (mantra of recovery/malaise/fast casting ftw -.-) If you have a big enough energy engine it can piss people off no end, just watch the hands :S
Its got a 2 sec cooldown for a reason... most people i meet just cast it once and consider the enemy done. Obvioulsy not true.
And inspiration is great e denial. Shackles ftw... a warrior with no energy is a warrior with no ias, speed buff, hard res, or energy skills..... same with ranger.
Its got a 2 sec cooldown for a reason... most people i meet just cast it once and consider the enemy done. Obvioulsy not true.
And inspiration is great e denial. Shackles ftw... a warrior with no energy is a warrior with no ias, speed buff, hard res, or energy skills..... same with ranger.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by rii
And inspiration is great e denial. Shackles ftw... a warrior with no energy is a warrior with no ias, speed buff, hard res, or energy skills..... same with ranger.
standard edenial is supposed to edenial monks and casters, not warriors and rangers. i have yet to see a monk dumb enough to start wanding with spirit shackles on 
rii
yes, well done, monks dont wand (well actually...
)
and no, energy denial is important on all of the enemy members. Although due to expertise and adrenaline, its sometimes overlooked/ignored... but it makes a difference.
)and no, energy denial is important on all of the enemy members. Although due to expertise and adrenaline, its sometimes overlooked/ignored... but it makes a difference.
Shwitz
I got bored with trying to make this work and went back to my tried and true Energy Burn/Surge build...
Me/N
Fast Casting 8
Domination 14
Inspiration 10
Curses 10
1. Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood
2. Faintheartedness/Shadow of Fear
3. Power Leak
4. Power Drain
5. Energy Surge {E}
6. Energy Burn
7. Mind Wrack/Signet of Weariness
8. Res Sig
Its what I was using right after the Energy Drain/Tap change, for the most part, and very similar to what Yukito suggested. I originally had no necro skills and was using Spirit of Failure + Distortion to avoid ranger/warrior attacks. Enfeeble + an attack speed de-buff works well... I'd like to mix in Ether Lord and/or something else from Curses though... I tend to cast myself out of energy with my frequent use of Burn/Surge, so Ether Lord would allow me to regain energy while denying the enemy regen while I switch targets.
Me/N
Fast Casting 8
Domination 14
Inspiration 10
Curses 10
1. Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood
2. Faintheartedness/Shadow of Fear
3. Power Leak
4. Power Drain
5. Energy Surge {E}
6. Energy Burn
7. Mind Wrack/Signet of Weariness
8. Res Sig
Its what I was using right after the Energy Drain/Tap change, for the most part, and very similar to what Yukito suggested. I originally had no necro skills and was using Spirit of Failure + Distortion to avoid ranger/warrior attacks. Enfeeble + an attack speed de-buff works well... I'd like to mix in Ether Lord and/or something else from Curses though... I tend to cast myself out of energy with my frequent use of Burn/Surge, so Ether Lord would allow me to regain energy while denying the enemy regen while I switch targets.
tafy69
Panic + Signet of weariness + ether lord
and QZ on the team ranger
then u got good edenial build for tombs
and QZ on the team ranger
then u got good edenial build for tombs
rii
qz echo sq debil shot still is the best in the field for single target nuking.
Eonwe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Rosette
Malaise is a good alternative to Wither, use the elite spot for Energy Drain
or something. Malaise, wither, and energy drain are all equally terrible. Before Energy Drain recieved a nerf I'd say sure, take out Wither because no one in their right mind should ever use that skill (same goes to say for malaise) and put energy drain in there. However, with the new energy drain it is hardly worth the elite slot, especially if all you want to do is play energy denial.
To elaborate a bit, if some of you don't understand, the reason that wither/malaise are terrible is because focus swapping exists. The way to beat any kind of energy denial is focus swapping, ofcourse. However, when we look at whither and malaise we see that they both end when the target foe reaches 0 energy. So, let's say that I'm playing monk, and I get hit with wither. At the time the hex was cast I had 20 energy, and I had my +10 energy staff equipped. So I go ahead and cast heal other, so now I'm at 10 energy. I switch to an empty focus slot, reach 0 energy, and wither drops off. I then switch back to my staff, and have 10 energy. So the person just basically wasted 10 energy to get me to focus swap, and at the expense of his elite. On a side note, this is why people buy negative energy weapons, so that if they are ever hit with wither/malaise, they can just switch to their -5 energy focus set, and drop them off even faster.
or something. Malaise, wither, and energy drain are all equally terrible. Before Energy Drain recieved a nerf I'd say sure, take out Wither because no one in their right mind should ever use that skill (same goes to say for malaise) and put energy drain in there. However, with the new energy drain it is hardly worth the elite slot, especially if all you want to do is play energy denial.
To elaborate a bit, if some of you don't understand, the reason that wither/malaise are terrible is because focus swapping exists. The way to beat any kind of energy denial is focus swapping, ofcourse. However, when we look at whither and malaise we see that they both end when the target foe reaches 0 energy. So, let's say that I'm playing monk, and I get hit with wither. At the time the hex was cast I had 20 energy, and I had my +10 energy staff equipped. So I go ahead and cast heal other, so now I'm at 10 energy. I switch to an empty focus slot, reach 0 energy, and wither drops off. I then switch back to my staff, and have 10 energy. So the person just basically wasted 10 energy to get me to focus swap, and at the expense of his elite. On a side note, this is why people buy negative energy weapons, so that if they are ever hit with wither/malaise, they can just switch to their -5 energy focus set, and drop them off even faster.
smurfhunter
...but malaise is super spammable. thats the whole point of the spell. duuh you focus swap, but it can be effective of you just malaise everyone in sight and then keep doing it. kind of like diversion spamming before it got nerfed.
idk ive seen a few people use it really effectively.. but yes wither is just not worth the elite
idk ive seen a few people use it really effectively.. but yes wither is just not worth the elite
Eonwe
Flare is spammable. Does that make it good? I've never seen it used effectively, atleast against us. If someone wants to spend their time throwing malaise onto everyone, go right ahead, that's one less person to worry about.
smurfhunter
well hows this for malaise combo; mindwrack + malaise + energy surge/burn etc
the idea is you dont need any curses, or at most like 3-4 (since malaise wont last long on a decent player) and you can pump the rest into domination. then you can force them to kill themselves with mindwrack, or just kind of sit there with crappy energy.
only problems i see with this is that you are going to run into MASSIVE energy problems since malaise is *5* energy and mindwrack is 5 energy... or you wont since theyre both 5.
what i do like about it is that it does more damage than the migraine/interupt build, while not being dependant on those hexes staying ON the target...
... and its an easily spammable way of doing edenial, esurge/burn all have 20 second cooldowns while these have like 2 seconds. and theres no elite involved so you can spend that on energy management (maybe)
(reason i mention damage is because then maybe you can do a 4 mesmer/1 warrior team in tombs and actually have the matches last less than 25 minutes
)
this is all gwtheory at the moment ^^
the idea is you dont need any curses, or at most like 3-4 (since malaise wont last long on a decent player) and you can pump the rest into domination. then you can force them to kill themselves with mindwrack, or just kind of sit there with crappy energy.
only problems i see with this is that you are going to run into MASSIVE energy problems since malaise is *5* energy and mindwrack is 5 energy... or you wont since theyre both 5.
what i do like about it is that it does more damage than the migraine/interupt build, while not being dependant on those hexes staying ON the target...
... and its an easily spammable way of doing edenial, esurge/burn all have 20 second cooldowns while these have like 2 seconds. and theres no elite involved so you can spend that on energy management
(maybe)(reason i mention damage is because then maybe you can do a 4 mesmer/1 warrior team in tombs and actually have the matches last less than 25 minutes
)this is all gwtheory at the moment ^^
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfhunter
only problems i see with this is that you are going to run into MASSIVE energy problems since malaise is 10 energy and mindwrack is 5 energy...
Malaise is 5 energy.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
Malaise is 5 energy.
you sure? i thought i read it as 10... well ill take your word for it...
Shwitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfhunter
well hows this for malaise combo; mindwrack + malaise + energy surge/burn etc
the idea is you dont need any curses, or at most like 3-4 (since malaise wont last long on a decent player) and you can pump the rest into domination. then you can force them to kill themselves with mindwrack, or just kind of sit there with crappy energy.
only problems i see with this is that you are going to run into MASSIVE energy problems since malaise is *5* energy and mindwrack is 5 energy... or you wont since theyre both 5.
what i do like about it is that it does more damage than the migraine/interupt build, while not being dependant on those hexes staying ON the target...
... and its an easily spammable way of doing edenial, esurge/burn all have 20 second cooldowns while these have like 2 seconds. and theres no elite involved so you can spend that on energy management (maybe)
(reason i mention damage is because then maybe you can do a 4 mesmer/1 warrior team in tombs and actually have the matches last less than 25 minutes )
this is all gwtheory at the moment ^^ Malaise and Mind Wrack both are short recharge and neither are elite, true... but Energy Surge is an elite, and I believe you included that in the skills for the combo. I might be able to get away with low level curses if I used this combo, which would be nice. I could pump up Inspiration for better energy gain that way
I'll test it out sometime and see what happens.
the idea is you dont need any curses, or at most like 3-4 (since malaise wont last long on a decent player) and you can pump the rest into domination. then you can force them to kill themselves with mindwrack, or just kind of sit there with crappy energy.
only problems i see with this is that you are going to run into MASSIVE energy problems since malaise is *5* energy and mindwrack is 5 energy... or you wont since theyre both 5.
what i do like about it is that it does more damage than the migraine/interupt build, while not being dependant on those hexes staying ON the target...
... and its an easily spammable way of doing edenial, esurge/burn all have 20 second cooldowns while these have like 2 seconds. and theres no elite involved so you can spend that on energy management
(maybe)(reason i mention damage is because then maybe you can do a 4 mesmer/1 warrior team in tombs and actually have the matches last less than 25 minutes
)this is all gwtheory at the moment ^^ Malaise and Mind Wrack both are short recharge and neither are elite, true... but Energy Surge is an elite, and I believe you included that in the skills for the combo. I might be able to get away with low level curses if I used this combo, which would be nice. I could pump up Inspiration for better energy gain that way
I'll test it out sometime and see what happens.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwitz
Malaise and Mind Wrack both are short recharge and neither are elite, true... but Energy Surge is an elite, and I believe you included that in the skills for the combo. I might be able to get away with low level curses if I used this combo, which would be nice. I could pump up Inspiration for better energy gain that way
I'll test it out sometime and see what happens. i had an even better idea: take panic as the elite. this one doesnt get removed at 0 energy, and if you add on malaise/mindwrack/eburn/signet of weariness it might work even better
I'll test it out sometime and see what happens. i had an even better idea: take panic as the elite. this one doesnt get removed at 0 energy, and if you add on malaise/mindwrack/eburn/signet of weariness it might work even better
Shwitz
Panic is a cool elite, no doubt... but 25 energy is hefty, even for someone with access to Inspiration magic. If I were to use Panic, what would I do to offset the cost?
14 Domination
8 Fast Casting
11 Inspiration
9 Curses
1. Panic {E}
2. Malaise
3. Energy Burn
4. Signet of Weariness
5. Mind Wrack
6. Power Drain
7. Ether Lord
8. Res Sig
No defense, no self-heal... how do I make something like this work?
14 Domination
8 Fast Casting
11 Inspiration
9 Curses
1. Panic {E}
2. Malaise
3. Energy Burn
4. Signet of Weariness
5. Mind Wrack
6. Power Drain
7. Ether Lord
8. Res Sig
No defense, no self-heal... how do I make something like this work?
smurfhunter
ether lord is a nono unless you echo it, at least i think so... so...
in your build id swith ether lord for drain enchantment.
my biggest problem with the build so far is you cant really do anything but malaise/mindwrack while you wait for stuff to recharge. which is great and all, but you wont be "totally" shutting down a monk with this. maybe take... glyph of renewal as the elite and use two energy burns?
i think this build still needs some work.. hmm..
in your build id swith ether lord for drain enchantment.
my biggest problem with the build so far is you cant really do anything but malaise/mindwrack while you wait for stuff to recharge. which is great and all, but you wont be "totally" shutting down a monk with this. maybe take... glyph of renewal as the elite and use two energy burns?
i think this build still needs some work.. hmm..
Shwitz
If I were to switch to Ele 2nd for Glyph of Renewal, I'd lose Malaise... bah, is this skill just not usable? Energy degen is so hard to maintain and use...
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwitz
If I were to switch to Ele 2nd for Glyph of Renewal, I'd lose Malaise... bah, is this skill just not usable? Energy degen is so hard to maintain and use...
yea im starting to think malaise just isnt worth it..
>.< hate it when im wrong lol
>.< hate it when im wrong lol
clonmac
I've been using a Malaise/Wither build combo lately and it has been working awesome. I have never run into an issue with weapon swapping. I think the 2 degen on yourself is a really great thing. It may seem funny, but having that 2 degen is such a good way to tell if malaise is still on your target. If I see that it is removed, I throw it right back on my target along with wither.
If they are smart enough to weapon swap. Immediately after their weapon swap I put it right back on them. The thing about Malaise and Wither is that they are very spammable. So even with a good weapon swapper, they WILL hit 0 energy. Once I see that Malaise and Wither are gone, I hit them with Ether Lord. This will give them 10 seconds of 3 energy degen. Then after I see that my 3 energy regen is gone, I put malaise and wither back on my target.
I think people are thinking that weapon swapping has made malaise and wither useless, which I thought at first too. But, after using these spells a lot lately in GvG, HoH, and TA, I've found that they are amazing at draining your target of energy.
You have to think of it this way too: For every second you keep malaise and wither on your target, you are draining a little more than 1 energy. So if you keep malaise and wither on your target for 30 seconds by spamming those spells, that is 40 energy you have just denied you target. Over time, these spells are great. I don't combine them with any energy draining spells. I just let them do their work on their own. That is when they really shine.
If they are smart enough to weapon swap. Immediately after their weapon swap I put it right back on them. The thing about Malaise and Wither is that they are very spammable. So even with a good weapon swapper, they WILL hit 0 energy. Once I see that Malaise and Wither are gone, I hit them with Ether Lord. This will give them 10 seconds of 3 energy degen. Then after I see that my 3 energy regen is gone, I put malaise and wither back on my target.
I think people are thinking that weapon swapping has made malaise and wither useless, which I thought at first too. But, after using these spells a lot lately in GvG, HoH, and TA, I've found that they are amazing at draining your target of energy.
You have to think of it this way too: For every second you keep malaise and wither on your target, you are draining a little more than 1 energy. So if you keep malaise and wither on your target for 30 seconds by spamming those spells, that is 40 energy you have just denied you target. Over time, these spells are great. I don't combine them with any energy draining spells. I just let them do their work on their own. That is when they really shine.
Shwitz
If I were to use Mind Wrack in the build, that would be another way to know when they hit zero, since Mind Wrack would trigger. If you don't mind me asking, clonmac, what skills and attributes are you using? I'd like to adapt something like that for a Me/N... but I'd also have to figure out a way to compensate for being such a hot target in CA and putting degen on myself.
clonmac
Well, I'm not going to post my entire build mainly because it is the build I use for GvG and 4v4. But, as far as the energy denial side of my build goes, all I use is wither, malaise, and ether lord. I use Ether Feast to give myself some health, but also as a bit of energy drain as well. I don't want to use heavy energy drains, because like it was said above, you don't want to work against your own elite. You want it to work for you.
People a lot of times give up on Wither/Malaise after the enemy has weapon swapped out or have removed them with hex removal. But the key to it is to spam them as much as possible. Once you get the target below that 15 energy point, then weapon swapping becomes less and less useful. Once you see that they weapon swapped for the first time, throw the spells back on the target. Now they swap back and cast another spell with about 10 energy left, now they are most likely at no energy even with their weapons equipped. Once I see that Malaise is gone after the first weapon swap, I cast Ether lord on them. Now weapon swapping won't do them any good at all and they are without any energy for the next 10 seconds. Once I notice the energy regen from Ether Lord gone, I throw Wither/Malaise back on.
So unlike straight energy drain skills that can drain the enemies entire energy pool in a few seconds. These skills are much more effective at denying energy over the long haul. They are much more effective in 8 man battles that last longer. Especially with Hex removals around. Getting a Monk to spend energy on removing your hex just for you to put it back on is a great way to have the monk help you out in draining his own energy. Once you get past that first weapon swap, then weapon swapping doesn't do much good because that is when with or with out their weapon equipped, they won't be able to cast many spells. Many straight energy drains have longer recast times. And with most monks that use their own energy management skills, it is tough to keep them a energy levels low enough so that they can't cast once you've used up your energy drains. But, with Wither/Malaise, you will be an energy management nightmare for them for as long as you are alive.
Through out the time I am using Wither/Malaise, I spam Ether Feast as much as possible. Even if I don't need the health. It doesn't drain much energy, but like I said, you don't want it to. But what it can do is drop an enemies energy to 0 making Malaise come off, this let's you know that they are at 0 energy and that you can cast Ether Lord.
I have my Inspiration Magic set to 14 just so you know. This puts Ether Lord's duration to 10 seconds.
People a lot of times give up on Wither/Malaise after the enemy has weapon swapped out or have removed them with hex removal. But the key to it is to spam them as much as possible. Once you get the target below that 15 energy point, then weapon swapping becomes less and less useful. Once you see that they weapon swapped for the first time, throw the spells back on the target. Now they swap back and cast another spell with about 10 energy left, now they are most likely at no energy even with their weapons equipped. Once I see that Malaise is gone after the first weapon swap, I cast Ether lord on them. Now weapon swapping won't do them any good at all and they are without any energy for the next 10 seconds. Once I notice the energy regen from Ether Lord gone, I throw Wither/Malaise back on.
So unlike straight energy drain skills that can drain the enemies entire energy pool in a few seconds. These skills are much more effective at denying energy over the long haul. They are much more effective in 8 man battles that last longer. Especially with Hex removals around. Getting a Monk to spend energy on removing your hex just for you to put it back on is a great way to have the monk help you out in draining his own energy. Once you get past that first weapon swap, then weapon swapping doesn't do much good because that is when with or with out their weapon equipped, they won't be able to cast many spells. Many straight energy drains have longer recast times. And with most monks that use their own energy management skills, it is tough to keep them a energy levels low enough so that they can't cast once you've used up your energy drains. But, with Wither/Malaise, you will be an energy management nightmare for them for as long as you are alive.
Through out the time I am using Wither/Malaise, I spam Ether Feast as much as possible. Even if I don't need the health. It doesn't drain much energy, but like I said, you don't want it to. But what it can do is drop an enemies energy to 0 making Malaise come off, this let's you know that they are at 0 energy and that you can cast Ether Lord.
I have my Inspiration Magic set to 14 just so you know. This puts Ether Lord's duration to 10 seconds.
Shwitz
So you ARE running this on a Me/N! I thought you were doing this on a N/Me, judging from your avatar and listed profession. I agree, many people give up on skills very quickly, and much like all DoT spells, energy degen spells are designed for long, drawn out battles... which may be why I'm becoming frustrated with them in the short battles of the Competition Arenas. I guess I'll have to wait for my guild to start doing some GvG with regularity or use my mesmer in the ToPK to play with these skills in an appropriate setting. I wonder, though... what is the rest of your skill set... thanks for the tips clonmac, I appreciate your taking the time to enlighten me.
smurfhunter
in fact, just to argue on both sides for a second, i did see a team in tombs that had massive amounts of energy surge-ing. they brought us all really low in that initial spike (its aoe yknow) and our monks were pretty drained but they couldnt keep the energy surgeing up, and we ended up winning. so in that case a more persistant edenial like ether lord/malaise might work. maybe.
Shwitz
Energy Surge's *damage* is AoE, but the energy draining isn't. That'd be sweet if it was.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwitz
Energy Surge's *damage* is AoE, but the energy draining isn't. That'd be sweet if it was.
it has a really nice range too.
apparently, if you take a build of 8 mesmers who all arcane echo/energy surge/energy surge their opposite number its a guaranteed victory assuming you can keep the enemy in a relative ball and you dont expect to win altars.
ooo this could be THE Build to take mending into!!
o.O i reserve the rights to use this build with mending
apparently, if you take a build of 8 mesmers who all arcane echo/energy surge/energy surge their opposite number its a guaranteed victory assuming you can keep the enemy in a relative ball and you dont expect to win altars.
ooo this could be THE Build to take mending into!!
o.O i reserve the rights to use this build with mending
Shwitz
Sounds like a flavor of the month build if you can somehow prevent all your squishy mesmers from dying. But seriously, that'd be huge amounts of energy you're spending on everyone. Arcane Echo, Energy Surge, Energy Surge, Energy Burn... sure you've burned 30 energy, and caused maximum 240 damage by yourself to one target in a relatively short amount of time... but you spent 45 energy for all those spells, and there's no guarentee that all of your spells did max damage, since you're bound to run into warriors, who don't have a lot of energy to burn, and the casters are going to cast spells so that they won't always have 30+ energy for you to blow up.
Are you proposing that Mending be run on all the mesmers? I'm not sure what you mean.
Anyway, that would be a ton of damage done to those who ball up, assuming they still have energy for you to burn. I love Energy Surge. But, we're off topic! Energy degen is the topic of discussion. Have anything more to say about Wither, Malaise, Ether Lord, and Panic? Are there any other spells I'm forgetting that cause energy degeneration on a target?
Are you proposing that Mending be run on all the mesmers? I'm not sure what you mean.
Anyway, that would be a ton of damage done to those who ball up, assuming they still have energy for you to burn. I love Energy Surge. But, we're off topic! Energy degen is the topic of discussion. Have anything more to say about Wither, Malaise, Ether Lord, and Panic? Are there any other spells I'm forgetting that cause energy degeneration on a target?
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfhunter
it has a really nice range too.
apparently, if you take a build of 8 mesmers who all arcane echo/energy surge/energy surge their opposite number its a guaranteed victory assuming you can keep the enemy in a relative ball and you dont expect to win altars. I've faced a team like that. We didn't spread out enough (Energy Surge has a surprisingly large radius!), and it took them about three seconds to kill 3/4 of our team. Mopping up the rest took only a little longer. It was kind of embarassing.
apparently, if you take a build of 8 mesmers who all arcane echo/energy surge/energy surge their opposite number its a guaranteed victory assuming you can keep the enemy in a relative ball and you dont expect to win altars. I've faced a team like that. We didn't spread out enough (Energy Surge has a surprisingly large radius!), and it took them about three seconds to kill 3/4 of our team. Mopping up the rest took only a little longer. It was kind of embarassing.
smurfhunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwitz
Sounds like a flavor of the month build if you can somehow prevent all your squishy mesmers from dying. But seriously, that'd be huge amounts of energy you're spending on everyone. Arcane Echo, Energy Surge, Energy Surge, Energy Burn... sure you've burned 30 energy, and caused maximum 240 damage by yourself to one target in a relatively short amount of time... but you spent 45 energy for all those spells, and there's no guarentee that all of your spells did max damage, since you're bound to run into warriors, who don't have a lot of energy to burn, and the casters are going to cast spells so that they won't always have 30+ energy for you to blow up.
Are you proposing that Mending be run on all the mesmers? I'm not sure what you mean.
Anyway, that would be a ton of damage done to those who ball up, assuming they still have energy for you to burn. I love Energy Surge. But, we're off topic! Energy degen is the topic of discussion. Have anything more to say about Wither, Malaise, Ether Lord, and Panic? Are there any other spells I'm forgetting that cause energy degeneration on a target?
see as natalie said, its a gimmick build. you unload your first shot and then close your eyes and count to 3. by that time your either dead or theyre dead.
the idea of using mending in it was to be able to win the hoh using every crappy skill there is, like rust. ive managed to win with rust and ice spear, but theres a muuuch longer list of awesome skills to win with, like mending.
aaaanyway, energy degen can come in two forms: the obvious one (like malaise or ether lord where its like duuh he has -2 enegyr regen), or theres the slightly less obvious one where you remove chunks of energy at regular intervals. both are really the same.
for example, energy surge can be cast once every 20 seconds, and removes 10 energy, so thats like 1 energy every 2 seconds which is slightly more than 1 pip. energy burn is the same, so both of those is like somewhat more than 2 pips of energy degen, and it doesnt 'stop' when the target reaches 0.
throw in signet of weariness, and you basically have 4 pips of regen under control. the rest is fluff like shame and energy regen stuff.
so.. technically, malaise does more energy degen than energy burn/surge, only it rarely ever gets to last long enough for it to do as much as energy burn.
i think its safe to say my non-standard energy denial mesmer is under construction atm >.<
Are you proposing that Mending be run on all the mesmers? I'm not sure what you mean.
Anyway, that would be a ton of damage done to those who ball up, assuming they still have energy for you to burn. I love Energy Surge. But, we're off topic! Energy degen is the topic of discussion. Have anything more to say about Wither, Malaise, Ether Lord, and Panic? Are there any other spells I'm forgetting that cause energy degeneration on a target?
see as natalie said, its a gimmick build. you unload your first shot and then close your eyes and count to 3. by that time your either dead or theyre dead.
the idea of using mending in it was to be able to win the hoh using every crappy skill there is, like rust. ive managed to win with rust and ice spear, but theres a muuuch longer list of awesome skills to win with, like mending.
aaaanyway, energy degen can come in two forms: the obvious one (like malaise or ether lord where its like duuh he has -2 enegyr regen), or theres the slightly less obvious one where you remove chunks of energy at regular intervals. both are really the same.
for example, energy surge can be cast once every 20 seconds, and removes 10 energy, so thats like 1 energy every 2 seconds which is slightly more than 1 pip. energy burn is the same, so both of those is like somewhat more than 2 pips of energy degen, and it doesnt 'stop' when the target reaches 0.
throw in signet of weariness, and you basically have 4 pips of regen under control. the rest is fluff like shame and energy regen stuff.
so.. technically, malaise does more energy degen than energy burn/surge, only it rarely ever gets to last long enough for it to do as much as energy burn.
i think its safe to say my non-standard energy denial mesmer is under construction atm >.<