Why isn't IWAY nerfed yet? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 13:27 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jules

Gaile was in LA inter dis 1 last night and said "Pets are allies, aren't they?"
Sorry I've got no screens but I'm sure if you troll around for Gaile threads you'll find proof there. The question is whether it was tongue in cheek or an official position.

Proof that Anet doesn't really care AT ALL.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 13:32 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

That's mostly Anet's and the communitys fault.

No tutorials, REALLY bad premades (1up interview..eww), and the ranking system.

Get rid of the ranking emote system, put in good premades (and a mini-movie describing the how and why), and a PvP tutorial.

Guaranatee you that casual players would stand a chance. But that would require effort from Anet and the community.

True, there should be tutorials although chances are that any tutorial would not get right down to all the nuanced nitty-gritty of what the top teams do to win in Tombs. So it would help a little bit, but it would not be a cureall that lets casual players beat good teams.

Totally agree with you about the premades. Those are crap, it boggles my mind how the devs ever decided to greenlight those builds. Scrap those and throw in some good premades.

As for taking out ranking: worst idea ever. Then Guild Wars PVP would go from having little point (as it does now; the only point being to earn emotes), to having no point whatsoever.

Anyhow you are right that it's ANet's fault that the nature of the complex game design makes Tombsing impossible for casual players. However, knowing that, it is still the situation we currently have, like it or not. Therefore my point stands about nerfing IWAY - whilst none of the changes you have suggested are implemented - would still drive all the casual players from the game right now. Hence if they were going to nerf IWAY, better to do it after they have first provided other ways for casual gamers to have a chance of winning a bit in Tombs.

Iere

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Midnights Revenge [MiRe]

Mo/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 13:38 - 43

So Marky, you want something nerfed just because SO MANY PEOPLE use it?

Like someone said earlier, people run it because it's easy. People will run easy builds. Why do people run trap builds in the UW? Because it's easy and fun.

The only good reason to nerf something is if it's unbalanced. IWAY is clearly not, and it's going to keep being there, so learn to live with it.

Raiin Maker

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

England

Blood On The Worlds Hands

W/

29 Oct 2005 at 13:40 - 44

IWAY is a good build, only way to defeat a good build, is either with teamwork, or a better build... how about instead of ranting you try and find a better build, hmm?

Raiin Maker

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

England

Blood On The Worlds Hands

W/

29 Oct 2005 at 13:43 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

they should delete warriors from the game

lol, you are a warroir how can you say that? and then who would tank... the monks? lol... i think not.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

29 Oct 2005 at 13:45 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiin Maker

lol, you are a warroir how can you say that? and then who would tank... the monks? lol... i think not.

how am i a warrior?

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 13:45 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iere

So Marky, you want something nerfed just because SO MANY PEOPLE use it?

Like someone said earlier, people run it because it's easy. People will run easy builds. Why do people run trap builds in the UW? Because it's easy and fun.

The only good reason to nerf something is if it's unbalanced. IWAY is clearly not, and it's going to keep being there, so learn to live with it.

Nerf IWAY because it did the following:

1) Killed any good competition in Tombs.

2) Makes it harder for people who don't resort IWAY to join groups. I'm rank 6, shutdown mes, right now, and no one invited me.

3) Ruined the ranking system. Now rank 6 players are really rank 3 players who don't know what they are doing.

4) Destroyed the 'unpredictable' atmosphere of tombs. Before you would face totally unique builds on almost every match, now people play drinking games in Tombs instead of playing the game itself.

ange1

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

29 Oct 2005 at 13:46 - 48

it's not overpowered, it's just the only effective build out there that requires no ts/vent,and takes less than 10 mins to get a team with all the right skills. so everyone new is running it.

how else are u suppose to find a pug who's willing to take all the skills u ask of them in less than 30 mins?

instead of nerfing i say added more skills that allow no ts/vent timing builds.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

29 Oct 2005 at 14:13 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Nerf IWAY because it did the following:

1) Killed any good competition in Tombs.

the real competition isnt in uw, its in the later maps. iway isnt as common there and is treated as free fame .

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

2) Makes it harder for people who don't resort IWAY to join groups. I'm rank 6, shutdown mes, right now, and no one invited me.

im not sure i follow that, the people that run iway now and the people that ran normal builds barely ever mixed. if you only want to play one specific class of one job, good luck finding a group. usually you try and do what the group wants..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

3) Ruined the ranking system. Now rank 6 players are really rank 3 players who don't know what they are doing.

yeap this is why i hate iways

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

4) Destroyed the 'unpredictable' atmosphere of tombs. Before you would face totally unique builds on almost every match, now people play drinking games in Tombs instead of playing the game itself.

well.. basically all you meet in the first few maps is either iway,some depressing hench build or ranger spike... but later on it gets more fun.

all in all this like iway plague really isnt there in the later maps, and especially in the hoh itself. what i do hate is how all these nubs are cruising to rank 6 with this =/

ange1

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

29 Oct 2005 at 15:10 - 50

crusing to rank 6? as oppose to teams with ts/vent that counts to 3 then do heal ball?

pvp ranking is a joke, people running these builds just want fame. as long as fame exist, then there's always going to be builds like this.

Mysterial

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Servants of Fortuna

E/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 15:13 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

1) Killed any good competition in Tombs.

If you're not good enough to handle IWAY you shouldn't be in tombs in the first place.

Quote:

2) Makes it harder for people who don't resort IWAY to join groups. I'm rank 6, shutdown mes, right now, and no one invited me.

Same with all FOTM builds. When air spike was popular, if you weren't an air spiker, you weren't going to get groups. Same with smite, spirit spam, and now IWAY. Blame Arenanet for the weak party-finding controls, but IWAY has nothing to do with it.

Quote:

3) Ruined the ranking system. Now rank 6 players are really rank 3 players who don't know what they are doing.

That implies the ranking system ever had meaning. It didn't. As I said, there were earlier FOTM builds that did exactly the same thing.

Quote:

4) Destroyed the 'unpredictable' atmosphere of tombs. Before you would face totally unique builds on almost every match, now people play drinking games in Tombs instead of playing the game itself.

I have never, ever played tombs and faced a unique build every match. It never happened. It never will happen. People are far too lazy for it. There's always a FOTM build that most are using.

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 16:24 - 52

Quote:

I have never, ever played tombs and faced a unique build every match. It never happened. It never will happen. People are far too lazy for it. There's always a FOTM build that most are using.

After the update with all the nerfs and IWAY pet builds weren't around, I had a much easier time getting into a group. Let's put it that way.

Quote:

If you're not good enough to handle IWAY you shouldn't be in tombs in the first place.

IWAY has major advantages in KOTH battles and flag runs. Usually an IWAY cannot stand a healing ball, but in flag runs, that isn't possible. IWAY works like a very retarded yet powerful swarm. If one guy goes alone, you lose.

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 16:25 - 53

Quote:

That implies the ranking system ever had meaning. It didn't. As I said, there were earlier FOTM builds that did exactly the same thing.

It does. Rank 0 players don't even have a chance to join an HOH group now.

musefanalert

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

We Like Music [Loud]

R/

29 Oct 2005 at 16:25 - 54

IWAY really isnt as bad as u make out, ok yes, it is for simpletons but without it there is no hope of getting any rank cos to get rank you need to be in a good team, but to get in a good team (usually rank 3+). Thanks to IWAY (i run a R/W variant replacing 2 W/R with barrage IWAY R/Ws with stances) i now have enough rank to get in the good teams

plus we got all the way to the last battle where we got owned by a ranger spike team (although 2 people had had to leave)

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 16:27 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by musefanalert

IWAY really isnt as bad as u make out, ok yes, it is for simpletons but without it there is no hope of getting any rank cos to get rank you need to be in a good team, but to get in a good team (usually rank 3+). Thanks to IWAY (i run a R/W variant replacing 2 W/R with barrage IWAY R/Ws with stances) i now have enough rank to get in the good teams

plus we got all the way to the last battle where we got owned by a ranger spike team (although 2 people had had to leave)

So instead of...you know, learning the game, why these builds work, or why this guild rocks...

You just play IWAY for several hours? This is just another example of why IWAY should be nerfed.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 17:27 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

all in all this like iway plague really isnt there in the later maps, and especially in the hoh itself. what i do hate is how all these nubs are cruising to rank 6 with this =/

To be fair, there is no "cruise" in getting rank 6 with IWAY. It's an incredibly boring grind. You get in newbie IWAY groups (more newbie than simply being IWAY) that have Sword Warriors with no Bow and no pets and all kinds of total morons who are not even fit to play IWAY (yes I know, how sad is that!) and make that IWAY party lose in the first round or two.

Even if you get a good IWAY party, it's gonna lose in round 3 or 4 and then many people in the party will have to go and then it takes more time to reform the party only to lose a few rounds in again.

What I'm saying is that although getting to rank 6 with IWAY would not require skill, it would require a great deal of fortitude and putting up with a horrendously boring fame grind. Therefore I take the view that anyone who got to rank 6 with IWAY deserves it simply out of respect for his fortitude with not having been bored to death long before rank 6.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

29 Oct 2005 at 17:55 - 57

A modded IWAY group can destroy heal balls. I've been in them. Maybe if people used some of their own creativity, they could create their own modded IWAYs and do well instead of complaining.

schutz

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

wales

W/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 18:00 - 58

IWAY is pathetic, NERF RANGER SPIKER BUILD ASAP then europe will stop getting favor

thegame2009

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Forsaken Sanctuary [FoSa]

Mo/Me

29 Oct 2005 at 20:14 - 59

I grouped with some friends last night and we came up against iway about 17/25 times. We beat IWAY every time until this one iway ganked us in halls with another balanced team. Iway is not overpowered.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 22:44 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Ruined the ranking system. Now rank 6 players are really rank 3 players who don't know what they are doing.

ow?

i made a tombs party weeks ago and wanted a ranger trapper.

me: "Looking for An Experienced Trapper Who knows What He's Doin"

Then, i recieved a request. his guild is familiar. he told me that he's rank 6+ and asked if we had ts or vent.

why would we need a ts or vent server if every body knows what theyre doin.

i let him play and he sucked.

i dont think he got his rank 6 in IWAY. IWAY doesnt require TS or Vent. its optional.

now tell me whos skilled.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 22:51 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

all in all this like iway plague really isnt there in the later maps, and especially in the hoh itself. what i do hate is how all these nubs are cruising to rank 6 with this =/

check the fotm history. ^^

the rank 6-9s now who got their ranks on spamming are now setting rules. gay.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

29 Oct 2005 at 23:37 - 62

no other fotm can net you fame as fast as iway. check spirit spamming, its a holding build. you dont win quick fame from that. air spike requires ts/vent. etc. iway is the only one where you can get some total degenerates, say "<--- winnow" and your off to some easy fame.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 23:50 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

no other fotm can net you fame as fast as iway. check spirit spamming, its a holding build. you dont win quick fame from that. air spike requires ts/vent. etc. iway is the only one where you can get some total degenerates, say "<--- winnow" and your off to some easy fame.

whats wrong with people getting that added emote, aka rank, which imo is not the basis for skill, in less time?

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

29 Oct 2005 at 23:53 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

whats wrong with people getting that added emote, aka rank, which imo is not the basis for skill, in less time?

anet has the shittiest way of helping people find a group. in pve this means spamming. in tombs, it means asking for a __ ranked played, with the assumption that someone ranked at least __ cant be thaat bad. something that used to be true...

i kind of miss the days when you would see like 1 deer in tombs, and it would be like.. wow...

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

29 Oct 2005 at 23:55 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

anet has the shittiest way of helping people find a group. in pve this means spamming. in tombs, it means asking for a __ ranked played, with the assumption that someone ranked at least __ cant be thaat bad. something that used to be true...

i kind of miss the days when you would see like 1 deer in tombs, and it would be like.. wow...

well, i miss the olden days in tombs when people can just pug, play and have fun without the /rank.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

30 Oct 2005 at 00:00 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

well, i miss the olden days in tombs when people can just pug, play and have fun without the /rank.

i kinda do. kinda...

KuTeBaka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

30 Oct 2005 at 00:15 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

After the update with all the nerfs and IWAY pet builds weren't around, I had a much easier time getting into a group. Let's put it that way.

Get a guild, get some contacts, add some friends. Pretty soon you will have people asking you if you want to play with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

IWAY has major advantages in KOTH battles and flag runs. Usually an IWAY cannot stand a healing ball, but in flag runs, that isn't possible. IWAY works like a very retarded yet powerful swarm. If one guy goes alone, you lose.

Are you kidding me? Get a monk, heal the runner. IWAY sucks in RELIC runs because the runner has no way to heal but iway. That equals 6 pips of regen, if you cannot outdamage that your build really sucks.

Every time i go in tombs I hope to go against Iway for the free faction and fame.

ange1

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

30 Oct 2005 at 00:17 - 68

fame should only be given in random arena

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

30 Oct 2005 at 00:39 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by schutz

IWAY is pathetic, NERF RANGER SPIKER BUILD ASAP then europe will stop getting favor

Whats pathtic is so many people lose to them, because they rode the flavor of the month to get their fame be it smite or spirit spam and they got less skill than they let on. Rangers have been nerfed to death already. The answer to this is just win. Stop losing and the builds will die. Becuase there will be no point to them. The constant PvP whining is driving more people from the game than IWAY or Ranger spikers ever will. If IWAY and ranger spikes dissappeared tomorrow how is that helping the game? The same small group of elitest jerks no giving anyone a group. How is that helping PvP? Some micro-community within the game trying to dictate who and how everyone else can play? There are more newbs than vetern players which is proven by all the IWAY builds. So its the need of the many versuses the needs of the few. Anet would be crazy to cator to this small group, cause 50 bucks is 50 bucks. The so called elite veterans could quit tomorrow and it wouldnt make a bit of difference.

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

30 Oct 2005 at 00:45 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by ange1

fame should only be given in random arena

lol wtf there would be bots with more fame than me

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

30 Oct 2005 at 00:50 - 71

Lmao, who pugs anymore? I stopped, and started doing it with my guild when we have the time. If all a person can do is play a W/R, you know where he got his Rank X from.

And IWAY is not overpowered, if it was, why does it not win halls consistently? If your team cannot bring a counter to it (Aegis, Ward Against Melee, etc), then if you face a normal group (usually atleast 1 w/r), your monks will waste alot of time healing each other. Not preparing for counters to FotM builds in tombs is like not bringing a snare in Competition Arenas: you won't win if your target doesn't get hit, and you won't win if everyone on your team is getting hit simultaneously.

Sjacob33

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2005

Townsville, Australia

Demented Demon Llamas

N/Mo

30 Oct 2005 at 00:53 - 72

I run a N/Mo and i can take an IWAY build one on one no worries when runnin curses and blood and a bit of healing can keep myself alive beter than an W and make him so piss weak he can't do shit to me

Melkor Pvp

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Oct 2005 at 01:20 - 73

Quote:

Because IWAY is the only reason to play a W/R.
Without IWAY, W/R have no use in pvp.

Ever heard of Tiger's Fury?

MarkyX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Oct 2005 at 03:13 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Lmao, who pugs anymore? I stopped, and started doing it with my guild when we have the time. If all a person can do is play a W/R, you know where he got his Rank X from.

Exactly my point. IWAY, ranger spiking, and rank is killing off the competition. New players have no chance in hell to GvG or PvP (those 1 mill accounts? Know a couple of people who bought the game and sold it on ebay the next day. Does Anet still count these?)

I can't wait till the huge world tournament, which will be spike verses spike.

Yawn.

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

30 Oct 2005 at 03:29 - 75

If you can't beat standard IWAY teams then you need to be nerfed..

Learn to play before you enter the tombs. You don't know how many terrible rank -1 pugs there are in districts 2-8 in the North American server.

Good IWAY teams are anti-idiot. IWAY wouln't get you to the halls.

Are you saying that IWAY is an exploit becuase.. Why? It's easy to get people for?

Indian

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

[SWIM]/[HooD]/[RFE]

Me/

30 Oct 2005 at 03:42 - 76

IWAY = Make Good Monks outta crappy monks

thats all i can say

Roza

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Amsterdam

The War Masters

R/W

30 Oct 2005 at 03:51 - 77

IWAY does not need to be nerfed. Parties and guilds that only accept people above a certain rank should be, because they force the inexperienced player to go IWAY for fame-farming.

Ok, now I am overstating my point, I know.

Please do NOT nerf builds that are NOT in need of nerving, Anet!

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

30 Oct 2005 at 04:38 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

Exactly my point. IWAY, ranger spiking, and rank is killing off the competition. New players have no chance in hell to GvG or PvP (those 1 mill accounts? Know a couple of people who bought the game and sold it on ebay the next day. Does Anet still count these?)

I can't wait till the huge world tournament, which will be spike verses spike.

Yawn.

Wow, what else is new? It's always been spike vs spike. It just depends on your coordination, your team, and your tactics around the maps. The rank system was flawed to begin with, and rank does not equal skill in anyway. Whoever doesn't realize that (more than half the gw community) is not someone I would want to pug with anyway. Rank X is not a guaranteed win, but it helps, and only that. It only shows that you know your way around the maps and what to do in certain situations. You obviously have not had enough skill to overcome an IWAY team, and you should really try to find some people to tombs with on a constant basis in order to realize that IWAY does not need to be nerfed.

Nerfing anything that can kill you is just blatant whining. (Unless its bugged) I have even seen requests of making IWAY an elite skill, which seems ludicrous because of its horrible effect, that should not even be put on your skill bar unless you are acutally running an IWAY build.

TheCrusader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Kent,Washington

Dei Victorae [dV]

R/

30 Oct 2005 at 04:46 - 79

IWAY Is so weak.. doesnt even get much faction farming anymore, everyone brings a counter to IWAY nowadays heres one...

DUST TRAP

Hannibel

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

Playboy Entertainment

30 Oct 2005 at 04:55 - 80

iway has no reasons to be nerfed if your going to be running a build to counter another build you shouldn't even be in tombs

if the teams who ran good builds got owned by iway group, then there build was trash because a good one wouldn't loose to an iway group

the people who win hoh with iway groups, don't run usually your normal stupid, tainted necro and order necro with 6 iway warriors, they have more depth into there builds and that's the reason why they win

if you don't play in tombs because you can't find a group then you were never anygood, if you were really looking to find a group to get a team that has more depth and has more chance of winning then an iway group you'd prob go to int districts or do a guild group that has a balanced build which is usually more successful

only people who complain about iway being nerfed are noobs, people who actually pvp deal with it and make a build around potentually running into an iway group