W/Mo Paladin builds pvp and pve
rii
But imagine a 4v4... it could be expressed as 4 x 1v1.... so as long as you drop your target, and everyone has a res sig, it comes down to who kills who first. If they then res, kill you, then you are ressed, you will kill them due to your superior killing skills, and thusly win. Obviously lots of other things can happen, but thats a broad generalisation.
Stormbringer
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Originally Posted by rii
But imagine a 4v4... it could be expressed as 4 x 1v1.... so as long as you drop your target, and everyone has a res sig, it comes down to who kills who first. If they then res, kill you, then you are ressed, you will kill them due to your superior killing skills, and thusly win. Obviously lots of other things can happen, but thats a broad generalisation.
True. But the more YOU stay alive, as a warrior, the more damage you can spread, thus whether you die or not, your party has the ability to finish off the job...So in my example, staying alive is a good thing...
Man With No Name
Why the hell are we bothering to explain..?? STILL oO
W/Mo's zealously believe that self-healing is the answer. Actually damaging foes, Enchantment removal, Stance breaking and interupting are all low priorities in their mindset.
"As long as we self-heal -- we get the win !!! 1337 !!!!"
errrr....no
This thread has run it's course -- we don't need anymore bad advice spread around -- we've enough W/Mo healers as is.
Warriors do DAMAGE in PvP -- you clearly don't want to do damage, despite multiple examples being posted -- you want to win the fight by attempting to "out-tank" the opponents.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks :'(
/Lock Request +1
W/Mo's zealously believe that self-healing is the answer. Actually damaging foes, Enchantment removal, Stance breaking and interupting are all low priorities in their mindset.
"As long as we self-heal -- we get the win !!! 1337 !!!!"
errrr....no
This thread has run it's course -- we don't need anymore bad advice spread around -- we've enough W/Mo healers as is.
Warriors do DAMAGE in PvP -- you clearly don't want to do damage, despite multiple examples being posted -- you want to win the fight by attempting to "out-tank" the opponents.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks :'(
/Lock Request +1
rii
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbringer
True. But the more YOU stay alive, as a warrior, the more damage you can spread, thus whether you die or not, your party has the ability to finish off the job...So in my example, staying alive is a good thing...
The point is your self healing is not sufficient to keep you alive, and of course its possible they just wont attack you. No, its not a good thing.
Sir Santiago
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Originally Posted by Stormbringer
True. But the more YOU stay alive, as a warrior, the more damage you can spread, thus whether you die or not, your party has the ability to finish off the job...So in my example, staying alive is a good thing...
Besides the fact that your self-heals are not nearly as good as a standard monk's (as already stated), if you're taking the time to heal, you're taking time off from killing your target.
On Strength of Honor & Judge's Insight as a W/Mo option for extra dmg output:
Strength of Honor @ lvl. 8 = 6 extra dmg per hit (7 @ lvl. 10)
Barbs @ lvl. 8 = 6 extra dmg per hit (7 @ lvl. 10)
What's my point? Strength of Honor only helps you. Barbs helps out your physical-damage-doing teammates = you take targets down faster, assuming you have other physical-damage dealers.
Judge's Insight @ lvl. 8 = 16 seconds of 20% armor penetration, holy dmg
Weaken Armor @ lvl. 8 = 26 seconds of -20 armor
Now, I realize these skills are doing different things, but I'd still take Weaken Armor to take down the target faster. Again, it's helping out your teammates just as much as it's helping you. In addition, you can just cast WA and go in and kill the target; with JI, you have to continuously recast it, interrupting the flow of damage. If you are in the midst of killing a target, say a monk, taking the time to recast Judge's Insight gives him extra time to heal/protect himself..
Like I said earlier, the only reason I will take /Mo secondary for Warrior in 4v4 is for Purge Condition or Purge Signet. Then again, there's Plague Touch..
On Strength of Honor & Judge's Insight as a W/Mo option for extra dmg output:
Strength of Honor @ lvl. 8 = 6 extra dmg per hit (7 @ lvl. 10)
Barbs @ lvl. 8 = 6 extra dmg per hit (7 @ lvl. 10)
What's my point? Strength of Honor only helps you. Barbs helps out your physical-damage-doing teammates = you take targets down faster, assuming you have other physical-damage dealers.
Judge's Insight @ lvl. 8 = 16 seconds of 20% armor penetration, holy dmg
Weaken Armor @ lvl. 8 = 26 seconds of -20 armor
Now, I realize these skills are doing different things, but I'd still take Weaken Armor to take down the target faster. Again, it's helping out your teammates just as much as it's helping you. In addition, you can just cast WA and go in and kill the target; with JI, you have to continuously recast it, interrupting the flow of damage. If you are in the midst of killing a target, say a monk, taking the time to recast Judge's Insight gives him extra time to heal/protect himself..
Like I said earlier, the only reason I will take /Mo secondary for Warrior in 4v4 is for Purge Condition or Purge Signet. Then again, there's Plague Touch..
smurfhunter
doing damage isnt simply "look! -5 hp!"
if you spend the whole afternoon griefing someone, say attacking for 10 damage every 2 seconds, your gonna do something like 300 damage a minute, and like 18,000 an hour, etc. you get the picture.
otoh, an axe warrior will probably do a grand total of 500 damage to one guy (in a normal 1 min team arena fight), but the difference is that one guy is dead.
so the question is, why did 500 damage kill him from an axe warrior while 18,000 damage from the paladin didnt?
the answer (and this should be obvious) is that if someone is healing himself, they can heal for X damage per second and be just fine. do more than X damage and they die, do less and nothing happens.
if as a paladin, you are using your self heals to 'stay alive longer' thus allowing you to do 'more damage', you should realize that in effect you are doing absolutely nothing. the amount of damage a paladin does is so pitifully small that a mesmer spamming ether feast can outheal it.
so all in all, sure you spend alot more time alive, you just dont do anything in that time. and this isnt counting the times where someone actually bothers to kill you.
if you spend the whole afternoon griefing someone, say attacking for 10 damage every 2 seconds, your gonna do something like 300 damage a minute, and like 18,000 an hour, etc. you get the picture.
otoh, an axe warrior will probably do a grand total of 500 damage to one guy (in a normal 1 min team arena fight), but the difference is that one guy is dead.
so the question is, why did 500 damage kill him from an axe warrior while 18,000 damage from the paladin didnt?
the answer (and this should be obvious) is that if someone is healing himself, they can heal for X damage per second and be just fine. do more than X damage and they die, do less and nothing happens.
if as a paladin, you are using your self heals to 'stay alive longer' thus allowing you to do 'more damage', you should realize that in effect you are doing absolutely nothing. the amount of damage a paladin does is so pitifully small that a mesmer spamming ether feast can outheal it.
so all in all, sure you spend alot more time alive, you just dont do anything in that time. and this isnt counting the times where someone actually bothers to kill you.
Stormbringer
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfhunter
doing damage isnt simply "look! -5 hp!"
if you spend the whole afternoon griefing someone, say attacking for 10 damage every 2 seconds, your gonna do something like 300 damage a minute, and like 18,000 an hour, etc. you get the picture.
otoh, an axe warrior will probably do a grand total of 500 damage to one guy (in a normal 1 min team arena fight), but the difference is that one guy is dead.
so the question is, why did 500 damage kill him from an axe warrior while 18,000 damage from the paladin didnt?
the answer (and this should be obvious) is that if someone is healing himself, they can heal for X damage per second and be just fine. do more than X damage and they die, do less and nothing happens.
if as a paladin, you are using your self heals to 'stay alive longer' thus allowing you to do 'more damage', you should realize that in effect you are doing absolutely nothing. the amount of damage a paladin does is so pitifully small that a mesmer spamming ether feast can outheal it.
so all in all, sure you spend alot more time alive, you just dont do anything in that time. and this isnt counting the times where someone actually bothers to kill you. Yes yes, 500 dmg, I really want to see you kill my monk with your silly little axe........pff, only mesmers and rangers can really kill a monk you moron!
I'm going to say this ONE LAST TIME.
DROP IT!
THIS THREAD IS MADE FOR PALADINS AND THAT IS ALL. POINT. FINAL. STROKE.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY IN ORDER TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS THREAD THEN PLZ, DO NOT POST HERE!!
if you spend the whole afternoon griefing someone, say attacking for 10 damage every 2 seconds, your gonna do something like 300 damage a minute, and like 18,000 an hour, etc. you get the picture.
otoh, an axe warrior will probably do a grand total of 500 damage to one guy (in a normal 1 min team arena fight), but the difference is that one guy is dead.
so the question is, why did 500 damage kill him from an axe warrior while 18,000 damage from the paladin didnt?
the answer (and this should be obvious) is that if someone is healing himself, they can heal for X damage per second and be just fine. do more than X damage and they die, do less and nothing happens.
if as a paladin, you are using your self heals to 'stay alive longer' thus allowing you to do 'more damage', you should realize that in effect you are doing absolutely nothing. the amount of damage a paladin does is so pitifully small that a mesmer spamming ether feast can outheal it.
so all in all, sure you spend alot more time alive, you just dont do anything in that time. and this isnt counting the times where someone actually bothers to kill you. Yes yes, 500 dmg, I really want to see you kill my monk with your silly little axe........pff, only mesmers and rangers can really kill a monk you moron!
I'm going to say this ONE LAST TIME.
DROP IT!
THIS THREAD IS MADE FOR PALADINS AND THAT IS ALL. POINT. FINAL. STROKE.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY IN ORDER TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS THREAD THEN PLZ, DO NOT POST HERE!!
JYX
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Originally Posted by smurfhunter
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Originally Posted by Stormbringer
Cause I do not burn all our monks energy
Intentional or not, you raise a decent point. Theres plenty of ways of adding to your monk's energy which doesn't include the need to use really bad self-heals/prots. Succor on 2 monks for instance combined with Battle Rage for full adrenal offense.
On another note some peeps on this thread are serious competitors for the new Ian Boyd rii
Yeah, everous
Red Locust
You guys need to straighten up. Granted, Paladins aren't the best build around, but if the man wants to discuss them, either follow suit or stay out of the thread. This isn't an instant messaging service, it's a forum about discussing builds. Useless one-liner posts belong on PMs.
entropy
Do people really need to argue simple math? Only mesmers or rangers can kill a real monk? So then all the monks in Ca/TA must suck even though I do it all the time. I mean they aren't real monks right? I mean no GvG team runs an Axe warrior because they never do enough spike dmg to kill a monk right??? Stormbringer you act like your the only one with any logic yet your logic is total bullshit. Spike is the metagame. Constant damage can suck a monks ass. They can just go use orison to heal everyone then for gods sakes. You keep complaining about the 6-28 axe damage range well you know what eviscerate has an auto deep wound so 20% is gone +the damage you do. I am much much much more scared of 1 hammer warrior than 4 paladins. OMG you just bleed me again and again and that will kille me yea fo sure!. Mend ailemnt FTW. Galrath+final is pitiful in comparison the Eviscerate+executioners. yes eviscerate is elite but what else are you gonna use as a sword warrior what elite? Battle rage? That just doesn't spike very well as its not an IAS. Hundred blades sucks unless you are hugely buff stacked which a warrior cannot pull of. Your posts lean toward swords and all you try to do is justify your use for them. Even though this has been explained again and again do a fricking search read with an open mind and learn. Until the metagame changes paladins suck. Thats about it.
Sharpe_116
W/mo ... are... meh meh for pvp.... if the main reason i would use a war monk would be to atrract all the fire power from casters.... let them smack me around, i would be able to tank there for a quite long while... but the problem is... people are not idiots. They see that a tank is clubbing their monk. they ignore it, KILL EVERYONE ELSE, then kill the warrior. Now the thing with average damage.... is so un true. U could carry galraths, final, pure strike, etc. warrior attack spells, they deal like 30 damage..... but if u load um all up and let em rip
 u could take any caster out. Now personally i dont use a w/mo for pvp. I use my w/mo as a solo/ team SMITER. He using a fu@#4ng WAND FOR GODS SAKES. he has about 1 point into swordminship or any other thing. I some times just put any randon meele wep onto him so hell run up to the enemy. All his attributes r into smiting and healing, and a lil tactics. this is how i play him, Rush into them, slap on my stance, load up breeze and mending, and while hes healing and stanced, i smite like a crazy lil sh#$. I can keep my self alive and deal more damage than any axe or sword warrior. Im not at home but ill try to remember the build Balz spirit Balz aura symbol of wrath bonnetis or glads i dont remember which... mending breeze if im not using glads stance it will be sheild of judgement. also, mabye spell breaker depending on what im going into ( dont count in SOJ and spell breaker into the build, im just stating the what if's.) And healing hands (what if) all the elite skills are cycled around depending on what i need for the trip, but healing hands is what i normmaly use whatch yourself Feel free to comment
qwe4rty
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Originally Posted by Stormbringer
Palas have the caster run skills too if you didn't notice, yes they are warriors too, OOOOOOOHHHH!!!!, plus they are NOT healer dependent (xcept in GVG and TOOMBS). |
Quote: Originally Posted by Stormbringer Low damage output????
Go to a psy.Only noob paladins do that. GET REAL! Yes, low damage out put. Why?
Your focusing in Weapon proficiency, Strength, and Heal.
Unless I'm wrong, HEAL does not damage enemies.
Warriors have the strongest armor, and should be targetted last, they do not need a whole attribute line for heal. If you want to heal your allies, be a monk, so you can have more mana, be more focussed in the Heal attribute, and divine favor.
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Yep, like I thought, you're blind.
This was concerning monks running from paladins or anything else.
When I play monk, I do NOT run from a paladin UNLESS I've been spiked and am low, and dont care for bleed/deep wound
When I see others play monk, same thing.
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Originally Posted by qwe4rty
Warriors have the strongest armor, and should be targetted last,
When I play monk, I do NOT run from a paladin UNLESS I've been spiked and am low, and dont care for bleed/deep wound
When I see others play monk, same thing.
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Oh man, in the builds I posted i focused on heal, cause in C.A., if you kill a player, OUUUUPS, maybe another one comes and kills you since you do not have any heal nor monk, even if you have endure pain, you're screwed!!! G'day life, I'll miss ya!|
Originally Posted by Stormbringer
If he knows what to use he can do that quite fast. Faster than an axe user.
I believe Final thrust is what, 10 adrenaline? and it clears all that you have stored? Not to mention Final is conditional, they have to be less than 50% for it to be any good. How are you going to get them below 50% w/ just galrath slash and bleeding? Thats what i thought.
Eviscerate = 7 adrenaline, no conditions I'm NOT against W/Mos at all. When people say paladin, more than likely, they are referring to a healer like the prebuild, not any warrior with monk secondary. I have no grief against W/Mos, I infact love them for another attribute line. All im trying to say is that a warrior w/ self heal attribute line is INEFFICIENT
Stormbringer
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe4rty
Your focusing in Weapon proficiency, Strength, and Heal. Unless I'm wrong, HEAL does not damage enemies. |
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by qwe4rty This was concerning monks running from paladins or anything else.
When I play monk, I do NOT run from a paladin UNLESS I've been spiked and am low, and dont care for bleed/deep wound
When I see others play monk, same thing. Strange, I see only running monks everywhere....
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Well, since you do have the larget armor in game, you will last longest. If you focus on Damage, you and your team can actually kill them before they kill you, that is, if you don't attack there warriors first.|
Originally Posted by qwe4rty
I believe Final thrust is what, 10 adrenaline? and it clears all that you have stored? Not to mention Final is conditional, they have to be less than 50% for it to be any good. How are you going to get them below 50% w/ just galrath slash and bleeding? Thats what i thought.
OOUPS, and if they are targeted? If you have no monk?
Eviscerate = 7 adrenaline, no conditions KK, I can respect that, but as I said, leave me to my noble sword and I'll leave you to your noble axe. Quote:
You still have the largest armor in the game. By your reasoning, everyone should have monk secondary with heal? Or is it only guys with the most armor?
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Originally Posted by Stormbringer
KK, I can respect that, but as I said, leave me to my noble sword and I'll leave you to your noble axe.
I have nothing against swords. I'm just saying, the way you are playing sword isnt making the best of its abilities. From what I've found, W/Mo is better with axe than sword. If you want to stay with sword, go W/Nec w/ virulence. You'll get max degen vs them and tons of other conditions. Bleeding (sever artery), poison (virulence) , disease (virulence), deep wound (gash), weakness (virulence), cripple (hamstring), and you still have room for galrath and final. Quote:
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