Monks, most valuable classes?

Everywhere I go, all I hear is, "LFG monks," or "Prot monk and healer needed." I'm not trying to flame or anything, its just that most parties these day (whether a farming or a mission party) are in need of monks. I know I know, monks are very very useful when it comes to partying but what about the other classes? I'm pretty sure they feel left out. Post your opinions

Oh and if anything.. I'm sorry--I'm new to the forum ^.~

well evuntually people will realiz we need the other professions.

My mesmer groups with henchies most of the time. Although I did get groups for Thunderhead Keep and Ring of Fire. I felt so useful as a mesmer as when we took that bitch Monk boss down in RoF. My group actually praised me.

I'd take any class in any PUG I started though.

rangers are pretty left out too. most people prefer tanks for their physical people. For pvp though, trapper and disruptors (cough... me.... cough....) usually are welcome

Monk-healing and (to a lesser degree) protecting is the cornerstone of almost any defensive strategy. After all, if you have nothing to keep your health up, you need to kill either very, very fast, prevent damage on a massive scale or see your team die. So, monks are in demand, generally, especially in pve, as you cannot just make a monk for that, like you can for pvp.

That is why it would be great if the next chatper had another profession that could heal as well as the monk, or maybe not as well, but as energy efficient, or that would have some power that could perform the same function.

Maybe a druid would be an option for that (or a shadow monk, a priest, a shaman or something).

No point in that, Roza. It's not the profession, it's the role that most people hate to play.

Multiple healing classes do not tend to create that many more healers. Even then, even if an additional Healing Profession would be on par with Monk, it'd still be practically the same if not worse. People will want the established "best" (IE: easiest to use and understand) and be less willing to take the alternative.

i love playing my Monk... seeing players type "nice healing" or "awesome job monk" makes my day

and like roza said... monks are in high demand for PvE atleast... because... well u need someone to keep u alive while ur attacking

Monks are in demand because of the lack of reliable Self-Healing. They are the one class that most parties cannot go without. If you don't have a Warrior, you can make do with another defensive person. No Necro or Mesmer? Make do (most people dont take them anyways ). Missing a ranger? Use an ele. Missing an ele? Use almost any character specced to damage. Missing a monk? Now you have to rely on the sub-par self heals for each profession. Monks are "required" because of the lack of a fool-proof way of self healing (potions and the like)

(These are my observations, and are jsut based on the "normal" function played by the majority of the classes. I am by no means saying that all the classes are one sided. *puts on flame suit*)

And here I was thinking that a) you can do without a monk, those self-heals actually heal you well enough and b) this game encourages diverse teams, meaning one of each profession and in the later part of the game, two more of any profession the team seems to think is useful.

Also, in most circumstances, Alesia is competent enough to heal you, as long as you realise that she doesn't have endless energy, but unlike a real monk, she doesn't tell you that she's low on it. (I say in most circumstances because I've seen her hate a Ele with a passion I had never seen before)

My main character is a monk - and as a monk, I prefer to have 1 (or two, but usually only one) stance warrior with me. endure pain + defy pain + dolyak signet is usually enough.

Also, I like having 1 nuker, and 1 ranger for interrupts. for the rest of the professions, I dont really mind having them come along. A good minion master or BiP battery is very nice to have, as well as a good renewal nuker and interrupt ranger.

I think more people need to realize that monking isn't always easy (heals don't magically come from infinite energy pools), and sometimes you have to let a party member die in order keep the remaing party members alive to accomplish the objective. (you know what I mean: that one nuker that refuses to move away from the mob, and thinks that because he has a lvl 18 fireball, he's the most important person on the team since he can do massive damage.)

Well IMO monks and warriors are must have for any party, but there are more tanks than than demand. However, there are fewer monks than tanks so it becomes harder to get them then tanks.

Rangers are left out a bit. Not very many people realize the things rangers can bring to battle. A trapper ranger is the most common, but traps don't become available until late.

Nukers are crucial, but not necassary. I've beaten plenty of mission w/o a nuker though it is really hard and there abilities are really helpful. Again there also seems to quite a few of these though I have found myself searching for nukers.

Mesmers and Necro are raising in popularity IMO. Battery Necro are better than mesmers, but the anti-war. skills of a mesmer are helpful. I have found myself really appreciating the skills of any battery necro in my party.

Either way, I hope to see something done in chapter 2 to lessen the dependance on a sole class. If every tombs group basically had to have 3 mesmers to compete, people might complain that they were overpowered. But no one cares that 3 monks are needed to run a decent group. (I'm not saying there aren't good builds that don't use 3 monks, but this is the standard)

in pvp and gvg i find that my monk is the best because no-one dies.

But monks are not the most played char because they cannot do as much damage and mostely are not allowed to use other spells but healing

The easiest way I can see this solved (which should prob be mentioned in that one channel) is to have chars use runes of secondary prof in the next chapter, that way I think no professon will be left out too much.

Like I always say, all prof combos can be very good when u just think, this game was supppose to be skill, lol even says it on the box i think.

Well we monks sure are in demand

However, I believe it's simply due to the lack of people who play monk. More often than not when I join a PuG they already have n-1 slots filled with a mix of the various classes, and they are simply looking for a monk to complete the team.

Monks are in demand because there are fewer to go around, not because they are a more important class per se. Most people prefer doing damage - rather than healing others.

being a monk is not nice u get all the flack from other people if thay die

its not my falt thay had 40 people on u stupid runsher and it will be nice if u waited till i had some mana 2 heal u with fool

This is SO not true. There are plenty of people playing monks now. More than say, a Mesmer, but you still dont see Mesmers in demand do you?

It's just simply that Monks are too necessary and very very very effective at what they do. No other class is so in demand....which is a problem.

But yeah, in general monks are useful, and a lot of people rather play damage dealers. Which is why they are spammed in chat.

Oh, really? Who have you been playing, to never have a death?

Monks are great to have , but not having a monk is not the show stopper for rangers as it is for others. Ranger only groups can go anywhere in game. I've done "ring of fire" with all rangers, UW and even FoW quests Someone even posted a walk though of all rangers to doing Thunderhead Keep. And sometimes we don't get much healing anyway when in groups, so you learn to play different. We got a self heal and a group heal. They are not great but you learn to function within their limitations. There is nothing in this game that can't be trapped, spiked out, or interupted. Sometimes it takes thought but it can be done.

As far as being left out yeah, rangers are hated pure and simple. I've stood in ToA many times for 90 minutes only to log out without getting a group for FoW my favorite place ingame. It comes from the joy of being mean imho. People like to "belong" and the holy trinity is a private club. Because people can act like they don't know what we do, but the one thing they do know is they don't want us coming for them. When they see a ranger on the other side of the areana coming at them, every class has the same thought "aahh crap" because they know its gonna be a rough fight regardless of win, lose or draw.

I have a monk and a warrior and when i am looking to do a mission with my monk i advertise and i get a bunch of replies half the time when i do it with my war i dont really get any,But yeah everyone likes to have a monk even if it prot just to be a helping hand when needed.

I agree that there are plenty of monks around say Ascalon City and in many of the lower-level areas. But as you progress to the higher levels the number of monks (from my perspective) appears to dwindle.

I am obviously basing my opinon solely on observation. Whenever I hang around in a town, I rarely see another monk. Now of course I may not see a mesmer either, and perhaps that's because I'm not looking for them - a fact that may simply confirm the OP's viewpoint.

It would be interesting to see some stats on class distribution - if they exist.

There are a lot of good players out there, but also a lot of really miserable ones, who don't know a thing about strategy, team play and technique. It is these bad players that find such a need for monks.

I've played PVE GW for a long time now, and from my experiences:

- Far less healing is needed if the team plays intelligently and as a team. Sticking together, luring, targetting, etc. If parties played like this, then one monk would be sufficient. And that one monk would also find some time to deal some damage as well, with either a smiting or a secondary profession skill. When teams play poorly, two monks are not enough, and they are totally busy, and out of energy, trying to heal the party.

- Henchy monks are an excellant replacement for human monks, when human monks are not available. Granted, every party should have a monk, maybe two later in the game. But there is no reason to stand around a mission town crying Monk Monk Please Join Us when there are no monks who want to do so. Somebody the other day objected to the fact that I took a henchy elementalist in the party (there were no human elementalists available), saying that henchies are terrible. My answer to him was that henchies are simply mirrors of ourselves. They suck of our technique and strategy suck. They perform well if we play intelligently. And this goes for henchy monks, I have used them often and by now for each mission in the game.

- Each profession has a way of healing themselves. Playing smartly, carefully, as a team, backing away and retreating when needed will reduce the depency of a party on monks. And in fact, a lot of quests and missions can then be done without any monks at all, although it may take more time and much more care.

I am now playing my 4th character which is a monk. And I hate getting into a party in which the team members play so stupidly that I need to be healing all the time. Doh, there is such a thing as backing off. I hate being thought of as a constant source of HP that simply has to be there or the mission can't be completed. I am learning some strategies of my own: I tend not to heal players who play stupidly, or who position themselves too far away from me and the rest of the group, or who constantly yell things like "heal monk".

Oh, and another thing: I also like to smite and use my necro secondary profession, and I am sure there are a lot of other monks out there who feel the same. Whats the point? Read the above and learn how to reduce your dependency on human monk players for healing!

I wonder if solo farming plays a role in the dwindling numbers of high level monks available for regular group outtings...

possibly. also monk is not a class that most people would use as their first char. it tends to be your third or forth char. this makes it unlikely that it will get taken all the way through the story. it will likely ascend then either PvP, farm or do FoW and UW. i know that MY monk hasn't finished fire islands yet. i've been through those missions before and they are sooo time consuming.

No. monks are not needed in an extraordinarily organised group. in a guild group say you can quite easily do Thunderhead Keep with Alesia as your only healer.
however. all those groups 'LF HEALER!1!11!!!!!'? they are PUGs. They DO need a human monk. or two. I challenge you Coolsti to go and complete TK or a fire island mission in a PUG (no friends, no familiarity) without a healer or two. you have a day. once you beat the problem of getting your team to actually try it without a monk you will encounter the trouble of one player running through a gate at the wrong time. or aggroing by accident. and THAT is only if the whole group is made up of nice guys.

Whilst henchies have superhuman reflexes they have no energy management skills. no judgement. no problem solving skills. they have no flexability.

Henchies work in a patient, competent team. PUGs rarely fulfill both qualities.

Charcoal Ann,

I won't take on your challenge, I agree with you 100%. What I was trying to point out was not that monks are not needed, but that this seemingly desperate and huge dependency on human monks is unwarranted.

After my experiences I agree completely that PUGs in general lack the patience and playing skills to complete a mission without constant healing from one, maybe two monks. But I also believe that the dependency on this "HP infusion" from monks can be cut down significanty if PUGs just used their heads and learned to play correctly. As I wrote in my post, then people can play with henchy monks with success when human monks are not available. And then the human monks can also have some fun in the missions and do something else besides run around and heal. The monks can then heal when needed, but then smite or whatever their secondaries allow them to do when not needed.

I've played in good groups where I rarely had to heal. Instead, I used the two necro curses skills I had equipped to weaken the enemy. I've then played the very same missions with bad groups where I had to spend all my time and energy healing. Guess which situation I prefer?

There are circumstances, many of them, where healing by monks is absolutely necessary to survive a battle. But I am of the opinion that the strategy of tanking an enemy group with the expectation that a monk is two steps away with a constant supply of new hit points is wrong. Of course in many cases it can't be helped: you attack a few foes and you suddenly get swamped, and the only way to survive is through that monk. But to me it seems that this kind of tactic is the norm, i.e. go in and tank and expect to be constantly healed, and then scream at the monk when for whatever reason that just doesn't happen.

My general dislike is how if your a warrior, elementalist or monk, you never have any trouble getting into parties for anything or UW/FoW.

If you anything else no one wants to know unless there a situation that calls for it, for example Rangers are popular in the Ring of Fire only because they have Winter! Or Mesmers on Tunderhead Keep due to the overkill Monk boss!

Only time me and my ranger go down the FoW is when I go with guildies.

I glad everyday in PvP I prove that Rangers don't suck.. nothing funnier then a Warrior trying to kill me while I use Throw dirt on him/her

yeah i know the feeling of not being wanted in FoW with my ranger, so i just go to UW with a trapping group and have an equal amount of fun =P and IMO the drops are better (i got 2 ecto's and a gold req. 8 uni'd storm bow)

Ya so true, monks especially, but then again some ppl u party with may be dumb and henchies might be better allies
Also y dont u try the solo UW ranger build is pretty cool.

Rangers are the best characters to my opinion. I usually have to fight ppl over this and i hope i dont have to fight anyone here for it.....

I don't think that there are less Monks playing. I think their are less PvE Monks playing ..Missions..

Go to Augury Rock any dist. and your likely to find half the Dist. full of Monks running in and out farming.

Add that to the fact that most Warriors follow the creed "Hit stuff and let Monk heal me" and you get a good dependency..Most warriors will just quit a mission if the monk leaves or they dont have one..

I don't know how many times I've joined a PUG where the warriors think there should be 1-2 monks PER WARRIOR or they just quit once we enter the mission. Thats just crazy :\ Silly Warriors with no self protection - Trix are for kids.

Yes man totally agree with u. As monk one of the things to do is farm at the end u know and i dont think pve monks are being made because like i hear many ppl dont like to watch the party bar and heal or prot.
Warriors are silly they go all out and start to curse of the monk."why didnt u heal me man sheesh dumb monk".... "well maybe if u are not on the OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP i would heal u"

Exactly. There is NO mission/quest that could not be done with the henchie monks + selfheals that ALL other classes have, except FoW, UW, Furnace and titan quests.

The problem lies in the fact that most players can't think outside the cage and want a 2-monk escort for whatever they do.

I have done even Thunderhead and all of the ring of fire missions with a group of people + henchie monks: starting from the desert the henchie monks are better than at least 50% of the real random monks anyway.

There are lots and lots of monks. At Augury's Rock or UW solo'ing Just go look, or have a look at the vid I posted in the Nolani Academy section.

As for the rest of the place in PvE I play a healer as well and probably the main thing that puts off most monks are the ingrates and insulting types who don't understand why one monk can't always keep alive a team of 8 when they all rush forward or the tank decides to go five miles deep into enemy territory and then wonders why he's dying rapidly. Basically: insults etc are quick to come by for monks, praise for saving people's butts much less so. Add in a few more factors like wa/Mo's and (for some reason?) Ele's thinking they can rush everything in existence, it's kind of understandable monks don't want to do that full time.

While henchie monks are good, this still doesn't address the point that monks are pretty much essential.

It is entirely possible to run a party without any of the other classes, but you nearly always need a monk or two, even if it is the henchies.

Exactly! And that is why I am enjoying playing my monk character. I just ignore the insults and play the best I can in the way that I think suits the game best. I won't bust my butt to heal an idiot that rushes or doesn't know when to pull back. (I won't rez someone who insults me). Otherwise I heal the best I can when needed, and try to contribute in other ways besides healing when possible. If someone complains that I don't heal well enough that is ok with me.

It is quite funny when people think they are going to be automatically invincible when there's a monk on-board - particularly the warriors who seem to have left their armour off after taking part in one of those pool parties

Warrior: monk, just keep me alive!
2 milliseconds later
Warrior: omg monk - why didn't you heal me!

solution = start your own group

"No point in that, Roza. It's not the profession, it's the role that most people hate to play."

True. But that is why having some other class that is a good but non-dedicated healer may be good. A healing monk needs to go all healing to be most effective. An 'alternative healing class' could be made to have offensive capabilities while still being an energy efficient healer. For example, a druid character that can transform into a good melee tank while still having good a few heals, or a 'shadow-priest' kind of character that can summon a phantom/demon or something while healing on a parr with a monk. This could be achieved if that class had one or two good healing skills in an attribute that is otherwise not all about healing (and does not need help from another attribute like divine for healing monks).

"People will want the established "best" (IE: easiest to use and understand) and be less willing to take the alternative."

True as well, but this will always be a problem. That is why there are still so many War/mo's out there. In PvE, less easy to play or understand and less fashionable classes will always have a hard time finding PuG's. And the same is true for PvP. But if there is a good healing alternative for monks, this class will become popular in 'higher lvl' PvP (and that popularity will trickle down a little to popularity among a greater circle of players, as has happened with mesmers).

hmmm... Sometimes when i'm a monk, i ask the the lvl 20 warrior
"Dude is ur armour made of paper?"
Some of the tanks dont even know about knights armour + absorbtion runes. Or even about the -x dmg when enchanted shield.

Monks are neccessary. However, too many monks = less dmg dealt. 2 monks should be more than enuf to hold a 8 man team together. Unless its the dragons lair and the pesky health degen area, most circumstances, 2 monks, that is 1 heal and 1 protect can support a group of 8. The trick is, everyone needs to know what to do.

Which most people dont. When the monk get's hit what do the warriors do? they go hit otherstuff. Brilliant. The idea of protecting the soft but important player is not even thought of. How can the monk heal someone if he's dead?

The moment u have the possiblity of idiots in the team, then u'd need another monk. Have a complete idiot, and probably a monk with infinite energy wont be able to save him.

See that is why me and some people think that all players should play a monk.
It teaches how monks act and u will also feel how other monks feel. u also will see how the skills a monks uses are essential and u will learn when they are most vulnerable. playing a monk help my warrior to first not act stupid and not to lead the team in danger. I also learned what i should kill rather than just go out and kill stuff. and my friend said for mesmer it teaches u when to interrupt.

There's onle 3 reasons you need a monk for every mission:

1. you can't aggro effectively and your AOE damage is only hitting 2-3 enemy NPCs.
2. your warrior thinks he is a damage dealer and thus refused to bring defensive stances.
3. tactics and skill are foreign words to you and anything other than running in casting meteor shower + Firestorm + hacking and slashing is unheard of.