Whats so good about 10/10 armour penetration on weapon? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Akagi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Singapore

R/Mo

07 Nov 2005 at 06:47 - 1

whats so good about it? its only 10% chance and only do penetration of 10%? 10% is that really alot? dont really make a diff to me.. can any1 tell me whats so good about it.. i rather put mods such as inc poi length duration/bleeding/deepwound then 10/10 armour penetration.. sundering mod really like useless to me =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by cagan

On the plus side, peoples desire for this mod leaves the other, 'better' mods cheaper to obtain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daegul Mistweaver

It's something that people put on weapons along with 30 fortitude in order to have the excuse to charge double the price.

Wasteland Squidget

I'm back?

Join Date: Sep 2005

Here.

Delta Formation [DF]

W/E

07 Nov 2005 at 07:00 - 2

Statistically, it's about the equivilant of one point of strength.

So you're right, it isn't very much at all. People just want to have the best items possible, skill aside, so in those rare situations where they need that extra point of damage they'll have it.

nightrunner

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

San Francisco

W/Mo

07 Nov 2005 at 07:00 - 3

Personally, I really don't care for the sundering mod at all. Even when I do get the extra AP, it's barely noticeable. I like Vamp a lot more - you get nearly the same extra damage, every time, and if you're using an attack speed boost you get a little bonus HP as well

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

07 Nov 2005 at 07:01 - 4

It's the possibility to do more damage. There's no actual mod that makes the weapon do more damage (vampiric isn't damage). A possiblity of more damage is better compared to no possible more damage.

I personally would go for furious/vampiric.

Makkert

Black Beast of Aarrrrgghh

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB] // Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

07 Nov 2005 at 07:21 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

It's the possibility to do more damage. There's no actual mod that makes the weapon do more damage (vampiric isn't damage). A possiblity of more damage is better compared to no possible more damage.

I personally would go for furious/vampiric.

You are right. Vampiric isn't damage. It's lifesteal. It bypasses armor.
hmm. 1% armorpenetration or 5 extra armorignoring points? Yup Yup, vampiric it is when I want pain.

~ Makk.

Orochim4ru

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

mustache riders

07 Nov 2005 at 07:36 - 6

vamp adds on the life steal to each hit, not convert existing dmg into life steal.

vamp deals the most damage over time by far. Even if you're lucky and get the pen on a crit executioners strike or something similar, you are going to deal around 30 extra damage. this is around the same damage that you'd have done with the vamp getting the adren.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

07 Nov 2005 at 07:44 - 7

Very likely the worst mod in the game. No way to justify it at all, given the fact that all the other prefixes work 100% of the time. The extremely high popularity is just another embarassing example of the quality of the average player these days.

Akagi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Singapore

R/Mo

07 Nov 2005 at 07:57 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Very likely the worst mod in the game. No way to justify it at all, given the fact that all the other prefixes work 100% of the time. The extremely high popularity is just another embarassing example of the quality of the average player these days.

LOL!! worst? i personally thinks that the worst mod is +attribute(20% chance highest).. then follow by sundering =/

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

07 Nov 2005 at 08:11 - 9

Hm, when it comes to 20%attrib, or sundering, let's just say I would never put either mod on a weapon I was seriously thinking about using.

QoH

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Divine Beings

R/

07 Nov 2005 at 08:33 - 10

I play mostly as a ranger, my experience,
I read in a "ranger faq" that every +1 attribute on marksmanship equals -5 Armor Level on opponent. And the 20% is when u use skills, if u dont u get the bonus always. I calculated out, that with the 20% grip u can deal slightly more damage than the sundering 10%.
Of course with vamp u get the highest damage, but bows are pretty slow weapons unfortunately).

Akagi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Singapore

R/Mo

07 Nov 2005 at 08:39 - 11

for vamp 5/-1.. every hit it steals 5 hp.. and that means every hit +5 damage regardless of ap?

judge1121

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Outlaws Of Ascalon

Mo/

07 Nov 2005 at 13:24 - 12

ya regardless

Quote:

Originally Posted by QoH

I play mostly as a ranger, my experience,
I read in a "ranger faq" that every +1 attribute on marksmanship equals -5 Armor Level on opponent. And the 20% is when u use skills, if u dont u get the bonus always. I calculated out, that with the 20% grip u can deal slightly more damage than the sundering 10%.
Of course with vamp u get the highest damage, but bows are pretty slow weapons unfortunately).

well a tigers fury and a barrage kik ass with it u hit 2-8 ppl and u steal 10-40 life, not bad and not to think with other pile on dmg u have u could be doing 90 dmg a hit

.

Ollj

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

07 Nov 2005 at 13:35 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Statistically, it's about the equivilant of one point of strength.

So you're right, it isn't very much at all. People just want to have the best items possible, skill aside, so in those rare situations where they need that extra point of damage they'll have it.

no its not.
strenght only gives armor penetration on warrior attack SKILLS (and a bonus on strenght skills), the upgrade gives ~1 armor penetration every hit.

to all the people who love vampiric energy stuff, i just love you being blinded blocked evaded or just slowed down!

Man With No Name

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Manchester, UK

W/

07 Nov 2005 at 13:35 - 14

Another one of these oO....

Vampiric, Zealous and the Elemental types really are the only mod's you should consider. A 1 in 10 chance to get "Double Adrenaline" or "+10% Penetration" absolutely pales when compared to hitting for 3 more damage per hit every time ( Vamp ) or by gaining energy pet hit ( Zealous ).

If 1 in 10 odds we're favourable, why haven't I won the lottery yet..??

And as for prefix's it comes down to:
- +30 Health
- +5 Armour
- +20% Longer Enchantments

I've gotta say I'm even prefering the +5 armour on my Warrior atm rather than the extra bit of health. I had a paladin that was constantly hitting me for 0 on normal hits ( and even when using Sever + Gash ). 455 HP is more than enough.

Kriegar

Cowbell Boy

Join Date: Apr 2005

Great Lakes, IL

Treacherous Empire

07 Nov 2005 at 13:42 - 15

455hp is nowhere near enough in top end GvG.

The only mods you'll see people using at the top of the ladder is: Vampiric, Zealous, Elemental, Fortitude.

This is assuming they have a clue.

Itok

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

07 Nov 2005 at 13:59 - 16

I ahve to differ a bit from the normal course of experiences and wisdon listed here.

I began playing wiht a sundering string this weekend on my Ranger. 7% string (was a drop bow, I've never really thought it much good tbh) on a mursaat horn bow. Runnin with a group at SF and FoW. Just normal, no buff shots really dont knock MOBs about. But, when the sundering hit would go through, it seems to make a significant difference in dmg delt. On a Dwarf WArrior type, usual hit seems ot be 9-20. The sundering shot seemed to hit 30+ and crits over 45. So, my experience while limited seems a bit different than those above. I have not, tested, scrutenized or even studied this. My statement is based on casual observation only.

Having stated the above, a 5/1 string on a sweet 15^50 with barrage is FAR better than sliced bread and wireless phones tbh. There is nothing more satisfying than the +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 +5 in teh distance accomplanied wiht teh same over yer head. lol. Even if it wasn't more DoT, jsut the influx of stolen health can establish wood.

=D

Mysterial

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Servants of Fortuna

E/Me

07 Nov 2005 at 14:42 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

I've gotta say I'm even prefering the +5 armour on my Warrior atm rather than the extra bit of health. I had a paladin that was constantly hitting me for 0 on normal hits ( and even when using Sever + Gash ). 455 HP is more than enough.

+5 armor is better against hits that actually hit armor; it prevents more than the +30 health gives you. Of course, if you're against armor ignoring damage, it does nothing whatsoever and the health bonus is better.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

07 Nov 2005 at 15:34 - 18

As I said, I prefer a furious to build adrenaline and a vampiric to give that constant +3 'damage' per hit. Sundering can be worse or better than vampiric, so it's not really a case of what is better, but what you prefer. More to the point, which suits the build better.

If I was going for a pressure build I'd go for sundering over vampiric as it's not the amount of damage you do, but the constant output of damage you do which can vary with the sundering mod. I also would always go for the +5 armour mod any day over the +30hp. The only time I would say otherwise is as a build heavy on enchantments which the obvious choice is clear.

Pompeyfan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Isle of Wight

DVDF

R/

07 Nov 2005 at 17:44 - 19

Vampric 5/-1 is great on a fast bow with barrage and live vicariously - 13-65 points of healing per shot

I too cannot see why sundering 10/10 is so sought after, particularly at the prices the mods go for, but then I can see why people pay 100's k for a 15^50 bow or sword either, especially when a 25k 14^50 only loses about .3 of a point of damage against high end stuff on average, and even on weak stuff you only lose 2 points on a 200 point damage shot which is negligable.

If you want armour penetration then surely a horn or shadow bow (which have 10% armour penetration built in apparently) and penetrating shot (20% armour pen) are a better bet? especially with favorable winds to offset that .2 of a sec long each shot takes with the slowest bow.

Pompeyfan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Isle of Wight

DVDF

R/

07 Nov 2005 at 17:44 - 20

Vampric 5/-1 is great on a fast bow with barrage and live vicariously - 13-65 points of healing per shot

I too cannot see why sundering 10/10 is so sought after, particularly at the prices the mods go for, but then I can see why people pay 100's k for a 15^50 bow or sword either, especially when a 25k 14^50 only loses about .3 of a point of damage against high end stuff on average, and even on weak stuff you only lose 2 points on a 200 point damage shot which is negligable.

If you want armour penetration then surely a horn or shadow bow (which have 10% armour penetration built in apparently) and penetrating shot (20% armour pen) are a better bet? especially with favorable winds to offset that .2 of a sec long each shot takes with the slowest bow.

Talin Verderben

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Columbus, Ohio

Guild of Calamatous Intent Officer

R/

07 Nov 2005 at 18:49 - 21

Heck, why even pay the 100k+ for a 15>50 bow at all, when there are just as good 15>50 bows to be aquired from collectors.

I am running a Poisoners Ascalon Bow of Fortitude currently. Req 9 max dmg, 15>50 +29 health and customized. Cost me squat, 5 Topaz crests. I love this bow and see no reason to waste all that money on a high end bow. Got the items to trade for the shortbow version now and I am going to go grab it tonight. Look for a Vamp string (prefer this to the 10/10 sundering for many of the reasons posted here) and either a Fort grip or +5 Defense grip. Unsure yet.

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 06:06 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talin Verderben

Heck, why even pay the 100k+ for a 15>50 bow at all, when there are just as good 15>50 bows to be aquired from collectors.

I might be mistaken, but last time I checked, you cannot get all variations of max damaxe, max native mod bows at collectors.

nightrunner

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

San Francisco

W/Mo

08 Nov 2005 at 06:53 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

I might be mistaken, but last time I checked, you cannot get all variations of max damaxe, max native mod bows at collectors.

All types of 15-28, req 9, +15% damage while HP > 50% are availible from collectors. They're all called Ascalon bow though.

Zrave

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 07:10 - 24

The weapon mod with "+1 weapon mastery - 20% chance" doesn't affect your natural weapon damage, only the damage from skills.

This means that it gives around 0.1% extra damage, depending on weapon/skill selection.

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

08 Nov 2005 at 07:45 - 25

to the OP: sundering mods are pretty much pointless. say you're a warrior with a sundering sword hilt. you, on average, deal around 42 damage to a spellcaster. 10% of 42 would be 4.2 more damage. so, 46.2 damage to your target would be what you end up with. it's not great at all, people just assumed that 10% was "t3h 00b3r" and would "pWn t3h n00b|3s" and such. they never bothered to do the calculations.

but, keep it on the low. i can still get other mods for cheaper because of these crazy prices for crappy mods like this.

kg_lildude1

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Lionheart Braves [LHB]

W/

08 Nov 2005 at 08:15 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Statistically, it's about the equivilant of one point of strength.

So you're right, it isn't very much at all. People just want to have the best items possible, skill aside, so in those rare situations where they need that extra point of damage they'll have it.

actually statistically it is a 10% chance to have the equivalent of 10 strength on that hit

Inziladun

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Netherlands

Knights of Arylius

R/Me

08 Nov 2005 at 08:54 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_lildude1

actually statistically it is a 10% chance to have the equivalent of 10 strength on that hit

What he means is, that since it's only a 10% chance, that once you hit for 10% Armour Piercing, that by the next time you hit with that 10% Piercing, you would of hit so many times without the bonus, that it would be watered down to a misely 1% average.

If that made sense

Jade

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Canada...... Eh!

08 Nov 2005 at 10:42 - 28

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a horn bow have an inherant armor penetration of 10% always? Wouldn't putting a sundering string on a horn bow then be worth having a total of 20%, even if it was only 10% of your hits?

kg_lildude1

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Lionheart Braves [LHB]

W/

08 Nov 2005 at 10:51 - 29

all bows have a % of armor penetration, but you must also take into account the distance, and height from you to your target

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

Wouldn't putting a sundering string on a horn bow then be worth having a total of 20%, even if it was only 10% of your hits?

armor penetration does not stack like that

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

08 Nov 2005 at 13:38 - 30

Yeah, actually, from what other people have said, it does, however, it would once again be more like 11% sundering, since .1*.1=.01 so a sundering string comes out to an average of 1% penetration each hit.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

08 Nov 2005 at 14:46 - 31

Actually, if you're lucky you can hit with that 10% AP all the time. Then again, you could never. 10% chance doesn't mean you will hit once every ten hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heist23

to the OP: sundering mods are pretty much pointless. say you're a warrior with a sundering sword hilt. you, on average, deal around 42 damage to a spellcaster. 10% of 42 would be 4.2 more damage. so, 46.2 damage to your target would be what you end up with. it's not great at all, people just assumed that 10% was "t3h 00b3r" and would "pWn t3h n00b|3s" and such. they never bothered to do the calculations.

but, keep it on the low. i can still get other mods for cheaper because of these crazy prices for crappy mods like this.

And that would be an extra 4.6, not 4.2dmg.

Talin Verderben

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Columbus, Ohio

Guild of Calamatous Intent Officer

R/

08 Nov 2005 at 15:28 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

I might be mistaken, but last time I checked, you cannot get all variations of max damaxe, max native mod bows at collectors.

They are all called Ascalon bows, but they have the stats of specific bows. My current bow fires like a Composite bow. I am going to be picking up the Shortbow version soon.

There are limits though, the only flatbow is 15% while enchanted, not quite as useful.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 15:32 - 33

Just did a test: went into comp arenas with some random prebuild and no points in marksmanship, brought an unmodded bow and a vamp bow. Attacked a warrior, all hits for 0 dmg. Put on vamp bow, all hits for 0 dmg but i'm getting 5 health per hit now. Attack a pet, all hits for 2-3 dmg. Put on a vamp bow, all hits for 2-3 dmg but i'm getting 5 health per hit now.

Conclusion: vamp bow adds no damage whatsoever, but merely gives you +5 per hit (even if it didn't do 5 dmg!), and changes your opponent view to show -5 of their damage as life stealing. Looks like sundering is the only string mod that increases damage. IMO all the strings suck unless you need ele damage.

Yes, my teammates were rather upset.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

08 Nov 2005 at 15:45 - 34

The +5 vamp damage per hit does not ignore damage reduction, MuKen. So, if he had one piece of knight's armor, a -2 damage shield and a minor rune of absorption, your attack would have done zero damage still.

Saerden

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 15:54 - 35

Is it me or is this thread riddled with wrong information? Wheres Ensign when you need him? I could try to clarify some points (last time i checked, vamp hilt is +X unreducable dmg ON TOP of your regular dmg, which you receive as health), but after reading the "noone uses +armor mod" from Kriegar i might be considered out of touch with the game. I have to assume that people only use armor-ignoring damage now, since Ensign calculated that the armor mod usually offeres better protection against everything.

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 15:55 - 36

That's why I tried it on the pet too, or was he also wearing absorption and knight's boots?

Also, just did this test as well: distracting shot with and without vamp mod. Always does the same damage. I am quite certain that all the vamp mod does is give you 5 health per attack, no extra damage.

Mr D J

Permanently Unbanned

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 15:59 - 37

i dont really see a point in it either cuz u hit more dmg in 1 of every 10 hits but vampiric deals more dmg every time (well -1 regen is fixable by mending)

MuKen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

08 Nov 2005 at 16:15 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker The Owner

i dont really see a point in it either cuz u hit more dmg in 1 of every 10 hits but vampiric deals more dmg every time (well -1 regen is fixable by mending)

Err, I JUST POSTED a test with that shows that vampiric does not do any more damage ever. Now, if you'd like to point out some flaws somewhere in my testing methodology or an equally concrete evidence that contradicts what I'm saying, that's one thing, but plz avoid unqualified assertions to the contrary.

Align

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Protectors of Awesome[AWE]

W/

08 Nov 2005 at 16:52 - 39

Vampiric does damage separate from your weapons damage, so I dunno if you get to see the -5 float up like you do with other damage.
However, I've been on the recieving end with my warrior; thanks to my buffs I took 0 damage from the guys attack, but still lost 5 each hit to "Vampiric". Total absorption of 4, for the record. Vamp ignores all.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

08 Nov 2005 at 17:03 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker The Owner

i dont really see a point in it either cuz u hit more dmg in 1 of every 10 hits but vampiric deals more dmg every time (well -1 regen is fixable by mending)

I repeat, 10% chance != 1 every 10.