Warriors = Overused?

That is what I added the..."at least in some places."

hmm... okay sorry, i think i incorrectly parsed your sentence...

i parsed it as: "you don't need warriors, especially since you can succeed at this mission without them."

i think you meant: "in some areas you do not need warriors"

sorry about that... :P

Hm.. my perfect group has two eles in it and only one warrior. This is from the perspective of monk and ele. Healing 1 warrior is easier than two, and as ele, I like having a pyromancer around so I can go hydro.

I also have a warrior, sorta needed that to unlock skills. And yes, I'm finding it's hard in the later missions to get a team as warrior, yet, standing at elona's reach with my mesmer, I keep getting blind invites.

Playing warrior has been challenging, and at times VERY boring. to top it off, I had to get to the dessert before I learned how to tank and accept that warriors did no damage.

I've never really played a warrior and don't plan to (just not my style), but I'm amazed by how much hate they are getting here! Yeesh!

It seems to me that the arguement is that too many warriors are overconfident idiots who run in, aggro everything, play unintelligently,etc.... my arguement would be... GOOD!

I mean, of course people who like to run up and smash things tend to choose the warrior class. It's a personality thing Half the fun of playing GW Online is partying with 8 different personalities while having a blast. Think about it, the game would be boring if every Warrior was intelligent and held perfect aggro, and made rationale decisions all the time, THAT WOULD SUCK! Missions that go smoothly everytime are NOT FUN to play. I laugh when I see the warrior (or any other class) do something rash. "Here we go again !"

Just realize that everyone has a different playing style. Just because your style is to make cautious, calculated, efficient decisions, doesn't mean everyone else has to. If everyone played the game your way it wouldn't be exciting.

In summary GW would suck without stupid people.

W/MO idiots FTW

LOL! This is sorta true... although it's great when a mish goes flawlessly, you're right... if it happened all the time that WOULD be boring.

Still, couldn't the stupid Warriors wait until I finish Thunder Keep?

Have some feeligs for us War/Mo most of us are't that bad and the ones who should be taking the lead is the Ranger anyway.We are the only one who can res while in battle.How would you set up a six person team?I played Monk before i played War except in beta when I played War/N in beta.

These people are the exception. Some people JUST ARE idiots.

--The Shim

If everyone brings a res sig, you can keep them charged through most missions because there is usually a boss to kill for a nice recharge.

Res sig is the best res in the game, and it isnt restricted to a class.

I agree half/half with this. No, it's not the BEST rez in the game. I think restore life is because it's attributed towards healing prayers <as I'm a healing prayers monk, and each rank it raises the HP/Energy rezzed person is rezzed with>

But yes, it's nice when you kill bosses it recharges, and it isn't restricted, but still there is much better <see above>.

--The Shim

I won't comment on Warriors in PvE. I do know what a war can do in PvP however.

Warriors don't always seem to get this, but tanking is not needed in pvp most of the time (unless you are playing against inexperienced people). So 90% of all wa/mo's are not very useful, as they have about as much change to seriously trouble a couple of monks as a drunk of finding his keyhole. What warriors need is something from their secondary class to make them do more damage (or monks will simply outheal them with ease). Mending and healing breeze (the most popular wa/mo skills) do not provide that much needed extra damage.

Every wa/mo that takes a shot at serious pvp needs to learn to give up the idea of being a tank and learn how to do damage/hurt the other team. And this seems to be hard for most of them to understand. There are good damage dealing builds out there, but most wa/mo's just think "I was the last one standing of my team, so it must be their fault we lost" and keep playing their pve-build in pvp. And so, warrior/monks in pvp are generally considered noobs (being either inexperienced, stubborn or not very smart, or some combinatons of those). They need to make changes, but haven't figured this out yet.

The same thing is true for weapon choice. Some weapons make an enemy monk go , some make them go , some make them go and a self-mending wa/mo with a fiery sword and a lot of stances will make them go.

You make a good point, but I though this discussion was in PVE, not PVP. IN PVP, this discussion would DEFINITELY take a different route.

--The Shim

Ok firts I am not a noob. Been playing this game since it came out . But question is why do you all bag on the noobs. You were a noob once yourself. Thats where everyone starts at, you dont automatically start a cl20 character and if you did you would still be a noob because you wouldnt know how to use it. Just let them be and help them as they try to get to the levels of other characters, and learn the game better.

Exactly what I posted in more words. We should get along; not tear at each other's throats, but there is an exception to the rule with people who really..are..just..idiots by nature and idiots by the fact they don't listen. But those like I said, are the exception. "Noobs" as it's states, is a hostile term. Everyone starts a new thing for the first time <once!> So help em out'

--The Shim

What would you suggest they do use smiting like I sometimes.

Well, I have never seen a good (self-) smiting wa/mo build yet (for pvp), but these may well exist. I heard it being said that good damage dealing wa/mo's are possible with some smiting combo, though I think that other secondaries offer more possibilities.

But even if these builds are possible, they are not being used by at least 90% of wa/mo's in pvp. I am not sure if self-healing is good for a monk in PvE (never played a pve warrior beyond old Ascalon, really) - though I am pretty sure that self-mending is not all that hot if there are monks around to heal you. Protecting yourself as a war may be good when serving as a tank for mobs, but (experienced) pvp players are not mobs (they have at least some form if IQ). Protecting others (like a monk) in pvp may seem nice, but you are more help to your team by killing the enemy as fast as you can or hindering them in some way.

When entering comp. Arena with my monk, I often encounter 2 or 3 war/monks casting mending on themselves (not on me, the monk with much lower armour). When the battle is joined the enemy (provided that these have any sense) all target me, ignoring the wa/mo's or blinding them or putting a hex on one or two. I will do my best to keep myself alive which generally works well enough if the other team is also made up from a lot of sword-wielding wa/mo's, but if the other team is worth anything, they will kill me sooner or later. I try to buy the others enough time to kill the other team, but the wa/mo's only have warrior skills to damage (and not as much of those because they typically have mending, healing breeze, some monk rez spell and hardly any energy because of the maintained mending enchantment). If the other team has a monk, he/she will probably out-heal their damage with ease. So while I am being backfired, drained, hit with ele damage and aftershocked by a KD war, they do only moderate damage. When I am down, the other team is still very much alive and (probably) being healed by their monk. And they take out the war/monks one by one (maybe taking the time to kill me again should one of the wa/mo's think to rez me).
And if the other team has 2 monks, there is no way that our team is going to kill them.

What happens with these wa/mo's is that they are less likely to get a nice winning streak in comp arena (only if they get lucky), they are less likely to find a good team in the team arena and if they play tombs, most experienced players will not accept them, so they will join bad PuGs and rarely win, except when fighting other bad PuGs. Some will see IWAY beating them everytime and change to Wa/ranger with a pet, some of them will persist as self-healing wa/mo's in pvp and many will stop playing pvp and turn back to pve. Which is a shame, really, as they could become quite good at pve if only they were a little more flexible and observant.

I would advise any war/monk wanting to pvp to either find one of the rare serious-damage doing wa/mo builds refered to above, change his/her secondary class, or - better yet - make a pvp character that is not a war/monk and learn to rely on other team members for healing. And maybe switch to something other than swords with hundred baldes.

Warriors were made in the image of Chirs Farely.

I guess so.

YES, I miss him so; he made me laugh something awful. Thats also a close link with warriors in game ^_^

But seriously, we just need to get along people. Make the first step. Be friendly.

--The Shim

its true there are way too many warriors, but if you weed through the idiots, there are some really really good wars out there

Yup. So much weeding to do, though.

When there is monk on our team and one on the opposing team and 1 or 2 Warrior I go for the Warriors.This how we did it in beta it seeems to me that it could be mostly PvE Warriors who tend to go for the monk.I prefer to defend our monk and take the damage myself and let our monk keep me healed up.The obective is to get the other warriors hps down or dp sure that warrior can be ressed but with a dp other than that I target the mesmer especially those with swords.The reason I play W/Mo is the little role play i have in the game with my char.
The proffession i do like the best our Monk,Warrior and I am beginning to like Ranger when I played this the first time I had a hard time with it but the secound time seems to better I guess it when I PvPed with the IVeX build and Necro is another one.The ones I have hard time playing are elementalist and mesmer.
The problem with playing other builds other than W/R is that you have watch out for energy costs as a warrior only has 20 with Ascalon or say Platmail to get the full energy you need a full set of Gladiators.To Roza don't judge a profession untill you played it right through not just around post Ascalon but ascened and almost to the end game maybe you will understand the class more.That goes for the rest of you.

i think that warriors are a necessity to the game, if there is no warrior, whos gonna do the close combat killing??? With no warrior all u got is spell casting mofos, and a ranger, WOW. I think they should go more in depth with the races and professions in the next expansion, because WoW is way better in the aspects of races and professiosna and all that, there is more diversity in WoW


Back on topic, yeah there are a shitload of warriors out there, it because they are the easiest to use, and new players like to use them because they are big heavy kill all things in the universe type professions. And tanks are the shit and a necessity to any group for questing.


well that my 2 cents

I'm starting to see more and more good warriors out there in Competition Arenas. Warriors are a true threat if played right. I'm actually seeing a rise in hammer warriors who get in the thick of things and harass a squishy to no end. Warriors need to be played mercilessly, whether it be with an axe, hammer, or sword, not like some pussy who's afraid of taking too much damage. Sure, warriors should bring at least one defensive stance or shout. But it shouldn't be half their build.

I think if your good, you STILL wont get a group, because NOBODY knows your good. yes Warriors are overused because they are so EASY to play.

I hate how everyone says warriors are so "simple" to play. Granted; it doesn't take the finesse <omg!> of energy management or spellcasting, but we still have to aggro properly, use skills accordingly, and conserve as well. From aggroing initially until when the fight stops, warriors have to know where enemies are the full time so they don't think mr.squish the monk is it's next chewtoy. It makes me angry to see the class I love belittled as such an "Easy" class to take up and play. I found the same ease with all classes myself; and therefore I believe if everyone plays every class to the potential they'd play their main character, this game would be well knowledgeable about how the way each class preforms.

--The Shim

Well, if the opposition is foolish enough to attack you, this is all well and good. But trust me, a good opposition team is not going to target you at first. Except whn they are some kind of heavy smiting team, of course, in which case it often does not matter to them which char they target, as they will kill you in 2 seconds anyway.

I am talking tombs/GvG here. This has little relevance to PvE.

The W/Mo syndrome comes down to this:

"I have good armor, AND I can heal myself!"

This can be a good mindset, and it can be ruinous. You can either look at it as being able to keep yourself alive to lessen the burden on the Monks, or you tend to think you're indestructible. We've all been privvy to the disatrous effects of the latter mindset. Having played as a Monk primary for a while now, I can tell you that I'll never accept a non-guild W/Mo in my group again. My W/Mo guildmates all play very well, but I can't put that much faith into strangers. Any other secondary is fine, at least they'll know their limitations of survivablilty, and may even have some creative tricks up their sleeve. I just tried to help a guildie through Thunderhead tonight. One of our tanks was using Heal Area. I do not have to tell you the outcome of that mission. That's what did it for me.

The problem is most people see a warrior/monk and think*I can do tons of damage AND heal myself!* I had the same problem with my warrior necro when I first started. I thought I was helping myself using blood renewal and dark pact...

Oh btw I kept eight members of our team alive in Tomps during beta.I was the only Monk back then that is all you needed we almost got to the end untill we got an error 11 meaning beta was over.Beta weekends were nice though you could choose between any skill you wanted as to Unlock all Skills we had.

to every newb monk who does nothing but run like hes in the french army to keep himself alive, i pray you fight me one day, and i will introduce you to what a w/mo can truly do.
monks tend to see w/mos as "that newb who cant drop my health," that is untill you use scourage healing and a boatload of damage skills, and drop them like a sack of potatos.
a w/mo can be a dangerous thing, as can any warrior, but the problem is warriors are VASTLY overplayed by people who have NO clue how to use them properly, and it gives the ones who do a bad name. if anything, the assumption that because im a w/mo im a "tanking newb" HELPS in pvp, as it gives me that little bit of extra time before they realize im built for anything but tanking.
(that having been said, my FoW tank build is impeccable)

I would submit that there would be fewer problems with warriors if someone took clear leadership of the team. In my own guild, with ventrilo, all of us being mature players I have seen us do badly because we didn't decide before hand who made the final call on a tactic/decision. Warriors have to get in to the thick of it, and if indecision creeps in, warriors are left with their pants down, and ultimately the team suffers. And, of course, the warrior gets the blame.

So, if you have problems with warriors, I would suggest being part of the solution, instead of crying about it.

A good KD warrior will get targeted in Tombs after you jump down a couple of their throats. I was playing like a man posessed the other night. I was making all the right decisions, timing everything right, and was causing havoc for the other team. How bad was it, we were a pug team taking on a guild ranked top 50 in Tombs. I will admit, that won't happen often, but now and again, you get a pug team with players who know their character.

Theres not nearly enough warrior bashing around, 90% of the time when i team dies its due to a warrior aggroing too much and bitching.
I try to take as few warrs as possible in a team, 1 is enough, i try to not take swordies either, they are usually the worst.

Harsh. Real harsh. But you might have some relevance. Most warriors do not know half the stuff they need to do, but I re-iterate: I have to say it, STOP BITCHING! Sit them down and explain what they need to do. MOST if not ALL will listen <and if they don't, like mentioned before, these people are the exception and should be booted at the next possible time> Take Me for instance; If I'm new to an area, I get the lay of the land from PEOPLE THAT HELP, not those whiny people yelling, "Why are you going this way newb!" or "Attack that first, newb!" People have to remember, noone was born knowing what to do, not even your "high and mighty attitude-readjusting self". Imho, if you get warriors who know what they're doing, swordies are among the best for ripostes, then comes axe, then hammer in PVE. In PVP, I'd go Hammer/Axe/Sword. It's just, people need to educate each other.

Where are the teachers that taught these "high and mighty" people that these people that were taught won't even teach other people? It's a sad, sad, cycle, that needs to be broken. Instead of yelling, ever think of positive re-encouragement? Maybe all the warrior needs is a pat on the back and to be told he needs to attack this first, at this location.

Come on, people. Share the knowledge, instead slapping people in the face with deragtory comments.

//End Rant.\\

--The Shim

The thing you neglect to realize, Shimus, is that people who rant more often than not try to teach these bad players what not to do. Bad players unfortunately tend to have extremely bad attitudes about being "told what to do".

This isn't about newbie bashing, this is about thick headed jerks who never listen. It just so happens a considerable amount of them play Warrior.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and you can't teach a scrub how not to suck at video games.

i get SO much flak from people for being a w/mo sword war, untill i start dealing damage...and lots of it.

Personally, I like the warrior class very much, simply because I think warriors are cool. I just wish they weren't so... low-brow. Many think warriors are stupid because they use big weapons instead of fine magics, but that isn't the case. I think it'd be great if people weren't so annoyed at warriors all the time, even if many warriors have no idea what they're doing.

I also dislike using a sword, because everyone does, but I've found that swords are cooler looking, to me that is. Hammer warriors remind me of stupid dwarves (See, I'm even having biased opinions myself) and axe warriors remind me of Gimli, who's a warrior dwarf too by the way.

The point is that even if warriors can be smart and good players, most aren't and that has causes people to think that everytime they see a warrior. It's very annoying, as I like being a technical warrior with smart tactics instead of charging, but people always think I'm gonna do just that.
Therefor I refrain from being a w/mo. It's totally overused and many combos are just as good or even better.

They don't really matter. Sure, some would be better in certain areas, and some for PVP, but if you get a warrior who knows what they're doing then weapons don't matter because the warrior knows how to use the weapon to max efficiency.

--The Shim

I use a sword for the most part this with my PvE Warrior when I make up a PvP Warrior I will use a either axe or try hammerbut I do like sword it is afterall the traditional weapon of a Warrior especailly a Roman Gladiator when this is all take place and Greece.I have never seen a Warrior use an a hammer yes they used axe as to the term battleaxe but weren't popular amoungst Warriors in that time period.The never gave Warriors a spear or a javalin and there were other weapons similiar to spears.They used daggers as well which would be perfect weapon for say castors warriors eg. dmge is 11-22 attributs in sword 1 or 2.I look at it from historical stand point which weapons were popular then sword and bows from the archers.That is what Rangers should be called Archers.It would be nice as well if there were a few skills that you could shoot an arrow out of aggro and to kill as to what Archers did it only took one arrow to kill your oppenet.
This is the reason I like sword Warriors as it was common weapon with all of them even today swords can be deadly than any rifle.The axe and hammer skills in presearing aren't as good as sword skills.

Just one more thing especailly to Roza I can see what you are talking about the bad Warriors are the ones who get run to the Forge at low levels and never played to the game to learn their skills and limitions and yes most of them turn out to be W/Mo but is still a good class if you learn it well as 2 Warriors were rushing through Thirsty river with 15 K Gladiators armor on.Yeah they got ran to Marhans.

And caveman used clubs which is a primitive form of the hammer.

Phalanx, pikemen, ring any bells?

Arrows were expensive in medieval periods.

That's called Diablo 2.

How good a character in pre-searing has no bearing on how good a character is in post-searing.

You're one of the warriors we're complaining about. I don't know what's more atrocious, your grammar or your history.