Fixing the loot distribution system

As we all know, Anet recently fixed the enemy AI so that they no longer blindly stand in AoE till they die. I think they had a lot of reasons for doing this, including generally making the AI slightly more sensible, increasing the difficulty of a too-easy game, thwarting bot-farmers and bringing the PvE experience more in line with PvP.

Good for them (and us), it's a positive step. Another thing they could do to acheive all these objectives would be to fix the loot distribution.

Anet should make items drop as much for you whether you're playing completely solo or whether you have 7 others (human/hench) with you.


It might even be a good idea to make items drop more for each player if you're playing with a human (not hench) group. This would act as a strong incentive for people to work together. Too many good players just decide to play on their own because they find the annoyances outweigh the rewards of playing in a group, on average. Maybe with a strong-enough incentive like this, people will generally get better at playing in groups and working together and the skill level can increase as the good players teach the crappy players how to play. Also, this gives an advantage to real players over the bot-farmers in that they can earn more rewards in the same amount of time.

This also brings PvE more in line with the PvP experience. Would anyone seriously consider bringing a group of henchies into Tombs? Are you rewarded less faction or fame if you have a full group compared to someone trying to solo the Hall of Heroes? The answer is no to both, so why is it the case in PvE?

This can also give more incentive to join a good guild to play with, get better at playing and eventually try some PvP with your guild; I mean, this game is called Guild Wars after all.

Don't you think that this might cause 8 solo-farmers to team up, then seperate themselves in the area, so that they will clear it in a few minutes?? then heading on to the next area, when having cleared that one, go back to the other area again?

And about the bots used, I think they would just make groups of 8 bots dont you think?

Basically there is no need for an increase in Loot. The Loot itself is fine. It allways was, even if it was nerfed or buffed. The problem was and still is the distribution of Items not being based upon the amount of players in your team.

The loot however should be based upon that.
The amount of persons you MUST have in your team is to be based upon the Teamsize you can have in the nearest outpost, if there are two - base it on the one you've last left.
So once you are going solo at Droknar, hunting down some Trolls you should only get 1/8 of the loot. If you're doing the same at Gates of Kryta, farming the UNdead you should only get 1/6 of the loot.

THIS would totally obliterate the need to solofarm areas. As it is now... people will find a way around ANY limitation and do the same thing they ever did... farm solo. Why? For one simple reason, it does pay of a lot more. By the factor x8 to be exact. Going in solo is 8 times more rewarding than going in with a full team. Well it is not exactly 8x, due to some increase in time taken.

Once this is fixed, once solofarming is unnecessary (but leave it possible... by any means, leave it possible!) the economy will slowly relax and calm down. Finally making things affordable without farming for ages.


Those folks saying "you have to work for your items" should answer me one single question: Why work, when you are playing a game? Why work, if you could just earn it by playing normally? Why frustrate yourself, if you could have a lot more fun without making it any easier?


edit @Medion
Make the loot distribution based upon Radar range... it allready is. Anyone outside of this range should only get 1/8 of the loot of the mobs he is killing (he doesn't get the loot of the mobs his party is killing)

First one: That sounds possible, I don't know how much of a problem it would be. The way it is right now, you get an 8-fold increase in loot drop from playing alone as opposed to in a group, which is a pretty huge incentive to solo-farm. If loot dropped equally for everbody whther they're in a group of 8 or a group of 1, 8 solofarmers teaming up won't get anywhere near that much of an increase in loot, so there's not as much incentive to do that. Because of this, hopefully the vast majority of people won't feel the need to do this kind of thing (there will always be some hardcore farmers).

Second one: That's ok, it would probably be easier for Anet to get them all at the same time that way. And it could be fairly difficult to get 8 of these bots to work together properly instead of just tripping over each other, so human intelligence will have a strong advantage.

Did you read my post? You just repeated what I said... I only added that it might be good to add an extra incentive for playing with a human (not hench) group.

Yes i did read your post, but you did not read mine as you missed out some of my additions.

I said loot the current loot distribution inordinately favours solo farmers, you said loot distribution inordinately favours solo-farmers, I don't see the difference.

edit: Oh well, it doesn't matter anyhoo
No one will read the suggestion here in this forum section.

So? Yes you missed out points.. but what is the point of turning your own thread into a potential flamefest for no real reason? If my post REALLY is identical to that of yours, a moderator will simply delete it anytime soon. So what's the matter?

i think this is a bad idea i persanily don't like to wait around looking for a group for an hour to go play. stop trying to nerf soloing some of use don't have all day to try and get a group and also some of us don't really care to farm either.

This is not about nerfing solo farming. This is about the nerf of the "reason" to solofarm. And about your group argument -> Henchmen. It takes just as long to add those to your group as it takes to go out alone.


/edited the word "need" to read as "reason"

i'm not a farmer but i really don't like the idea of not geting anyting when i'm out there alone. that sounds total bs and it would end up changed back within a week of being changed due to excessive complaints about it.

...
You would get basically the same amount of loot whether you solo or not. Instead of getting 1/8th of the loot when you play in a group, you get the full 8/8ths of it. Everyone else also gets what they would have if they had been soloing. The game right now essentially punishes you for playing in a group. With this system, you earn the same whether you're in a group or not. I don't know if I can put it any more obviously, maybe somebody else can try.

Perhaps as an extra incentive for being in a human group, you could get a reasonably higher amount while in a human group, but nothing excessively unbalanced.

Even if all members received an item for each monster killed, i myself would still solo because it is far more enjoyable.
A party of humans or henchmen may well be able to clear an area quicker but i would gladly trade the speed of clearance and have an enjoyable time instead of all the bickering and bitching.

However, i don't think Anet would mess up the economy by implementing such actions because it would seriously screw the economy which they have battled for so long to balance.

Perhaps all BOSS monsters could drop something for everyone without damaging the economy. That's as far as i could see ArenaNet taking it though.

sigh

did it occure that for some people the last thing they want is the PVP experience? (actually maybe quite a few)

Well, if it's really more enjoyable to you, then go ahead and continue. The idea of there being a bit higher rewards are meant as an incentive, meant to bring more balance into how the game is played, not as a command to play only in human groups of 8. Solo'ers are not being punished under this new system like group-players are under the current system. And I really doubt this would "ruin" the economy. Everbody cries out that this change or that change will "ruin the economy", but it really never happens.

Loviatar - while I admit I do think PvE is a training ground for PvP, I don't see how this system makes it any worse for PvErs. If anything, they are getting more rewards for playing PvE well in groups.

Even if you personally are a PvE-only person, I hope you can appreciate that a new player, who might not try any real PvP until very late in the game, will find (as things are now) PvP completely different from the way things in PvE work. I don't think you can deny that: as it is, PvE and PvP are so different as to make it difficult for someone new to the game to adjust from playing one from playing the other. If the two experiences are more complementary to each other, it just makes for a more complete, better game.

Again, benefits to PvP aside, I ask: how would this make PvE worse off?? In fact it makes PvE'ers better off...You can still play only by yourself or whatever if you so choose. It doesn't suddenly change the PvE experience into the PvP experience. It brings the best parts of PvP (teamwork and strategy) into PvE. But if you don't want to play and plan together in a group, then don't... you're not being forced to.

This thread boggles my mind on so many levels...

How would each individual get a full 8/8ths of the drops? Would each monster drop 8 items?
How would this work with green items?

Your logic is flawed. This game does not punish you for being in a group. You are simply offered a choice - more drops or more help [and, in most cases, less time taken]. Plus, you have an equal chance of getting the items that everyone else in your group does.
A great example of this is UW trapper groups. Yes, a pair will get more drops per person than a group of five, but it will take them a lot longer than a 5-man group. If you think about it, the fact that the 5-man finishes before the pair demonstrates the lower percentage of drops is made up for by the lower time spent in the area.
If your "fix" was implemented, you would have people tearing through high level areas gathering the same loot they would solo-farming, but at a much faster rate. What do you think would happen to the economy when the greater multiple of goods and gold that result from this change enter the market?

Henchmen are there are substitutes for the times we cannot find competant human players. Their AI sucks enough as it is, we don't need to nerf the drop rate we receive with them.

Since when did playing with a PvE PUG not involve strategy? In later areas, strategy must be outlined before entering, or you else you suffer a high risk of being torn apart. Unlike PvP, henchmen are a perfectly viable option in PvE. Although their AI is rudimentary at best, they still attack a called target and heal, something I haven't seen in some PUGs.

I guess your post would be true if it was actually a balanced trade between number of drops and time taken. If you really, actually think about it, one person in a group of 8 can't even come close to matching a solo-er in terms of gold/hour. It doesn't take a solo-er with the right build 8 times the length of time to do something as it would take an 8-man group. Yes it takes more time, but not 8 times more. Like I said, if it did, your argument would be correct.

As you go start comparing 7v2 and 6vs4 and other combinations, yes they would get closer in terms of gold/hour, but that's kind of obvious. This is from my knowledge pre-Nov17th update, I haven't PvE'd since then.

And yes, monsters would drop 8 items.

And... everyone would get a bit richer. People who play in groups would get relatively richer than people who don't play in groups. Maybe the value of a unit of gold would drop, but relatively speaking, there will be more balance between solo-ers and group players.

i like the idea of geting more for puting in more work when you going solo your doing everything yourself and taking greater risk. y the hell shouldn't the solo players get more items ever heard of hazard pay. some spots now are a pain in the butt to solo and when you do you get all that you put in out in items and gold.

Lol farmers are putting their lives in danger? How so? By copy-pasting a build they found on a website and clicking the buttons in the right order? Yeah, I'm sure they put in a lot of work into making that build. And of course they're risking sooo much, right? The idea of high-risk high-gain applies in the REAL WORLD where you're putting your REAL MONEY into an investment that might or might not even give you your money back. Online goldfarmers don't put ANYTHING on the line when they farm. There IS no risk.

i have no so called build i'm not talkin about your stupid freaking farmers who do nothing but go into and area kill everything and leave and come back. i'm talkin about the ppl who are going through the game solo and geting more money in the prosses some ppl don't farm you know. your trying lump all of us together and i don't like it.

See the fact that you can solo the game is an indication that the game is way too easy.

no it's not like i said some points are a big pain in the butt to solo but i do it anyway cause i enjoy the challenge and guild wars wasn't made to force you to team up with ppl remember that

great idea

i call it a bug that drop increase with smaller partries

/signed

The amount of people with little to no reading comprehension in this thread is mind boggling.
I, for one, would love to see the same amount of drops regardless of party size. (Which is what the OP was suggesting!)

I have friends that farm, though I don't, that hate farming. But they play for dye and armor and pretty things, and that's their only option.


Now think about this. How would a party of 8 bot farmers do better in a group than by themselves if this was put into effect? The answer? They wouldn't. Duh. They'd get the same damn amount of drops as solo. There's no reason not to do this, I think there's already enough gold sinks in the game as it is.
Can you say fissure armor?

I've suggested this kind of thing before, and I'm proud to say

/signed

,for what it's worth.

I'm confused - if you don't want to multi-player and team up with others and prefer solo questing, why play an on-line multi-player game? Surely Neverwinter Nights or other single-player RPG would suit you better? Personally its the ability to play with other people in quests that appeals to me with GW, and soloing it makes no sense.

I agree with the OP and would also like to see loot drops geared towards the number in a party - maybe not with everything, but with the rare drops that might happen once or twice a mission if that, why not allocate one to every party member the same way quest item's are? and yes even with green's - the bosses don't always drop their items, so if they do, why not give everyone in the party one, because as it stands opne person could get all the decent drops everytime and otherrs nothing at all (as I've seen happen numerous times). This dosen't penalise solo players, it just puts team players on a level playing field - solo or be in a team of 8 your chance of a decent drop is the same, so much fairer and you can play the game how you choose and not be penalished.

/signed

the drops are random for a reason. you know if you gave a green item to every party member it would trash the economy . for a even further note i have no idea where you get the drops need fixed in the first place. base monster drop 1 thing boss monsters drop more and they are random. so your unluck well i'm sorry but thats just the way the cookie crumbles.


oh hell how about i give a idea along the lines of this.

how about every time you kill a monster it drops 1 of every item in the game .

Oh god you're missing the point entirely. I've stated the point many many times as simply as I could, but this is pretty much the last time I will do this for you: currently people who play in groups are being punished for playing in groups in what is supposed to be a competitive/cooperative multiplayer online game. The current system has created a disincentive for players to play in groups which runs counter to the point of this online, multiplayer game.

This is NOT specifically about increasing the loot for everyone, it's specifically about bringing balance to how loot is distributed so that people will have more reason to play in groups. Again, the basic premise of this idea is this: whether you play in a group or whether you play in solo, you get the same amount of loot. Can you not see how this gives back some incentive to play in a group while not punishing people who want to play solo, like yourself?

I honestly can't see how this is so hard to understand: I've explained it like a million times already, yet a few just don't understand...

Also, I am not even going to read comments about "trashing the economy" after this unless they are actual, valid, reasoned arguments that discuss something beyond: "this'll trash the economy". I'm just gonna quote what I said previously:
Here's a scenario that should convince you that the economy need not be ruined by this:
Imagine for a moment that a solo-er currently gets 16 items on a mission. Under the current system, each player in a human/hench group of 8, by doing the very same mission, would thus get exactly 2 items on the average, for a total of 8players*2items/player=16items. What I suggest is that each human/hench player doing the mission get the same as the solo-er would. Thus the group of 8 human/hench, in total, would get 8players*16items/each=128 items in total. Now I agree that this number looks like it's a huge unbalance for the players in the group, but in reality it's not. They're merely getting the same as they would if they were soloing.

ANet, if they judge it necessary, could even drop the number of items that each person gets so that there isn't a huge influx of new items. For example, in a new scenario, the solo-er would get 4 items for playing the mission, and each player in the human/hench group of 8 would get 4 each, 4*8=32. I hope you notice that what this has done is bring more balance into the situation. Both the player in the group and the player solo-ing get's the same amount of loot. The player in the group, who would have gotten a measly 2 items under the old system now gets a more substantial 4 items. The solo-er, who previously would have gotten an extravagant 8 items now ALSO gets 4 items. This brings more balance to how loot is distributed. It certainly does NOT ruin the economy or even change it drastically, since the influx of new items is balanced out by the fact that the new items are spread out more evenly between solo-ers and farmers.

Now these are just some suggestions, ANet, if they would kindly implement such a system, could tweak it further so that it's optimal.

...and of course we wouldn't want the economy 'trashed' for the select greedy/selfish few who make loads now would we? FWIW the economy is already trashed - Anet say that 80% of players never have more than 20k, yet I regularly see people trying to sell crap mods like 10/10 sundering for 3x that amount and weapons for 30+ ecto - how can new players compete with that? christ I can't and I've been playing 6 month's.

All that will end up happening is the game dieing on its arse and chap 2 flopping as existing players like myself get bored and disheartened with it and post our feelings on internet boards so putting off potential new players. It's supposed to be a game ffs and enjoyable not a work-like grind and the only reason I can think of that some don't want change is because they don't want to lose their place at the trough.

I like playing GW for the social side of questing with others in PvE, I have no interest in PvP nor with having to mindlessly repeat area's over and over killing the same things just to try and get a good drop - but the current state of things means I'm being penalished for that approach, all I ask is that everyone who plays the game has an equal chance of the same rewards regardless of how they choose to play the game, not unreasonable surely?

Yeah lets see here anyway you do it somone gets the crap end of the stick. If you increase the drops so monster drop enough things to feed an item to everyone in the group. Solo players will still end up with more cause you increased the drops. If you decrease the drops so solo players get the same as the groupers a solo gets the crap end cause they can kill something and get nothing. Don't you see the problem there ? The drops are universal what you do to one side is done to the other and it's also randomized so if you make it 1/8 for solo players. They could in fact go through a hole mission without get a dam thing .

*Bangs head on table repeatedly*
I give up. Maybe somebody else can explain it to him. I know I tried my best.

darkdragon99, sign up for Reading Comprehension 101 at your favourite local university/high-school/elementaryschool, read my posts, then come back. Thanks.

You. Leave. Outpost. Alone.

See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for you
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.

You. Leave. Outpost. Two players.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for you.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 1.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. No drop.

You. Leave. Outpost. Eight players.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 1.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for you
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 2.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 3.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 4.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 5.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 6.
See. Monster. Go. Kill. Drop for Teammate 7.

Each. Monster. Drop. 1 Item. Total.

____

Drop Allocation based upon full party size not on current partysize. So if you leave the outpost doing some solo action you get the exact same amout of loot you would have gotten if you'd be doing the trip in a team. No matter what you do, you get the same amount of loot and thus, eliminate the need to solofarm WHILE... still leaving it possible. Then no one would have to scream nerf this, nerf that anymore. Because everyones Loot would be equal. But this just does not give you an advantage by the factor 8x. You can no longer cause inflation this way because you get the drops that were meant for 8 different people.

/signed for the modificaiton as Amn_En_Tarsath described it.

/signed

This topic is hilarious, btw.

Agreed. This is an online multiplayer game. Why should players teaming up together get less loot per person than a solo-er? That would discourage teamplay, wouldnt it? Besides, this suggestion does not affect the solo-ers in anyway - they still get the same amount of loot as in a party if this suggestion is to be incorporated.

As Jesh mentioned, in this case, a 8bot-party will not get more loot than each doing solo. The only difference? The real players in a full party will get the same amount of loots per person in less amount of time than a solo-er, which should be a no-brainer.


/signed

after skimming this topic, i have to agree that drops are still not balanced..many times i've gone to FoW with a team of eight and watched ppl get 2-3 shards and i come out with nothing but some crappy blue items, some dust and some demonic remains (and i'm talking like 10 shards dropped) so ya, fix the drops to be more even like a check "if player 1-8 has had a drop of worth X-gold (ie shards are valued at 100gold if u look at them) in the last 30sec and monster has dropped X-item worth X-gold then go to next player; repeat" <-this is why i go soloing so much, cause i get shit

One bot is a problem, a party of 8 bots would make you eat those words.

Plus there should be some sort of reward for being able to take on mob X with fewer players. It's harder with fewer players, after all.

And how many would stay in the team if they knew that now they got their drop, they'll have to wait until all the others have got a drop until they got their next one. As soon as someone gets a green it'll be kthnxbai and they'll join a new team - I mean, the odds of getting another one in their old team is now zero.
But like Dillusions say, botters would rejoice. 8x more loot!

I like the present drop distribution system. I think it's nice and fair that it's truly random and doesn't take order or amount of damage dished into account.

/unsigned

Okay, we basically have two concepts here. And some folks are trying real hard to get it wrong.


That was the basic idea. It really makes you wonder where you folks get nonsense like

this from. No one stated that, or atleast i did not see it yet. Afaik no one wanted a true and perfect loot cycle. All that was asked for was to not spit out an item everytime just because you are going solo. All that was asked for was to even out the odds. Make the dropsystem a 1/8 chance (or 1/6 based upon your location) everytime a monster dies in your radar range. Done dio.
You don't have to solofarm while you are still able to do it. Everyone wins, except those greedy bastards who want 8x the loot.

finaly someone who understands what i been saying it's random for a reason

but i'll make my old suggestion

change the drop distribution so evey time you kill a mob it drops 1 of every item in the game it's only fair.

Great, now you have a bus buddy to sit with on the special short bus while you both go to your special school where they try to teach both of you special kids how to read.

YOU'RE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE CONCEPT
REREAD THE POSTS
STOP MAKING UP THINGS THAT AREN'T IN THE POSTS
PLEASE