Are Necros and Mesmers the scourge of Tyria?

Ugh... domination cookies is why people don't like Mesmers. You see a mesmer in pve and (if its not me) I can almost guarantee that person uses the "leetzor" Backfire and Chaos Storm skills. There is no variety in the mesmer players and a good ranger can easily out interupt any hackjob that calls themselves a Mesmer. As for getting into parties, most decent mesmers have guilds and parties are default, these types of mesmers also make their own groups and not sit around hoping some trinity-addict player will take them.

As for necros EVERYOEN wants them now, hell I see them spam SS Necro in ToA non stop. I still believe that SS is far to conditional to be worth the slot but hey thats just me and people will do anything to make money. A decent necro will use good combinations of skills/branches and you will be able to tell who is the standard "cookie from hell" or actually a decent player by what they run. Heck if you want to rout out "noobs" who don't like to think for themselves simply pose the question "Is Desecrate Enchantments good in UW?" if they answer no... then bye bye, if they answer yes than your on a good path. Then you can always ask "How do you kill mindblades?" as most pugs of "noobs" get simply crushed here as they rush in and fight!

PS: ANET give the Mindblades a shout that says "PWNEDZORED" after they wipe out an entire party... please.

You have obviously never played a Necromancer before. In the Random Arenas with a Necro build I use, I can out-tank a tank. Necromancers are one of the best class for damage dealing.

Try making a Necro Spike in Team Arenas, you will realise how good Necros are when they do 400~ damage in a few seconds.

Blood Necros are pretty good tanks in PvE as well. They can hold out long enough for the party to regroup if they get into trouble.

Back to the original topic, I used to have trouble getting into groups with my necro, but it has become increasingly easier in the last couple of months. It's as if people have had a "eureka" moment regarding Necros. I made a ranger as well a couple of weeks ago and havent had any problems with him. Maybe I should do a Mesmer as well...

Hm.. Backfire, used correctly, does a lot of damage and I was amazed that human players cast through it. However, currently I'm set up for energy denial, so backfire is out of the skill bar. Chaos Storm got dropped way before the aoe nerf from my skills. I'll stand by using domination/inspiration though, I just CANT get the hang of illusion.

As for the ranger being able to interupt better than the mesmer, I'm having a few problems there.... see, I have a ranger with 1 interupt (he's only lvl14 atm) and I have problems interupting anything with it (other than the extra long ele spells) and I have my female mes. set up for pure interupt, and she does a great job interupting just about anything, am I not getting something with the ranger?

Oh.. and please tell me how a ranger is better at interupting than a well placed power block? How does disabling the titans ability to do severe damage for 12+ seconds sound in comparison to a rangers interupt?

Someone feel free to give me advise on the illusion line.. but.. shouldn't conjur phantasm NOT be used in the end game missions?

The issue with Mesmers, Necros, and Rangers in PvE is probably two-fold.

1) They're a lot harder to understand for most newcomers to the game than the Warrior, Elementalist, and the Monk. Their abilties transcend the mundane staple "tank", "nuke", and "heal" combo that ploughs through so many other uninspired RPGs.

2) Because they're a lot harder to understand, they're also a lot harder to play to their full potential. So a lot of newcomers who try these classes often become more of a liability than a contribution to their team.

So: the newcomers recruit Monks, Warriors, and Elementalists because they don't really understand what Rangers, Mesmers and Necromancers do.

And a bunch of the more experienced players don't recruit Rangers, Mesmers, and Necromancers because they're afraid that their Rangers, Mesmers, and Necromancers will be unskilled and will not make any significant contribution to the team (or even endanger the team at worst).

Personally, I think using Necros as batteries is a huge waste. They can do so much more. Energy management shouldn't be a problem in PvE in the first place.

Anyone who has ever played some high level PvP against Rangers/Necros/Mesmers, would be able to testify how important and powerful they really are.

You've never played a Blood Necro have you? The claims of 400+ damage in a few seconds are NOT exageratted. And what's more: Much of that damage is Life Steal! So you have self-healed while attacking.

There are at least two popular Blood (attack) builds I can think of now: "8x68" and "Blood/FoC spike".

A Blood Necro running at 18/19 Blood HURTS REALLY BAD. And they are hard as hell to kill.

I have stood toe-to-toe against two warriors in CA and killed them both without being worried. Then the shit talk started. "That necro killed us", "just wait till I am ressed, YOU'RE DEAD."

So I walked over to the res shrine and waited. When they ressed, I gave them both another dirt-nap. Then the "HAX!" cries began.

I will say that Necro's are complicated. They aren't point and shoot. You need to think about wha you're doing, and that's probably why they aren't popular besides support.

Backfire is rarely used correctly, people just use it as soon as they enter battle and look at big numbers. Also your energy denial is not a cookie, few ever are as they take actual brain cells to use. Also the damage on backfire can be voided easily by a compitent monk.

As for rangers, they have alot of very nice interupts. Want to see your target never cast a spell again? Try quick shot + chocking gas, or why not just old Incediary with Tiger's fury. Distracting Shot is a very good interupt with only 10 seconds of recharge, not interupting anything with it is just a lack of experience. Rangers also have punishing shot, savage shot, and the good old Concussion shot. Rangers and mesmers have about the same number of interupts but the rangers can use them far more often than a mesmer, especially if the ranger packs Serpents. Its all about timing and recharge, true a power block can't be out done but hey its 30 seconds of recharge and if you miss.... well

As for the titans, the ranger can interupt everything so while power block may render one titan useless, a potent ranger can render several titans useless or near useless.

Hehe, sounds like I'm gonna end up enjoying playing this ranger after all.. he's only just got to LA, so.. thanks heaps for the info

I love both my Ranger and Mesmer equally. However, I completely disgaree with what Theos says about Mesmer players, and, in truth, found him extremely offensive.

People SEEK OUT my Domination Memser for groups, (those who know how effective they can be), such as in FoW, as they know what strong characters they can be.

I can only assume that Theos has had some bad experiences and tars everyone with the same brush.

I'll admit that there are many bad Eles, for example, out there, but that doesn't mean that I would rubbish an entire line and never play with one again. It all depends on the person playing the toon.

You must realise I speak from the perspective of a mesmer, I have seen alot of bad bad players and I have spoken with them. Not to say that I know every view but I know many, so I am not stereotyping extremly, I am simply going by what I have seen and that is that atleast 90% of all mesmers are dom cookies.

Also this has nothing to do with Elementalists as there are far more players in that category, you need to realise that with the fact that mesmers are so few in numbers the rubbish I see on a day to day basis is not so easily dismisable.

As for Domination being sought out, if the people knew how much more potent a ranger is at interupting than a mesmer Domination may for once become something less "cookified", true rangers may have limitations such as barriers but hell not everything is perfect. I also doubt that many people even look for mesmers, much less for exactly yours, this is a simple fact but most people playing are simply of the trinity mindset and do not even look at mesmers. Also in FoW a mesmer is not even needed all that much, the standard echo MS will be enough to shut down the casters while the team simply "hacks" them to death. In the UW the mesmer is usually a good thing to have as MS is not as effective and the dryders are in far greater numbers... but from what I have seen the dom cookies have rarely done anything but stop an MS then get themselves bombed to hell... err deeper hell. Sure there are good ones in that big mess but as I said most are simple cookies with legs and arms.

As for being offensive, I do apologize if I am, but truth is truth and it usually hurts. I have argued so many times that many dom skills that people find "Leet" are complete garbage, do people listen? No, most simply like to see their big numbers on the screen. Yay a backfire... now for thirty seconds I have a useless skill that may (though very unlikely) kill something in ten seconds... and thats hoping there are no monks present. Sure you have some nice skills like the shatters or the guilt/shame brothers or even the power spike/leak/block but alot of the rest of the line is garbage... especially that which people make into cookies.

Illusion on the other hand (as well as inspiration) is based truly around what a mesmer should be; controler of the battlefield. Illusion cripples melee and can be used on casters quite effectively, illusion serves as the evil brother of domination and I find it far more effective at interupting (excluding Cry) the skills of enemies and even giving you energy. Inspiration also does keep you alive, all those mantras are golden skills and you have one for almost every situation... domination unlike its two sibling branches is only casters (exclude empathy) and is extremly limited.

Little story...

When I was taking my necro throught he ascention quests, I was trying to put together a party out of Augury Rock who actually wanted to fight through, rather than get run. After an hour I had a party of 4: 2 necros, 2 rangers.

We continued to spam for more people to join us. At one point, a warrior joined, who immediately looked at the 4 of us, then asked "Why do we have even one necro, let alone 2? Necros are useless." I had to laugh and point out that either of us could put out more DPS than he could, and if he wasn't smart enough to learn how to play with some of the "lesser" character types, he would have to learn soon enough. He laughed and left.

We ended up getting the monk henchies, and the 6 of us went through the desert with no problems....

Ask any monk in pvp how irritating an interrupt mesmer is...I can degen a monk and interrupt all his healing. I can also solo a warrior as a domination/illusion mesmer.

As a necro I can do more total damage than an elementalist by using curses such as spiteful spirit...as most pve warriors will continue attacking despite the hexes on them.

The biggest problem is that finding a good necro or mesmer is even harder than finding a good warrior or monk. Anet's aim is to balance the skills so that all professions can be equally devestating IF used properly...and it is in the IF that the problems arise.

Just noticing that in Drok and southern Shiver Peaks, the REAL players seem to be more necro & mesmer heavy. I was recently in a party with 3 necos (including myself). Coordination was great, and we only had a couple deaths.

Seems like it's the noob areas that suffer from a lack of understanding when it comes to necros and mesmers.

I just started on a necro, I have begun to appreciate the necor powers. I completed more than a few quests because the bones went ahead and kept them occupied while I got things done.

I have been thinking about including a mes in my second account line up. what would be agood secondary?

I've a mesmer, and compared to my warrior or monk, definately the hardest to get into groups with (in PvE). Most missions ended up being done either with henchies or with aid of some guildmates. I tried to get into a group at SF with my mesmer boots on, joked a bit in public chat and said about how I could make mincemeat of the monk bosses etc. Still not one invite.

In fact the only way I found to get invited into groups for missions earlier was to basically play as a mesmentalist (fast casting nuker) which got me a lot more invitations... not really encouraging to see, though I've long since changed to play a proper domination mesmer instead.

Xeno - if you hang out in any of the real farming areas you will see people asking for necros constantly.

Yeah, SF for example necro's are in demand. Poor old mesmers though...

I enjoy the Mes as a secondary... mainly b/c you can use domination magic and stances to keep going. Inspiration keeps you healthy, and Illusion is good for avoiding damage. Someone will probably point out faults in my reasoning.. but I can only tell you from my experiences.

Rangers are good b/c they can use natural rites to give you an advantage.

And Monks allow you to heal yourself b/c some of the best necro abilities require life sacrifice.

Elementalist is good if you want to rely on soul reaping to gain power for additional casting (but not as recommended from what I've seen)

A N/W isn't that good (from what I've seen) b/c Necros are more frail, and really don't benefit much from the warrior skills you'd gain.

Again.. this is from what I've seen, so someone else may have more to offer in advice.

i was going to do Ice Caves of Sorrow mission, and i was and currently am lvl 20 and no one (these people were even lvl 15) wouldnt accept me, im a necro...gah
it's totally unfair

i think the people dont like us because they are jealous we got through the game with a necro or mesmer which are the hardest tobeat dopple with. necros, im my opinion, are the best.

Are you smokeing something? Necro and Mesmer have it the easiest to beat the dopple with. And if you can't figure that out....shame on you.

Anyways, I hardly ever PuG with my Mesmer. my Necro gets a lot of invites though. Must be his sexy armor ^_~

Yes,

Whenever I play my Mesmer/Necro and/or Necro/Monk, eyes tend to open on my fellow party members. And the Ranger ? Oh Rangers just rock in any situation. Love em!

A Necro minionmaster even early in the game will steam roll through the game like nobodys business. However, there are so many necros that are non flexible and yes inexperienced. They tend to give the impression that necros are not that great. Except for the Ring of Fire Island Chain, the necro played right can make any mission easy.


A Mesmer/Necro is extremely powerful in the game, again also in the earlier parts of the game. I had the whole group quit after we killed the Dragon in the shiverpeaks (bonus) and I finished it SOLO, met rurik and the dwarf and took it from there.. my weapons were mainly empathy and rotting flesh and some other snaks. How ? Well I used the dwarfs, Rurik and the Dwarf to my advantage...just aggro a few and run back to the castle, while the slowly die from disease. Then Rurik and the dwarf takes care of the tanking.


HOWEVER for a Necro and a Mesmer to do well, they need time and patience in a group. They need corpses, wells etc. And they do damage over time, except the Blood/death sacfrifice Dark Aura Necro.

Groups usually have no time, strategy or skill, so it makes it even more interessting to play a Mesmer or a Necro.

My favourite is the high level Minion Master in a 5 man farming group Sorrows Furnace. I love it. Thats where the Necro really shines.

Another favourite is the Mesmer in the Ring of Fire Island Chain, bosses die quick then or a rendered useless quickly.

Ratatass

heh...yeah, poor Mesmers/necromancers. I play Ranger, which isn't as highly hated upon, but sometimes I feel as though people figure the game only has three classes, and we aren't them. it sucks arse, especially since nine times out of ten, the Warriors and Elementalists people are screaming for suck so bad you'd have been better off with a competent Mesmer or Necromancer at half their level...:-P

Non-Big 3 classes go! XP

My primaries are Mesmer Monk and Ranger.

I was in Thunderhead with my monk and of course immediately got invited to a team. The "experienced" leader had a couple of warriors, elementals, and monks, and we were looking for two more.

I suggested taking a Mesmer and a Ranger. He asked "What for?" I answered, "Mesmers are the best anti-casters, rangers can trap and barrage, and they can both do it while manning the catapults"

He didn't think so, and so I quit. No way do I want any part of that PUG. No wonder he was "experienced" at the mission, he probably failed it 10 times in a row.

I never thought I'd enjoy playing a ranger but out of my Monk, Elementalist, Ranger and Warrior, I totally enjoy my Ranger character the most. I used to think they were weak but that is ony because I was too dumb to know better.

I beat THK with a party of 6 Necros and the healer and protector henchmen on the first try. I was pretty impressive to see all that damage being thrown around from blood spikes.

I think this thread was resurrected by a necro perhaps ... I'm using animate thread!

Any intelligent PUG (is that an oxymoron?) will see the value in a mesmer or necro ... if you ask to join, or invite self in response to someone advertising, and the leader doesn't take you or says "omg, we don't need no mezmerz or necroz!" then chances are they will be right back where you're standing in about 10 minutes, after a nice little "your party has been defeated" message

Note that this is a 5 month old thread, many things have changes (not to anyone in particular)

Though they take a tremendous amount of damage, and I hardily see what they do, I always accept them. What I hate about them is that they very often tank. Mesmers and Necros should stay close to the monk, or flank the party. Don't tank and don't leech.

A Good SS necro is a valuable asset to any party. Can't beat the beat down handed out by multiple mobs attacking with SS on them. Too bad it doesn't interrupt too or it would be the sexiest skill in the game.

UW -- necros are 50% of the standard group
SF -- necros are 40% of the standard group
Tombs -- necros are in the standard group, and rangers are 75% of the standard group

This thread is definitely old news. See all the more recent threads about the uselessness of elementalists.

I take necros as a priority in my groups, because I know how good the class is. Mesmers also, but slightly lesser.

It is because of the whining groups you now see the elemental class now broken! Elementals are tooo powerful when they keep crying!


Anet might as well get rid of the hole elemental class because it is a joke!

The AI needs to get smarter about acting through hexes like SS and those in the Domination line.

Then Necros and Mesmers won't be so overpowered any more, and Elementalists will be welcome in groups again.

Mesmers aren't the over powered ones :P The only thing mesmers have that has anything to do with AI flaws would be... nothing. Backfire is so pointless of a skill that even if you do use it, it won't matter if the target casts or doesn't, either way you delayed a monk/caster. Empathy is empathy, its to local to warrant any AI blame, whats a warrior to do? Just stand there for 20 seconds?

Necros on the other hand, SS more precisely, simply love to use loop holes in the AI "fix" which some how omitted this skill. Oh well.

That tends to be the case - in particular amongst those with less skill and experience with the game. Most parties need a healer, but not all. Most parties need a tank (warrior or other).

Most parties end up with bad tanks... this stresses the healers (so they need more) and they think they need more tanks... but I can tell you that if you have one good tank that is all you need... everyone else can do their jobs.

Even with good tanks groups can end up going poorly... when people get to impatient and grab aggro before they should.

Uhm, last time you went to fow with a pug.. how many of your team decided to cast/attack through ss on them? Don't tell me the AI needs to be fixed if human players can't get that you DONT fight through it cause it hurts more than just you.

Thats just a blatant and horribly wrong assumption, the last pug I went with into FoW called SS and had it removed accordingly. There was no attacking through it. I don't know what idiots you go with but I don't see this much if ever, and if it is seen people tell the triggerer to watch himself, which they do quite well after being told.

Also why do you compare human idiots with what the AI should be? I personally don't compare the lacking end of the gene pool with anything remotely valueable.

Hence, PUG. Not guild, and half the time, idiots. Normally, you find out they forgot to ping ss when it hits you and you move out of their way, just in case.

So make the AI semi-smart, so it casts/attackes a little longer, then stops... Then again, disable them from doing anything other than running because THEY have ss on them.. and.. they might as well fight through it as hex removal is not that great in the pve side of things. Same goes for putting diversion on them (though, they tend to wait till it's run out before casting again) and backfire (also a gap between them realising it's on them and their next cast).

Geez thats a joke... Necros can do Orders, Minion Master, and SS... That just down right beats the crap out of some Echo Nuker.Mesmers can make tough bosses or monks in mob groups a walk in the park!

I just stumbled upon a thought... You guys remember in PvE weekend how hard those mob spawns were? My minds blanking out but I think they were the same mobs from Sorrow's Furnace just buffed up stats and AI wise. Anyways Mesmers are the key to turning those guys into bonemeal for sure.