Well, well, well aren't we pretty slick

So it would appear that the "PvP" "elite" crowd has figured out a way to remove some enjoyment of the game for the rest of us, thank you.
Just so there are no misunderstandings let me make my point, Sigils, yes the little token that must be purchased in order to open a Guild Hall has for all intent and purposes been removed from half of the game. So for the unfortunete ones that at this time have no desire to participate in PvP or are building their players to one day be able to compete in PvP, we cannot through the normal and intended gameplay obtain a Sigil that would allow us to open a Guild Hall of our own. I have NO doubt that there are those that will stick out their chest and be proud of the fact that they have several that they have one in the Hall of Heros and are hold for 20k to 30 k gold in order to let another Guild obtain a hall. What a crock, and not only do I hope that this catches the eye of Galie Gray I'll be sending her and others these concerns from my self and many others that feel the same way. It would be nice for once to be able to get into a game like this and not have the same greed and lust for "Glory" permiate what was otherwise a wonderful place to enjoy.

As long as you get to GvG, I don't see it as being that big of a problem. But I can see your concerns.

It seems, at the moment, that A-N views a Guild Hall assomething that only PvP players would want, since it's only used for GvG battles. I don't agree with this, but I can understand their thought process. Essentially, getting a Guild Hall, and therefore the ability to be present on the ladder, is a privelige -- one earned by winning the Hall of Heroes. Making sigils more common would please those who want to use it simply as a meeting place, but it would also flood the world with large amounts of Not-Really-Guilds that would make easy fodder for quickly climbing the ladder.

I agree with most of this statement and as for being common, well then raise the price at the Sigil Trader, make 5k or 7k or even 10k and then the Guilds that want to strive for that know the goal they have to attain. Competing in and winning in the Hall of Heros is hard but yet proves nothing more than you can win King of The Hill for 30 seconds or less.
How does one improve their guild if they don't have the place or opportunity
to "spar" and or practice with other Guilds or even amonst themselves?
Also if you want it to be something that is a reward for mastering the Hall of Heros then DON't make it available in the rest of the game. If it is in the PvE area then it should be able to be found, picked up after a drop or purshased and NOT something that can be controlled by influences outside the "code" that runs the game.

I can understand the main purpose of the guild hall is GvG... but its not really. People who have a PvE only guild will wnat to meet up; lets face it, its easier to meet at your own exclusive island and chat to each other than it is to all go to Lions Arch dist 1 or something. Maybe there should be a quest that is equal in 'difficulty' to the hall of heroes but requires a team of guild members to complete it; that way not just any 'noob' could make a guild but it would also open it up to those who don't wish to pvp yet or at all.

Aahh, YES!
see now we are thinking, that is what getting to Lion's Arch I think was suposed to be.
Maybe something along those lines but more difficult, unfortunetly that is a future fix and does not solve the current issue, but I like the idea.

woot! lol

maybe the sigils could be added to the guild registrat temporarily? At 20k they'd still be 'difficult' to get, and maybe you should have a minimum requirement of... say... 10 guild members to get one? *shrugs* just a temporary thing perhaps until the questing type thing could be put in.

If you have 20 member in your guild, it shouldn't be so hard for each member to pay 1 plat or two for the guild hall.
If you consider that the final armor costs 1.5 plat per piece that's not so much money.

A few of my friends have this same problem when they try the hall of heros they are decimated and can't raise enough money to buy a Sigil. This should be fixed because they do mostly PvE and don't have much luck against other people.

The leader of my guild e-mailed ANet on this issue, and they responded that there is actually a quest to obtain a Sigil before or shortly after reaching Lion's Arch, but they didn't tell us where this quest was. We've been unable to find it so far.

Keep an eye out.

I agree that greed is going to overcome the winners of HoHs, but that's part of business in games. If a guild has enough well-established/avid/dedicated players, 30k+ really shouldn't be a problem. It hasn't even been 1.5 weeks into the games' release and everyone is just dying for a guild hall at the heat of the moment. But I understand Guild Halls are a must for actual guilds, and if you're really fixated on getting one, then it won't hurt for the whole guild to play enough to get one.

Anyways, what fun is a game if nothing is challenging to get?

sorry but I have to completely disagree with you...obtaining a guild hall is definitely a previledge that should be no easy feet of just raising a few funds and buying it. This is probably because I have a pvp mindset but I like the idea of having to earn the sigil otherwise you just don't deserve it.
And as far as complaining about guilds hording the sigils and selling at high prices, it's their right.
If you don't want to go through the ladder and earn your guild hall then you can always just buy one for the 20-30k that these other guilds sell them for...I mean if you don't mind paying 10k then what's another 10k when you don't want to do it the hard way.

Yes let the narrowminded find the way to misunderstanding...

You miss the point, I too believe that having a Guild should be a priviledge and not something just anyone can pick up, what I am having problems with is the fact that a small number of people are monopolizing a part of the game to serve their self-centered purposes.
It might be the right for the winner of the Sigil to do what he, she or they want to do with it as long as it dosen't effect the play for others in the process.
As for the cost issue, I don't have any issues with paying what ever the price may be for items that are offered in the game, armor, crafting material, Guild Cape and so on. If there were Sigils available at the Sigil trader and the price was 10k then so be it, but when the stock, price and availability is controlled by outside of the game sources then I begin to have issues with it. I'll say it again, if the desire was to have everyone go through The Hall of Heros then so be it but when you stick a "vender" into the game and create the impression that you can go and buy one if you wish, then that's what you should be able to do.

in a month sigils will be like 5k, but i still think you should be able to quest for them or get em off an npc, rather than having to buy them from alpha players

Lol, before you jump to conclusions, let me just say this:

1. the pvp crowd as a whole NEVER lobbied in any way for exclusive rights on the guild hall sigils.
2. We honestly dont care if you get a guild hall or not, it has no bearing on us whatsoever. (except maybe more hench teams duking it out at ~1000 rating)


I find it absolutely laughable that a *SINGLE* nearly inconsequential part of the game is restricted from your reach through pve and you make a big stink about it for anet to see. Look at the facts:
1. If you wait about 2-3 weeks, sigils will cost next to nothing, the reasoning behind this is simple, a new sigil goes into circulation EVERY 10 MINUTES, and once a guild has a sigil, its permanent, i.e. The market will be so flooded with sigils eventually that they will be next to worthless.
2. if you compare the relative ease of getting what you want from pvpers, (a sigil, which costs your guild ~1 hour of farming each to obtain, if that, even at the current prices) compared to what PVP players go through simply to get to the part of the game they enjoy (~150+ hours of grinding, just so they can compete), your complaint seems like a joke.

If it were up to me, PVE players could get sigils from pve, and pvp players could get skills and other unlocks via pvp. NOONE should be forced to play through parts of the game they dont enjoy, it does noone any good, and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. At least you have an alternative to getting a sigil. Imagine if they weren't tradable. This is basically the position PvP players are in, since we're FORCED to endure the grind. Really, i dont feel bad for you.

I don't feel bad for any of you. Just play the game for god's sake

I did, i beat it 2 days ago. I still cant pvp due to lack of unlocks, and i have to farm runes and play pokemon with the soc's for another 40-100 hours before i can start pvping. Even then i'm limited to playing either a mes/mo or a mo/mes in pvp, which is pretty limited. Looks like i get to restart the game on a newbie character and do it all again? oh joy!

I don't feel bad for you

I think it is fair. Getting a guild hall should be a priviledge, reserved for the select few. For PvP guilds, they can earn it by holding the hall of heroes, a very big achievements. A PvE guild can't earn it that way. But PvE produce gold. Lots of gold, which PvP doesn't. So a PvE guild produce gold and buy the sigel from a PvP guild. PvP guild get golds without doing PvE, and the PvE guild gets a hall without doing PvP. Perfect.

In my personal opinion, 30k is bargain. A much smaller achievement than holding the hall of heroes. But I'm not going to argue with the market price.

Hey punk, you dont like this game? leave it. You want one aspect of the game to be removed so you can maximise your enjoyment of another aspect? Go make your own games, punk. What is it you dont like? The scenery, the storylines, the added content to customise your character? Or the fact that these things are actually very good but you cant get the best character ingame for pvp without going through those things?

Unlike you and your crowd, I plan to master this whole game, I wont be giving out any details on who I am, but I dont play mmo's for a bit of fun, its to master the complete game and let others see me do it.

I wont whine about pvp'ers having all this, and pve'ers not having to do this. I see what must be done in this game to achieve certain things, and those things get done. You want to whine and moan about the grind? Dont grind then matey, and I will melt you in a fight before you even know im there.

Seriously though, 30k seems to be fairly cheap for something like a guild hall. People who have sigils from pvp probably have already beaten the game, and at that point, 30k is nothing.

Arrogance, thou hast corrupted this one...

When you get some levels you might realize what an insignificant amount of money that is. I've bolded might because with you I do have to wonder, and here's why:

Hello sir. You fail Remedial Reading Comprehension 101. Want to know why you got an F? Maybe you should take a look at the box this game came in.

Oh look! The box says "Guild Wars"! Could it be that this game was designed for PvP players, not the SAME pack of carebears who sign up for every PvP MMO and then complain about not being exclusively catered to? I just don't understand you guys. You want to PvE in a PvP game and expect to be given equal rewards, thus demeaning those rewards for everyone else.

Guess what! You can go to Everquest, PvE with all your guild friends all the time and get a really cool guild hall that you can decorate, without ever having to even look at a PvP arena! Oh man, you could do that in AO too! Or DAOC! Or, Jesus Christ, EVERY SINGLE MMO on the market right now!! Instead, you've decided to pick up the game that was made for us and throw a big screaming hissyfit because your needs are not met.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong! You just refuse to. You refuse to even try. Guild halls don't have scrimmage courts, you don't need one in order to train. Meet up with your guildies at an arena with arranged teams and practice, practice, practice. Run Tombs as many times as you can! Every time you lose, identify what you did wrong or what the other team did right, and adapt. It's not hard. A chimp could do it. Even if you're really, really horrid, the law of probability dictates you will eventually run up against a team of pugs even worse than you. It's just a matter of persistence.

But are you out there training? No, you're here whining instead because you can't get immediate satisfaction without effort! Honestly, I hope you don't try and pull this kind of stunt when you get to the real world, or you'll be in for some pretty jarring reality checks.

You just became my personal Jesus

ohh boo hoo, the poor pvers will have to grind to earn something on the pvp side of things, I feel so bad =(((((

IMHO the original poster is at least partially correct. His points are valid. The cost of sigils is being dictated by a select few, not the game mechanic. That's the problem.

Someone said 30k gold is easy to get a sigil once you've finished the game. OK, fine. Too bad the only people that rush to finish the game are PvP only players.

There are several reasons to have a Guild Hall that aren't PvP related, but it doesn't matter what the individual guild's reasons are. If someone has a guild and they want a hall, they should have access to it. They make guilds themselves available to any Tom, Dick, or Harry for a few gold. If you're going to go pulling the "exclusive groups only" card, you should have done that with getting a guild in the first place. Respect the idea of the Guild itself, not the internal aspect of a guild hall, which means nothing as only the guild can see and have access to it. There's a hundred pointless guilds out there with random players that mean jack. Those should have been curtailed, not the valid, respectable guilds (regardless of PvE or PvP preference) that just want a simple guild hall.

I laugh at the fact that there is a Sigil Trader in the game. That trader will not see a sigil for months. Traders for other items keep the price down because they have inventory and players that want to sell those items must undercut the sell value from the trader to sell anything most of the time, which is fine because of the difference in the purchase value and sale value from the trader. You can undercut the trader cost and sill beat the trader value. There is no inventory at the sigil trader. There likely never has been. It simply does nothing to help with the problem. Ditch the trader entirely or give it 1000 sigils as a one shot inventory, at 10k gold each. Once they're gone, it'll be back to supply/demand and costs will have settled in properly.

In any case... If anyone finds that supposed "Sigil Quest" outside of Lion's Arch, SPAM IT!!! It'll definitely help bring down the costs if there's more of them out there.

HAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, right. That's why easily 90% of the game's content is PvE, and the vast majority of development time was spent on the PvE game. To speak nothing of the fact that the PvE storyline is about the Guild Wars. Just give up that old, tired and wishful-thinking line that only hardcore PvP players still believe despite the facts. If that idea were true, you'd be playing an FPS with RPG skills... and you're not.

Hey! I'm one of those carebear PvEer's, and I think the Sigils should be either earned or sold for whatever the market will bear.
Don't throw me in with the whiner's and I won't toss you in with the hacked pker's from Diablo I.

Uhh... I guess I don't know enough about the game to understand what's going on...

Let me just say that there's a friggin reason why the sigils are at the end of Hall of Heros. If you can't do it, you need to aquire it another way. THAT'S WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!! When you find that there is a build/skill beating you, you create another build/use another skill to counter that. Warriors massing? Chain Lightning Spam. Need money? Farm an area that drops alot of loot. Nothing too difficult. Think about it, the grind is way below the requirements of other games, how many hours does it take to get to max lvl in WoW? EQ? DAoC? How many hours on top of that to get the best item?

This game is centered around guilds duking it out in the arenas. If they have a treasure to call their own, fine. You other people can think of the Temple of Ages as your reward for us doing so well in the HoH. It's PvE and gives cool ass looking items (Chaos Axe anyone?) You can't create a PvP character with that, so there's A reward for you. Firey Dragon Sword? Magmas Shield? Shadow Bow? Fellblade? These things are all here for you whiny ungrateful kiddies who can't afford 30k in your first 2 days of playing. I'm sorry you got all that, but I got what you want...

WTS | 7 Celestial Sigils | 35k | Don't PM me if you're going to bitch!

Uhh... what's a sigil and why is it so important?

They are supplied by the pvpers...

If you have a decent guild with 35 members, asking people to pool their money together for a sigil is not too bad..

(If they have ascended, 1 plat would be a fair one off price..)

I just see this as a way for the pvpers to get some money, since in pvp people do not drop items whenever they die like some other games.

edit: I think it's used to get a guild hall..or something like that.

They are for Guild to purchase a Guild Hall, some Guilds just don't have enough members yet to get or the teamwork worked out to win them in the Tombs...so other places or higher up guilds that win alot sell them for large amounts of money....

You are correct, this hits my original post right on the head!



245,000 Gold and you and others like you say that gold is no big deal, I can see why you would say that.

What does a guild hall let you do?

And if that were true, you'd have a Guild hall right now.

I think it's an instanced area for guild meetings..kind of like a trophy for a guild.

But I'm not actually in a guild yet, so I'm not 100% sure how it all works.

A guild hall is where you go to get a team together for GvG.

Their really not that impressive to look at, you just meet 7 other guildmates, and hit the Enter Mission button.

Then answer me this WHY is there a Sigil Trader?

Why in the Beta's was it possible to purchase a Sigil and now its not?

Did AN make a change in the game?
NO

Is it being manipulated by those that have figured out a loophole and are exploiting it for their own gain?
Yes

Why do you think the intent of the game is to have EVERYONE go through the PvE in order to get the skills and special items they will need for PvP?

Oh and lets check the Box shall we, here is direct quote:
Your skill will be your legend, you'll prove you worth with every battle as skill NOT hours played, decides your fate. Wether battling horrific monsters OR competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat."

That statement would lead me to believe that the game was designed for BOTH PvE and PvP and to have one facet have the ability to control what access the other has to items in the game is rediculous.

I've only been in the HoH twice, [EDIT] won both times, [/EDIT] and I've played for 11 days. One of those farming. I did not rush through and I've never played the game before release. I did things in a mannerly pace that I would an everyday mmorpg that I'd play. Frankly, the gold gain is quite fast (around 10k per hour) and the item drops are face towards PvE characters with neat looking weapons that arn't available in PvP.

I didn't want to just add this to my last post...

You forgot that ToA is completely dependent on us PvP'ers, which is crap for farming so we don't care about it. You've been served.

You do have a say in it...you can buy them, or go through the hall of heroes a couple of times..it wouldn't kill you.

A lot of people seem to have mistaken "This game is designed for casual gamers" for "Everything in this game is easy, and you'll have it all finished within a week."

Just pool your cash, bite the bullet and pay one of those "damned pvp guilds"