Cuz me likeh teh pwetty wulf.....rank6+
If you are being honest, you will take a rank6+ way sooner than a rank0
You will take a FoW armor warrior sooner than a 1.5 k armor warrior..
Because they keep farming or buying items on ebay?
You're talking about rank6+ doesnt say anything etc, but you have got to admit the rate of good players is much higher at rank6+ than rank0?
80%>40%?
The rank rave, whats the big deal?
Antisocial
Navaros
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Roza
People who judge other players by rank are either elitist (they feel rank is important because THEY are rank+ something), silly or lazy.
It is easy to determine whether a player is good by another good player. Ask for skill-bar, ask about a skill, ask about something else. The reaction you get will let you determine the level of the player with much greater accuracy than any rank shown. Rank 3+ will only tell you that a player has played tombs frequently for a while (not whether they are any good, they may have IWAY-ed for months or got to rank 3 in one weekend, no way to tell). Rank6+ players will generally be competent as they will most likely have been in good groups fairly often, though they may also be just obsesive PuG or IWAY players with a lot of playing time behind them). And a rank 1 might be just as good as a rank 9. Nowadays, so many people get to rank 3+ due to the IWAY thing. Imho, if a player got to rank 6 by IWAYing, they are probably less suitable for anything besides IWAY then a rank3+ not having done that (it shows that they are happy playing the same simple tactic over and over, rather than experimenting with the many options in this game, which is generally not a sign of great intelligence). The importance that rank has in the eyes of many players is probably the the worst thing about tombs and about the game in general. It makes PvP hard to get into for many players. I would guess that for every 1 good rank6+ player, there are 3 potentially equally good players that give tombs a try but get put off by the fact that without rank, they can only find very newbie pugs or IWAY pugs. For these players, the only answer is finding a good guild, patient fame farming (not attractive) or getting lucky and finding a good group and becoming friends with them (which is not likely with most good groups having this l33t rank+6 only attitude). So, in short: rank+ something requirements are the scourge of pvp. |
And there is no freakin' way that a rank 1 player would be anywhere near as good as rank 9, even if the rank 9 IWAYed himself all the way up.
This is what I always find so ludicrous about the anti-rank afficianados. They claim rank means nothing, yet they also claim you need rank to get into a good group. Well guess what - you can't have it both ways! If rank means nothing, then unranked groups would be saturated all over the place and getting into them and winning with them would be no problem at all.
I say, it's high-time for anti-rank afficianados to stop the hypocrisy.
Xenrath
Everyone starts off at zero. The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!". Navaros' post illustrates this thinking perfectly...
Navaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
Everyone starts off at zero. The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!". Navaros' post illustrates this thinking perfectly...
|
Why should good players handicap their own parties for the sake of "giving others a chance". Giving others a chance is very time-consuming. They should be learning on their own time with players of their own caliber (ie: other unranked players) rather than leeching off the skills of better players, wasting the time of better players, and dragging the better players' teams down to their level.
Deadlyjunk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
I don't mean to sound like a jerk; I'm just being honest. If you were an employer who was hiring, would you wanna take the less-qualified applicant, or the more-qualified applicant?
Why should good players handicap their own parties for the sake of "giving others a chance". Giving others a chance is very time-consuming. They should be learning on their own time with players of their own caliber (ie: other unranked players) rather than leeching off the skills of better players, wasting the time of better players, and dragging the better players' teams down to their level. |
Willy Rockwell
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.
Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck. Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking. Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6. |
I would be embarrassed to belong to a guild containing such arrogant jerks as this.
Shmash Witdaclub
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gwenhywar
I find it rather hard to believe that people would kick someone from the guild because of their rank - there must have been other reasons, because guildies could care less about what rank someone is, they care how GOOD you are as a player, how do you fit in the guild as a personality, how active you are, etc.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gwenhywar
I'm guessing since you were away from GW they probably decided you was not active enough (did you tell them why you was away?). Or maybe you were not in fact as good buddies as you thought you were ...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gwenhywar
I really don't think your case falls into the general ranting about the (un)importance of rank, you should just talk it out with your old guildies - if you want to get back in. If not, just move on - if you are a good player, there are plenty of decent guilds out there ...
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As for posting the guild name and rank like someone asked before I will not do that because I myself do not want to be judged with having bad character. This guild was recently in the top 100, and has been talked about on guru boards before (i know many of them have). But I am not going to mention the guild name or any of the guildies because I do not want to trash any of the people I used to be friends with in retaliation (sp) for what they did to me.
Shmash
burai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shmash Witdaclub
As for posting the guild name and rank like someone asked before I will not do that because I myself do not want to be judged with having bad character. This guild was recently in the top 100, and has been talked about on guru boards before (i know many of them have). But I am not going to mention the guild name or any of the guildies because I do not want to trash any of the people I used to be friends with in retaliation (sp) for what they did to me.
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crimsonfilms
Quote:
| Knowing that person and his abilities will tell you a lot more about him than his rank ever could. |
As rank gives you a predefined system with absolute numerical values.
Your suggestion however is vague can be interpreted in any way by any player.
RANK DOES MEAN SOMETHING. It is not the end all and be all solution but it does mean something.
Finally, if he was already in the guild don't you think they would already be familiar with his game play? Obviously it was not good enough to overcast rank. Right? (I am not trying to put you down Smash, just being logical here).
Quote:
| Did they suck at 5 but suddenly get elite at 6? |
Quote:
| The problem is when the ones who make some headway and get higher ranks refuse to let the others (who maybe started later than they did) a chance to get involved/progress because "they suck!". |
So why would a l33t player invite a casual not ranked player to his team again? To be nice?
And BTW - stop calling it "IGAY" or any putdowns.
Until one of you can come up with a better build (I will argue that if you like) don't do it. The truth is there are very few builds, if any, that is as easy to run and actually wins in Tombs, let alone win the Hall.
Navaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell
And how did those "special" players get to rank 6? Did they skip the previous ranks so as not to appear noobish? Did they suck at 5 but suddenly get elite at 6?
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One day I joined an unranked IWAY PUG just for the heck of it, and that's exactly what happened.
Special players got to rank 3 and 6 by clawing their way up the ladder with other unranked players, during which time they learned better than to do stuff like what I just mentioned.
trevok
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
The simple reality is that most players who are not rank 6 do indeed suck.
Hence it is only logical to presume that someone who is not rank 6 or more is likely to suck. Yes, there are rank 6 players who suck. But that's besides the point. The likelihood of a rank 6 or higher player sucking is far less than that of a rank 3 player sucking. Therefore it is perfectly logical to not want anything less than rank 6. |
crimsonfilms
Quote:
| You can't take an abstract concept such as being skilled at PvP in Guild Wars and reduce this to a materially existing number which can thus be used to compare various players to each other. |
You absolutely can, the fallacy is the end all be all attitude towards that numerical value. They are supposed to be taken as a starting point and not THE solution.
fiery
when will this thread every die.. guy who got kicked out.. suck it up get a new guild..if they ranked go gain and claw ya way back up and ask for an invite..if your better off go get another guild..
yes people are farming rank so what..the noob PUG groups..dont join.. if you want fame and rank make a group...make a build.. and do it..i mean if you want rank go work on it.. no need keep replying back and forth how so many groups are doing IWAY...and are people unexperienced just to get rank..
and yet you still get those people who are rank 3 and still doing it wrong..what can we do? nothing...they doing IWAY they see it works they do it..no way we can stop them..if we keep going on saying o the guild kicked me of not being rank. go gain some..
IWAY is fast fame when done right and can hold halls..but with my guilds new HOH build... im not complaning about 4 Flawless battles..and not running iway.
also to those people denying to use TS or VENT even for the simple IWAY.. or any build.. dont invite or accept there group..if they cant see VENT and TS is a big help for any help.. than you can see how they will do.
i think we past the point when this thread.. is overdone..and the ridiculous is coming out.
yes people are farming rank so what..the noob PUG groups..dont join.. if you want fame and rank make a group...make a build.. and do it..i mean if you want rank go work on it.. no need keep replying back and forth how so many groups are doing IWAY...and are people unexperienced just to get rank..
and yet you still get those people who are rank 3 and still doing it wrong..what can we do? nothing...they doing IWAY they see it works they do it..no way we can stop them..if we keep going on saying o the guild kicked me of not being rank. go gain some..
IWAY is fast fame when done right and can hold halls..but with my guilds new HOH build... im not complaning about 4 Flawless battles..and not running iway.
also to those people denying to use TS or VENT even for the simple IWAY.. or any build.. dont invite or accept there group..if they cant see VENT and TS is a big help for any help.. than you can see how they will do.
Quote:
| Its SAT, a passing grade in an arts class, number of albums sold, 4 star restaurants, the perfect 10 girl, etc. |
Sir Krohan
I have the faction of r6's but yet Im rank 3.
You ask why? Cause I dont care about rank. I dont want to be ''l33t'' neither cool by typing /rank /fame every 1 minute. I used to tomb back then when there where no ''R3/6+ LFP NO NOOBZ PLZ FLASH RANK FIRST!!!!'' and I enjoyed every minute of it.
You ask why? Cause I dont care about rank. I dont want to be ''l33t'' neither cool by typing /rank /fame every 1 minute. I used to tomb back then when there where no ''R3/6+ LFP NO NOOBZ PLZ FLASH RANK FIRST!!!!'' and I enjoyed every minute of it.
fiery
as i will say again when will this thread die...people we can see rank is ya problem.. no need keep saying.. i see groups doing LF rank + blah blah blah..and to those not really caring about rank ..well good for you.. and to those wanting rank.. go get ya guild to do HOH.. we dont need the same replys over and over than being ridiculed.
Medion
Why not reset all fame and rank??
I mean, as those rank 6+ players are so good, they will get there back again right? Then the R0 people can join them and become rank 6 too.
Was this serious??? Do you really look at what armour someone wears if (s)he can join your group??
That's really stupid I think.
I mean, as those rank 6+ players are so good, they will get there back again right? Then the R0 people can join them and become rank 6 too.
Quote:
|
If you are being honest, you will take a rank6+ way sooner than a rank0 You will take a FoW armor warrior sooner than a 1.5 k armor warrior.. Because they keep farming or buying items on ebay? |
That's really stupid I think.
Shmash Witdaclub
quit reading it then - quite simple. when you stop reading it, it will be gone for your own sake of mind...
just was curious to see if many others were experiencing the same thing. you are really not giving barely anything to contribute to the thread. infact your last 3 posts have been the same...
sorry to ruin, or waste in your opinion, your precious time that you are spending reading the boards.
Shmash
just was curious to see if many others were experiencing the same thing. you are really not giving barely anything to contribute to the thread. infact your last 3 posts have been the same...
sorry to ruin, or waste in your opinion, your precious time that you are spending reading the boards.
Shmash
crimsonfilms
Quote:
| as i will say again when will this thread die |
Don't you think you should practice what you preach?
Navaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Medion
Why not reset all fame and rank
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Medion
Quote:
| No way. You can't flush down all the countless hundreds of hours r6 and r9 have put in to get their rank down the toilet. The very idea is absurd. If you wanna throw away your own time then that's your business, but throwing away other people's time - no way. |
Wasn't it done with the guildladder too??
I didn't hear any complain about that.
crimsonfilms
Quote:
| I didn't hear any complain about that. |
Yeah - reseting rank is absolutely absurd.
Don't like them? Don't use it.
Yichi
If they reset the rank system in GW, i will quit playing PVP altogether. I worked too hard for what I have onyl to have someone pissed off that they dont have any start a petition and get the rank reset. If ANET truly wants to lose 90% of its pvp population, then go ahead and reset it. Those people will 99% chance gaurenteed not be going to try to earn that back by playing GW
The deal with rank and fame is this. (note its a vicious cycle) is that if you dont have it, you want it. If you want it, you have to play with people that have it. The people that have it wont take you because you dont have it.
The deal with rank and fame is this. (note its a vicious cycle) is that if you dont have it, you want it. If you want it, you have to play with people that have it. The people that have it wont take you because you dont have it.
Akathrielah
If they reset rank all of the good players will simply play amongst themselves, and the narrow (1%) chance that anyone that is unknown to them will get to play with them will become zero. As simple as that.
Look at this way, Anet decides to cave in and resets rank. Now there is a sea of people and aside from the people that I KNOW are good (either from friends list, previous experiences, other players word of mouth, etc), there is now no way to quickly determine the skill and experience of a random player. Asking questions and examining skill bars means little when any random joe pvp can go to a forum and pick out a decent build to emulate, plus even WITH the rank system, tombs groups already take long enough to form, imagine how long it would be if you try to form a PuG with a "screening" process, have fun spending 4 hours building a group that may not even make it past the Underworld.
And as a side note, isn't there already 5 other threads discussing this? Do we really need another one?
Look at this way, Anet decides to cave in and resets rank. Now there is a sea of people and aside from the people that I KNOW are good (either from friends list, previous experiences, other players word of mouth, etc), there is now no way to quickly determine the skill and experience of a random player. Asking questions and examining skill bars means little when any random joe pvp can go to a forum and pick out a decent build to emulate, plus even WITH the rank system, tombs groups already take long enough to form, imagine how long it would be if you try to form a PuG with a "screening" process, have fun spending 4 hours building a group that may not even make it past the Underworld.
And as a side note, isn't there already 5 other threads discussing this? Do we really need another one?
Shmash Witdaclub
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
No way. You can't flush down all the countless hundreds of hours r6 and r9 have put in to get their rank down the toilet. The very idea is absurd. If you wanna throw away your own time then that's your business, but throwing away other people's time - no way.
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this would be quite a crazy thing to do because there are so many skilled players out there that do indeed deserve their well earned rank. Not to mention a rank reset would be pointless if you were looking to solve a problem with those people that have no skill that just constantly farm fame - they would just earn their fame the same way they did all over again.
a guild ladder reset does serve a purpose as someone else has already set. think of it as a new season in your favorite sport or something. keep things both fresh and somewhat exciting.
Shmash
burai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fiery
when will this thread every die..
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There seems to be a lot of elitism in the forums too
alexcave
I am capped at only 159k faction and have everything unlocked....pls Anet do something about this.
Months ago fame was a good indication of whether people had skills unlocked, could play competently etc, but with so many people r6 or above good groups are now formed from friends lists without any regard to rank. If I cannot find what we need from from friends lists, I wait until they are online rather than pick up a random person.
I suppose this is just as elitist as rank, but until Arenanet do something about it (i.e. add an emote for every rank) there is not much choice.
Months ago fame was a good indication of whether people had skills unlocked, could play competently etc, but with so many people r6 or above good groups are now formed from friends lists without any regard to rank. If I cannot find what we need from from friends lists, I wait until they are online rather than pick up a random person.
I suppose this is just as elitist as rank, but until Arenanet do something about it (i.e. add an emote for every rank) there is not much choice.
Shadowspawn X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by alexcave
I am capped at only 159k faction and have everything unlocked....pls Anet do something about this.
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crimsonfilms
Quote:
| I am capped at only 159k faction and have everything unlocked....pls Anet do something about this. |
What does your faction have to do with the Rank system?
I am unsure why you would use rank as indication of skills unlocked! There is no correlation.
This goes back to my argument that the rank system is not really broken but people are applying it incorrectly!
Zaklex
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Navaros
I don't mean to sound like a jerk; I'm just being honest. If you were an employer who was hiring, would you wanna take the less-qualified applicant, or the more-qualified applicant?
Why should good players handicap their own parties for the sake of "giving others a chance". Giving others a chance is very time-consuming. They should be learning on their own time with players of their own caliber (ie: other unranked players) rather than leeching off the skills of better players, wasting the time of better players, and dragging the better players' teams down to their level. |
crimsonfilms
Quote:
| guilds playing in Tombs for anything other than fun, if they even do as most don't consider Tombs to be a good PvP format. |
If they decide for some reason to ever fill up slot number 8 with a PUG I seriously doubt it will be a rank 2 player - unless of course they are a known player from another guild.
dimirpaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shmash Witdaclub
I was in a top reputable guild for some time now and I was just booted the other day while I was inactive due to recovering from surgery.
Anyway, when I came back I asked why I was booted and they said that they had decided that they were going to go to a strictly rank 6 or 7+ guild. Okay, I guess I can understand that, I am only rank 3. Why am I only rank 3? Do I suck? I of course do not think so. I am one of guild wars' thousands of casual players. I did not have neither 1/4th of the amount of time played or deaths accrued as the amount of my fellow guild members, so how can I be expected to be the same rank as them? What upsets me the most about all this is the fact that I thought we were all close in the guild. I did not know any of them in RL, but met in them all in game. But as we did tombs and gvg battles and such we became rather close in terms of internet gamers. We knew eachother and we all knew what the others were about. Then I got booted. So, my question why is it so important that every guild member be a certain rank? An obvious answer (some may argue) that the amount of ones rank shows the amount of there pvp knowledge. cough IWAY BS cough Others might say that they need the room in guild for more members - okay I can understand this one; however, my guild only had like 15 active members. I am just curious if other people have experienced situations similar to this one? This event has really left a bad taste in my mouth towards guild wars and my previous guild. I am kind of upset towards guild wars since the only thing left for people to do in game for most people is fame farm - which I believe is partially a reason that this happened with my guild. The other obvious reason I am upset is because of the actions of my former guild. And for those of you that want to flame, I could move on and find a new guild, you're right! It is just that I was happy with the old guild - it was not a pug guild - no immature players - everyone playing basically with the same mindset. It is kinda like I had the experience of being in an almost flawless guild and I am not sure if I want anything else. I am thinking about hanging up my hammer now til chap 2 comes out. Anyway, anyone else have any comments on the rank rave? Shmash |
streetboy
rank does not mean a thing to me, since you can farm the same way as gold. I knew people playing not good in neither PVP nor PVE, but they can farm to rank 3 easily in one week with IWAY and MM team.
BiggDunc
i hate elitist guilds
i train my guys, and try to elevate them to higher levels, rather than kick them cuz they arent l33t...
hit me up ... www.teamfahq.com if u want a strong guild, that gvg's each night... we've been down to 208... and aiming for top 100 next "season"
i train my guys, and try to elevate them to higher levels, rather than kick them cuz they arent l33t...
hit me up ... www.teamfahq.com if u want a strong guild, that gvg's each night... we've been down to 208... and aiming for top 100 next "season"
Kai Nui
I was let into a guild with rank 1 (I had attained 1 fame per PUG that had actually gotten past ghostlies and didn't suck.) so I had tried real hard. Comp arenas was about the only place I could go. One day I saw a recruitment with a guy starting a breakoff from a godly guild that I didn't even hear about. For the heck of it I PMed him and he said he'd try me out, and said, "Rank isn't everything." Anyway, I tried out (with my Me/Mo) and did good enough to join. The guild is very small and made up of just a few elite/1337 players, and I'm included. I'm also the second youngest, the youngest being a 13 year old Flemmish boy who created our website. Now you think this is where the story ends, well you're wrong. I wasn't able to make it to our guild's first HoH. They used two rank 6 mesmers to use the guild's HoH mesmer build (That I had been owning and using recently) and they completely sucked at it after many failed attempts. I got to stay in because of my unlikely "godliness" or so the guild leader calls it. We're still together we use Vent and all our guild is owning, only thing is we could use a few more members in the same timezone, other than that, we're preparing for our first Guild War after a few more HoH's.
glenn_rolfe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by streetboy
rank does not mean a thing to me, since you can farm the same way as gold. I knew people playing not good in neither PVP nor PVE, but they can farm to rank 3 easily in one week with IWAY and MM team.
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Most higher ranked PUG's (non-friend list groups) generally pull 8 people together, work out a build between each other, and assign roles expecting everyone can fill any of the roles. If you come from IWAY land, you are screwed.
Don't think IWAY is your answer to getting into better PUG's down the track.
c h a v e z
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Medion
`
Wasn't it done with the guildladder too?? I didn't hear any complain about that. |
EDIT - unless your like war machine and are good/play 24/7 with 7 smurfs that have over 200 games each wtf!!~~
Clusmas
Wow it would be very nice if rank worked the same way as guild rating, but on an individual basis. You could determine how much is won/lost by the median rank of each player on the team. I think this would make it alot more competitive and obviously much less farmable.
Shen Xi
and if they did it this way then the poor gits who don't ahve rnk now will never get it.
i know if they did this then groups i play in would eb a lot more picky about who gets to play in our groups as we wuldn't want to lose fame/ranking.
i'm only r6 but i played the long ahrd way of doing nromal builds with pugs as my original guild was a pve one.
i know if they did this then groups i play in would eb a lot more picky about who gets to play in our groups as we wuldn't want to lose fame/ranking.
i'm only r6 but i played the long ahrd way of doing nromal builds with pugs as my original guild was a pve one.
Roza
I am not saying rank does not tell you anything. I don't think there are many rank 6 self mending W/Mo's with fiery dragon swords out there, for example. But many people tend judge on the basis of rank only.
Last night, I was with my guild doing a spike build in tombs. One monk had to go and we invited a rank 5 monk. He asked us what our rank was and found that most were rank 3 only (we do GvG more than tombs) and 2 not even that. We knew our build well enough, but he soon started to get bossy on TS. And our caller, having a lower rank, seemed happy to follow his advise/orders. We run into IWAY after one win. At that point, the rank 5 monk starts saying: "Kill the spirits, kill em". Fertile was not among them, nor EOE. And our caller does as he orders, deviating from the previously agreed on plan of immediately taking out some fury wars, forcing us to run into the mass of pets and W/R's, trying to find the spirits and taking them out with our (fairly slow) spiking spells, while our monks are quickly overcome. A Quick loss. The monk mumbles something about low ranking players and disappears.
My point is: don't believe the hype. Sure, high rank players are more likely to be good then low rank players, but this isn't always the case. And they are also far more likely to be arrogant twats.
This is interesting: If you were an employer who was hiring, would you hire on the basis of the previous salary earned by the applicant? Sure, someone with a higher previous salary is statistically more likely to be good at his job, to have more experience, a better education and all that. But would you hire them based on this only? Would you consider making having earned an x amount previously a requirement? Would you say that in politics people who have held the most important positions are the most suitable persons to be in power? I do hope you would not.
As in the real world, in Guild Wars, l33tism is a serious obstruction to people being judged on merit.
Last night, I was with my guild doing a spike build in tombs. One monk had to go and we invited a rank 5 monk. He asked us what our rank was and found that most were rank 3 only (we do GvG more than tombs) and 2 not even that. We knew our build well enough, but he soon started to get bossy on TS. And our caller, having a lower rank, seemed happy to follow his advise/orders. We run into IWAY after one win. At that point, the rank 5 monk starts saying: "Kill the spirits, kill em". Fertile was not among them, nor EOE. And our caller does as he orders, deviating from the previously agreed on plan of immediately taking out some fury wars, forcing us to run into the mass of pets and W/R's, trying to find the spirits and taking them out with our (fairly slow) spiking spells, while our monks are quickly overcome. A Quick loss. The monk mumbles something about low ranking players and disappears.
My point is: don't believe the hype. Sure, high rank players are more likely to be good then low rank players, but this isn't always the case. And they are also far more likely to be arrogant twats.
Quote:
| I don't mean to sound like a jerk; I'm just being honest. If you were an employer who was hiring, would you wanna take the less-qualified applicant, or the more-qualified applicant? |
As in the real world, in Guild Wars, l33tism is a serious obstruction to people being judged on merit.
Sereng Amaranth
What's funny is people saying they are rank 5 when that is not provable. Any IWAY farmer can get to 125 fame and say they are rank 5.