Spec mode good or bad?

Update - Wednesday, December 21

Season's Greetings

(Please sing along to the tune of The Twelve Days of Christmas.)

On the twelfth moon of Wintersday ArenaNet gave to me...
Blessings from Dwayna
Festive decorations
One mighty snowman
Weapons made of candy
Gifts that might kill you
Snow-covered henchmen
New winter monsters
Some really long quests

Lots of drinking Dwarves
Gingerbread shields
Curses from Grenth
And a new way to watch PvP!

That's right, Observer Mode!

Now you can watch as top-ranked guilds battle it out in the Tombs and in rated guild matches. The upcoming Guild Wars Regional Playoffs and World Championship will also be available for viewing as they happen. The details are as follows:

Whenever a top 100 ranked guild plays in the Tombs or in a rated guild challenge, the game is automatically available for everyone to see. Other "special event" games will also be available for viewing.

Everything that observers see is delayed 15 minutes from the original game, to prevent cheating. Games become available for observation approximately 15 minutes after they start, and remain available until approximately 15 minutes after they finish.

While you are watching a game, you can chat with your fellow observers. There is no limit to the number of people who can simultaneously observe a game, but for purposes of chatting, observers are randomly assigned into groups of about 100 people.

In Observer Mode, the Map Area window displays the positions of all characters on the map. You can click on any character to jump there. Alternately, you can use Auto Camera mode to let the game pick the most interesting targets for you.

A new heads-up display automatically shows you the Health of teams that you are currently watching. If you prefer to use the Party window to view party status details and to select players to watch, you can easily switch the Party window back and forth between teams, or you may choose to view multiple Party windows and watch different teams in each window.

Ok, very exciting, right? But why is there a spectator mode?

Of course, people want to see high ranked guild play but do they want to be watched? Builds and special talents are immediately lost. I mean if there are unlimited spaces available to watch, any old random-joe can just walk right in and take an entire build. I remember [insert guild name]'s build being posted in these very forums (sorry i cant remember who) but the end conclusion was that the guild probably did not want their build advertised around public forums. Now isnt this the same from what the "prophecy" has told? Won't these guilds want a little privacy? Probably.

Knowing the build and running the build are 2 different things.

Even still, would you want to publicise something that you made up for your own guild's purposes? Builds are key, regardless of if you know how to play them.

I'm happy for people who wanted the Spec mode. It is interesting to see these builds in action on a 15 minute delay.

for me, as an all around player of PvP and PvE, I get both goodies today.

If you create a build and play it in any sort of PVP, you're advertising it.

Not to public... only to the other team who may not even be given the chance to see all of your players and their skills

Aren't builds also about when you use the skills in combination with other people of your team?
You can't see two (or more) people at the same time can you?

Also, crimsonfilms is right that there is a difference between knowing and playing a build.

You can watch a pro football match on TV and see the line-up of both teams, and you can see more or less clearly what positions and tactics they play. Does that mean you can easily copy the line-up and tactics of the winning team with an amateur team and win aswell? Off course not! The same applies to GuildWars.

I used to spectate a lot of matches and watched demos of top teams in Unreal Tournament. It was entertaining to watch, and I often learned a bit about their tactics. But that doesn't mean that my clan was able to copy the tactics of a top clan. There is so much more behind a well coordinated top team that just the things you can see as a spectator: The team communication (probably over voicecom) and the execution of the tactics and the build. Rest asured, those can not be stolen or copied easily.

If a Guild is afraid of someone seeing their build, copying them and ultimately beating them with it, they obviously aren't very good players.

Observer mode is too adicting. I was late for work this morning.....

I don't think build stealing will be a problem. As crimsonfilms said, it's one thing knowing the build, it's another thing playing it effectively.

I think the observer mode is great, can't see how anybody wouldn't welcome it. Though I do wish you were able to see the Local Chat during the battle, just to see the thrash talk and insults!

I'm already sick of the observer chat though, I'm glad you can close it, it's just full of braggers and bullshitters trying to prove they know the game. Before the battle has even started somebody will have typed "Red is going to win", "Blue is going to win". Everybody is an expert in observer mode. It's so easy to say things like "They attacked too soon, bad tactic" when you're just watching. "x is pro", "x is a noob"...shut up, we don't care, make a worthwhile observation! And if I see another person say "I owned x before" I'm gonna lose it!

Agreed, observer chat is horrible. It was particularly bad when EW was running IWAY, every other person was calling them noobs probably without even knowing who they were.

They did lose though :P

I owned x before!

Anyway.. You're right about both it being great, and about the observer chat.

Observer Mode: two HUUUGE thumbs up
Anet, you guys rock.

meh, even "sucky" guilds will eventually learn it. Who cares, all the builds get leaked out eventually right? Its a nice touch, I havent checked it out yet, Im more into dominating, than watching domination lol

Yes, observor mode rocks.

No, the people I get to observe was boring as hell. (playing everything by the book... if you know what I mean)

Now I want GvG observer >< Alot of people is probably going to say something about this thou.

Im tired of some of these observers tho...

all they do is say...
LOOK AT ALL THESE LOSERS OBSERVING
LOL NUBS
NOOB THIS, NOOB THAT

You can turn off the observer chat but when your chat'n with someone else and this kid comes along say'n LOL NOOB YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT? LOL LOL LOL when I was in the middle of an explaination.... its getting old.

oh and also... what about all this recorded actions using bandwith; how is that going to effect the servers... maybe thats why It wasnt there at the beggining since low funds for upkeeping this type of option open... 100ppl can observe a battle... lots of connections going around; I wonder how this works...

I saw some guy in Tombs, obviously after seeing himself in observer mode, going "So...does anybody recognise me?"

Sad!

lol we just got our asses owned in tombs, and got called noobs. These observers are nasty, but its all good fun and builds arent meant to be kept secret anyway.

lol I wouldn't worry about being called a newb by some observer who probably can't beat the unworthies.

Its easy to be an armchair expert.

I say it's bad because it is indeed a way for any joe to steal advanced tactics made up by smart players. Now instead of only smart players doing things in an ideal way, everyone is going to be doing so because they saw it in observer mode.

Observer mode should be consent-based.

Awww poor smarty-pants player is sooo scawed of the scawy newbies.

Build isn't the most important thing to make a good guild. The main reason is they are good players and they do team work very well.
And people who copy build are not good players, so they cant make good team or good guild.

Armchair quarterbacking...FTW

Those who can, do, those who can't, watch and bitch about it on Monday.

That statement is completely wrong.

If being able to play the build has nothing to do with it then you should tell some of the top guilds that ran 8 paladin premades (as a joke) and held hall for half an hour.

The build is obviously junk but they knew how to play it. Playing the build is everything. Most skills are balanced enough that in game tactics are key. Since I can't hear their conversation on vent or ts I don't think this is a big deal.

wait can you observe people playing now? and if so how?

Press Menu. There's an Observe button.

I suspect the loudest complainers about this will be the mediocre players. The good ones don't mind, as they know it's about skill, the weak players will learn, but the arrogant egomaniacs that think they are special will be afraid.

You can observe GvG, I did it last night. You just need to wait till there's a match that includes a high ranked team.

Rico

If only there was a way to watch your own guild. (Please, someone correct me!)

Build is the most overrated part of a match. Ultimately this game comes down to strategy and execution of said strategy. The build is merely the set of tools that you've determined that you *need* to execute that strategy effectively.

That's basically why I'm not worried about people 'stealing' builds. What I'm not happy about is the potential for abuse through this - I.E., teams seeing what the other teams are running on a given night and bringing a metagamed hate build against that. It takes a couple runs to really get into a groove with a build and play it effectively. So switching builds after every match is unrealistic, but observer mode might make not doing it a liability.

I don't suspect this is going to be a problem, realistically, as other guilds are going to be in the same boat and not want to switch builds on a whim. Hell, I could tell you what all the top american guilds have been running with a high degree of accuracy, and I haven't seen them changing outside a couple of tweaks.

What I do hope to see from this is a better understanding of the metagame, faster evolutions, and less build stagnation. We'll see how much of an effect this ends up having.

Peace,
-CxE

I agree with Ensign(i think thats the second time this week to, well said)

And anyways most top guilds have more than one effective halls build, they usually play what they find fun at the time.

And hopefully all this will stop the noobs that go to forums and say get rid of fame ist too hard to get blah blah blah. Finally they can see what a real tombs team is composed of and what it takes to play in tombs. They will see it is a lot more complex than they think. They will also understand how important communication is when they steal a build and try it and get pwned anyways.

Like the football analogy, build is only part of it.

Also don't you think they should have a rating system or something so that the best matches of the week get a special section and can be watched at any time, not just right afterwards.

Also since my guild is in top 100 i am looking forward to watching to see what went wrong after we lose. Learning opporunity FTW!!

Actually there are a couple things I hope people learn from observer mode in tombs:

1) How ridiculous the Courtyard map is, that's consistently an eight minute staring contest.
2) Just how often the winner in HoH comes down to which team *doesn't* get double teamed.
3) How little the 'top' guilds care about tombs. iWay and Minion Factory FTW.

Peace,
-CxE

I think its an awesome addition, im part of a competitive tombs guild and If anyone is scared of people copying thier build they seriously need to get a clue.

Observer mode will give unranked new players a way to learn the maps, learn decent tactics and learn how to counter builds like IWAY.

Hopefully it will also get more people playing pvp and raise the general skill level of players, I think GW pvp is going to enter a golden age with with this fantastic addition. Anet take a bow, i'm extremely impressed.

I don't see why some enterprising community member won't eventually have a game film collection that they sport on a website actually....

I gotta step in here..... anyone can hold Halls at the right time of day. Bla bla bla. Your argument does not stand up. If 8 Paladins tried to tak the hall from one of the better Tombs Guilds, they would get laughed at and slaughtered.

Builds do not matter to an extreme degree, but this wil open up the best guilds builds to the casual observer. If a guild sits in vent and each person watches one person, there is no way they cannot get every single skill that the team uses. That was simply not possible before, and reproducing builds that beat you has never been easier.


While it may take more than a couple of runs to get in the groove with a build for a lesser team, there is now nothing stopping a bunch of scrubs from copying a build to the "T" and practicing it till they can run it profeciently.

This will change the face of the game, I just wish they would fix the bugs before they added things like this........


http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34103

How can some one call u noob when they r not even in tombs. They probobly cant evem get in a tombs build. I congratulate in guild who allows others to witness there battle. And is true to have 100 people in one chat room with half the people saying HAHAH Wat a bunch of noobs my guild would sooooooooo own em. Still spec mode is great. Thumbs up Anet keep us on the edge of our seats!

1. In regards to point 1, that's because almost no one has the fortitude to arrange gank deals. People need to be more open to making gank deals. That would make Courtyard not take so long and the result would be much less random.

2. /agreed. "The ultimate battle" (what the HoH claims to be) should not be determined by 16 players vs. 8 players. That's happenstance that determines the winner most of the time, not skill.

3. If the "top Guilds" can't beat IWAY or MF, then they are not really top Guilds. Not even close.

So if a bunch of scrubs copy a build so well that they learn the in's and out's of it, to the point of beating top tier teams with it then what is the problem? That shows observer mode is going to make people want to practice and to think. If scrubs are really interested in not being scrubs anymore then how can you complain about that?

Top guilds can lose to IWAY if they are experimenting with stuff in Tombs that really is weak vs high DPS. IWAY is not a n00b build, it's just that plenty of noobs run it.

I got a question, by allowing other people to see your builds, wouldn't we see more team with the same type of builds going against each other in PvP? This mode is interesting althought the drawback is how many guilds will be copying other's builds in hope of being able to defeat a team in PvP arena or HoH.

The other part i like is to learn what strategies is needed to counter these builds. By allowing players to look at different matches, you can figure out what your team should prepare for and what skills they needed.