Bad Business at Arena Net

Chief's figures don't explain why Factions offers so much less than Prophecies. He both has them down as $50.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a similarly priced game to offer similar amounts of content.

If you want to be in denial, go right ahead and whine on in the face of simple facts. It's kind of amusing.

I'm not in denial, I just dont go whining all the time like you do just because Factions was a little shorter than Prophecies.

You even said that it's fine to have the game have a similar amount of content. The keyword there is similar, not EXACTLY the same amount. Yet you still complain.

The point is that GW is a far better bargain OVERALL compared to P2P games. You people whining about lack of content dont understand this, you keep forgetting what a bargain this game is. If ANET gave us everything we wanted there would be no business and there would be no GW.

Personally, I think Factions offered a similar amount to Prophecies, just in a different package. Prophecies has 24 missions (I don't really count the dopple as a mission), Factions has 12 (don't count shiro for the same reason as the dopple). Sure, you have 1/2 as many missions, but in Prophecies you can't re-enter the missions as explorable areas with different mobs, bosses, etc. The content in Factions is just more tightly packed and interconnected than in Prophecies. In Prophecies, you jump from Divinity Coast right to Druid's Overlook, with ZERO explaination of how you got through the Talmark Wilderness or Majesty's Rest, atleast in Factions everything is more tightly connected, no random jumps across a large section of continent just because you finished a mission. As far as number of missions goes being a strict guidelibe as to whether Factions is inferior to Prophecies and should have been called an expansion with a lower price, etc etc, lets compare it to HL2 which is by all definitions a standalone game. Factions, 12 missions (technically) to complete to say you've finished the game. So that's 6 hours, lets add another 4 hours (probably more actually) to do the primary quests between missions, so we're up to 10 hours. If memory serves, it took me about that long to finish HL2, and I wasn't rushing. So timewise, Factions fits as a standalone game. Number of missions doesn't matter and as such should not be considered. In my opinion, Factions offers just as much as Prophecies, it's just packaged differently.

Except, Factions has no Underworld of its own, no Fissure of Woe, no Sorrow's Furnace, No Tomb of Primal Kings. No strectches of land like Lornar's Pass, Dreadnought's Drift, Snake Dance, Mineral Springs and Ice Floe that are fun to explore and to go skill capping. When you finish the story, that's it.

No areas to explore just for fun (every inch is more or less tied to the storyline), and no 'hidden' little outposts like the Ice Cave and the Maguuma Stade where you can find skilltrainers with obscure skills. It's not even possible to move off the beaten, story-driven path at all. Just a quest-driven ride past otherwise locked gates. Factions offers no options except for the default one of following the story.

Don't get me started about the Challenge missions. They're beyond boring. Tried them all once and never again. (After killing 10,000 Inflicted at several areas in the game just to get past Vizunah Square, I'm expected to enjoy a 'mission' that has nothing more to it than killing even more Inflicted? Errrr... how about "No, thanks?")

But hey, everything that made me love Prophecies enough to be able to play PvE for 11 months before starting to get slightly bored... that's just grind right? Everyone who thinks so has no business making judgment calls about Faction's PvE content, because you obviously have no love for PvE to begin with.

P.S. That last paragraph wasn't in response to you, Dargon, it was a general observation. Just wanted to be clear about that.

By reading this, I could swear you've just never played Factions before. You SERIOUSLY think or "believe" that NONE of these things exist in factions, you're seriously kidding yourself. Your post is just wrong, period.

If you're upset with Factions or Guild Wars, don't vent it by spreading false truthes about a game you don't like.

100% exploration, Protector title, capped all elites. I've seen it all and none of those things exist in Factions. If they do, a little enumeration will prove me wrong, won't it?

Here's a thought for those who would prefer to see these threads closed: the very fact that Nightfall is (apparently) following more the Prophecies idea e.g. more missions, more areas, more PvE... wait for it... validates all the "whining" and complaints about Factions. You know why? Because Anet obviously seen it's a problem also and done something about it

Hopefully. I'm not holding my breath; going to see how it turns out this time before ordering.

The fiasco about full access etc. that would never have been corrected if it weren't for the massive outrage at the time. So, stop trying to dismiss things just because you've no reasonable counter other than "i think it's whining" I'm seeing that all over the forum and it has in my opinion degenerated more than a few threads. Almost like the quality of discussion/debate on GWG has declined too.

please note that the whineing had no effect on Nightfall for the simple fact that Nightfall was already half done with the entire foundation of the chapter in place when Factions was released

the game was already laid out as to what they wanted to do by the time Factions came out

And now with the release of Factions, Prophecies doesn't have an Underworld or Fissure of Woe of its own, either.

Also, bear in mind that the Titan Quests and Sorrow's Furnace update were both 4 months after the official release of a game we'd been playing off and on for almost a year already anyway. ToPK wasn't for another two or three months after that, even. ANet may yet have a similar addition for Factions, we don't know. Maybe this Nightfall jazz is part of a distraction so we don't expect a similar add-on?

Also, as you said, most of the area is tied to the storyline. As opposed to Prophecies which delivered you to the next mission area for you about half the time? So they kind of backhandedly forced you to explore more to advance the story in Factions? Not a terribly significant difference, IMO. Oh, btw, have you explored your way to the two Challenge missions deep in Luxon/Kurzick territory? That's a trek to the @$$-middle of nowhere. Obscure skill trainers were unfortunately eliminated due to the skill-acquisition system in Factions, but I think ANet was in a lose-lose situation there.

As for the Challenge missions themselves, them being boring or not is merely your opinion. You may choose to ignore their existence by not playing them, but that does not mean they don't exist and can be excluded from every discussion about content.

Personally, I like what they did with Factions maps. They didn't do a whole lot with the vertical aspect of the game in Prophecies, opting instead for a lot of sprawling landscapes. There are a lot more height contrasts and vertical artistic moves that they made use of in Factions that I appreciate. This may have decreased the amount they could make to cater to the explorer, but every decision has its benefits and drawbacks. Also, the use of the city was an interesting tool in Factions because it gave the environment more ambient life than Prophecies, where you trekked from scorched wasteland to icy wasteland to open plains to jungle to desert wasteland, eventually ending up in a fiery wasteland. However, I'm rambling.

But hey, if you don't like Factions? Don't play it. Not like you have to call ANet and tell them to stop charging your $15/mo or anything. You already got 3 months out of it, so if you want to continue that parallel, everything from here on out is gravy anyway. And just because you and others didn't like it doesn't mean that the downfall of ANet is near.

They struck gold with Prophecies. Just because they hit silver on round 2 or some other less precious metal doesn't mean they're going out of business now. Frankly, I don't think ANet will ever escape the shadow of Prophecies. It became like a first love to some people, and they'd have to make the second coming to appease that crowd and their fond memories of their first playthrough. The bar was lower for Prophecies. Nobody really knew what to expect. And we were all blown away. This raised the bar for Factions to attempt to exceed Prophecies so we would all be blown away again. When we weren't, people complained and they haven't stopped since. I doubt they ever will. After all, nothing will ever match that first high.

As for content, let's see what they added.

• New Region: Cantha - featuring an Asia themed world.
• New towns and areas
• 4 new mission types:

  Challenge Missions
  Elite Missions
  Competitive Missions
  Alliance Battles

• 13 new missions which have a three-tier ranking system rather than the two-tier (normal/bonus) system in the Prophecies Campaign.
• New quests (300+)
• New tutorial area Shing Jea Monastery
• Two new Factions that play into both PvE and PvP elements of the game:

  The Luxon
  The Kurzick

• 2 new professions:

  Assassin
  Ritualist

• New henchmen with the new professions
• More character slots
• 300 new Skills, incl. 90 new Elite Skills:

  75 skills for each new profession
  25 skills for each core profession

• New equipment:

  6 new armor types for each of the new and the old professions - again featuring an Asian theme
  New weapons and items
  New Green Items

  New creatures:
  100+ new monsters
  New NPCs
  New pets for Rangers

  Tigers, Crabs, Cranes, a Black Moa Bird, and Phoenixes.

• New PvP and GvG features:

  4 New Guild Halls
  Guild Hall Services
  Guild Alliances (max 10 guilds per alliance)
  New rating system
  New guild emblems

1. Factions does have UW/FoW locatd at Zin Ku Corridor. Also you should visit Tahnnakai Temple after you defeat Shiro because you will find some additional lore of Cantha.
2. Sorrow's Furnace & Tombs - Factions Challenge Missions.
3. Elite Missions.

Since you seem to like to PvE, explore and cap ELITEs, I would have to assume that you have both the Grand Master Cartographer titles, Both Protector Titles, and the Expert Skill Hunter.

why does everyone insist on pointing out the bad things and seem to stuff all the good things in the corner and ignore them. I know its easier to spot bad things but try and enjoy the game, i mean if all you do is like to bitch and complain about the bad things in the game why do you even play it because you arent even playing for fun anymore. You bought Guild Wars to have fun (unless you are being forced to play for 80 some cents and hour...) otherwise why would you bother buying a game that isnt making you have fun. If you like to point out bad things in a game go play Lineage 2 or something and quit complaining here. I know i am being quite the hipicrit because im complaining about people that complain about Guild Wars. If its stressing you out so much i think you shouldnt waste the energy and words to play anymore. Just Quit.

This is all I have to say about factions:

My Necromancer I made a week or so ago went through levels 3-20 in one day.


I did not get run anywhere, I just did the first two missions and all the quests I could find.

Sorry Anet, but this is just not fun... Prophecies was a progressive storyline that let players level slowly with tons of areas to explore in the process. Factions is junk. Power-leveling with 3000xp quests is not what we want. The PVE aspect of factions would have been much better if quests on Shing Jea were nerfed down to 500xp per or so and at least 7 missions were added. The "pre" area should have been designed much bigger if you are expect PVE player to keep buying your new chapters.

And by the way Sorrow's Furnace was added because an update was needed since there would be no new Chapter for that year. So of course, Prophecies would have a huge amount of content.

Also over the course of that year, many many improvements were made to GW that also carried to Factions. So when Factions came it, people were already spoiled that they expected Factions to be some revolutionary new beast with tons of content comparable to the first Chapter that already had a year to add content to it.

Some of you are just too focused on complaining to remember stuff like that.




Is it ANET's fault that you powergamed your way to level 20 in one day? Obviously, you did have fun or you wouldnt have played from level 3 to 20 in one day. If indeed you did do such a thing.

I am not some godly guildwars player. It is Anets fault that they set up a game where you can max out your characters levels easily in one day.


Most of the fun I initially had in prophecies was waiting to get my character to level 20... the first time I stepped foot into dragons lair was godly

@Chief

Followed your advice and went to the temple but found nothing new... am I missing something?

You can do it, doesnt take too long.

I mean...thats the point.

Reach lvl 20. FAST. No need to pay for runs. Max armor really quick. Lots of skills really quick.



Ive said it before. I think Factions was tailored to players to want to do things quickly. Those who get run and skip parts of the game. Heres everything you need to get started, all you need. Now enjoy the content.

That's why the PVE section of factions Is like 50% of Prophecies. The mainland of Cantha is about the size, content wise as Crystal desert and beyond in Campaign 1.

I feel content wise, Factions should have been marketed at around 30$, instead of the same price as it's older brother.

I agree with the above post in that factions was the kid brother of prophecies. No where near the full scale product as the original and should be priced accordingly. Why did it take anet so long to produce such a disappointing next chapter? I literally felt like it was a chore to complete the PvE in factions. The pve gameplay is so linear its insane.

It is funny all the people that are so quick to jump in and defend anet on the factions side as being great. Alliance battles... lame... pvp/pve mission that are unplayable due to bots and lack of players... lame. A dragon festival that involved people standing afk on a circle for hours.... lame. Anet needs to up its quality or suffer financially.

I can see a rpg or pve player having fun with a game when they are forced to pvp. To play something they don't like!

Anet from the start promise good rpg! Then they turn around and create factions

even the crpg term was changed. It was cooperative rpg! closer to the end of the year they change it to competive rpg!

Like i said before rpg player don't have to change. They just stop buying the product! You have eonough people leave you know the story.

Sorry, but my tyrian characters, all 4 lvl 20's, wouldn't have much of a challenge playing through 3/4ths of factions against enemies aimed at levels 8 through 18.

As for the size of factions? Just for clarification its more like 3/4ths the size of prophecies. and imo 3/4ths as good.

[QUOTE=bigwig]Sorry, but my tyrian characters, all 4 lvl 20's, wouldn't have much of a challenge playing through 3/4ths of factions against enemies aimed at levels 8 through 18.
[QUOTE]


If you read what I wrote, you would have seen that I suggested that they had made 7 extra missions or so before you leave shing jea island; More gameplay for before you enter the high level area. Thus, buffering the time a player goes from level 1 to 20. (So it can't be done easily in 1 day like I stated)

Your statement contradicts itself, because Tyrian characters skip Shing Jea island and go straight to Kaineng Center.

You'd be right, except the last one is Advanced Skill Hunter actually, that's where it stops for now.

For the Prophecies Explorer title, I had to explore out of the way places. For the Factions Explorer title, I merely hugged the walls in areas I had to visit anyway.

For the Prophecies Protector title, I was presented with extra content beyond the basic missions. For the Factions Protector title, I had to rush and grind.

1. I know you can enter the UW and FoW from Cantha. My point was, there's no new content of a similar nature in Factions. I don't count those areas as part of Factions. If I did, I'd feel even worse because I'd have to believe they'd have sold me the same content twice. I've settled for believing (quite rightly) that something is missing.
I know the ghosts tell different stories at the end of the game. I know Master Togo is there. Hardly qualifies as content equal to Prophecies endgame Titan Quests.
2. GF/SF alone offers more content and replayability than all the challenge missions put together. Tombs is roughly equivalent to an Elite mission, only easier.
3. You have me there. Now, if people could access those without begging or bribing...

Bah humbug. At any point in time, there were infinitely more people playing the areas between Lion's Arch and Droknar's Forge than there were people solliciting for runs at Beacon's Perch.

If what you say is true, they made a PvE game for people who don't like to PvE in the first place. That's kind of a self-defeating enterprise. And what do you know? There are droves of people who do love to play PvE who aren't happy with Factions. So I guess you're right, and the enterprise did indeed defeat itself.

That kind of comes with every Chapter being a stand-alone game in its own right, doesn't it? Factions as a stand-alone is a game with practically no character development/learnin stage.

Mmm, I doube posted. That's enough for now I guess.

I completly agree with you, I too love PvE and bought Phrophecies as well as Factions because of this. GW1 featured a really cool storyline and enough PvE but more areas/maps revealed once a month would have been really nice.

I find PvP extremely boring...its too repetitive. Factions did not have enough PvE obviously, and personally I'm growing tired of all this "ladder this" "ladder that" PvP crap. I want to see some prolonged storyline expansions, and enough of the PvP. It's BORING. I hope Nightfall will be mainly based on PvE, otherwise it will be the last one I buy.

The only thing that appeals to me about Factions is that the drops are unusual - I mean that they are different from the usual stuff you find in Prophecies, and to a degree Im curious to see what new stuff there is.

Last night I got a Celestial Staff. Absolutely no use to me at all, but its nice to have achieved getting a Celestial something.

Maybe its just me but I find most of Cantha dreary and miserable. The whole environment is like it there which probably fits with the theme, but doesnt fit with me. I prefer somewhere brighter to play in like Tyria.

Well, myself, i only got 1 char run, and that was to Citadel to get 15k armor. Ive never gotten a run to droks.

I feel, that some players want to:

1) Get max armor immediately.
2) Get skills they want immediately, so they can use the build they want.
3) THEN play through the game.

I feel that Factions resolved those wants. However, its true that the game feels very rushed because of this. It essentially gets you to the point where you can start having fun right away.

But...some people enjoy the grind, they like leveling up their characters and feel accomplishment there. I think this is the issue that is unresolved in Factions.

You cant cater to both player types at the same time, and thats whats wrong with Factions.

My monk did ZERO optional quests in Factions, i only play missions on weekends so i had maybe 1-2 missions a week. I reached lvl 20 at Tahnakai Temple and i only beat the game recently. I'm happy with the PvE in Factions. I never had problems with the 2 Party missions. The only problem i have is not having enough time to play PVE for myself and still keep helping my guildmates.

I'm closing this thread now, there have been enough flames and insults deleted.