Bad Business at Arena Net

Only if people voice their opinions and express their concerns.

People posting "anti" this, "anti" that and "close the thread" are obviously people who are either happy enough with the way things are atm, or are just posting out of the need to post anything at all. It is not constructive in the main - merely destructive to the threads topic.

We all hope Nightfall doesnt become Nightmare, and if as rumours have it there have been significant gameplay changes to it since Factions, then that must solely be down to the mass of people who have voiced about their upset - otherwise Anet would just assume we all love it the way it is and not do anything different.

*claps* Well Put. I would ALSO like to add that if you are happy the way things are then why not express that...

As much as that point of view is flawed because arenanet keeps nerfing and changing everything anyway, so they would be what I would call… pawns someone who just follows the flow of the game because it is just there and they “cant do anything about it”.

I don't feel like Factions has anything less than Prophercies. That's why I'm not here to ask for free stuff.

I don't see Factions as less in quality when comparing to Prophecies, the opposite may be even true.

Storage increase issue will make this thread get merged with other threads. And I thought you don't want that to happen, so please, don't raise this issue as an argument or what not.

I'm happy with 2 extra char slots because I want to bring all my chars to wherever I want. Anet didn't stole anything from me. I agreed to do it myself. Hell, you made it sound like I should complain when I buy a PC with soundcard and no speakers but some other options instead (and they stated clearly you won't get any speakers to begin with).

Please dont pull percentages and statistics out of your behind. Thank you.

maybe thats too harsh.

How about....

Speak for yourself. Voice your opinion. But dont act like you speak for everyone because you dont.

Some ppl will never understand that nerfing skills is essential for the future of gw.
If you want this lovely game to be dead in a few years, go on whining about your destroyed farmbuild. Just get over it, make a new build and go in again. This game is about skills remember....

Oh My GOD

They are doing it the wrong WAY!

How can you not see this...

You make a build they nerf a build,
You make a build they nerf a build,
You make a build they nerf a build.

That is not they way to make consumers want to play a game,

I am not saying skills don’t need to be nerfed on a whole, but How are you happy with things being run as they are, the whole dynamic of guild wars currently is ultimately pointless if when you come up with something fantastic, instead of being able to be happy with it and proud of yourself you have to be worried because the creator of the game will come and Destroy it because they don’t like it.

It is honestly remarkable that people try to argue this point. A lot of people feel like this a HELL of a lot infact.

It is only because it has such amazing potential that people get upset when they feel robbed by the people that gave us the game in the first place.

I respect that you may enjoy changing your builds, I can even understand the way things need to be nerfed I expect this in any online game.

But it is now just becoming Ridiculous... it is a running joke that ANET will nerf everything in humanity, and now people are getting P*ssed because it just aint funny anymore

Arenenet are making large mistakes, which are making a lot of there players unhappy. And if you think they are not making ANY mistakes regarding this then you are fooling yourself.

Because it must just be the streams of experienced players that are wrong… *sigh

People hate change for the most part this is true, but a lot of people feel things are changing to much and your losing the point of playing the game in the first place.

I don’t mean to be hostile at all. But it is remarkable that instead of thinking maybe he is correct and trying to find common ground people endlessly just say.

‘Don’t Moan Just Adapt…’

There is a line between changing things and completely altering them entirely and it feels more and more like ANET have not only crossed that line but they have got out there Rocket Launcher and blown it to sh*t.

If you dont agree thats fair... but at least come up with some kind of logical reason for why you dont. because i hear very little logical arguement FOR ANET making SO many changes...

Guild Wars is about skill, that s what ANET said... And when you put effort in for over a year only to have everything changed and you have to start over it is more than upsetting.

It seems like they even WANT you to use the Premade Builds, because when you make your own they NERF UM!. *sigh*

You make a build. Its a great build. Its a fun build to play.

Everyone copies it. Everyone plays that same build.

Nobody tries anything new because its the best build ever.

Gameplay is reduced to just playing 1 single build. People get bored. The build is no longer fun because its the only build people play. People who dont use that build get snubbed. Or maybe the build is too powerful.

They nerf that build slightly. And they buff other skills that arent so good.

Now your uber build is not so uber. But now theres other skills to play with.

Voila.

Nerfing and Buffing is all about keeping the game fresh and interesting.

With every nerf the PvE game dies a little more both in-game and in-heart.

"Its all about balancing" they say. So why dont they nerf the bosses and enemies? They dont because the balancing is only about PvP which ultimately is all Anet appear to care about.

sorry but that is just wrong that is not the way they do things
if you made your own build andkept it to yourself then it wouldn't get nerfed

this is what happens

Somone makes a build, they tell everyone about it, everyone copys that build, the only thing you see is the same builds, they nerf the build,

lather and repeat.

the aspect of you must be using this build or you "sux" put me off pvp entirly and now i only do pve.

if everyone kept there builds to themselves i think that the pvp world would see more diversity as people will have to experiment on there own, but to bad it will never happen.

Yes YES Finally...

I AGREE!

*takes breath* lol

Skill Nerfing you can get frustrated with but is needed, i do agree. Because there is only 8 Skill spaces you will have a lot A LOT of the same builds,

There are loads of reasons for this. but keeping people thinking i have no problem with. Because I have no problem with coming up with my own builds.

But it seems they go to far and utterly destroy the class in the case of Elementalists and Warriors for example.

There is a difference between tapping someone on the cheek and breaking their nose. And it seems to me ANET is not that aware of the difference.
(A little Extreme perhaps but you get the point.)

Thank you to all those that have participated in this discussion so far. Please remember that this thread discusses a certain topic. Accordingly, let's focus on said topic in a respectful and cordial manner please. Thank you.

I am told that there is a MORPG game about (which looks quite good) called Space Cowboy which some people I know on another forum play a bit of. There is an official forum where I understand that the mods close virtually every thread that sows dissent, criticises and even any that offers suggestions. There is seldom if any input or communique's from the dev's.

One thing I will give Anet credit for is that they do tend to provide information on a reasonably frequent basis - even if its stuff we say "ohhh noooo!!!" to. As I understand it they do also peruse the forums and take on board comments which they may or may not act upon - but at least they look!

Equally there are different levels of admining forums and although you will get the good and bad admins, I have yet to see any GW forum admin who acts like a one man thread eater.

Coming from a pvper's perspective:

If anet offered new classes and skills and weapons without all the content crap for like 15-20$, I'd buy those over the game. The Factions pve sucked, it was rushed and incomplete. I'm definitly waiting before I rush into nightfall, infact if nightfall sucks I'm out permanently.

This thread doesnt make sense, it's such a whining fest that it wouyld be better to close it. Arenanet for sure knows what they're doing but it's impossible to make everyone happy

The OP is wrong with the costs:
wow is more like 15$ and gw 6-8$ per month if you buy every chapter. I bought my Factions for ~36$ and that was a preorder with free shipping, so just look for better deals around.

I like prophecies more than factions and I agree that factions storyline is too short but thats not everything, there are still lots of things to do there, lots of repeatable content.

sorry four my bed english

Coming from pveer's perspective I would gladly pay $100 for nightfall without the PvP part. And I'm pre-ordering.
Taste is like a ass, split

maby theyre strategy is to do like this:

Ch1- BASE GAME

Ch 2- PVP>PVE

Ch 3-PVP<PVE

Ch 4-PVP>PVE

Ch 5- PVP<PVE

and so on......

I'm really starting to wonder what people like about Guild Wars at all if they think the "factions PvE sucked". I mean, I was playing it thinking to myself, yep... it's Guild Wars alright... having fun and killing stuff, completing quests and putting up with a poor and cliche storyline (heh, it's sooo bad, like Days of Our Lives with a worse script).

As a player of Guild Wars, not a share holder or a creator, I'm not much concerned with the "business" side of AreaNet/GuildWars team, I'll leave the money making to them.

The WoW vs Guild Wars debate is ongoing, anyone truely interested in the topic would do well to look into and research the business models of the two games and how they differ. It'll heavily enlighten you.

First of all, Kurt, it's good to see Guild Wars has stopped your drinking habits . Secondly, I can see your frustration as a Primary PvE player. I as well was very dissapointed in the PvE aspect of Factions. It took me only two days to finish that game and I wasn't even rushing.

My main complaint with it was the fact that it was a very small area, yet they made it very mazelike and the quests had you repeatedly clearing the same area over and over again with little gratification. Had the quests been more thought out and lore driven I wouldn't have felt it was pointless grinding.

I think it's good you call Anet on these mistakes but also don't worry too much because Arenanet seems like a company that learns from failure and will produce a better product. So guys, please don't flame him because he's stating his oppinion that happens to be negative. If arenanet weren't aware of how these people feel theres more likely of a chance they will continue to make the same mistakes. I'm being very optimistic about Nightfall because my gut instincts tell me it's going to have large replay value to the PvE audience.

I believe those of us who arent solely locked to any particular section of the game are better off then those who only want pve or only want pvp.

in short I enjoy the game for what it was made for. To be entertaining.

I hope so... but i think i'm gonna wait a few months after the release to be certain.

Only playing one apsect of the game and then complaining, really isn't fair though. I mean sure you could do one or the other, but that doesn't change the fact that both PvP and PvE make up Guild Wars. So while I admit the elite missions weren't exactly what I had hoped for, I still have great frun doing stuff like Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles with friends...

I suppose I could just as easily say Factions was lame because there was only one new class, and I think that's not enough. Well there was two but I only like playing melee characters so there should have been another new melee character for me to play.

You start excluding or cutting parts you don't like out, and of course the game will seem smaller with less features.

I do pvp occassionally when I feel like being called a noob. lol.
I do spend most of my time PvEing
This thread is a request for more content in future chapters.
bigger continents
better storyline
clever missions
bring mission bonuses back
create elite missions for that specific chapter so that after I finish it, I will have something to do instead of going back to FoW and UW.
and don't make the missions impossible to get to like in Factions.

I think my main complaint about Factions is that after I finished it, the endgame was PvP grinding. I spend all my time back in Tyria. And I have lots of company. So don't tell me that A-Net can't please everyone. The majority of PvE only players have similar feelings about Factions.

And if you wonder why Arena Net seems only interested in PvP think of this.
If you created an entire game. If you were there from the beginning. If you know all the secrets and aspects about the PvE portion of the game. How often are you gonna waste your time running around landscapes that you created. The real challenges for developers that play Guildwars would be in PvP. Hell, the can just program gold into their accounts if they want.

PvE is just a neccessity to them. They make it to please us. But they seem to be doing a bare minimum. Just take a second and place yourself in the shoes of a developer. With your Godlike powers you probably wouldn't get quite the thrill out of killing your doppleganger as the rest of us do.

Anet already said that Factions was more PvP based so they're making Nightfall more PvE based...

He must be trying to up his post count...lol. 4 times the exact message in same thread?

To the OP, I hope Nightfall is more to your liking. Based on the limited info we have at this point, it seems PvE will have more of a focus this time around.

Yeah the original bonuses were much better, rather than rushing through a mission, It makes it hard for poeple like me who like to take my time and explore plus waiting for regen

Agree 176% on that!

Agree 188.5% on that too, although I havent finished Factions yet & I got the CE on pre-order. Why? Well because I just got bored with it. I like to run about going into towns as I like and not finding locked gates. Some of my happiest moments in Prophecies were just going "walkabout" and seeing what was around. Thats how I found Stingray Strand from L.A before going into the jungle.

Sadly I have to agree again. I can see the reason for PvP ultimately from a business stand point and Anet are right in feeling this is the backbone of the game, but equally without PvE & PvE players GW would be a shadow of its current form.

Ok...that was a line that can really make most of the poeple ignore your post. Althou I agree at some points (if you see the big picture) this is certanly not the way of posting it.

Thing is that if half of the player base would leave because they are not satisfied about the PvE content (and I dont expect that to happen), the ones who stay will be a very dedicated group of players, big enough to continue the current system for many, many years. Anet can affort it to plot their own way. I'm always on the side of the customers, that's why I sometimes open the box to let out the ghosts for some sharp comments (nothing personal though, Gaile and others ) but the actual chance it will make much difference is very small. Not as long as PvE is connected with the PvP balancing system. And that wont change I'm afraid.

i just hope Nightfall will be better in the PvE content but that hope is think.

I think Anet knows that if they abandon the PvE or do not pay a lot of attention to it, they will lose lots of customers.
Everyone I know just plays PvE and although we play PvP sometimes we do not really have an interest in that much.

I think faction has enough content for an expansion and I hope they keep their promiss of huge content for Nightfall.

I'd have to agree. I also liked the original bonuses better. Doing/Finishing them makes you feel you actually accomplished something; whereas in Factions, rushing through a mission would get you the bonus, kinda counter-intuitive, methinks...

Nobody says you have to rush, you could always come back later to get the different levels.

Thats not the point.I don't want to have to do some silly time trial BS for most of the Factions mssions.(Well,excluding Gyala and the Kurzick mission where you have to protect singers.They make you have to accomplish something to get such an award.)

Players already try to rush the game. Why cant the game accomdate that attitude?

Anyone here get any characters run?
Anyone here skip large portions of the prophecies map?

Anet's just redesigning the game to how players play.

Considering how many people skip huge chunks of the map in prophecies, i think Anet felt it would be a waste of their time and our time to make super large maps if so few people will actually enjoy it.

So they made compact maps, fast paced missions, less travel.

Thats how i see it.

this thread is pretty pointless.

wow is boring. the endgame means nothing. talk about grind- guild wars has less grind than any game ive played... factions REALLY has no grind- you can get lvl 20 in about 8 hours.

Talking about PvE then- you want more, but more is grinding. GW 1 is more focused on PvE, whereas Factions is geared toward PvP. Nightfall will be more of a solid PvE, with the features its advertising-

To people who are Griefers, Curious, New, or Misinformed:


1. If you want PvE, then get GW1 (and/or) GW3

2. If you want PvP, get GW2

3. GW series is focused more on fast paced combat, whichever side you choose (pvp/pve). If you want to parade around on a rideable Tiger, or want to chop wood for 6 hours a day, then get an MMO like WoW or DDO. Id actually suggest DDO, since its graphics are far superior.

4. If you dont like guild wars- we true fans really dont care!!! If you guys are so lame as to complain on an internet forum, or create problems in guilds - WE DONT NEED YOU. Get over your video game misconceptions and either play or dont.

5. The only people you complainers/dissers are able to generalize or represent, is other complainers/dissers. Like I said, us true fans (the majority dont come to forums) recognize the amount of interaction ANet and the Community have, and we enjoy it. ANet is a pioneer.

6. There will never be elves- this isnt another Cookie Cutter RPG World.

7. People like ME, who have been playing since the GW Beta Test... have seen all the changes and upgrades. People just coming in to the game within the past few months have NO IDEA so please just stop your whining or go away.

You have it the wrong way around. The time it takes to reach level 20 has no bearing at all on wether or not you're grinding. What matters is what you're doing to get there.

Less PvE content equals more grind, because if you want to keep playing PvE, you'll have to replay content you already played so much sooner. Playing the same content equals repeating the same thing equals grind. As long as there's new content to explore, you're still doing new stuff, and you're not grinding. So, less content = more grind. Unless you want to discard the game after a couple of weeks. (And speaking for myself, a couple weeks is stretching it.)

Factions has an added grind-factor in the form of the way quests are implemented. To do all Kaineng quests you have to retrace your way across boring slum-scapes again and again, killing the same mobs again and again. And you really need to do quite a lot of those quests if you started a Canthan character, because you need the skillpoints. Remember the 3 Iron Horse Mine quests in Prophecies. Nobody I've ever talked to likes those. Kaineng City is like that, multiplied by a large factor.

In conclusion: Less content = more grind (or quitting the PvE game entirely). Certainly not less grind like you're claiming.

1. Gee, we already got GW2, that's why this thread exists.

2. People keep claiming that. I don't see it. Prophecies introduced more and better PvP than Factions. Factions just adds the falsely advertized Arena Battles, the utterly failed Competitive Missions and a handful of maps. If I'd bought Factions for the PvP, I'd feel more cheated than having bought it for the PvE.

3. I don't know why you're dragging this into the discussion. No one here wants that kind of boring nonsense in GW. We just want each chapter to offer a decent amount of PvE content. Like Prophecies did.

4. People are complaining because the DO like GW. If they didn't, they wouldn't have bought Factions. The sad truth is, to many people, Factions was a disappointing chapter. Just because they like GW so much, the obviously more sparse PvE content in Factions is such a huge issue with them. Call them whiners if that makes you feel better. Oh, and we don't need you either.

5. Oh, you true fans are so fine and dandy. That doesn't take anything away from the fact that Factions is severely lacking in PvE content.

6. I certainly hope not.

7. You're the man. Unfortunately, you make some piss-poor arguments. "I've been here longer so I know best". Come on now... we're not in kindergarten.

I distinctly remember that several developers left Blizzard for ArenaNet. This was published in a magazine or online news service.

NCSoft (ArenaNet’s parent company) has been conducting special events with their other MMORPG games and I would not say that they are “Starting small events” since they have been conducting similar practices in other games since 1998.

I’m not sure where you established these figures. WoW has three payment options: $15 monthly, $14 for a 3-month plan, and $13 for a 6-month plan.

For arguments sake, let’s use the following factors for both games and the lowest WoW subscription fee:

Game Time Frame:

19-months (Guild Wars released April 2005 / WoW released November 2004 … The time frame we will use is from April 2005 to October 2006)

Cost Averages (Regular Edition):

Guild Wars - Prophecies $50 + Factions $50 + Nightfall $50: = $150 (19 Month Avg. = $7.89)

WoW - $40 game + $247 (19 months * $13 subscription) = $287 (19 Month Avg. = $15.11)

NOTE: Since I went 19 months, I will assume that most WoW players will want to purchase the Burning Crusade Expansion Pack in October 2006, which is $40)
Then

WoW – Game $40 + $247 (19 months * $13 subscription) + Expansion Pack $40 = $327 (19 Month Avg. = $18.17)

If I purchased three Guild Wars Collector Editions, the price would still be less than WoW (with or without the WoW expansion)

After reading some of the posts here I must confess, I think we are.

Let us wait and see what Nightfall brings, it will be make or break as far as PvE is concerned.
And so far it looks good. IMOP

Anyone else want to whine about the "lack of content" even after reading Chief's figures?

If you want more content you have to pay for it. That's how life is. If you want something usually you have to pay for it.

Oh I would gladly pay a monthly fee it that's what it takes to make this game a real MORPG with a level cap on 200 and tons of great items to find!
And no, don't come up with WoW, its the GW game environment I like to play this way, not the WC world...