i think Anet may have dug themselves into a hole with this mysticism deal on the dervish. The problem i see is that the Negative effects of the skills that the dervish uses is the loss of enchantments.. but when you see that the loss of enchantments in turn capitalizes on the mysticism.. there is absolutely nothing negative about any of the skills the dervish uses. It seems like a pretty cheap and crappy circle -.-
many ppl suggested changing dervish enchants to some other type of thing so cop doesnt affect it, but i think that wouldnt work cuz that would require changing the whole backbone of the game.. remember the basic types of skills? (enchants, hexes, conditions, etc etc that came inside the little manual) Adding a new type of thing like that would not make sense cuz this is a [[[chapter]]] of guildwars.. not a whole new game, so its just meant to add something but not to the point that ppl with the original game play at a disadvantage. which seems a little unrealistic at this point anyways
but anyway.. it seems like a simple solution to what had been going on in PvP that weekend is to change the damage type dealt by Balthazars Rage and Holy Heart of flame to something like Fire damage. An aftercast similar to elementalists DEFINITELY needs to be implemented, and i think that mysticism needs to be toned down a bit. It seems like the mysticism attribute is the only unique attribute that gives such huge benefits to the player. please name another class's unique attribute thats just as powerful.. I'd love to hear one.. so yeah i think that has to be considered cuz it seems that Mysticism has to give a benefit equal to the level of all the other class benefits
[MERGED] Balancing Dervish Profession
BooNer
Hella Good
E-denial > Dervishes
Interrupts/Choking Gas > Dervishes
Certain hexes as well
My point: Lets keep things reasonable, not radical.
Interrupts/Choking Gas > Dervishes
Certain hexes as well
My point: Lets keep things reasonable, not radical.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
E-denial > Dervishes
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The Last Preacher
Well no matter what. Big changes will be made to nerf some builds and create new ones. The one big fear is by changing them too much it could tip the balance too much.
Hella Good
That's absurd. I heard the same claims about Assassins once. The Criticals + Zeal bs. Sure Mysticism is great nrg management. Enough to outperform e-denial? No way. Have you used e-denial versus Dervishes? If so, what kinda? I had very good results running my classic Surge e-denial with Shackwrack. Wroked like a charm. I doubt I'm the only one who had success with this.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
I had very good results running my classic Surge e-denial with Shackwrack. Wroked like a charm. I doubt I'm the only one who had success with this.
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The difference now, from what was said about assassins, is that there were not 4 assassin groups with a 76 winning streak. Nor were there 7 assassin 1 monk Guild groups winning a gvg battle in under 5 mins. When 7 D/mo's played by a rank 800 can roll a balanced team played by a rank 100 team, I don't think the answer is energy denial.
Saider maul
the mysticism is a good idea especially being a front line melee class that has 70 armour . read my previous post i did the math. with those suggestions it would limit their energy and hp gain to no more then 3/4 on both and the added skill recharges combined with single target enchantment spikes balances the caster part of a dervish.
I am hoping for a second testing with some reduction to mysticism and added skill recharges.
I am hoping for a second testing with some reduction to mysticism and added skill recharges.
twicky_kid
The D/Mo abused 1 skill: Cop
Change that to not be usable by dervishs and the problem is solved. I ran a Dervish in a balanced group during the event. It did not feel overpowered at all. I could at add a lot of pressure and cut off choke points by myself (no one wants to be close to a dervish). Really I couldn't kill anything alone. They really do shine when you assualt the base though. Those aoe enchantments and sythe make it a death trap.
Change CoP to this:
5e 1/4 10 recharge (Divine Favor)
Skill. Lose 1...8 enchantments. For each enchantment lose you gain 6....80hp and lose 1 hex and condition.
Without the lose all enchantments this skill is worthless to a Dervish and makes it still usable by monks.
Change that to not be usable by dervishs and the problem is solved. I ran a Dervish in a balanced group during the event. It did not feel overpowered at all. I could at add a lot of pressure and cut off choke points by myself (no one wants to be close to a dervish). Really I couldn't kill anything alone. They really do shine when you assualt the base though. Those aoe enchantments and sythe make it a death trap.
Change CoP to this:
5e 1/4 10 recharge (Divine Favor)
Skill. Lose 1...8 enchantments. For each enchantment lose you gain 6....80hp and lose 1 hex and condition.
Without the lose all enchantments this skill is worthless to a Dervish and makes it still usable by monks.
Vermilion Okeanos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hella Good
E-denial > Dervishes
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The dervish not only not run of energy, he continue what he/she was doing, casting away.
Phades
Im fairly convinced at this point Hella good is only playing devil's advocate at this point. Edenail and hex based strategies fell on their face against that D/mo build and that wont change even if CoP is changed. The global snare muddy terrain did far more to keep them in check and allowed for pre-kiting and isolation tactics that actually were effective. Barring that, the dervish was more mobile than everything else and had a potent pressure style damage that was delivered in spikey packets, built on top of a good energy engine and passive healing. The hex and condition removal was really the icing on the cake.
I dont have a problem with the dervish being strong, but having something nearly unstopable is just not right.
I dont have a problem with the dervish being strong, but having something nearly unstopable is just not right.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phades
Edenail and hex based strategies fell on their face against that D/mo build and that wont change even if CoP is changed.
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Cripple and other conditions are going to be the best counter. Kiting works very well. You can easily get out of nearby range by the time that 3/4 cast aoe enchantment goes off. I know I missed plenty of times. Soon as people saw me stop chasing my target they scattered like flies.
Silver_Fang
To beat a Dervish, dont clutter, kite them, interupt them and degen them, since they wil be casting most of the time, you could interupt 1 or 2.
D/Mo is a special case, but if you cant kill it, cripple it and reapplisd the cipple effect if they removed it. The ranger spirits(Nature's Renewal, Quickening Zephyr, Muddy Terrain) can render a D/Mo, just leave it alone and it is harmless.
D/Mo is a special case, but if you cant kill it, cripple it and reapplisd the cipple effect if they removed it. The ranger spirits(Nature's Renewal, Quickening Zephyr, Muddy Terrain) can render a D/Mo, just leave it alone and it is harmless.
Phades
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Without CoP they only have 1 skill that can remove hexes. They also have nothing that can remove conditions. Only Mel's Avatar could prevent them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Cripple and other conditions are going to be the best counter. Kiting works very well. You can easily get out of nearby range by the time that 3/4 cast aoe enchantment goes off.
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Even with a change to Cop, there are still alot of underlying perks that have to be focused upon. Many of them are not as overpowered as the CoP synergy though.
Roupe
Best counters against a Dervish would be either Well of the Profane or Nature's Renewal. And that would only annoy them.
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Remove the inherrant splash/aoe effect on the scythe, The Dervish Profession should like all the other proffesions have to use skills if they want to hit multiple foes. As it is now the scythe gives them an extra slot in the skill bar (the slot other damage dealing proffesion reserve for aoe attacks).
Make Contemplate Purity disable the enchantments destruction/end effects. the enchantment is sacrificed not ended/destroyed. using magic the gathering logic. Simply enchantments lost due to Contemplate Purity are just removed without any effects from the enchantments themselfs
Let the dervishers have crappy skills and defence against Hexes. As it stands now they seem the best at removing anything really.
And suddenly they are a bit more balanced.
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Remove the inherrant splash/aoe effect on the scythe, The Dervish Profession should like all the other proffesions have to use skills if they want to hit multiple foes. As it is now the scythe gives them an extra slot in the skill bar (the slot other damage dealing proffesion reserve for aoe attacks).
Make Contemplate Purity disable the enchantments destruction/end effects. the enchantment is sacrificed not ended/destroyed. using magic the gathering logic. Simply enchantments lost due to Contemplate Purity are just removed without any effects from the enchantments themselfs
Let the dervishers have crappy skills and defence against Hexes. As it stands now they seem the best at removing anything really.
And suddenly they are a bit more balanced.
Sciros Darkblade
Dervishes definitely need a lot of tuning, and I'm sure they'll get it. As for the "extra slot" argument directly above my post, I am not sure if it's the best way to think about it because to be fair any profession can go x/Dervish and wield the Scythe, getting its bonus "splash" damage. Warrior's Endurance ftw
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Roupe
Let the dervishers have crappy skills and defence against Hexes. As it stands now they seem the best at removing anything really.
And suddenly they are a bit more balanced. |
Well of profane will completely decimate a dervish.
easyg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
They can only remove hexes. They have no skill within their own class to remove conditions. Even their hex removal has to lose an enchantment to work.
Well of profane will completely decimate a dervish. |
But seriously, you'll be doing your enemies a favor by wasting a skill slot of Well of the Profane.
As for hex removal...wow, you got to be kidding. Dervishes have the absolute best hex removal in the game. There's nothing else even close to it. It's called Avatar of Dwayna:
Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, whenever you use a skill, you gain 5...41 Health and lose one Hex. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
This form will absolutely destroy any hex heavy necro or mesmer build. When he gets in your face, you are absolutely dead. For example:
N/Me vs. D/Mo
(1) N/Me hexes dervish. Lets be kind and say you manage to fire off empathy + ss.
(2) Dervish walks up to you and unloads with some PBAOE. Which one hardly matters.
What matters is this: the derv has ripped away 1/5th of your health, passively regained about 94 health and 7 energy, removed a hex, and probably put a condition on you, all for maybe 5-10 energy spent.
Your N/Me will be dead in seconds.
Nightwish
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Originally Posted by easyg
I guess so, if you can make a corpse appear whenever and wherever you want. And as long as you manage to totally immobilize the dervish first so that he can't, like, move out of the Well's area of effect.
But seriously, you'll be doing your enemies a favor by wasting a skill slot of Well of the Profane. As for hex removal...wow, you got to be kidding. Dervishes have the absolute best hex removal in the game. There's nothing else even close to it. It's called Avatar of Dwayna: Elite Form. For 1...48 seconds, whenever you use a skill, you gain 5...41 Health and lose one Hex. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. This form will absolutely destroy any hex heavy necro or mesmer build. When he gets in your face, you are absolutely dead. For example: N/Me vs. D/Mo (1) N/Me hexes dervish. Lets be kind and say you manage to fire off empathy + ss. (2) Dervish walks up to you and unloads with some PBAOE. Which one hardly matters. What matters is this: the derv has ripped away 1/5th of your health, passively regained about 94 health and 7 energy, removed a hex, and probably put a condition on you, all for maybe 5-10 energy spent. Your N/Me will be dead in seconds. |
The form only active less than half the time. Its not like its giving the dervish hex immunity 24/7. So your hex may not be so effective against a dervish with Dwayna's avatar, but conditions will. A single dervish cannot bring both Dwayna+Melandru forms, can they?
If you are referring to D/Mos with CoP, then the problem is no longer solely due to the dervish class.
In short, what I would like to point out is players now need to decide whether they want to counter warriors or dervishes. They cannot expect their anti melee skills to work equally good against both classes.
easyg
As a dervish, I'll take my chances against conditions cause really they don't do damage fast enough to be immediately lethal.
Disease + Poison is only -8. Suppose you get bleeding and fire on me too...whatever. That's every degenerating condition in the game for a grand total of -18. That will kill most professions pretty quickly, granted.
But the dervish isn't most professions. Even if I don't carry CoP, I can heal that up very easily by alternating offense enchants and signet of piety. Yeah, and keep my energy bar totally full at the same time. That's the real kicker. But if you look at my post again, you'll see that I was talking about the D/Mo and I assume every halfway clever one will have CoP. But again, I really don't need it except when I am subject to massive focus fire.
As for Well of the Profane, enuf has been said about this already. I hope you carry a bunch of spare corpses around in your pocket, cause in a real PvP the only corpse likely to be around will be yours if that's your strategy for countering my dervish skillset. No offense, but I'm just stating the reality.
Regarding hex countering: my point isn't that the derv is 24/7 immune to hexes. My point is that compared with every other profession, the dervish is way off the charts when it comes to countering hexes. How many other professions get free hex removal for 48 seconds every time they attack or heal or do anything? Can your monk do that? Can your necro?
Personally, I have already stated point blank that I intend to exploit the dervish shamelessly as both a primary and secondary class. This hasn't even been discussed much yet, but a D/Mo is going to be an absolutely incredible farmer, and unlike a 55 Mo/W he isn't going to be hampered by either enchantment stripping or degenerating hexes. If nothing else, I suspect farmers will get the D/Mo nerfed even if the pvp imbalance doesn't.
Disease + Poison is only -8. Suppose you get bleeding and fire on me too...whatever. That's every degenerating condition in the game for a grand total of -18. That will kill most professions pretty quickly, granted.
But the dervish isn't most professions. Even if I don't carry CoP, I can heal that up very easily by alternating offense enchants and signet of piety. Yeah, and keep my energy bar totally full at the same time. That's the real kicker. But if you look at my post again, you'll see that I was talking about the D/Mo and I assume every halfway clever one will have CoP. But again, I really don't need it except when I am subject to massive focus fire.
As for Well of the Profane, enuf has been said about this already. I hope you carry a bunch of spare corpses around in your pocket, cause in a real PvP the only corpse likely to be around will be yours if that's your strategy for countering my dervish skillset. No offense, but I'm just stating the reality.
Regarding hex countering: my point isn't that the derv is 24/7 immune to hexes. My point is that compared with every other profession, the dervish is way off the charts when it comes to countering hexes. How many other professions get free hex removal for 48 seconds every time they attack or heal or do anything? Can your monk do that? Can your necro?
Personally, I have already stated point blank that I intend to exploit the dervish shamelessly as both a primary and secondary class. This hasn't even been discussed much yet, but a D/Mo is going to be an absolutely incredible farmer, and unlike a 55 Mo/W he isn't going to be hampered by either enchantment stripping or degenerating hexes. If nothing else, I suspect farmers will get the D/Mo nerfed even if the pvp imbalance doesn't.
Spura
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
They can only remove hexes. They have no skill within their own class to remove conditions.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Even their hex removal has to lose an enchantment to work.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Well of profane will completely decimate a dervish.
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Silver_Fang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spura
You speak like crippling then will somehow kill them or kill their damage. I don't recall cripple making warriors useless. If they can't remove conditions, they'll just have a character with draw conditions on their team. Like warriors do now.
Why removing enchantments doesn't hurt dervish at all has been explained here 100 times. Don't play dumb. Why well of profane is no counter has also been explained 100 times here. Don't play dumb. |
Avartar is got a average casting time that can be interupt with a 5 sec recharge, ranger can easily interupt the avatar, and if he unload the form sucessfully, its only 40-50 sec and the next 70-80 sec is disabled.
Most of the counter skill can be brought from a Ranger, savage shot on Avatar(not spell, ranger cant do that good), muddy terrain, natural renewal, quicken spirit. and since they a PBAoE, why would you go up to a PBAoE and tank? i dont think you tank a elementalist with 3-5 PBAoE unloading, do you?
As some people mentioned on another thread, you dont fight/treat them as a warrior, you have to treat them as a caster/warrior combine. 2 roles in 1 class seems great, but wait, the disadvantage of both roles in 1 class as well.
Bigger Redd
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zhou Feng
Heres the problem. A class who can cast AoE damage, remove all enchants and cause side effects, heal itself and manage energy all at the same time. No class has ever had this advantage! Remove enchants? Why should they care if you do! That's what Dervs are all about. Mysticism should give health per rank and a fixed amount of energy dependant on rank like 1-5 instead of the actual form or health and energy up to a limit of popped enchants (for every 1-4 removed enchants you gain X health and Y energy)
Their enchants should have longer recharge or deal less damage. |
I completely agree. I've attached the skill descriptions of 4 of the skills that are just too powerful (to me IMO).
My suggestion is either halve the damage, or have the recharge the same amount of time the spell good for (30 secs).
No other spells of any other profession do 40 damage with a 0 in the attribute.
kazz
I think their biggest problem is mysticism. it isn't right that they can spam reversals on themselves and actually gain energy by doing it. Even a dervish with no 2nd class can alternate AoE enchants and signet of piety, gaining nearly 200 health and dealing 100 damage every couple seconds, while applying conditions to anything nearby. With mysticism, they can keep this up indefinitely from all the extra energy. I think they should lower the energy gain from mysticism, possibly to how the crit strikes work. 1 energy at 3+, 2 energy at 8+, and 3 energy at 13+. This is probably a bit too heavy of a nerf, somewhere between this and the current setup would work well.
twicky_kid
We ran well of profane during the weekend. We ran into many D/MO teams and guess what we didn't lose a single one. 1 person or pet goes down put up the well now camp inside the well. They can only do dmg if they are near you and can't cast inside the Well. GG. I don't have to play dumb because I know by PLAYING the counter it works. A thumpers pet with DP gives me a reusable corpse.
Avatar of dwayna and grenth both trigger off of attack skills. The dervish attack skills are less than weak. They only affect 1 target, cost lots of energy, and usually make you lose an enchantment. Recasting an enchantment just to use a attack skill is a joke. If your target was kiting you might as well change targets because you won't be catching back up. Dwayna and Grenth are very strong when you are using a non sythe weapon. I expect them to change that to sythe attack skills only for balance.
As long as balth has +40 armor and 33% run speed the other avatars will be collecting dust.
Avatar of dwayna and grenth both trigger off of attack skills. The dervish attack skills are less than weak. They only affect 1 target, cost lots of energy, and usually make you lose an enchantment. Recasting an enchantment just to use a attack skill is a joke. If your target was kiting you might as well change targets because you won't be catching back up. Dwayna and Grenth are very strong when you are using a non sythe weapon. I expect them to change that to sythe attack skills only for balance.
As long as balth has +40 armor and 33% run speed the other avatars will be collecting dust.
Divineshadows
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phades
The global snare muddy terrain did far more to keep them in check and allowed for pre-kiting and isolation tactics that actually were effective.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roupe
Make Contemplate Purity disable the enchantments destruction/end effects. the enchantment is sacrificed not ended/destroyed. using magic the gathering logic. Simply enchantments lost due to Contemplate Purity are just removed without any effects from the enchantments themselfs
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
They can only remove hexes. They have no skill within their own class to remove conditions. Even their hex removal has to lose an enchantment to work.
Well of profane will completely decimate a dervish. |
twicky_kid
I used profane and didn't lose a single game to a D/Mo team. I know it works because I've used it. You can choose to ignore that or not but I'll be sticking with what I know works.
Silver_Fang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Divineshadows
How could any spirit such as muddy terrain or nature's renewal be considered a counter to the D/Mo? They can locate and nuke those spirits just as easily and have the armor (110), speed, and health to the backline to freely do so.
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They lose all energy to cast 2 enchantment unsucessfully due to interuption, they are now good as dead. even if they get 1 enchant CoP off, you can interupt it the next time.
New Build is always powerful, for no more than few weeks, then, every kind of counter will appear, the PvP event is too short, people dont have time to think of countering the class and whining on overpower and scream nerf.
Divineshadows
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I used profane and didn't lose a single game to a D/Mo team. I know it works because I've used it. You can choose to ignore that or not but I'll be sticking with what I know works.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
In order to get to the spirit, they have to run to it, which muddy terrain prevent it by using it at backline. Nature renewal to make them cast longer so people can interupt it, and quicken spirit make them recharge faster but with higher cost, they cantspam enchantment. if you got those spirit up, you are a ranger and you can actually kite it, since muddy terrain help alot. Both you and enemy are slow down, so what, they have to stop to cast enchantment for 1.5 sec. you dont, you can interupt it, and with distracting shot and savage shot, you can properly kill a D/Mo, the counter is there, its up to to bring it or not. you may bring the spirit to make arrow flies faster for better interuption.
They lose all energy to cast 2 enchantment unsucessfully due to interuption, they are now good as dead. even if they get 1 enchant CoP off, you can interupt it the next time. New Build is always powerful, for no more than few weeks, then, every kind of counter will appear, the PvP event is too short, people dont have time to think of countering the class and whining on overpower and scream nerf. |
One interrupter is not going to shutdown 6 D/Mo and prevent those spirits from getting shot down fast. If you have 4 or 5 skilled interrupt rangers on your team of 8, then you can but again you have completely gimped yourself against every other type of team you face and tied your mobility to non-moving spirits with long recharges (25 seconds at best with oath shot). Nor can you just toss NR, muddy terrain, or QZ into any build and say go. QZ+NR is really limiting on the type of monk builds you can run.
Silver_Fang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Divineshadows
Just because counters exist does not mean you can actually make use of them when you only have room for 64 skills. Remember in ladder play you have to be prepared for whatever you might face. Building specifically to beat a team of 6 D/Mo and only that type of team and gimping yourself against everything else you might face in ladder play is a testament to just how overpowered that sick build is.
One interrupter is not going to shutdown 6 D/Mo and prevent those spirits from getting shot down fast. If you have 4 or 5 skilled interrupt rangers on your team of 8, then you can but again you have completely gimped yourself against every other type of team you face and tied your mobility to non-moving spirits with long recharges (25 seconds at best with oath shot). Nor can you just toss NR, muddy terrain, or QZ into any build and say go. QZ+NR is really limiting on the type of monk builds you can run. |
Divineshadows
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
1 interupter is not going to interupt all, but ranger isnt the only 1 can interupt. Warrior can interupt, lots of class have interupt skill. Mesmer can use shutdown skills, ranger interupt, warrior can interupt, assasin can deal spike damage, elementalist can KD, Rt can protect from spike and remove condition, monk do the usual job. Its like swapping 1 nuke skill for a interuption skill for each class, ranger need to bring spirit. Even trapping can kill them fast. You dont kill them all, you kill them 1 by 1 while some interupting the orther or cripple them, without enchantment, they cant strip condition.
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A well executed balanced build (as The Last Pride displayed playing against Spearmen) can beat a sloppy team of players who lack basic understanding of GvG principles with a lot of button mashing D/Mo's. Did you observe the match? If not, then suffice it to say that the [EvIL] players had to kite a lot more than they would have to under normal circumstances and had to work very hard to get that win against what was a rank 500 team a couple days before. They basically spent much of their time running (because the D/Mo build has so much more pressure than theirs did) and picked their key points in time when a D/Mo was not in the Balthazar's form to spike down players on the Spearmen.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
Avartar is got a average casting time that can be interupt with a 5 sec recharge, ranger can easily interupt the avatar, and if he unload the form sucessfully, its only 40-50 sec and the next 70-80 sec is disabled.
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Saider maul
mind you the dervish is a front line melee class with 70 armor, they need the healing ability. They do not get adrenilin so they req added energy as well. the aoe effect of the scythe is fine sense they have few extremly high scythe spikes attack, the speed of a hammer and such a wide and unstable dmg range on the scythe ( 9-41 ) your best attack can range 20-30 dmg without a critical hit.
the problem lays in mysticism. make the healing 2 points per attribute instead of 3 and 1energy per 3 attribute instead or 2. Also make it pay out both hp and energy only on enchantment you cast on yourself.
one idea inspired by necros update with spirit death is make mysticism pay out only half energy and no hp when enchantments cast on you by an ally end. This will also stop a monks healing from being a battery to a dervish.
or make mysticism pay out only half for any non dervish enchantment.
the aoe effect of the enchantments could use about a 3/4 reduction from aoe to single target.
make earth and mysticism enchantments single target. I feel wind enchantments should be aoe for the fact that each elemental class has a characteristic, wind is all around us. Would be a nice addition as an elemental magic type.
I agree the D/MO enchantment spiker was insane . The scythe build are fairly balanced and what lil bit of power they do have will be reduced with a change to mysticism.
However i must honestly say work on building anti's to a dervish.
stop crying for nerfs... do you want what happened to the assassin?
I also see very little on the paragons. they will be nearly as powerful once people start working on exploiting loopholes in their abilities.
The D/MO was so powerful I dont think even 1/3 the attention was givin to the paragon to finding glitches in their combined abilities.
Find a way to fix the D/MO build and not ruin mysticism or the scythe builds.
the problem lays in mysticism. make the healing 2 points per attribute instead of 3 and 1energy per 3 attribute instead or 2. Also make it pay out both hp and energy only on enchantment you cast on yourself.
one idea inspired by necros update with spirit death is make mysticism pay out only half energy and no hp when enchantments cast on you by an ally end. This will also stop a monks healing from being a battery to a dervish.
or make mysticism pay out only half for any non dervish enchantment.
the aoe effect of the enchantments could use about a 3/4 reduction from aoe to single target.
make earth and mysticism enchantments single target. I feel wind enchantments should be aoe for the fact that each elemental class has a characteristic, wind is all around us. Would be a nice addition as an elemental magic type.
I agree the D/MO enchantment spiker was insane . The scythe build are fairly balanced and what lil bit of power they do have will be reduced with a change to mysticism.
However i must honestly say work on building anti's to a dervish.
stop crying for nerfs... do you want what happened to the assassin?
I also see very little on the paragons. they will be nearly as powerful once people start working on exploiting loopholes in their abilities.
The D/MO was so powerful I dont think even 1/3 the attention was givin to the paragon to finding glitches in their combined abilities.
Find a way to fix the D/MO build and not ruin mysticism or the scythe builds.
Divineshadows
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saider maul
However i must honestly say work on building anti's to a dervish.
stop crying for nerfs... do you want what happened to the assassin? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saider maul
I also see very little on the paragons. they will be nearly as powerful once people start working on exploiting loopholes in their abilities.
The D/MO was so powerful I dont think even 1/3 the attention was givin to the paragon to finding glitches in their combined abilities. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saider maul
Find a way to fix the D/MO build and not ruin mysticism or the scythe builds.
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Phades
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Originally Posted by Divineshadows
How could any spirit such as muddy terrain or nature's renewal be considered a counter to the D/Mo? They can locate and nuke those spirits just as easily and have the armor (110), speed, and health to the backline to freely do so.
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Also, if they are wasting people chasing down a far backline spirit planter while their form timers run down and lower the overal pressure of the build its better for the rest of the team. Should they send 1 person, its not that difficult to isolate and kill the individual as well.
Glasswalker
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Originally Posted by Divineshadows
The next person that suggests altering CoP because of the introduction of the dervish should be pressured with sharp pointy objects... The balance on CoP was fine prior to the introduction of the dervish, which suggests that the dervish is the problem and not CoP.
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On the other hand, I played as a Dervish, and as soon as I could view thier skill lists, I found a few skills I liked better. I don't think a 'nerf' of CoP will hurt the Dervish one whit.
I'm staying carefully out of this debate because 1) I trust in ANet to change things ever so slightly so that they aren't entirely broken. 2) I prefer to come up with new builds that absolutely kill them instead of whining about my poor precious current build. 3) I did and will enjoy adding one to my list of characters and kicking butt differently. 4) I like the new twist on Enchantment removal. Maybe Elementalists will just take Dervish primary for Mysticism...
But I will call bull-dookey when I smell it.
twicky_kid
Ok this is how we used the Well of profane to overpower a D/Mo team.
We spread so their skills could only kill one at at time. If they managed to drop one of us or the thumpers pet well went down. Our ritualist would camp the well of profane and constantly spam the spirits. Once they shelter was up it was killing time. We started rolling the team after that and continued to drop well of profane after each dervish we killed. They could never touch the rit or the spirits because it was inside the well. If they tried their boon prot couldn't heal them so they went down like a sac of bricks.
Come on people use some tactics.
We spread so their skills could only kill one at at time. If they managed to drop one of us or the thumpers pet well went down. Our ritualist would camp the well of profane and constantly spam the spirits. Once they shelter was up it was killing time. We started rolling the team after that and continued to drop well of profane after each dervish we killed. They could never touch the rit or the spirits because it was inside the well. If they tried their boon prot couldn't heal them so they went down like a sac of bricks.
Come on people use some tactics.
Divineshadows
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Originally Posted by Glasswalker
I don't see much harm in making CoP dependent on Rank in Divine Favor, or at least add that clause, "50% chance of failure below DF 1". Any monk can still use it because it just requires a minor rune and no points. Any other class is taking a slight risk with it.
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Originally Posted by Glasswalker
Maybe Elementalists will just take Dervish primary for Mysticism...
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Come on people use some tactics.
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They could kill just kill your player with well of profane first and kill him with priority each time rezzed.
If this is GvG you are describing and you have one of your players at the flagstand die and you put up the well, then they had absolutely no incentive whatsoever to fight you there. Their mobility is very good and much better than yours unless you are running two copies of charge. They could just go gank your base and outmaneuver you until VoD (if it even goes that far) at which point you will most certainly be at an NPC disadvantage and totally screwed due to their AoE being so great at the stand. If you decide to not send anyone back to defend your NPCs and chose to counter-gank, then you will most certainly lose the gank race.
The only guild I happened to observe that actually made tactical plays running a mass D/Mo build was Ectos and Shards [EnS].
Oh, and you had a rit? All the more reason for them to split and gank...
twicky_kid
Their mobility is good. The base is a death trap vs Dervish I agree. I know that for a fact I was playing a dervish in a balanced build all weekend. Once I got inside a base a sythe and aoe enchantments ripped the NPCs to shreds (we also had a smiter on me).
This also works against the dervish because soon as well drops there is no way to dodge it or go around it.
Most of the teams we ran into were noobs. That goes to show you that even tactics can beat an overpowered build. I'm not saying that nothing needs to be changed but think about the changes before suggesting. Anet listens to the whiners too much. Many times things are changed but over nerfed.
This also works against the dervish because soon as well drops there is no way to dodge it or go around it.
Most of the teams we ran into were noobs. That goes to show you that even tactics can beat an overpowered build. I'm not saying that nothing needs to be changed but think about the changes before suggesting. Anet listens to the whiners too much. Many times things are changed but over nerfed.
anshin
this is also my first post in guru...
you guys were discussing CoP...isn't that a monk skill? why putting the blame on the dervish? don't want dervish to use CoP than DON'T inflict conditions NOR hexes on it...
Glasswalker....dude...YOU RULE! \,,/(^^)\,,/
i loved the dervish, loved the looks...COME ON! its a char that looks like the grim reaper and even has a scythe!!
you guys ruin the game...this is why i don't like PvP...i just hope they keep the dervish as it is since probably i'll only play it in PVE because you guys ruin everything by the looks of it....i didn't even know eles were nerfed O_O you guys are dumb really...
BTW: does Anet even gives a s*** of what you guys post here?
you guys were discussing CoP...isn't that a monk skill? why putting the blame on the dervish? don't want dervish to use CoP than DON'T inflict conditions NOR hexes on it...
Glasswalker....dude...YOU RULE! \,,/(^^)\,,/
i loved the dervish, loved the looks...COME ON! its a char that looks like the grim reaper and even has a scythe!!
you guys ruin the game...this is why i don't like PvP...i just hope they keep the dervish as it is since probably i'll only play it in PVE because you guys ruin everything by the looks of it....i didn't even know eles were nerfed O_O you guys are dumb really...
BTW: does Anet even gives a s*** of what you guys post here?
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by anshin
BTW: does Anet even gives a s*** of what you guys post here?
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Anyways you might want to read the forum guidlines about flaming people. Especially calling 10 pages worth of post people have created dumb.
Loralai
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I'd stay in pve if I was you. PvE is like ignorance land. Ignorance is bliss till someone comes and shatters you little world.
Anyways you might want to read the forum guidlines about flaming people. Especially calling 10 pages worth of post people have created dumb. |