Time to fix the Elementalist

I agree that Eles have become a support class.

I would blame their primary attribute for this, since is has very limited uses.

I suggest either:

a, Make Energy storage an automated attunement, for every point in Estorage, you gain 5% back when casting a spell.

b, Make Energy Storage give an additional energy recaharge pipe. For every five points in Estorage, gain one extra energy regenaration. With 16 Estorage, that would max out at 4 + 16/5 = 7.33 energy regenaration.


Note that these balances might overpower for Ele, but please take in mind that these are not final numbers and i would love the idea. It would actually make the Ele a powerful class again.

Obsidian flame, gale, no.

Amen. Radical changes to Eles aren't needed. Little bit goes a long way always.

a would be overpower and make ele become more of a support class like rangers, maybe only elemental spell(may or may not include the lightning spell from ritualist)

b is a good idea, in addition to the current +3 mana per point.

They can make the elemetal attribute have inherent effect, for each point, increase damage and spell crit chance like the warrior weapon attribute.(this might make Air magic overpower)

or instead of adding spell damage or crit chance(do they have spell crit, i never seen 1 myself, if not, they can add spell crit in as well), they can make them do special effect.

Fire: for every 3 point in fire, target foes will suffer burning for 1 sec, spell already do burning effect will have the burning effect extended.

Water: For every point in water, target foes will move 2% slower than normal for 3 sec(only the slowing effect get stronger, not the duration).

Air: for every rank in Air, air spell have 1% of armor penetration.

Earth: maybe extra armor for each rank or earth spell have a KD effect, like, for each rank of earth magic, earth magic have a 1% chance of knock down.

I think people are thinking way to ahead with this and please don't start anouther 5 posts about the same subject like a few months ago.

I think ele's just need a few skill buffs is all which ones however I don't know. But all this talk about changing energy storage and stuff like that is just plain silly it would take way to long to do and knowing Arena net you would all have to re-do your ele's again IF they changed this.

no keep it plain a simple buff up a few skills done.

Why not?
I like your idea, only because I think ES is fine like it is, and that we don't need E/X casting anything else than their own spells.

But I would see something like that:
Fire: Each rank increase AoE and Burning duration by 3%.

Water: Need skill reworking. Each rank in Water increase water hexes duration by 3%.

Air: Every Air damage skill has 5% armor penetration instead of 25%. In addition, each rank in Air adds +2% Armor penetration.

Earth: Each rank increase damage from Earth spells by 2%.

My a idea wouldn't make Eles a support class, it would make them powerful and open up for more comboing of elementalist primarys.

To the people suggesting more chances in form of critical spell hits, no, please don't include more chances instead of skills than there alraedy is. I thought Guild Wars was trying to avoid that?

Answer to:

Fire: Each rank increase AoE and Burning duration by 3%.

No, this would undermine the already known sizes of AoE, thus not keeping it simple.

Water: Need skill reworking. Each rank in Water increase water hexes duration by 3%.

No, every non-hex water spell would not benefit from this.

Air: Every Air damage skill has 5% armor penetration instead of 25%. In addition, each rank in Air adds +2% Armor penetration.

Armor peneltration is already nearly useless, this would be just as useless as strength.

Earth: Each rank increase damage from Earth spells by 2%.

Ranks in Earth Magic already does this, no need for a double effect.

But do not forget that this is a CORE class. So the class will surely die out if they leave it like this or make only a option or two available (thus leaving us with a number of cookie cutter builds).

The elementalists are stuck in a unhandy position, the pve elementalist mobs are WAY stronger than our pve elementalists. So they have to change things with care . Otherwise you could get a few situations which could be.... nasty

Elementalist bosses (canthan sided) doing 600+ damage in one strike anyone?

It would make them able to continously nuke which lots of nuker able to do so with good energy management but it makes it easier to do so.

The a suggestion will actually promote Elementalist primary as support class like Ranger. It open up more combo for Elementalist for sure, but it doesnt make them a primary DD which people want them to be.

cry...

Elementalists have some of the most powerful spells in the game. I say lower the recharge and energy costs and exhaustion of some earth/fire spells.

Then remove the 20% armor penetration on all the air spike spells. that'll get the pvp'ers whinning.

Gale ok but Obsidian flame?

Obsidian flame is the only ranged spell in the elementalist's repertoire that ignores armor, the other one is the PBAoE Crystal wave (it is repeated as Teinai crystals). Its sad that the only armor ignoting spell we have have exhaustion; i quote:

"When Exhaustion occurs, the caster loses 10 maximum energy... Maximum energy is recovered at a rate of 1 pip = 1 point of energy every 3 seconds."

Let me compare Obsidian flame with another armor ignoring spell, Vampiric gaze:

A maxed Obsidian Flame deals 118 damage, but the exhaustion makes it cost 10 energy. You need 30 seconds to get rid of the exhaustion effect, and then you energy is fully recovered.

A maxed Vampiric Gaze deals 63 damage. In 30 seconds you can cast 4 times to deal 252 damage with a cost of 40 energy. But since your energy recovers at a rate of 4 points per 3 second (4 pips, no exhaustion) after those 30 secs you have your 40 energy points back.

118 vs 252 damage !

I insist, why Obsidian flame should cause exhaustion? Better make it cost 10 and recharge in 10 than adding exhaustion.



I have some ideas id like you all to have a look at (any feedback is welcome):

1. We depend on enchantments and we cannot avoid their removal. There should exist a "lock skill/stance" that prevents the enchants to be removed. I propose to modify the currently uninteresting Mirror of ice in order to have that.

2. The recharge of all attunements is really excessive because if they are removed we cannot recast them as we do with Aura of restoration or as a monk does with Divine boon. A recharge of 15 secs should work.

3. Better percentages of the rebate (payback) of energy when using an attunement, and depending on Energy storage ranks. Its really sad that we need to use twin attunements in order to keep casting (btw both give 83% back). Why not having x attunement with over 70% back when E storage is above 12 ranks?

I know this would kill FC eles but if the best damage dealer Ele is a FC ele then Elementalists do have a serious problem.

4. Glyphs with less recharge times would make them really usable: Lesser energy and Essence @ 15-20 secs, Renewal and Energy @ 5-10 secs.

5. Reconsider exhaustion. Exhaustion was added because of the Gale warrior build, wasnt it? Then instead of the gray bar that recovers at a rate of 1 pip of energy make Exhaustion remove one pip of energy from your natural regeneration rate for 5 seconds. And make that stackable.

In that way an elementalist exhausted would have a rangers regeneration for 5 seconds. But a warrior exhausted using zealous or vampiric weapon should have no energy recover: am i killing the shock warrior? i dont think so.

Exhaustion was around long before the Gale War. All that happened to Gale was the base energy cost was increased from 5 to 10. And I do like the lesser cooldown for glyphs. Watch for people calling cutting Glyph of Renewel to 5-10 seconds too powerful though. Using it, you can effectively cut the recharge time of a single spell down to the recharge time of the Glyph (meaning, in its current state, 15 second recharge on any one spell, such as Meteor Shower). An overall lessening of the time it requires for both casting and recharge on spells/glyphs would be nice.

I think it would be nice to have the Attunements more potent, and (as was stated in another thread, the enchantment one), have Ele Attunement and the regular attunements not stack, but all be an equal level of return. Be nice to have them be stances (watch people cry overpowered on that...just get a wild strike Assassin or start equiping Wild Blow on wars. :P). That would help with the removal issues that elementalists suffer from them.

I would also agree that exhaustion needs to be reconsidered, but not necessarily in the way it functions, but more on the number/type of spells it is applied to. All of the Mind spells come to mind...

Overall, I know for sure that I want a non-elite viable e-management option. And no, eles can't just do like other classes. Mesmer inspiration e-management is just not strong enough when all of your spells are 10+ (usually more like, 15 or 25) to cast.

Armor (ESPECIALLY in later PvE stages) really is what hurts the ele as far as damage goes with individual spells. The other problem is cooldowns and cast times.

Oh, and please make Meteor Shower hit wait 3s, hit, wait 3s, hit instead of wait 3s (warning all human players to MOVE), hit, wait 3s, hit, wait 3s, hit.

Also, in my opinion, a large number of AoEs need to be buffed. This isn't about PvE, this is about PvP (though it applies to both). Firestorm is a joke in PvP. Why? Long recharge, easy to int, easy to move out of, low damage.

I would ask that those hard core GvG/HA PvPers out there come in here and offer their views on what changes would make them consider Eles for primary damage dealers. I'm focusing here on PvP because balance is more important there.

What is wrong with air in pve as a guildie used his Ele all through out Factions by useing air?He wasn't going back to fire as it cost to much enrgy.I have seen them use air in PvP.

I wouldn't say there is to much wrong with Eles sure in pve everyone want a Nuker like an MM as well but it is not always needed.I played a protection Monk in Factions as I played healer in Prophecies so I wanted the change and it worked well.

I think the basic idea of the ele is to do insane damage, but have serious drawbacks, like long recharge times, long casting times, and exhaustion. I think this is an interesting balance. I'd rather they kept the drawbacks in place, but ramped up the damage so the profession is fair.

And add more one-shot ranged AOE spells like Rodgort's Invocation, which is what the ele really wants to be doing. Ranged DOT AOE is too easy to run from, and PB AOE is impractical for a squishy.

Yeah. The only reason to use an E is for Shock/Blind in PVP and for nuking in PVE. Nukers are weak in Faction PVE, compared to Prophacies. Air Spiker is one of the best antitouch noob builds. Luxons like to use their touch rangers 3-8 at a time, so I rarely use anything but my Spiker for pvp these days. Nothing like electrified touchie.

Energy cost is not that bad when you use Ele attunment and x elment attunment. I assumed they did not stack, until an alliance member told me. Nuke is hardly worth using in PVP, thanks to the rediculous recharge time.

Reducing the recharge and cast time would be nice, especially with the D comming soon, if not their is no major reason to use the E except for blinding.

Exaustion has to be there for a couple of skills, but some really don't need it. It should be removed from Meteor and Meteor Shower, the long cast and recharge times make up for it. Obsidean Flame and Gale need exaustion.

Nukers are weak in PvE in any context after Droks in Prophecies. I play air spiker now with twin atunements and blind since Factions release, or Fire with Mark of Rodgort and renewal Meteor shower for the burning condition and the KD effect, not for real raw damage.

Interesting the antitouch build, can you post it of whisper it to me?

Thats what i have proposed several times, dearest curtman, i apologise for the repetition ad nauseam but here i go:

1. Attunements with high Energy storage should grant us the 83% of energy back that we obtain using twin attunements now (elemental+x attunement), so we can be free to choose an elite out of Elemental attunement for once in a while.
2. Attunements should have a recharge time of 15-20 secs so we can be able to recast them when they got stripped.
3. Exhaustion should be removed from Mind x spells, Meteor, Meteor shower and Earthquake.
4. A Glyph of non-exhaustion should exist: non-elite, 10-15 secs recharge, to use Mind x elites.

Examples:

Casting a Meteor shower each 15 seconds with Glyph of renewal each 15 seconds without the exhaustion penalty would made of me a very happy ele and a real nuker in PvE. Isnt the lack of damage what we are complaining about? well that is one solution... Thx curtman.

Mind x elites are impressive but useless since the only non exhaustion glyph is Elite. I havent seen a single person using them out of RA context where its rarely but possible to see Mind shock. No exhaustion using Mind x spells would make eles to use those skills at ease: imagine an PvP ele using echoed Mind shock or Mind freeze to neutralize melee (a necessary task with the arrival of the Dervish), or a PvE ele using echoed Mind burn to deal real damage and burn people.

Id love that !

QFT.

The question is, then, if eles are a damage-dealing class or a support class. They're fine for support, but if they're supposed to do anything but support & knockdown, then they need a buff, and the most obvious way of making their non-armor-penetrating attacks do decent damage would be to change energy storage to armor penetration.

Which shows that even ANet consider the Elementalist too weak as opponents. Honestly if those monsters where as weak as normal player elementalists, they would be total pushovers. To Bad Anet only improved the monsters.

I totally agree, Roupe.

Just as an anecdote: the Elementalist boss Chung the Attuned hits for 341 dmg with his Lightning orb on a 60 armor foe, whereas i hit for 140 at 16 Air and for 156 at 18 Air (Glyph of elemental power).

I made some maths to figure out the attributes on Air i should have in order to deal 341 dmg vs 60 armor foes and my calculations spat a 41 attributes result.

Conclusion: Yes, ANET is totally aware of the fact that we suck as damage dealers but they dont care about PC Elementalists.

*sigh*

Not to mention, Necros get energy back when something dies, and Vampiric Gaze is healing them at the same time!

I always thought Eles should be immune to exhaustion (or, suffer less effects), since it seems Exhaustion was originally set up to keep other classes from exploiting spells (like a Warrior casting Gale ).

Actually, I have no idea what the hell Anet is currently thinking with eles. You basically have a class which is somewhat usuable in causing mass damage to mobs in PvE (although, more likely to just scatter and aggro even more mobs), and as mentioned be support in PvP.

To those who object to a wholesale revamp of the ele, I have to ask "why?" It's the class with arguably the worst Primary ability in the game, and it abolutely fails at causing the most damage of any class (which I think is still advertised on the official website.

I would love to see a whole revamp, but failing that, at least advertise Eles for what they are: a second best alternative to other classes when it comes to dealing damage.