Why don't you PvP?

A large number of you keep saying that PvE has nothing to do with PvP. Try pvp, then say that again. PvE and PvP are the exact same thing, except eoe bomb isnt a build in pve. That's all. Oh, and pve is 100 times easier because you're fighting enemies with no intelligence whatsoever. I can 4 man FoW with my pvp guild EASILY. I am still amazed that 8 people cannot do it. And I love when noobs refuse the fact that I can 6-man the deep.

I don't play PVP because of exactly the post above me.....

I prefer teamwork and having a good time rather than saying "I'm the best and you PVE'ers are complete noobs...."

"Look at me I can do the deep with 6 people....I'm the best."

So what if I die and don't have the best uber build in the world - it doesn't make a bad player or ruin that persons experience.
Stuff like being called a newb/noob in PVP does ruin that experience so I take the easy way out and give it a complete miss.

I'd rather play co-op than competitive.

I'd really like if Anet gave some indication on what proportion of the people play PVE or PVP or both.... it would be an interesting stat I'm sure

Uh, if you're good at teamwork and have good communication skills, then you won't be called a noob because people will actually work well with you.

Then I agree, PvP isn't for you.

Well, if you die and don't use an optimal build which is effective for the type of PvP and role your team fits you with, then guess what? You ARE a bad player - a bad pvp player.

To be frank, and - with the disclaimer that no one is forcing to pvp, and that if you don't like pvp, well then that's perfectly fine - if being called a noob gets you so pissed off that you want to avoid a good part of a product which you paid 50 bucks for, well then, maybe you aren't quite the type of person Al Gore invented the internet for.

Look - in the 50 bucks that you paid for Guild Wars, you paid for BOTH the PvP AND PvE portion. So why not try both out? You paid for it...

I still play a lot of FPS, and for my age I think I'm pretty good, but playing console games with my grandkids makes it plain that I have no business in serious competition. <-- (the old pro)

One thing this thread has proved - 'never the twain shall meet'. Although reading the pvp evangelists trying to convert people is always good for a laugh.

Interesting conclusion, considering that almost every post in this thread was made by someone that plays either PvE or BOTH. I'm sure everyone who's read your original post in this topic is well aware of your perfectly rational distain for the PvP community, there's no need to re-affirm it every other page.

Ps.

The top five reasons I don't PVP --

5) I like being called a 'scrub' -- a term PVPers seem to like hurling around almost as much as 'noob' -- because I PVE. I'm not entirely sure what is meant by 'scrub', but I figure that cleanliness is next to godliness, scrubbing leads to cleanliness, thus being a 'scrub' must mean one is godly. Not that I particularly aspire to goddesshood, mind you, but it does seem clear that 'scrub' is a high compliment indeed.


4) Being a contrarian by nature, I enjoy playing the game as it was never meant to be played. I have no idea why it was never meant to be played PVE-only (or pretty much so), but I've been told that so many times that I'm sure it must be so. I figure it must be a religious thing, something along the lines of "And Lord Balthazar said, "Thou shalt hold only PVP in thine heart, and PVE only in disgust and with nose held whilst screaming 'UAX now!' over and over until it rends the heavens and sunders the souls of those who would PVE for fun."". Or something like that, anyway.


3) I prefer a challenge. In PVP everyone's the same level, everyone has the same health, everyone has the same armor, everyone has the same skills... Boring! No challenge at all! Now go fight Rotscale. He's ten levels higher than you, has roughly 20 times your health, has essentially infinite energy, his skills do several multiples of the amount of damage yours can, your hexes only last half as long on him, and he casts twice as fast as you. Throw in all of his buddies and random poison spots and it's enough to give any sane person nightmares. I dunno about you, but in my book fighting Rotty is much more of a challenge than fighting your average wammo who's primary skill is the ability to type 'noob' quickly and often.


2) Amusingly enough, given that it fundamentally involves naught save two small groups of people trying to beat the sacred airborne rodent defecation out of each other for no apparent reason, PVP violates my anti-social nature. In PVE I can (and have) hench the entire game. In PVE I can (and do) play only with my small circle of close friends. In PVE I can, with a little care and the unchecking of chat options, pretty much ignore the rest of the player population and in turn be ignored by the rest of the player population. In PVE I've never been tempted to type 'lfg' (or, for that matter, anything else), never had anyone question my build, and I've always played exactly as I wish. Aside from RA, which I've been told numerous times is not "true" PVP (excuse me for a moment while I roll my eyes), one needs a group to PVP -- a problem, as my small circle of friends is comprised entirely of individuals even less interested in PVP than I. In PVP one's build will invariably, and not without reason, be questioned. In PVP one will not play as one wishes, but will play as the group needs, or one will lose early and often. As my desire to participate in such a team 'sport' ranks just slightly lower than my desire to have red-hot needles stuck under my fingernails whilst undergoing a triple root canal, sans anesthesia, it's safe to say that PVP and I are not ever going to get along.


1) Fundamentally, and more seriously, I don't PVP because doing so offers nothing of interest to me. It doesn't excite me to beat another person, it doesn't particularly bother me to lose to another person. I don't care about fame, rank, glad points, Balth faction, or any ladder. The one time, in the over a year I've been playing, that PVP did offer something I wanted, I did try it. I played a lot, I won a lot, and I lost a lot. I got what I wanted and discovered that while PVP was more, much more, exhilarating and quite a lot easier than I had expected, in the end my instincts were right and it simply wasn't for me. Once I had what I wanted I simply wasn't interested enough to bother going back and doing any more. For me, the Nightfall PVP beta aside, PVP lacks anything that motivates me whilst PVE is filled with things I find interesting and motivating. In the end it's as simple as that.

Whoa, he's right. PvE and PvP ARE the same because you always fight enemies with NO intelligence!

Man, that's a startling revelation!

To me, GW time is usually my downtime -- i.e. I am trying to relax / unwind. The few times I've played PvP, the experience seems to involve lots of:
1) posturing
2) name calling
3) immature / stupid behavior

None of which really appeals to me...

A-net has publicly said that GuildWars was not built for PvP, and it's not. Many people try to say that it was, and that's all that is good about the game. But everyone I have talked to that has told me that have not played other games that were PvP based. GuildWars PvP was just an add-on, and it is not what PvP is all about. GuildWars was built to be a PvE game.

The PvP part of the game is not welcoming to new members that would like to try it out and maybe play PvP more often. I've tried it out, but I could never get in a good group because of everyone wanting a ranked person in the team. Well, I hate to break it to you, but you can't rank if you can't get in a team. Someone can be kickass and not be ranked. PvE takes just as much skill and patience as PvP does if you play the game right and not try to rush to the end.

I have never kept myself a PvP slot. All the characters I have brought up are flexible to any build that I want to put on them. PvP characters are a one shot build. They are built for one thing, and one thing only. You go and tell the game you want to create a PvP character and Boom! you're automatically level 20 and pumped to the max. You can buy every skill in the game playing against other level 20 computers, and as I see it, cheat the game out from the real fun of building yourself up from nothing.

I know everyone will continue to argue the facts over PvE and PvP, but if you're a real gamer and have played a multitude of different games, you can see the difference right away and pinpoint the fact that GuildWars just wasn't made to PvP and the PvP community is tightly knit to a certain kind of people and a certain kind of players that just want to kill time and act all big and bad because they've got so much faction and they are so high of rank and all the other PvP labels that are there.

You may like the way the GuildWars has set up the PvP program, and that's fine. I personally enjoy the PvE best, and always have, and always will. That's what the game was built to do. I take my time and enjoy the game. I don't rush through it and make it fast and boring, which is a big reason I hear why people PvP, because PvE is too boring and too easy and too easily finished. Different characters have different paths on the game and different difficulties throughout the game. Each new character is a new adventure if you follow the game line and take side trips here and there.

I know I'm starting to ramble, so I'll leave my post to this. I could go on for awhile about this and say a lot just from personal experience throughout the gaming GuildWars world on both sides of the PvE and the PvP. I like PvE, and that's that. You may like PvP, and so be it. This is something that shouldn't become a great big deal and cause so much split between the community and players.

I don't PvP because.....

....I uninstalled and it's been the wisest decision i've made when it comes to that game.

seriously, Guild wars has really been suckin since factions..

I guess theres a line between gamers that play Guild Wars... the ones that want instant-gratification and the ones that want to actually have to WORK for their characters.....

Do you have a link to A-net saying this?
I don't think they did because it clearly is not true. Skills/Armor/Weapons/classes are all balanced so that they work in PvP, when designing anything new, the first thing that is considered is how it will effect PvP.

I play pvp about 70% and pve 30%. I definately find PvP more of a challenge. In PvE you know what you will be facing so can build to beat it. It PvP you can only guess at what you will face and you have to adapt. When there is a human brain on the other end then anything can happen.

PvE has been fun but I wish I didn't have to play through it multiple times, it is just a method of unlocking for me. The way guild wars is at the moment PvE players can easily avoid the majority of PvP but PvP players find it a lot harder to avoid PvE because of the unlock process, it is possible to avoid but it makes the unlock process a lot slower.

Must disagree here. The challenge is in maximizing the use of those skills against your opponents, while prevent them from doing the same. The SKILL of the player makes all the differance if everything else is the same. Thats the challenge! Becoming better skilled than your opponent(s). BTW, I dont PvP, as I have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever, but this "Get better skills, gear, ect, than the other guy, and Pwn, lather, rinse, repeat", is what reduces the skill factor, and makes it more about whos got better/more powerful character skills/gear, than actual PvPing skills. I also cant wait for ANet to remove the "forced" PvP when leaving pre, and make it optional(fight mobs if not chosen), as Ive never done it, just warn people I wont be participating, and wait it out.

LOLOL. care to provide that quote? while i don't want to turn this into one of those discussions (there are plenty of threads for that already) the entire philosophy of GW is built around "everything on equal footing" (armor/damage/only 8 skills on bar/very low max character level/weapons/etc/etc/etc) specifically for the "jump directly into pvp" users. NONE of those things being equal matter for a primary PvE built game as you suggest. and yes, i have played many other MMORPGs and yes, i have first hand experience to compare GW with.

To all the PvP players who still don't understand that GW was made for PvE:

Read the update notes. There was no Balthazar Faction for a while into the game after the release.

Whoa. Jealous much?

PvP gives new players a feeling that they will never be good enough. If you have Rank 1 its not good enough If its rank 12 its not good enough and you are call a noob because you obviously IWAY'd your way....

I gave up on PvP when Rank Emotes were introduced. A LONG time ago.

That was because A-net thought everyone would want to PvE to unlock their skills for PvP, this was clearly a mistake which they fixed.

Whew almost had me there. If you hadnt said what you said in the paragraph under, I might have cried that one more person thought because they did grind they should win.

If you're rank 12, you're a noob because you spirit-spammed your way there. It's impossible to get that much fame with IWAY within a human lifetime.


Get it right :P

I don't PvP because I don't have a guild, which means I can't GvG, AB, or rarely HA.

I could do RA and competitive missions, but those are too easy for me.

Oh please, don't be such a overreacting drama queen.

'
Because I'd rather have my own build than have to use a cookie-cutter to get a pvp match. And to be honest, if I want to pvp, then I would rather shoot someone in the face with a gun. And believe it or not the pvp community makes the counterstrike one look well-mannered and respectful.'

If that is the original post you are referring to then if you want to break it down a little bit you get this. I criticized the fact that you generally need a cookie cutter build to get in a group in the first place. Then I stated my preference for counterstrike pvp. And finally I mentioned that the pvp community in this game is not the best. Where exactly did I show disdain(I assume that's what you meant) for the community ? One of the major themes of this thread was the fact that people don't pvp BECAUSE of the community. You have read the thread ? I doubt it since you are convinced I post every other page.

'Never the twain shall meet' - pretty accurate I would say. And there HAS been a fair amount of preaching, don't see how you can have a go for light-heartedly mentioning the truth.

So in conclusion, choose to 'pick' at my posts if you wish, really doesn't matter when you do it so badly.


ps

I don't pvp because i don't find it too fun. I like epic battles with mounts and stuff.

in fps the are cars and planes that are soo much fun, I think that is the best part about fps

I picked one of the few coherent posts from a PvEer (well, anyone) to reply to.
Scrub = someone who refuses to run a "cookie-cutter" build.

So if you play B/P or an SS necro in PvE, you don't exactly qualify for scrubdom.
To me, the challenge there is completely different from the one found in PvP.

In PvE, the AI is, quite frankly, crap. The only way to make bad AI difficult is to increase the base stats of the enemy you're fighting.

In PvP, the challenge doesn't come from beefed-up stats, it's from an enemy who will adapt to whatever you're doing to kill him.

(This post does not pertain to RA or HA, so no idiot Wammos. The enemy I'm talking about here is, ideally, one with actual skill.)

I'm not saying that PvE's challenges are unfun, just that they're difficult to compare.

in all honesty I don't enjoy it. it has little raw benifit beyond bragging rights. and quite frankly I am not a vain teeny bopper anymore. I just don't give a shit. I just want to play. The Rankest and such ahs drastically reduced yes. I'll give them that... but just like this last PvP event. everyone was bitching that the new builds were over powered instead of playing around and finding ways to beat them. Thats seems to be the biggest issue to me. The prerequisite of cookie cutter builds to be included in a party. Every try to join a group as a smitting monk? lol You will be kicked in a heart beat. Or a Blood necro that likes wells instead of being only a battery? And don't even get me started on Rangers and mesmers when they are not the restrictive cookie cutter builds...

I like to play the game and try new stuff. and most parties don't want that at all. they all want the same old stuff everyone else does... Thing I enjoy is when I find a total FU build to stuff like Iway, or BP builds... So I tend to just stick to PvE Elite missions and bonus UW and Fissure missions. Unless I'm helping a guildie or ally I should say.

PS: Anet we got all these other shrines... when we going to get something new with them? I would love to see another bonus UW like area in ToA for Nightfall!!!! Like the long talked about Lyssa's Realm Bonus Mission.

First, diversity in builds doesn't in anyway undermine skill. In any given match you can be pretty certain that you know you'll be facing one of a number of possible builds from the metagame. Your team has to able to anticpate the possbilities and make effective choices for your skill bar and have a plan of action for how you are going to react once you see what you are up against. The situation of a metagame is pretty much analogous to Magic the Gathering. Skill in guildwars PvP is not merely button spamming, and thats what is important. To equate skill solely with reflex is simply a far too narrow a view of skill. You seem to be comparing 2 very different games which diverge in their skill requirements, and claiming that one kind of skill is not really skill which doesn't make any sense. Beyond video games, its the same in sports. Teams aren't given identical pieces to work with. Teams all utilize different strategies. They have different players on their rosters with differnt skills. Thank the God's its not mere button spamming or i'd have deleted the bloody game months ago. I'm not sure why you think equipment has anything to do with this considering you can roll pvp characters with pretty much anything you want. There is imbalance for a new player stepping into RA with no runes or mods unlocked, but at the competative level this is a non-issue.

Also, its one thing to be critical and present arguments. But how you present them is important as well. You can present an argument without being a jerk. If you want people to listen, and if you actually care about a reasonable dialouge its generally better to not aim to piss people off from the start.
-----------------------------------

HT Ingram

About the value of PvP- its more than simple bragging rights. Its loads of fun to do. The actual grind of PvE after one has done the missions isn't that enjoyable in itself for for me. I don't really like farming as I find it dull and repetative but its the shiny loot that keeps me at it now and again. I see PvP as the reverse. Its not the end that keeps me going but the actual playing. Rank in HA and ladder standings are alright, but I don't play GvG or HA because I want loads of fame or to be at the top of the ladder (not primarily- though in terms of GvG i admit I like improving and winning) I play because I love the matches. I have fun, its challenging and I continue to develop as a player.

Also, I would bet a million dollars that more smiters are in PvP groups than PvE ones . Monks in PvE are like rare treasures, people get pissed off when they think that after hours of spamming in a district they finally have a monk to heal them and they turn out to smite.

I feel... violated.

Anyway...
"I criticized the fact that you generally need a cookie cutter build to get in a group in the first place."
This really isn't a problem outside of PUGs. I'm sure you're aware that this is mirrored in PvE PUGs, too.

"Where exactly did I show disdain for the community?"
("And believe it or not the pvp community makes the counterstrike one look well-mannered and respectful")
That's probably the part that put that notion in my head. Maybe you weren't refering to the cliche Counter-strike community but a subsect that parlays over tea mid-game.

"One of the major themes of this thread was the fact that people don't pvp BECAUSE of the community."
Yes, there are a lot of obtuse comments being thrown around, I agree.
Note: People like Gli, dispite having a somewhat double-standard when it comes to FotMs, I can understand. Some people just don't find PvP fun by it's very nature, I can respect that. People that, after playing a match in RA, go on to rant about the state of PvP as a whole on the other hand...

Ps. (TM)

More generally used to simply refer to a bad player who doesn't particularly care about improving.

At the moment, the only kind of PvP that I do is Fort Aspenwood - I play on either the Luxon or Kurzick side depending on my mood. Sometimes the PvE side of GW bores me because some the mobs consist of the same professions, who has the same skills and does the same thing over and over again. They provide a challenge at first, but once you have worked out their skills and patterns you can easily steamroll them. RA, TA, etc doesn't interest me at the moment since I mainly PvE. However, Fort Aspenwood and the likes, do entertain me because it has elements of both PvE and PvP.

These maps are like most PvE missions with PvP thrown in. You have an objective and fight NPCs with some human opponents thrown in, who provide a surprising, additional challenge.

When I first entered Fort Aspenwood, I was a bit scared having to go against other players as I saw it as PvP and read many of the name-calling/flaming stories on this site that happens in PvP. PvE builds that saw my characters through GW:P and most of GW:F with ease didn't really worked and I was killed time and time again. I had to change my gameplay and try out different builds.

My worries were unfounded and grew to enjoy these maps. I can play any of my characters that I choose and it doesn't really matter to someone else what I play. I can play any build that I chose and it doesn't really matter to anyone else. I can focus on the PvE side, and avoid encountering other human players and treat it like any other PvE missions. I can go against other human players and see if I'm really as good as I think I am. With a good team there is communication and teamwork. Good, friendly, polite players seem to outnumber the jerks. I've seen more "Hi", "GL", "HF" and "GG" here than in normal PvE missions. Opponents have even praised me for doing a good job.

If you're a PvEr and want to experience some PvP, then I would suggest trying Fort Aspenwood rather than RA - it has elements from both worlds..

A 'bad player'? By who's definition? I tried GvG and a couple of other forms of PvP and didn't like any of them. I certainly don't care about improving my gameplay in something I dislike, so if that makes me a 'bad player' it is only in your opinion. Generalisations are what causes most of the bad feelings on here.

If you like PvP - fine! Have fun with it! Seriously, I mean it - it's a game and thats exactly what you should be doing. Just don't try and classify those that (in my opinion..!) are the biggest section of the GW community as bad players. I would champion the right of anybody on here to enjoy whatever aspect of GW they like, as long as it is within the rules that Anet lay down for the game.

The person throwing the insult, of course. Which is why it holds about as much weight as 'noob'.
Ironically, 'scrub' is usually reserved for insulting players running 'gimmicky' builds.

Ps. (TM)

This thread is now closed for insults and becoming just another PvP vs. PvE arguement. It started off well but has deteriorated.