Why don't you PvP?

Interesting...

"PvE has a cookie-cutter option, not a problem"
I'm sure there are many un-loved PvE Assassins that have been reduced to henching through the game that might disagree with that statement. Remember, there's a distinct difference between opinion and fact.

"Well, it is too long."
How is the distance to the flag stand any different to the distance between you and the nearest mob in a PvE scenario?
How does it any take longer to grab 8 skills and start a scrimmage match than it does to grab 8 skills and start a PvE mission? It's a scrimmage, you make the rules. There doesn't have to be any pre-game coordination at all, it can just be two happy-go-lucky teams facing off... after an epic journey up the face of Mount Evere-- I mean, after moving to the flag stand.

1st
.........there was a time when i really got into PvP that started when i made consecutive wins as a boon prot at RA which then proceeded to TA. i made friends and fortunately they we're really good and had some unique, fun and strong builds. they would pm me whenever they needed a monk and it was pure PvP fun when you see your party alive after a grueling battle with a poison,bleeding,cripple sword Ranger with a pet spamming disrupting lounge, Esurge,mindwrack,eburn,shatter enchant,drain enchant,sig. of weariness Mesmer with Blackout and an Air Ele spamming Lightning strike, Lightning orb on you and Blinding Flash on your War.

after 2 weeks of pure RA/TA as a monk and e-denial mesmer i decided to go to Heroes Ascent to try to win some games and get /rank to work when i type it. unfortunately and most depressingly the only thing that met me there was rank discrimination. i'm not with an all-PvP guild so my experience of that kind of gameplay isn't limited. and i DO know that "rank" (more or less) determines one's experience of GW PvP which is highly important when doing battles in HA but after a few days of trying to get into a group, i finally gave up on it. i still monk at TA once in a while but unless i'm with friends and/or a guild entirely devoted to PvP i can't imagine myself giving up PvE for it.

2nd
what i like about PvE is that i get to see on my character the fruits of the hours and days i've spent working on it; the 15k, the fow the 15^50 weapons, etc. PvP has that too in the form of a "cool looking avatar" that spawns from your character for everyone to see but as i said above... =_=

Some of us hench through the game by choice you know..

Basically, my computer is too slow.
I hate it, really.
Even in PvE, it loads absolutely fine if I'm playing on my own, solo. If I bring henchies, then it lags ridiculously at my first enemy encounter, which, sadly causes me to perish quite often as I'll enter the battle, think I'm putting on enchants and such amidst all the lag, but no, really I'm just getting owned.
It works much the same when I'm with a group only there's more lag spikes than anything, and the first encounter with an enemy is horrid and often the screen just pauses for a good 5 minutes. This is also horrible on load times, usually in/out of town loads are ridiculously slow, so, naturally, in a PvP or GvG match, by the time I get in the game, it's loaded.
I'll admit after a few minutes it runs somewhat decently considering the only thing I have above minimum requirements is my vid card.

So, if I had a faster computer, that moved smoothly enough for me to worry about what's going on in game while I'm PLAYING rather than in game while I'm waiting for the game to stop freezing up.
It's sad, really. I've always wanted to get immersed in the world of PvP and GvG but it's just too frustrating with a slow computer. I do it every so often for relief, but, since I don't play often enough, I'm left only to read about builds and team strategies and never get time to try them.

One day soon perhaps ...

Funny. One of the first things you PvP guys always throw at people is: "Find a good guild." That goes for PvE too you know. My statement is fact, not opinion. Every unloved assassin has final say in whether he wants to play with someone or not. Of course, other people have the same choice regarding him. That doesn't force him to go cookie-cutter. He just needs to find a group of people he's compatible with. Henchies are a far more entertaining choice than latching on to the cookie-cutter crew anyway.

No PvE player needs to get within 100 yards of a cookie-cutter if he doesn't want to. That's the simple truth.

If there weren't any pre-game coordination, I'd be sitting around the guild hall waiting for someone to join my scrimmage match until I starved. The walk to the flag stand is too long because the game that follows isn't worth it. Press some buttons, dodge some attacks, people die, game over. I fail to see how that could be fun to anyone. No challenge, no sense of accomplishment, no reward, no excitement. PvP reduced to pure mechanics with nothing to redeem the tedium. No thanks.

"Funny. One of the first things you PvP guys always throw at people is: "Find a good guild." That goes for PvE too you know. My statement is fact, not opinion. Every unloved assassin has final say in whether he wants to play with someone or not. Of course, other people have the same choice regarding him. That doesn't force him to go cookie-cutter. He just needs to find a group of people he's compatible with. Henchies are a far more entertaining choice than latching on to the cookie-cutter crew anyway.

No PvE player needs to get within 100 yards of a cookie-cutter if he doesn't want to. That's the simple truth."

Cmon Gil, you know that's not true. There are so many people so set in their ways in this game on both ends. I was doing a quest on newbie isle and everyone insisted that I get an MM, can't do this quest w/o a mm. I had myself, an experienced player with a new char, two lvl 20 guildies, and a couple pickups. The same pug who said we needed an mm was also the one running ahead and leeroying out of our monk's range. He was the first to die of course.

So we went back to town after we all died, got rid of our mm fanboi and finished the quest. The other pug was surprised we did it without a necro.

Yah, you have the freedom to play how you want but most people are gonna pick what everyone says works or is the easy way out. If people actually did what you said Gil, there wouldn't be an abundance of cookie cutter builds running around.

Look, this game isn't a collection of the world's best gamers, it's just a ton of people. That fact right there is the root of every single problem in an mmo. When this is the foundation of your playerbase people are gonna play cookie cutter builds and think cookie cutter strategies.

Don't play with those people. Your choice.

That's because many people chose to run with the cookie-cutter option. That doesn't make it a problem.

And there's the perfectly viable option of not playing with those people. I do play in cookie-cutter pugs sometimes, it can be fun. Of course it's fun, otherwise no one would be doing it. It's probably the only way pugs can work in the more difficult parts anyway. I usually have a lot more fun though if the pug is struggling to get the job done, but everyone hangs in there till the end.

I also go out and do any number of odd things when I feel like it, solo, with henchies or with guildies. Some PvP people are fond of saying: "Go find a guild, the game is called Guild Wars for a reason." That goes for PvE as well.

I use to pvp but they're are to many jerks who want the gladiator title.

See, now that's a fact. Whether or not people consider cookie-cutter mentality a problem, that's an opinion. People often confuse facts with their opinions, it's okay.

"PvE doesn't have a cookie-cutter problem AT ALL, because you are 100% in control of the people who share your game instances with you."
Street-crime isn't a problem AT ALL, because you don't have to leave your house.
Cheap analogy, but I hope you try to understand where it's coming from.
To those that want to play with other people, PvE cookie-cutter mentality can be a very big problem.

Obviously, telling your guildmates of the scrimmage helps with the attendance just as it does in PvE, or do your guildmates instinctively know when and where you're going to meet up to play?

Anyway, it seems that you've finally got around to explaining why you really don't like PvP rather than just blaiming FotMs. Although, to be fair...

"No challenge, no sense of accomplishment, no reward, no excitement."

Unless you win every single match, you can't suggest that there's "no challenge" in PvP.

Excitement, on the other hand, is subjective. Some people find playing against an intelligent (I know, I know... I use the term loosely) opponent exiciting. Some people find masturbatory AI-whacking exciting (I <3 innuendo).

IMO the sense of accomplishment depends entirely on the difficulty of the endeavor. Considering that, as you said...
"if you play PvE with a happy-go-lucky group, you can still win...And then there's PvP, where this approach can never work at all."
I'd have to disagree that PvP lacks a sense of accomplishment. If you could just win every game without so much as trying, what sense of accomplishment would there be? Besides, who said that happy-go-lucky can't work? There's nothing quite like taking TA by storm with a bizzare RA team and racking up 3+ Gladiator Points in the process.

Rewards? While Hero's Ascent does have actual rewards, I can understand where this point's coming from. For the sake of PvE, I doubt they'd ever change the game to allow you to exchange Balthazar Faction for tangible rewards such as rare skins. Luckily, most find the actual gameplay reward enough. As opposed to work, deserving of a reward.

*breathes in*

Ps.

That analogy isn't just cheap, it's dead wrong. Those that want to play with other people just have to look a bit harder for the right kind of people. I never had any trouble finding people to play with who share my outlook on the game. I'll maintain, there isn't a problem with the cookie-cutter mentality in PvE. There's the mentality, sure, but I wouldn't call it a problem. If there is a problem, it's people being too lazy or resigned to find a way around it.

As a matter of fact, yes, we never arrange anything. We tend to just show up online at random and ask what's cooking, over the guild channel. We're a casual bunch, I'm one of the youngest, at 35 years. We all have families that take precedence and no one would dream of doing anything as silly as prearranging the hours we play.

I was saying all that referring to your scrimmage suggestion. It's not how I feel about PvP in general. Trust me, I do believe there is challenge, sense of accomplishment, reward and excitement in GW PvP. I'll not respond to the rest of your post because you wrote that based upon a misunderstanding.

I <3 happy endings.

"As a matter of fact, yes, we never arrange anything. We tend to just show up online at random and ask what's cooking, over the guild channel. We're a casual bunch..."

That was actually exactly what I meant. Just grabbing whoever's online, as you would with PvE, and playing Dodgeball or something.

Anyway...
Lub lub, night night.

Ps.

Edit: Nevermind. :I

but... I do PvP... !? ^^

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong (I can be hard headed too :P)

You always have 100% control over who you play with, pve or pvp. No one is forcing you to join any HA group, any gvg group, any TA group.

PvP is as fun as you make it. Me and my friends had a blast playing sig monks, (two sig of judgement, bane signet Mo/Me with skills to quickly recharge our sigs. only signets and mantras) in TA. We laughed at the people who complained that we only won cause our group had 3 monks in it, regardless of only one of them being a dedicated healer. This is soo an example of being forced to play with cookie cutter groups! it has to be, it's pvp.

in PvP you make what you want, and you take it where you want. If people don't agree with what your playing, then play with someone else.

I personally think you've had some horrible PvP related exchanges and it's spoiled your feelings towards it in general. I just wouldn't hang around HA anymore... or ever for that matter. The best feeling is cooking up something new, a new use of a skill, using an unused skill, making a new profession combo that people think will be stupid. If you have enough friends in your guild, then you guys could have a blast testing it at the temple, then TA, then HA or GVG.

PvP is one big bottle of exploration, that's been shaken too long and is ready to explode!

gotdangit I suddenly wish my guild was gvging tonite.

"Don't play with those people. Your choice."

I agree, if you are a person who has the time and patience to do this, you will enjoy gw a lot more. But do we really have a choice, when the game has no choice who it lets in to play?

You really aren't talking about people who play cc builds but rather competant people. I have seen a ton of people run a cc build and be a contributor to a group. Just because people use them doesn't mean they are bad or the concept is bad for the game.

The real problem as I said before is who plays the game, not builds. It's like having kids, anyone can do it. But it doesn't mean everyone should.

People in HA will only let you in their party if you are ranked, and how can you GET ranked if no one will let you in a group, and most of the unranked groups are crap? That's what has stopped me from PvP. I do RA sometimes but it's not the same really.

However I do enjoy AB very much, simply because there's more action and it's just generally more fun for me. No one cares about rank, it's just good fun.

Why don't I PvP...well...

GvG, every game lasts more than 30 minutes these days until VoD, espeacially those ones when the enemies have Ritualists in their team, that totally screws the fun up, I normally get bored after every 2 GvGs.

As for TA and RA, I normally don't have the time to even bother with TA, every round is almost the same, and the 4 people limit, that for me makes it boring. I do RA normally to test builds or just to have a bit of fun (which usually starts getting boring after 10 consective wins). I like big battles with lots of people and extensive teamwork, so normally I'd even choose GvG over TA/RA.

For HA, I'd really enjoy it, the only thing I hate about it is the rank crap. Yes, it was sort if my fault for not going into HA ealier when everyone else was building rank, so that's not really an excuse, but when your exprinced and get refused from high rank teams who might not even be as exprinced as you are, that totally blows.

That's why, good reasons no?

• In the Competitive Missions I can only control 6.25% of the playing field. (Myself)
• In RA I can only control 12.5% of the playing field. (Myself).
• In AB I can only control 16.666...% of the playing field. (My sub-team)
• In TA and GvG I can only control 50% of the playing field. (My team)
• In HA the percentage varies with the number of opposing teams.

I don't want to play with cookie-cutters on any side of the conflict. It bores me to tears. How many boon prots can you take apart and kill before it becomes a drag? How many touch rangers can you shut down and kill without losing interest?

And if I don't agree with what the opposition is playing, I should just leave the game and find another one? Aren't there enough leavers already?

Nothing more horrible than profound boredom and sincere disinterest.

And you're going to make sure the opposition is playing interesting builds as well, instead of the flavour of that particular month? My trouble has never been finding people to play with. I'm just not very interested anymore in a game that's stale 90% of the time.

Funny, I think of it more as a bottle that's been left open too long and has lost all its fizzle.

My problem is probably that I don't play games to be competitive. I play to have a good time, and that's something I don't find in GW PvP. Random Arenas could come close, if it weren't for the people who leave 2 seconds after they've seen their team. It was always a messy place to begin with, but the Gladiator points really killed it. Cookie-cutterism in reverse: leave your team if it doesn't cut your cookie, instead of building a cookie-cutter team from the ground up like it's done in non-random PvP. Those people are really on the lowest rung of the cookie-cutter ladder.

when ever I play the game in general, it's at least after 4pm, as some people who can hold a job[I was fired>_<] would be comming online soon, less 13 year olds in my groups. Improves my pve. As for pvp, if I ever want to, only after 1 am, I hope all of the 13 year olds are passed out on their key boards by then.
and yes, I agree with who ever said something about the CS community looking better then GW, some times....


and matrix, I had a round in aspenwood, I'm getting somewhat constant lag, not too bad, but my frame rate is bad for what it use to be in there

Well I do take time to PVP every now and then, so this question is not for me
But I do agree that GW pvp is new comer unfriendly=P
since there is no clear way for the system to tell who is new to pvp and who isn't, so we are all in a big pot of pvp. The good thing is for ppl that get the talent and the will he/she pick up very quick, the bad thing will be ppl with less desire and dont take losing too well going to hate it very soon~

Since you cant hench pvp(u can in HA, but lets be true to ourself, what are the chances=P), it become critical for a player to have some friend to pvp with.

For players with the will to try pvp, they can easily make enough friends to do it, those who dont have that will, ya~ PVP is pretty much a waste of time=P

Then again, with out wills, everything is a waste of time=P

stress

i do TA, but guild battles and intense HA groups are jsut way too stressful

the game shoudl jsut be fun

hm, lets see.....I am old and my reflexes are getting slower than the kids who play....I cant seem to do things as fast any more.
I LIKE pve, its more fun to kill things than people. (isnt there a commandment about killing people?).

Until last month my laptop I used to play GW on succked, no graphics card, no sound card, not much of anything....could barely play at all....and you want me to play vs real people who have elite GAMING computers??????????? (and who spend hours and hours in front of video games as a way of life.....well buddy, I am a woman with a career who only recently ever played a computer game and the last video game I can remember was mrs pacman...and I sucked at that as well---pong anyone?).......

I dont have fun in pvp, I play pve because I can whenever I want to without waiting for a group to pick me with my sorry-excuse-for-a-build...I hench a lot, I go where I want to go and killl those things that need to be killed and ignore others who will also ignore me.

Those are my reasons/excuses and I am sticking to them

Greetings,

Well, long thread to try and jump in on, but here goes...

Short Answer:
Because I can't hench in PvP.

Long Answer:
A good summation to the following would be: because of the immaturity found among the playerbase. This level of immaturity is (I feel) a direct result of the anonymous nature of the internet, coupled with immature players who can only feel good about themselves by attempting to belittle others.

Now, I've read this entire thread so far. This has already been brought up and rebutted as being not exclusive to PvP. I do agree. It isn't confined to PvP. There is a lot of it in PvE as well. The problem is that PvP is a lot more confined to areas you can be in than PvE is. As a PvP character, you can go to the Temple of Balthazar, Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Hero's Ascent, the various Zaiten challenges, Guild Hall for GvG, and the Alliance Battles. Compare that to PvE, where you can go to any of the close to 30 towns and outposts in Tyria and nearly as, or just as, many towns and outposts in Cantha. It's sort of like a filtering effect. Three drops of food coloring in a cup of water as opposed to a gallon of water, if you will.

Now, as for me personally, I just cannot tolerate immaturity, in most any kind of form. Leetspeak, "I'm better than you" attitudes, racial slurs, sexual innuendos, gaybashing, and just plain old elitism top the long list of examples of immaturity. All of these types of behavior are just nothing more than immature, close-minded behavior. Now, I do qualify immaturity by saying that it has nothing to do with chronological age. I've met plenty of early to mid teenagers who are a lot more mature than their 25-40 year old player counterparts. The problem lies in the fact that with PvP, there is a lot less areas to go to, so there is a greater concentration, per capita if you will, in the PvP areas than the PvE areas.

As far as the eliteism/cookie-cutterism, it has just as much of a presence in PvE as it does in PvP. Having trouble getting into a HoH group without rank or without running IWAY? Try getting into a ToPK group without running a barrage/pet build. Before it was fixed, try getting into a Sorrow's Furnace group that wasn't a 5-man gear exploit group. For me, however, the PvE problem is mitigated by the fact that I can take henchmen into those same areas without having to run the cookie-cutter builds. If I want to try to run a non-minion death necro, or a smiting monk (PvE side), or a sword ranger, or a beastmaster ranger, or any number of unusual builds, I could grab a henchie group and go.

However, to play with others, be they PuG or friends list or guildies, I have to conform, at least somewhat, to the cookie-cutter mentality. The reason for this is multifaceted, but it boils down, as far as I can tell, to time. Most people want the fastest team build possible. The one that can run the area the quickest.

Now, in PvP, the reason may vary, but the end-result is the same. People want the build that will have the greatest chance of winning against other players. The cookie-cutter mentality is still present. However, in PvP, if you wish to run a non-standard build, there are no henchmen you can take along. In fact, the only place to have henchmen, where true PvP happens (aka - not Temple of Balth), is in Hero's Ascent. But, there is only four of them in an area that needs an eight-person group.

Now, I not so anti-cookie-cutter that I won't run a plain-vanilla established build. It's just that it's plain vanilla. There's no variety to it. No creativity once it becomes an accepted strategy. If I want to play a sword-wielding, sever artery, apply poison ranger (for degen-stacking), I would have much more luck doing it in PvE than in PvP. Because, if I can find no-one who wants to run with my sword-wielding fool , then the henchmen are there to fill the void.

Now, as all good rule-of-thumb comments must have, there are exceptions to this.

First - Random Arenas. There is really no way you can expect a cookie-cutter build there because all grouping is out of your control. Hence, random. People know this, and accept this. In fact, I believe that some of the more esoteric builds do have their origins in RA (not that I'd ever be able to confirm this, it's just a feeling that I have). The reason is because in the other places, the cookie-cutter builds are dominating because people find them reliable. People go to RA to, basically, screw around, test out unique builds, and so on.

Second - Alliance Battles. Once again with the random, but this time, it's in the format of 4man teams you can control grouped with 2 other 4man teams you can't control. There is so much to do here - focused capping, capping/holding, mass engagements - that there is room for a more unique style of play than in the more formalized areas of PvP.

Now, I do occasionally dabble around in PvP, in RA and AB, for the above reasons. It's not locked into the cookie-cutter mentality and not reliant on taking henchmen to play a unique build.

As for the rest of PvP, well, the rest of the playerbase can have them. I'm not interested in rank, so no HoH. I'm not interested in competing in the GWWC (is that the right acronym?), so no GvG. TA is accepted by many, myself included, to be a training grounds for HoH and GvG, so I won't be there as well. As for PvE, at least I can count on my friendly neighborhood henchmen to be there for me when I need them.

By the way, as a closing caveat, the preceding summations are solely my opinions and interpretations. There are many, obviously, who would disagree. I have no problems with their viewpoints belong to them, as long no one attempts to force those views upon me. Just remember the phrase - Your mileage may vary.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

And so? In PvE you have 0 control over the composition of mobs, yet you aren't complaining about that How is this relevant at all?

it's okay, it's quite obvious at this point that he is just jaded.

Before I figured he just hadn't explored the different aspects of PvP enough. But it seems that his actual complaint is that other people playing actually want to win all the time. He prefers PvE because there is zero humans on the other side, He knows what is in his party, and will over time know the challenge that each enemy represents.

It's admirable, but not my cup of tea. I find the predictable mobs in PvE boring past the first time through. And knowing if i'm not playing one of the cookie cutter builds, I can't just grab a pug group.

I've always wondered what attraction people get from GW PvE. Outside of getting cool looking armor, good runes and weapons for PvP... what the heck is everyone working towards?

if all the good PvE MMOs didn't have monthly fees, i'd wonder why people bothered to continue PvEing at all.

Stop thinking that everyone else sees pve as the gateway to pvp. Thats what Anet wants us all to do. Personally I enjoy mucking about with new characters and builds in a pressure/elitist free environment. PvP just isn't for some people, learn to accept that.

Why don't I PvP?
Because it's all about getting the right build rather than individual skill.
It's luck of the draw.
PvP in RPGs is for people who suck at other, more balanced competetive games, such as RTS games or FPS games.

RPGs are about developing a character and following a storyline. Due to their very nature they will always be inherently unbalanced.

The only PvP in GW that I feel is even remotely fair are the random PvPs where people can't organise builds and therefore have to rely on their wits.
And these gametypes are plagued by ragequitting idiots or faction-leeching halfwits.

Best just not to PvP in GW at all to be honest.
I'd rather play Quake instead.

if you weren't trying to jump and attack someone, you might have realised, that's what I was talking about. In your qoute I talk about how I (as in me, personally) think that PvE is boring. Then I ask the question why people still PvE.

Yeah, I think EVERYONE sees PvE as a gateway. lol

1) I have no clue why you think your first statement is true. But nice job jumping out and insulting every PvPer in the game right off.

2) What do character development and storyline have to do with balanced play mechanics? In most RPG's the PvE elements of the game strive for a degree of balance. Second, guildwars PvP and PvE are in many ways autonomous elements. The PvP aspect is pretty much distinct from the PvE storyline elements. The only overlap is skill capping and item unlocking, both of which can be done without ever playing the PvE aspect of the game. So even if there was some sense to be made of the claim that RPG's and balance cannot coexist it wouldn't make a difference for PvP.

3) You seem to be missing the entire point of competative PvP in the GW environment. The skill and strategy doesn't merely arise from being a reflex junkie but from being able to create effective characters and teams from a pool of available skills in order to execute a particular strategy. The non-randomness of team building and coordination is absolutely essential to the skilled elements of PvP. Why is this not fair? Your wits still come into play since you don't know what you are going to be facing in a particular mathcup and you don't know what moves the other team will make during a match which forces your team to react. There is a metagame, but part of the challenge arise from analyzing it and trying to be prepared for a variety of circumstances. Along with this there certainly is individual play skill. Teams succeed because the people are doing their job. Not every team can simply pick up a build and win with it. I've played a lot of teams (and while learning certain builds expienced the same) who are stuck in the bottom end of the ladder even though they are running pretty much identical builds to top ranked teams. The difference is they don't know how to play it with skill.

Look, I like roleplaying. I like PvE. But I also really enjoy PvP and find it to be the more enjoyable part of GW (for me) at this point. But I haven't come out and insulted PvE players, but you've been a complete asshole and you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Sorry, but I can't take posts like this sometimes. GAWD.

The thread is about why people don't play PvP. Over 12 bloody pages people have been discussing this. There are some legitimate barriers, there are some legitimate solutions. But really its a matter of preference in the end. You either enjoy it or you don't. But for God's sake at least be fair about your assessment of one side or the other rather than chucking out insults. This should apply for either side.

Your significant experience at the top of the ladder gives this seemingly flawed opinion a lot of credibility. Sarcasm aside, GW PvP is very deep and not so build dependant at all. There are a lot of tactics involved (esp. GvG). Sometimes there may be broken combinations of skills that allow guilds to climb the ladder but those are inevitably changed and are no reason to avoid playing such a great aspect of the game. Watch [WM], [EviL] etc. their builds are nothing special but their tactics on the map are superb.

In general this is true. However GW PvP has nothing to do with the RPG aspect of the game. If I had to give it a genre, I'd call it Action-RTS.

I wouldnt say its "very deep", but it does offer you decent choices, and call all in all be nice.if a pve junkie friend of mine said its ultra fun (took her once for a coupla rounds in TA), i guess its true
and no, i dont see how having a certain skillbar would make you a good player.i can understand how being the newbie is very very annoying (go try to find a decent group for any organized pvp, takes forever), but there are solutions for it. So please refrain from commenting something, unless you have done it to at least a certain degree

What attracts me to PvE? Simple, I can create my own challenges.

Here's a number of things I've done: (solo or with guildies)

• Clear out most of the FoW with 2 monks and 3 mesmers.
• Get the Advanced Skill Hunter title as well as the Protector and Grand Master Cartographer titles for both continents on a new Factions character. (Trivial challenges, but well... getting them done takes a bit of effort and dedication.)
• Solo Hell's Precipice including the bonus. All alone, no henchies, using a runner/elemental tank/damage dealer warrior. I fell short of killing the lich. I think I could've done it but it was taking too long, I had RL creeping up on me.
• Solo the Defend Denravi Titan quest, again without henchies. Not just killing some Titans, but finishing the quest.

(The last two were a long time before the recent warrior damage reduction nerf. I'm not sure if I could still do them. Maybe I should go and find out.

QFT.

As a big RTS fan, I thought I'd hate Guild Wars. Until I tryed PvP, and realised how much strategy it required, unlike the massive amount of Grind-based PvP in other games like World of Warcraft.

lol you said mathcup

{*>RANDOM<*}

^_^

~A Leprechaun

Meh. This thread has been derailed off a cliff.

The reason why I don't PvP(much)?

Read the entire thread. 90% of the reasons stated. 1% of it was stated by the rabid PvPers waiting to respond to every reason ever.

I think this is why JADE QUARRY and FORT ASPENWOOD exist. It's PVP for only PVE characters.

So why doesn't anyone play them?!?!

In response to Cosyfiep and some of the others that said GW's PvP is too twitchy and tense, and that they'd prefer a more relaxed attitude, I think how much reflex or pressure is needed to play the game depends entirely on your own playing style.

If you're the kind of person who loves to blow people's heads off with midair railgun shots in Quake, and love reflex-based gameplay, then why not play an infuse monk?

If you're the kind of person who enjoys slow, tense, but tactical strategy gameplay, why not play a domination mesmer?

If you don't really want to think about too many things at once, but rather enjoy playing something simple but critical, why not try an E/mo HP bot?

There's a build for everyone, I think, if you take the chance to try something out.

Nice try, but there's no point trying to convince me otherwise.
I come from a competetive RtCW background where we ranked highly in the European ladder, and compared to that, competetive RPGs are farcical.

Hell, I knew my comment would stir up the aggressive PvP crowd, and it just serves to further my disgust with your inability to take criticism.

Oh, and your whole argument regarding builds falls apart completely as soon as you meet the opposition, as there is no way whatsoever to know what build the opposition are running.

If you want me to take you seriously, petition ANet for set build PvP, where teams have identical classes with identical skillsets and equipment.

Now THAT would be a true test of who could hit the right sequence of numbers fast enough... er, I mean "skill".

The builds are there on observer mode, and PvP in GW is only mashing keys. AMIRITE?

So why aren't you in the top 10?

Sheesh.


The ability to adapt and defeat an opponents build, regardless of whatever they are using shows you and your teams ability to adapt as well as being able to sucessfully run and maintain a flexible build.

The fact that you can't wrap your head around any concept in competition other than mirror matches shows how limited your understanding of competitive gaming in general.

And seriously, RtCW? You can't possibly be using you and your clan's status in Return to Castle Wolfenstein, of all games.

I rarely PvP, and if I do, it's Alliance Battles or Fort Aspenwood, usually to get Jadeite or Amber.

I do enjoy playing against other peoplel. I've been doing online RTS games since Warcraft II, and did rather well in several Age of Empires (I, II) tournaments. I also used to play a lot of Star Fleet Command online.

In GW, I much prefer the casual pace of PvE. I had a wonderful time, playing *with* other people this morning, doing the three Crystal Desert missions with my new Tyrian Necro. I prefer cooperative play over competitive in my RPGs.

I've done the Canthan campaign with *one* character, my Tyrian Ranger who does "everything". I didn't enjoy the fusion of PvP and PvE in Cantha.

I doubt there is anything ANet could do that would make me into a regular PvPer.

I don't PVP because there is no perceived reward in it for me. I kill him, ok. He kills me, ok. If I keep doing it, i'll get better, but its still I kill him, he kills me. In PvE I see lots of different scenery (that I can usually look at for a while without someone sneaking up to kill me. hehe) I get the perceived reward of leveling, new equipment, etc. And I also get the warm fuzzy feeling of 'beating' the game, no matter how cheesy the plot is.

Oh, as an aside, I do have a little PvP background. The MUD games I used to play had what we called CPK - Chaotic Player Kill. Areas where there were no rules and you or anyone else could do whatever it took to kill any players you saw. And if you killed them you got to take some of their items. Now THAT was some adrenaline rush excitement. :P