I want harder missions then the deep. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

08 Aug 2006 at 18:05 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Mazes and puzzles, those would rock!

Mazes, in online game? People just have to split up, and eventually they'll find a way. Mazes with monsters, and no pug will sit out the ride. I see a whole new profit for maze runners

Puzzles, in online games? People will just tell each other the answers in guild chats or forums, just like they do now with builds.

Will not work.

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

08 Aug 2006 at 18:09 - 42

Solutions, guides and walkthroughs are all available to hold your hand through every single player game as well so that you never have to think.

I suppose.. single player games will not work.

Metanoia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

08 Aug 2006 at 18:18 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Because of cookiecutter and mission knowledge, the only way to make a truly 'hard' mission would be to introduce the one thing that makes pvp a challenge, unpredictability.

Zone that changes for every group (Bnet D2 style), with changing spawns (class, position, patrol route, etc) so that groups would have to be balanced to be ready for everything.

QFT.

Break the stale monotony of PvE. Please.
It's going to be truely shameful of ANet if chapter 3 comes out and they still haven't attempted to remedy this basic design flaw - Static PvE. Perhaps, on a more sinister note, PvE is a one-trick pony by design? Meh...

Ps.

(TM)

Edit: Mazes and Puzzles could work, it all depends how they're implemented. I mean, you could have a mission where a large team had to split into smaller groups to make their way through a maze-type dungeon, activating various levers on their way to open/close gates throughout the map to allow the other groups to progess. There's no reason why such things can't be randomised, either.

BunnyMaster

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Holland

Army of Fairies

R/N

08 Aug 2006 at 19:20 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

Amen to that. Not all of us sit behind the computer for hours without a break.

......

I only play during the evening, because of my job. Some weekends can be 24/7 GW, but I also got something like a social life (ie friends that don't touch a computer outside the office). But even for me it took me only some days to get my Rit lvl 20 AND finish endgame. And Rit's are like Mesmers, only few ppl know their hidden value

And no, I don't have friends that run me, I wouldn't like that much.

The Deep was a long mission, not a hard one. Once I finally figured out what skills to bring and what groups to join (standard KD/Recall, SS, Bip etc.) it wasn't hard. It was long, sometimes even boring, but not hard.

Hard is fighting a room filled with lvl 30 monsters that do as much dmg as they can heal themselves.
Hard is fighting a boss that is healed by an NPC you can't kill, cause he's the the key-NPC for the next room.
Hard is fighting a dobbleganger team during the quest, so you can't trick them by bringing a "fake" skillbar like Ascension Mission.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

08 Aug 2006 at 19:21 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

Mazes, in online game? ---
Will not work.

As Dungeons and Dragons: Online has admirably proven. People loved it first two weeks, then, when all dungeons were mapped, people started getting run through all the content. Now they're complaining about there not being any content.

Besides who in their right mind finds mazes FUN anyway? They weren't fun in 'Zork' 30 years ago, they're no more fun now.

Same for "puzzles". Seriously. Puzzles aren't quite as horribly bad an idea as mazes, but I've dropped one too many turtles on one too many gratings to cause one too many goblins to get a toothache and open one too many gates to ever want to see a game with "puzzles" ever again.

About the most puzzly puzzles I can stomach are "find the key or pull the lever to open the door" type puzzles, and even then only if there's only one key and one lever.

Unpredictability, on the other hand, now there's the ticket. It could be done - a bit depending on how much of the mission could vary (from just monster type and placement via geography to everything including mission goals) - and would make PvE much, much, harder.

Actually I bet if the devs could pull this off, meaning cookie-cutters and walkthroughs became worthless, we'd instead have infinite numbers of threads complaining about the insane & unfair DIFFICULTY of the missions.

Personally I think it's very easy: if you spoil your own game for you, you suffer the consequences. It's not the devs job to keep you from reading spoilers or getting carried by guildies, it's your own farking responsibility.

ubermancer: you seem to confuse "physically possible" with "too easy". They're not the same thing.
Or are you seriously claiming that Four Horsemen was a boringly easy quest to do when you three-manned it?

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

08 Aug 2006 at 19:46 - 46

Here's a thought: Make a new elite mission with a small maximum party. Wall and nuke is fine for 12 member parties, but people might be forced to do something different if it were just 4 people max per party. Also, instead of making mass groups of little enemies then a single boss, have several small groups of enemies with a boss. This type of mission may make Mesmers and 'Sins very useful and challenge members to find more origional builds.

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

08 Aug 2006 at 20:07 - 47

No, I would like to see true hardcore characters, who have their own storages (So they have to find their own items) and are auto-dissabled when they die. Forcing you to start all over again, on Noob world. And when you manage to beat the game, it gets the title "Uber Leet Hardcore", and untill than you get titles along the way.
These hardcore characters should not be able to team up with "softcore" characters, who think dying is a strategy

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

08 Aug 2006 at 20:15 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

No, I would like to see true hardcore characters, who have their own storages (So they have to find their own items) and are auto-dissabled when they die. Forcing you to start all over again, on Noob world. And when you manage to beat the game, it gets the title "Uber Leet Hardcore", and untill than you get titles along the way.
These hardcore characters should not be able to team up with "softcore" characters, who think dying is a strategy

Similar in concept to the Diablo hardcore?

Interesting for sure... but is it feasible? How many "hardcore" characters would drop in a sticky fight, leaving the rest to drop or die?

Or... were you being facetious?

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

08 Aug 2006 at 20:21 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

How many "hardcore" characters would drop in a sticky fight, leaving the rest to drop or die?

[ahem]Survivor Title[/ahem]

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

08 Aug 2006 at 21:13 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

No, I would like to see true hardcore characters, who have their own storages (So they have to find their own items) and are auto-dissabled when they die.

I love that idea. Post it in Sardelac now!

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

09 Aug 2006 at 07:44 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiaotsu

You were implying that UW was hard, when you can 2-man something it isn't hard Alleji...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Screenshot of "The Four Horsemen" completed with party window open and displaying 2 people, kthx.

I feel the above point didn't come through the first time. So I'll elaborate: You can 2-man smites. If you're good, you can 2-man Escort of Souls, Unwanted Guests and Ice King. UW is bigger than that, or didn't you ever go beyond the farming areas?

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

09 Aug 2006 at 07:48 - 52

You can three-man all of UW and FoW, which technically means they aren't hard

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

09 Aug 2006 at 07:56 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can three-man all of UW and FoW, which technically means they aren't hard

If we get into technicalities, I initially only said that UW is harder than deep/urgoz. (which somebody is obviously going to argue now)

Right now, I was just trying to point out that xiaotsu would need lots of luck 55ing thround NR trappers and groups of 9 mindblades. Unless he's running a Mo/R with SB, QZ and blessed aura. Which still doesn't explain what he would do against the behemoths.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

09 Aug 2006 at 07:58 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Mazes and puzzles, those would rock!

Quoted For Truth ^_^

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

09 Aug 2006 at 08:01 - 55

Behemoths are easy for 2-man (cleared them as a me/mo tank), I won't post strategy to clear them here (can pm me ingame or on forum if you do want to know and don't want to look through old threads).

However, he would not be able to clear Planes or Finish Horsemen 2-man

Elite missions are harder than Planar missions simply because of larger groups - aggro slipups are much, much more painful in elite missions.

JiggyFly

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

So-Cal

Forsaken Wanderers [FW]

Mo/

09 Aug 2006 at 08:13 - 56

The two times I've had the most fun in Guild Wars was when Abs were first availible and the first time I fought Urgoz. I'd have to agree with what others have said, the whole feeling of every-man-for-himself semi-chaotic fights was what made it fun. Of course you could go-in with a gimmick or well-refined build, but I really liked the feeling of not knowing what was going to happen.

I mean stuff like FoW, Tombs, and now even elite missions gets dull because you learn the spawns so it turns into a well thought out well-planned waiting game, which is ok for awhile, but after a few runs it gets dull knowing exactly what is going to happen.

I think Guild Wars needs alittle bit more of the randomness/chaotic factor to keep it fresh.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

09 Aug 2006 at 08:19 - 57

Random generated maze with Greek Mythology/Medieval Garden style full with deadly enemies and even deadlier traps i.e fake entrances that will close behind you etc, and some kind of landmark in middle of maze working as a goal. Randomness would add challenge for sure, but this post should be in Sardelac forum oops

..

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

09 Aug 2006 at 08:19 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

[ahem]Survivor Title[/ahem]

Congratulations!

Did you get it by yourself or someone of higher level accompained you making sure you did not die.

PS. Characters should not be allowed to join groups higher or lower than their own level, an allowance of 2 levels (higher or lower) would be fine in my opinion.

Shadow-Hunter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Denmark

[HH] [Hax]

Mo/

09 Aug 2006 at 08:35 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Behemoths are easy for 2-man (cleared them as a me/mo tank), I won't post strategy to clear them here (can pm me ingame or on forum if you do want to know and don't want to look through old threads).

Behmoths is them Ranger enemys that use Traps and cant move ye? Cus if its them then you can like Solo some of them with a SS necro x.x ...

Hide Behind wall = no dmg. SS + Reckless Haste can outdmg their healing spring if your lucky.. And if you have a Tank then he can easyly interupt the Healing Traps O.o

~Shadow

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

09 Aug 2006 at 09:51 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Mazes and puzzles, those would rock!

I've been waiting for that forever.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

09 Aug 2006 at 10:25 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

I've been waiting for that forever.

Mazes and puzzles?!

Are you guys seriously telling me you find mazes FUN? What part of "oops, this one is a dead-end too, I have to backtrack again" is fun? 'Cause I really don't get it.
Hey, here's a thought: how about a three-dimensional maze? With curving corridors? Which will randomly change when out of view? AND your compass and map doesn't work in it? Doesn't that sound like fun?

Because it sounds like mindless tedium to me. I had all the mazes I'd ever want to see in gold box games and Dungeonmaster, and mazes SUCK.

Puzzles. Again, be careful what you wish for, you might get it. Raise your hand here everyone who feel The Deep would have been a better mission if you on a couple of occasions had two minutes to solve a Towers of Hanoi puzzle, or push 4x4 boxes around in a square with only one space free, to form a word, or the quest would fail. Thank you.

Now everyone who'd solve these puzzles by reading guildwiki or similar sites please raise your hand.
Thank you.

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

09 Aug 2006 at 11:06 - 62

Zelda-like mazes and puzzles would be nice, the hack and slash gets tedious at times.

pcredsox99

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mostly Kryta but Fissure of Woe on the weekends

Knights of the Dragon Pyre [DRGN]

W/Mo

09 Aug 2006 at 11:26 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Mazes and puzzles, those would rock!

If ANET Ever did this it would be awsome have a maze that changed so u never got the same one and have mobs or bosses spawan all over the place. Think about the elite mishes thaey tried to start a puzzle like thing with standing on the pedastuls or whatever to open the gate and if I remember in Urgoz there is what seems to be a maze or so they call it.

Overall good idea

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

09 Aug 2006 at 11:40 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I love that idea. Post it in Sardelac now!

Personally, I would say goodbye to all none-harcore characters. I love the challenge of having to thread carefully through the game, because one little mistake might be the end of all your hard work, but I don't think most GW players will be up to this. I am afraid they will burn me on a stake

You can post it for me. No need to give me credits, since it isn't exactly an unique idea. I am sure that GW has thought about it, but is looking up to the coding.

cloudbunny

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

DVD Forums (DVDF)

09 Aug 2006 at 22:43 - 65

I agree with the posts suggesting variation in spawn patterns and better AI would give the hard areas better replay value. If it is predictable it is far easier. After a couple of trips you know all spawn points and exactly what you are up against.

I can't say that any of the SF/UW/FoW/ToPK/Urzog/Deep areas was easy the first time you went there with a balanced team and no one in the party had been there before. Actually they were all pretty hard! But after 2-3 times you know all the patterens and it gets much more smooth. If you then start to use the community developed standard high efficient farming builds and strategies, there is of course not much left of the initial difficulties.

What if you landed in UW and instead of meeeting the regular Aatrax groups had to deal with 2 Aatraxes and a Mindblade spawning Dreamrider. Next time a couple of Coldfires and Charged Darknesses. Guess that might ruin the day for the majority of the 55/SS farmers, but would add a lot replay value for us non-farmers.

I'm not saying everything should be made harder, but I would like at least those late game "elite" areas to have a high degree of replay value and not be reduced to tiresome farming grinds.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Enchanted Warrior

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/Mo

09 Aug 2006 at 22:46 - 66

Take off your armor and do droks run. LOL

(Couldn't resist)

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

09 Aug 2006 at 22:52 - 67

puzzles would be cool.. would be funny if nightfall does'nt sell though- then we all login and it says GAME OVER ****FACE with a staff pic with them all mooning

Reikai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/

09 Aug 2006 at 22:56 - 68

You know what would be really cool...
making GW more Epic...

Lich, Shiro... Kanaxai, Urgoz... not very epic. Iron forgeman... EPIC!

Huge baddies, almost impossible to kill, and bested with smarts. Thats nice.

or maybe another thing...

Have one mission be a "trial by fire" type of thing, each person goes in solo (like ascension...) and depending on the class, each mission is different. These missions would be designed to test the player's skill.

For example, Ranger: Interupt 20 Giant stomps in a row in a mob of 20 Giants.

This way there would be no "cookie cutter" way to get through this mission, and therefore those who DO get past them, are "skilled." enough such that the "harder missions" as suggested, would actually be doable.

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

09 Aug 2006 at 22:59 - 69

Best mission ever: Lich, Shiro, Glint x5 each and you are 60 dp

Reikai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/

09 Aug 2006 at 23:00 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Because of cookiecutter and mission knowledge, the only way to make a truly 'hard' mission would be to introduce the one thing that makes pvp a challenge, unpredictability.

Zone that changes for every group (Bnet D2 style), with changing spawns (class, position, patrol route, etc) so that groups would have to be balanced to be ready for everything.

I've got an idea... Make them "PvP"...

what would occur is, two teams go in together, depending on the opposing side's classes, corresponding monsters will spawn.

Whenever say...the ranger on on team moves, the ranger-type-monster will move for the other team. When the ranger uses distracting shot, the monster uses distracting shot as well...

The players control "monsters" for the opposing team, while also fighting to keep themselves alive...

This way, One team will win, while the other will loose. Unpredictability, and tension to the max!

lightblade

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Etereal Guard

Me/Mo

10 Aug 2006 at 00:17 - 71

Note the title said "I want..."

This is your own personal want. Not we, nor need. So why should Anet care about it?

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

10 Aug 2006 at 01:42 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reikai

This way, One team will win, while the other will loose. Unpredictability, and tension to the max!

If people wanted to PvP they would just PvP. PvE should remain as it is, monsters will always be stupid, but randomizing spawns, group composition and patrols, as well as map structure (change the order of Urgoz rooms at random, as well as their orientation, for example), would add a little more challenge.

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

10 Aug 2006 at 08:34 - 73

I think making the AI smarter, random mobs/skill sets, professions might make things less cookie cutter and more balanced. But thats making it more like PvP. Also more mobs isnt more fun, or harder, it can be just boring. How about 1 mob in a room that can instaport to you, kill you in 2 seconds flat, and then port back into hiding. Something that would scare you to death

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

10 Aug 2006 at 08:46 - 74

/sarcasm with a touch reality

How about if Anet makes the game lag more, so you get to play it like I do.
Whenever you get surounded by a huge damage dealing mob, you lag for about 10 seconds, you get to cast one spell, you lag an other 5 second, you cast a spell again, and from there on, if you are still alive, the fight slowly speeds up.

Most suggestions will just alienate ocassional players with average computers.

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

10 Aug 2006 at 09:05 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Mazes and puzzles?!

Are you guys seriously telling me you find mazes FUN? What part of "oops, this one is a dead-end too, I have to backtrack again" is fun? 'Cause I really don't get it.
Hey, here's a thought: how about a three-dimensional maze? With curving corridors? Which will randomly change when out of view? AND your compass and map doesn't work in it? Doesn't that sound like fun?

Because it sounds like mindless tedium to me. I had all the mazes I'd ever want to see in gold box games and Dungeonmaster, and mazes SUCK.

Puzzles. Again, be careful what you wish for, you might get it. Raise your hand here everyone who feel The Deep would have been a better mission if you on a couple of occasions had two minutes to solve a Towers of Hanoi puzzle, or push 4x4 boxes around in a square with only one space free, to form a word, or the quest would fail. Thank you.

Now everyone who'd solve these puzzles by reading guildwiki or similar sites please raise your hand.
Thank you.

You have absolutely no imagination whatsoever.

It won't hurt you if they threw a puzzle in your path every so often RATHER than fighting glitchy lvl 28 mobs all day everyday. It would actually make some ppl use BRAIN power for once in their Guild Wars lifetime.

Anet drone 1: "We gave him infinite recovery! Oooooooh"
Anet drone 2: "They will never win"
Player: "We will just use this and this"

-5 mins later-

Player: "This mission sucks, the same thing over and over, just like <insert elite area here>"

Rinse and Repeat.

Lvl28 invincimobs can only entertain for so long.

AND if not Puzzles, then what? PvP? Boring. Players are looking for these areas to be unique and epic. Not defeat lvl 28s all day hoping for a drop.

bam23

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

10 Aug 2006 at 09:10 - 76

I'm all for huge epic boss battles.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

10 Aug 2006 at 09:17 - 77

And what comes to the puzzle aspect, I don't believe many would spoil the fun by reading walkthroughs from guildwiki straight away. I mean come on what's the fun with that

, or am I being too naive about that.

Forgot to mention,

as many have already mentioned, to make things harder, putting another 100 mob of 28lvl kirbys is easy solution. I'm voting for the 'thinking man's game' side myself. Areas where surroundings itselves are a problem to solve, enemy that requires also something else than massive dmg (so that there could be even greater variety of skills), and list goes on..
Guild Wars has still so much potential to give us great experiences.

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

10 Aug 2006 at 10:40 - 78

I don't see th point in puzzles in an online game as this, I mean even activating the stupid portals in prophecies was more a pain in the but than anything else.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

10 Aug 2006 at 11:34 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

I don't see th point in puzzles in an online game as this, I mean even activating the stupid portals in prophecies was more a pain in the but than anything else.

The definition & quality of puzzle plays important role here. I myself wouldn't consider opening Crystal Desert portals nowhere near the definition of a real puzzles.

It doesn't have to be concrete puzzle. It can be for example a riddle from some old man that leads to a hidden oasis in the middle of huge desert or whatever.

I don't see it impossible to add some thinking to the gameplay even if it's an online roleplaying game that has strong PvP focus. (of course this game already has some)

These kind of things certainly would give some spice to many players gaming experience.

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

10 Aug 2006 at 11:44 - 80

I don't own Factions so I did not play the mission but from what I read here its pretty tough. No I don't want harder missions. I want more intelligent missions and bonus levels. And playable for everyone, so including the solo PvE player who goes alone or with henchies. For all levels.

Oblivion is a good example of how I would like missions and levels to be desigend: A huge variation in objectives and ways to complete the missions. In a range from easy to very hard.

Make missions more individual and profession related, e.g. by forcing the usage of certain skills. Not by endless aggroing but by intelligent figuring what ingredients you need to complete the mission. e.g. a Ranger Mission that requires you to bring a certain pet which has the abillity to search for a lost object, or a Monk mission where you have to deal with disenchantments and where your objective only can be reached by using... an enchantment.

More variation, more individuallity, more intelligent... Get rid of the concept of missions filled with hordes of enemies and aggoing!