FOW Abuse

Let me ask one simple question. On this 8 man team, you mean to tell me that everyone is a skilled player and deserve FOW if they complete these missions. Only one problem here, even if they are not paying for a guided service (which really would become all the rage), lots of people do not contribute to winning teams at times. It sounds to me like you think everything is unjustified, hard to earn titles and armor. I would like to see you cap all 180 elites like I did with my monk, then tell me it means nothing. One last thing, earning the materials for FOW armor is not that difficult really for a skilled player or a skilled trader. FOW armor is nothing more than a gold sink...and a pretty good one at that.

can't be bothered reading through all the posts so not sure if anyone has already proposed something similar, but here's a suggestion for making it a bit more challenging to get FoW armour:

make the quests which lead to the forgemaster only available after all the other quests in FoW have been completed.

One word...IWAY.

Anyway, ON TOPIC...doesn't the proposal by the OP sound a lot like Factions? Where the end game rewards can be green weapons and 15k armor? Yeah, you need the mats for it, but you still have to complete the game to have access to it.

No, he wants it to have no cost other than the time to do a couple of missions. I think he forgot about the Divine Path armor, and that you must complete the game to have access to it.

Didnt get my FoW armor for status, got It cause I liked the way it looked.

as for the topic, you can come up with all the crazy ways you want to get an armor, but no matter what you do, some one will find a way to abuse it

Where is the problem?
I have just as good equipment as someone that goes on ebay and buy gold.





oh yea, thats right..their weapon is sparkling and mine is not. woohooo... .. .. .

Very True

I once had to go AFK on the last mission due to real life, when i came back the mission was complete and i had masters.

This is what i mean by skill is not required, its not broken, but simply due to its nature it is easily abused.

I don't have a problem with FoW-armour whatsoever at the moment, but if they would add something along the lines of the OP's idea, I wouldn't mind. Though I want those missions/quests to be 'short'. I don't think it shows skill you can be online for 5 hours non-stop to finish all the FoW quests at once.
As long as the missions/quests only take half an hour to an hour, it's ok with me.
I would prefer other updates though..

Yup, me too. I didn't plan on getting FoW for any of my characters. But after completing the game I had nothing to do. I switched to playing NWN but couldn't get into it and returned to GW. Getting FoW armour was just one of those things to do to occupy myself with. FoW has no benefits over a 1.5K armour, and to an extent not even looks. That is, some (IMO) FoW and 15K look more ugly than their 1.5K variant. When I see others wearing FoW or 15K armour, I don't see them as elite or some kind of status. I may just think "Ooooh, that's a pretty outfit!".

Well... maybe not while being shocked by a monkey...

I find threads like this very funny. First let me thank you for the good laugh.
So after reading all of this thread I find myself wondering one thing...
How hard is it to really understand this game? There is NOTHING in the game that shows how good you are except the way you play. Armor is looks and nothing more. FoW armor is the same as droks armor just alot more expensive. And as for the suggestion of a string of missions to get armor.. well that is a pretty lame idea and let me explain why. There are 2 missions in factions called "ELITE missions" and the party size for these missions are 12 people. There is a build right on this very site for a 3 man team that can beat one of these so called "ELITE" missions, that leaves 9 open slots that they could drag less skilled players along for a fee so they have a chance to get that green at the end.
Basicly what I am saying here is this, If you want to have a status symbol let it be the way you play, not something you wear or hold. The only thing in this game that can not be bought on ebay is SKILL. Want to impress someone, show your skill. Everything else is meaningless.

Wow. Very well said. Nothing makes you feel better in game than having your team compliment you on your gameplay. It doesn't matter if it's PvE or PvP, having your team's respect is the highest status you can get in the game.

Are you one of those selling the FoW armour on e-bay? Sounds to me like you want to give the e-bayers a chance to raise there prices by making it harder.

The reason your ideas are getting flamed and you are getting flamed by some people Doomslay, is because some people will disagree with you that Obsidian armor should mean ANYTHING.

To think that armor in THIS game means anything "elite" is, imo delusional.

The things that make me feel like a good player. Those that mark me. Are my actions, my successes, outside anything anyone could ever take away or depreciate.

Solo monking an all assassin team and surviving ^_^

Currently, Luxon and Kurzick armors require Jadeite and Amber. These can be obtained in a number of ways. One of these ways is from exchanging faction points earnt in Fort Aspenwood.

Already leechers are abusing this current system. If it isn't improved to only reward those who actively participate, then you'll just end up with: 'New l33t armor' = leecher.

I don't do much PvPing, so I don't know if leeching for Balthazar faction points is as common in RA, TA, etc.


I personally see the high end armors as nothing more than just eye candy. It doesn't reflect a persons skill or ability. I perfer to judge those from their actions and how they play. You can tell a lot more from the way they conduct themselves and interact with others than you can from what they are wearing.

Stop thinking FoW = skill. It does not show it (anymore). Buy it for as moneysink.

I appreciate the OP's worry about people that break the rules (Ebay) getting armor that suggests they're really good. There's just one problem with that, and don't take this as an insult, flame etc...

Not many people believe that armor is a status symbol anymore.

FoW armor was never meant to be a status symbol, merely a goldsink and a way to show wealth. However, people began to regard those who could afford FoW armor as those of a higher status, as they're much richer than the average player and therefore must have been REALLY good in order to get the money. However, this is no longer true, as Ebay, farming, etc. made the armor much easier to get. I'm not saying it's easy to get, but easy enough that it's not really a status symbol.

Now that we've established that armor isn't a status symbol, we can say there isn't a problem with the current FoW armor. Not many people will look at someone in FoW armor and say "Hey I'm gonna invite him just cuz he has FoW armor and so must be better than those who don't" or something to that extent. This is especially true in PvP, but I'm not gonna get into that as this thread is about PvE problems.

In other words, the last paragraph said that people won't be invited to a group based on their armor. Which is true, for the most part.

Now, the OP wanted to make this new armor because of people exploiting and showing their "skill" through FoW armor, when they could've just Ebayed, got donations from their guild, scammed, etc. This then causes the problem of people with little skill being invited because they're supposed to have great skill.

However, this is not a problem, because it doesn't happen. People aren't invited solely-based on their armor. The only real way to show skill is to play and have people see you play. For PvP, rank is more of a time-invested indicator, but then again, the more time you invest, the better you're likely to get. For PvE, the only true way to show skill anymore is to actually play and show it through playing.

To sum up everything I just said...

The OP wanted to instate a system that would solve the problem of "noobs" being thought to have more skill than they do because of their armor. With some tweaks, the system may have worked, but it would still be exploited one way or the other. The good news, however, is that the problem the OP wanted to solve has actually been solved, by the people who caused it in the first place. As more "noobs" began to get FoW armor, it began to stop representing skill. There may have been a problem back in the past, but there isn't any longer. So while I respect your desire to solve a problem, OP, unfortunately this problem's already been solved.

Oh come on, many people strive for the elite armors as a way to show off their accomplishments. Just because some people game the system with afking or ebaying doesn't mean the rest of us don't want to earn the rewards and take pride in showing them off.

So I agree with the OP that it is good to put elite armor in places that take some skill to get to. I loved how they put armorers on the Divine Path in Factions. If I designed Factions, I would have made Urgoz and the Deep available to everyone, but put the 15K Kurzick and Luxon crafters at the end of them. It would make the armor that much more special, and it would make beating those missions that much more special too.

I want challenges, and ways to show off my successes, and I really like the OP's proposal. I agree with most everyone else that you'll never be able to evaluate a player's skill just by looking at their armor, but so what?

guys... uhh..

what's fow armor...?

Go and get the "Kind of a Big Deal" title.

That ,in my opinion, is far better accomplishment than some shitty looking armor.

This is were anet can learn soemthing from Runescape.

On runescape there is this so aclled God fire cape. it cannor be bought and is very very hard to earn. 1-126 lvls n ruenscape. tog et it u need ruffly lvl 103 or higher to beablet o earn it. it is a very difficult project to earn it aswell. this is soemthing ahrdly any players ahve and is a true simble of respect. this is something needed in gw. like the black widow it use to mean soemthing but is now nothing. same as fissure.

This post made Fissure armor worth almost nothing.

From my point of view, they've already moved toward this style.

Factions
Shiro

Amulet of the mists for your free item and you can buy armor there that you can't get elsewhere. Personally, I don't think that armor looks very good, but it is a similar series of events as what you've suggested, and a model I hope they keep. I wouldn't mind similar rewards for things like the Titan's Quests or other upper level missions that you have to wait for an hour to find a group for. Giving some sort of bonus area to spark people's interest seems to work.

thats 2 easy.far toe asy and thats why endgame weapons are some of the cheapest.

FoW armor is a joke now.

I agree in the sense that the leet missions/areas probably should have some sort of reward. I also agree they need to come up some uber leet set of mission/quests that have some variation each trip, to avoid the *typical build* to complete. I still also feel that there should be some uber leet weapons and armors floating around as well. A decent place to start to put this sort of reward would be afer completing the "kind of big deal" title. Regardless, i think it's good that a-net is trying to keep up with the rewards system in a balanced way, although pure a balanced game would be as boring as stairing at a wall. There's no winners or losers in balanced.

Honestly though many people can play GW for days on end and not even know a darn things about how even half their skills work. This is really why people in HA, TA, etc. get pissed about the cookie cutter spike builds. "press this button on 3" just isn't skill beyond what a monkey can do. This is one of the main reasons I enjoy PVE more, each area has something a little different and sometimes different enough to justify a build to be entirely reworked. It's also why i think AB's are so popular with the pve crowds.

I think the 15k Canthan/Exotic/Imperial armour at the end of the factions storyline is the nearest thing to what the OP is talking about.

Anything added that is "elite" will be farmed, there isnt anything in the game that cant be purchassed off ebay, or purchassed via ebay gold, but if you add something that cant be sold on ebay, people will just pay other people ebay gold for getting it for them. I think rank was supposed to be something that cant be abused, but i see people paying 5k per fame all over the place.

As Avarre said, people notice you as a player for being skilled, rather than the armor your wearing.

Eh, that's a little strong. There are people that earned it. But I've give you that it doesn't have the status it used to.

Interesting ideas, although I think most FOW armor just isn't worth it, personally. But it's not my business how someone wants to spend their gold.

How about placing an armor merchant at the end of places like the Deep or Urgoz's Warren, I wonder?

Ok, I agree with you 100% that skill=status, but if a guy with 1.5k armor beats another guy with fow armor, that really doesn't mean anything since FoW armor doesn't give you any advantage in a battle.


And I also agree with you woody. I'm tired of players calling fow wearers Ebayers. I know that some players may have E-bayed, but I'm sure that most fow wearers have actually worked hard for it and not resorting to E-baying, I mean, there're actually plenty of millionaires in guild wars.

Still, there are too many titles that you can simply buy. Chests, ID golds, Drunk...and lucky/unlucky.

Seems to me that the OP wants armor to suddenly become something besides an accessory, he wants armor to be equivalent to a title. "Look at my leet look, I must be godly." "Respect Mah Authoritah!".

His concept of a very difficult boss at the end of a series of increasingly difficult trials seems very close to WoW and their top level armors. You can't get the top armor (and be seen wearing it) without spending a ton of time and man hours to get there.

Someday, an Anet developer will come up with an area/quest that can only ever be completed by a full 8 person team AND will stand the test of time as folks try to make it with one less person. When that happens, (I'll be amazed), then you'll truly have a quest reward that shows a massive challenge was overcome. Do I need a spiffy set of kneepads to show that I can do it? Not really. The only upside to an armor reward is that its not marketable. You can sell Shiro's amulet, you can't sell armor.

While the idea of a Tyrian Shoulders and then a Canthan Shin Guard and then a Elonian Wrist Wrap does sound appealing, I don't think it will ever lead to me looking at someone in game and going "oh gosh they're awesome" as much as seeing a name I recognize and respect.

That's easy, make it like the Deep where 6 ppl have to stand on those platforms to open a gate. Except this time you have 11 ppl staning on each platform while only 1 gets through the gate to pull a lever to leave the gate permanently open

Armor doesnt show your 'eliteness' .....doesnt matter what kind it is, with the new cantha armors that have all the stats (plus a few new ones) you can have just about any armor now------its all about looks now, not elite-ism.

You need something else to show that.....OP if you dont like the titles, come up with one that you think will show off this 'elite-ism' you need to show to the noobs.....like 15million exp or 10,000,000 quests completed.....armor wont do it.
However, someone has already mentioned that no matter what you come up with someone else will find away around it (ahem, hackers do it everyday)...

Sorry no suggestions for the armor.....try showing off something else then.


(personally I think fow armor is butt ugly so I never even tried to get it....only 1 of my characters even likes 1 piece of it and she is a mesmer with about a 5% of getting into a group to armor run, I have better things in game to do with my time than that)

Is it really so wrong for people to want something to strive for and then take a little pride in showing it off?

No, by all means play as you like.
But complaining about that the same item should mean something ..when it actually doesnt. Thats where it became ridicules.

Do you think about others? Think how hard it would be for Anet to re create FoW. What would Ectos and Shards be useful for then?!? Having that armor would not be a ultimate status symbol. I am sure by all means this is a rant and you dont have enough money to buy FoW armor but you want it. Go ahead and ban me but im serious people these days( Not meaning kids because i would be considered one myself) are complaning way too much and taking this game too seriously. Are people going to know you in real life for something you did in a game? Of course not. So i think a mod should close this thread.

Ultimate Status Symbol= Playing with me, which would be a one in a life time chance.

I know people have fairly earned their armor, I remember back in the day when friends would spend countless trips in UW collecting ectos for their sets but; It's sad to know that the majority of people who have piles of gold and FoW armor spent rl money to get it.

Ok, since when has armor shown how "elite" you are? Why does it matter? It isn't like 15k or 1.5k armor makes a difference. Some people just play and armor doesn't really matter. Some people just want their character to look good/cool so they buy what armor they personaly like it could be 1.5k armor or 15k armor. Then there is the people that want to be the best, Oh let's go make "1337 armor" and make it really hard to get so n00bs can't get it. I'm so 1337 because I have special armor. Well right there you turn into a noob yourself. If you are upset because you want to be the 1337est armor and see someone that you think is a n00b that has it and get upset quit GW.

Ahh I could ramble for hours. I'm sorry you are so upset that some people that aren't as good as you have what you consider '1337" armor.