If you have ever been or had a war on your team read this

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

11 Aug 2006 at 20:33 - 1

MercenaryKnight

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2006

Wolf of Shadows [WoS]

11 Aug 2006 at 20:49 - 2

In pve, tanking is basically all a lie. No group I have ever been in lets the warrior go in and get aggro before getting into aggro range. All the warrior does basically is stand in melee range and attack.

That is why warriors are mainly using 2-3 defensive skills and all attack skills.

Livingston

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Edge of the World

[L] [GET]

11 Aug 2006 at 20:55 - 3

Oooh I think this going to be an interesting thread.

Puts on shades and gets some popcorn.

Livingston

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

11 Aug 2006 at 20:58 - 4

Hmmm....

Perhaps you have not experienced the "kamakazi"/"I'm invincible" warrior. I've seen them, they recklessly run into the fray and aggro everything insight and because they have mending on, that and healing breeze will take care of any damage they suffer. They run away from their party monks, then complain when they die. As if they were surprised that they could die, or that the monk didn't heal them.

You believe that Warriors tank, monks heal, and elementalists do the damage. So Rangers, Necromancers, Ritualists, Assassins, and Mesmers only help out.

Granted, that may not be exactly what you are saying, but that's what I get out of it. Anyway, Warriors do make great tanks, don't get me wrong. Nuking, usually indicates AoE, which means monsters will scatter from the warrior like he/she has the plague. Some monsters will then attack the nuker. How can you tank something that isn't interested in you anymore? A Tank is the front line, and must stay there with others in the back (away from any monster in their aggro circle).

Weapons are there to do damage, skills are their to augment that damage. Strength, the primary attribute of a Warrior allows even more damage to be distributed. Warriors do great damage on a 1v1 scale, Elementalists do great damage on a 1vX scale.

Not all good skills require adrenaline, some do require energy.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

11 Aug 2006 at 21:03 - 5

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself.

There I'm tanking. (Pumps sword to 16) And now I'm dealing damage too.

Also, Live Vicariously will return more health a second than Mending were you to spec Mending to +3.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

11 Aug 2006 at 21:12 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Dolyak Signet + Watch Yourself.

There I'm tanking. (Pumps sword to 16) And now I'm dealing damage too. Something so simple, yet so many don't understand...

Just because you are meant to soak up damage in NO WAY excuses you from not dealing damage. Warriors have the best, most consistant and easily maintained DPS in the game. PvP and PvE have more in common than people realize... It's just that PvE is more forgiving.

Warriors should be dealing damage, or they are just dead weight. The faster you kill things in PvE the better. That's less damage you have to heal later, that's less damage you have to prevent, that's less energy you have to expend to keep up, etc. Ele's alone are not going to kill things fast enough. Tanking requires, at most, two or three skills to do it just as effecitively as an entire skillbar devoted to the same damn purpose. Warriors are built to kill things, and they excel at killing things. EVERYTHING else is meant to 1.) Aid warriors in killing things 2.) prevent things from killing you 3.) aid others in preventing things from killing you.

Besides, how many war's do you think we would win, if our tanks didn't have big freaking guns on them?

Mr.H.Mishima

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Summit of Human Evolution

11 Aug 2006 at 21:19 - 7

Tank + damage dealing:

Here is the core to damage dealing as a tank:

Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Gladiator's Defense

Here is what you use to kill squishies:

Sever Artery
Standing Slash

Protection from everything:

Shield Stance
Dolyak Signet

Help the Monk out once in a while:

Healing Signet

Strength at 14
Sword at 12
Tactics at 13

Sentinel's Armor
Superior Vigor
Superior Absorb
Superior Tactics
Superior Strength
Minor Sword

+5 energy Zealous Sword
-2/-3 Shield

I personally don't understand why you would even waste your points on a secondary profession.

Mending is crap. In the higher level area's it gets stripped, or worse. Healing Sig at 16 Tactics is +159. I too used to believe Mending was the be all/end all. Try some build without it and see.

If it wasn't for the Str req for Sentinels, I'd leave Strength empty and pump sword to 15 and Tactics to 16.

I run this build to farm just about anywhere. It works suprisingly well in a team as well. For example, in the Deep, my 3 man team cleared our room and most of the center room without assistance. I held aggro and destroyed the carps. Kanaxi's Aspects suck the pain from this build. Earth Ele and Monk supported me.

Legendary Shiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

11 Aug 2006 at 21:55 - 8

I think this post is quite funny.

Warriors aren't supposed to do damage? It's all the nukers job? And all the monk does is heal? Yes, a warrior is supposed to "tank" but apparently you believe that they should have an 8 skill bar devoted to soley tanking. That's ludacris.

As ractoth said (basically the king of w/x ) d sig + watch yourself would easily be considered tanking. It doesn't seem like you consider that tanking though.

There are so many things to say about this, but I just don't have the time.

Cyprus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

LA, California

None

Mo/Me

12 Aug 2006 at 00:11 - 9

If you firmly belive that warriors have no purpose as damage dealers and only as tanks, come up with a build that utilizes eight tanking skills instead of only a suggested two or three. If you can't and only two or three seem to ever be used, why wouldn't you put some attack skills that can actually be useful instead?

It seems the choice is obvious.

Choose between a warrior who can survive easily and a warrior who can survive slightly less or as easily and has some decent dps to boot.

i Valinor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

victoria

E/R

12 Aug 2006 at 04:18 - 10

a good defense in a great offense.

as i warrior i have never been bitched at for not dealing enough damage, so i dont really know what to tell you but all my war builds have 3-4 defensive skill and 3-4 offensive give or take a rez sig. i mean its all about balance. if you can make it so you can take all the damage and other party members arnt getting attacked great, but if your being ignored (as i am whenever i take glads defense and repostie) the best thing you can do is kill whats attacking your soft targets as fast as possible.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Aug 2006 at 05:14 - 11

Str 10
Sword/Axe/Hammer 16
Tactics 11

Dolyak Signet
Watch Yourself
Healing Signet
Attack
Attack
Attack
Attack
Rez

Rera

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

12 Aug 2006 at 05:51 - 12

I like this better:

interrupt
interrupt
ias
attack
attack
attack
attack
res

or

ias
attack
attack
attack
attack
attack
attack
res

There are only a handful of areas in the game where you will actually need defensive skills to tank effectively (for example, any area with large groups of Shiro'ken). Feel free to go full offense otherwise.

I'm a big fan of Dolyak Sig, but the speed penalty becomes a serious liability in most PUGs. If you can't hold aggro, because either you or your group is incompetent, you need to be able to rush monsters down, and you can't do that crawling. I think the most practical defensive skills are probably "Watch Yourself!" and "Shields Up!". The latter has the added advantage of making it more difficult for enemy rangers to interrupt your casters, which is particularly important in areas that feature Broadhead Arrow and Concussion Shot.

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

12 Aug 2006 at 06:25 - 13

omg what have i done...

ubermancer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]

12 Aug 2006 at 06:44 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Bob Whills

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

12 Aug 2006 at 06:51 - 15

Hammers are fun, and knockdowns are good damage mitigation.
However lately ive been running the succor + adren build in pugs. Works well because many pug monks lack adequate energy management. Also you can get some decent dps.

Normal build
10~ str
16 Axe/Sword
9~ tac

rez, succor, dolyak sig, bonetties (or watch yourself, rush, etc)

then for swords: dragon slash, gash, sever, and galraths

or for axes: evicerate, executioners, penetrating, penetrating

Dawns Tide

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

[BOTO]

W/A

12 Aug 2006 at 13:31 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Ismoke

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Fullerton, Ca.

CDXX/THE420TH.COM

Mo/Me

12 Aug 2006 at 16:29 - 17

a mesmer telling warriors how to be a warrior! Thats ITs eureka !

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

12 Aug 2006 at 17:48 - 18

Warriors are the single greatest source of damage in the game, looking at damage done to a single target.

Warriors deal even more, with an attack speed increase like Frenzy or Tiger's Fury.

Warriors deal even more again with actual attack skills.

The simple fact is that the only thing that makes Elementalists attractive in PvE is monsters bunching up. In areas where you have fewer monsters, or monsters that wont bunch up, a Warrior would be a much more effective killer.

People are stuck with the presumption that Warriors can't do anything but tank, and have been for a long time. Elementalists have been advertised since day one as the main damage dealers, but it quite simply isn't the case in most situations.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Aug 2006 at 18:08 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

People are stuck with the presumption that Warriors can't do anything but tank, and have been for a long time. Elementalists have been advertised since day one as the main damage dealers, but it quite simply isn't the case in most situations. People who think warriors can only tank havent PvP'd much. Shock Warrior can deal a massive amount of damage in less then 5 seconds.

Stank Tank

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Jedi Elites

W/Mo

12 Aug 2006 at 22:35 - 20

Since the AOE nerf my Ele is for storage.

Cracko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

12 Aug 2006 at 22:45 - 21

Warriors do Single damage, but more

Elementalists do Multi damage, but less

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

12 Aug 2006 at 23:10 - 22

Quote:

I cant believe how many people equate warriors with damage dealing. Why do so many people think this?

Warriors are frontline - thus they need high armour; however, just because they're frontline doesn't mean they should ONLY tank. I mean, sure an ele (or even mesmer) does damage but if you say put a mesmer to frontline, he dies VERY fast. They are going to be hitting on the monks (be it PVP or PVE) and they will need to do SOME damage. Take PVP for example (since it's not so needed in PVE). Sure, you may have your tanking warrior but the other warrior is going to be killing things fast.

A decent monk will heal you fine in PVE, so you might as well have the warrior doing more damage. Why? Less time! I don't want to sit there bored (tankers perspective).

Quote:

Warriors are supposed to tank. TANK.

ROFL.

Quote: Why do you think anet gave us stronger armour, shields, and defencive skills? They're frontline. Oh, sorry to break it to you buddy but pretty much EVERY class has defensive skills. Look at mesmers - heard of distortion?

Ele - Ward Against Melee isn't defensive to you?

Quote: In my view, it is perfect for a tanker. You have constant healing Exactly, you hit the nail RIGHT on the head... At the start of the sentence, IN YOUR VIEW. Rofl.

Quote: You might say "if were not supposed to do damage, why does anet give us three different weapon options?" Ill tell you why. Think about it. All weapon skills arent just about damage dealing. we have knock downs, bleeding, crippling. These skills are able to give an opening to your other party members to do damage. And about mending. Wariors should use mending while fighting. yes i said it. I always have mending on my skill bar. ALWAYS. I know that it takes up one pip of regen. so? Good warriors use adrenaline. It's great until you get hit with desecrate enchant, defile enchant and then drain enchant. Rofl.

Quote:

Doylak signet- no knockdowns, and added armour. Good for PVE, for PVP someone can just avoid you yes?

Quote:

So people, stop letting your eles slack off Hypocrite. Same applies to your idea, you're letting the monks slack off. I mean, for all your million defensive skills. A monk can just heal seed you and it works just as well, LoL.

I use weapon sets for icy/vamp/zealous etc.

The fact you comment on "good warrior" and you sound like a PVE only player (if you're PVP then god help you) really says quite a bit x.x.

Quote:

I personally don't understand why you would even waste your points on a secondary profession. Look at the skills, use your head a little x.x.

It is no wonder wammos are so bad, they're closed minded and not willing to learn

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

13 Aug 2006 at 03:51 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ismoke

a mesmer telling warriors how to be a warrior! Thats ITs eureka ! ok buddy thats just my tag. I do have a warrior, and a very sucesseful one.

In this post, i should have posted whether i meant pvp or pve in tanking. I meant pve. In pvp, real people play and do not mob around the first thing in their view (exept a monk). In pve, you can attract a mob of enemies and let them deal the damage to you so your teamamtes dont have to. My point is, in pve, warriors should not be so concentrated on dealing the damage. Every caster has been attacked multiple times,a nd it gets annyoying. Also, a good warrior will not aggro every enemie in sight.

Rera

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Aug 2006 at 05:49 - 24

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

13 Aug 2006 at 07:06 - 25

The whole tanking idea is inane, it's simply a method to allow bad groups to survive long enough to kill something. If you really want to move quickly through the enemy run four warriors with Tiger's Fury and "To The Limit!", backed up by an orders necro and a three man defensive line of your choice. Combat will generally be over before a nuker would get off his first meteor shower hit (8s after he starts casting). Of course this assumes you actually have monks and warriors who know what they are doing, as opposed to gimped whammos with mending. However if you get people who know how to do this, it's obscene how quickly you can roll through PVE.

kotumaru

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Murrieta, CA

Royal Order of Ascalon

W/Mo

13 Aug 2006 at 09:01 - 26

Yeah... I am starting to notice that people really don't care at all about letting a War tank. Even the Monk's try to outrun me to the next mob pack.

Balthz

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

holy Hand Gernade

W/Mo

13 Aug 2006 at 19:36 - 27

in pve the warriors cant have all 8 skills devoted to tanking otherwise the dmg from the other party emembers would the pull the agro off the warriors and therefore he is useless. look in pvp warriors almost never use defense skills but still ppl dont spike them instead they go for mesmers or necros the ones inpeeding the oposing teams dmg. a simple healing seed can made a frenzy using gladiators armor warrior a perfect tank.

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

14 Aug 2006 at 08:52 - 28

Read this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10003516
'nuff said.

Oh, and this is coming from someone named "Mesmer in Need" and who says always has Mending on them. >.>

After you read that thread, someone close this one.

zadinos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

W/N

14 Aug 2006 at 09:34 - 29

Which skills and weapons i use with my warrior depends on situations.
If you are xp warrior you know what you need and what works best. In some q or maps you need hammer in some axe an in some sword. You need to know what you are up againts. For example its no meening to take enhanchments like mending or healing hands with you if you are facing necros with Strip Enhanchment or mesmers with Shatter Enhanchment. Before you decide with skills you are going to use think of the foes what skills they use and ofcourse bosses.
Know your enemy!!

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

14 Aug 2006 at 09:36 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadinos

Mystic_Karnas

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Teh masters

15 Aug 2006 at 00:57 - 31

Okay, I frequent FoW as a BiP necro, and, no matter what happens, even if the warrior has a whole group tied up and I'm way in the back, an enemy melee unit makes a bee-line to me. So, I depend on the warrior to either kill it, or do enough damage to distract, if he's a pure tank...bad things happen. I mean, sure, one stance tank is nice, but with at least one warrior able to deal some good damage, my life was made so much easier without havng to worry about running back and forth, biPing, keeping defenses up, and being chased by some stupid berserker. Plus, the bodies fall faster, so I have a consistant energy source coming in, but with warriors that can only tank, my energy source isn't nearly as consistant.

My point is this, Warriors that can both deal damage and take it are a much better asset to the team than a warrior who does no damage, but recieves it real well. Plus, warriors are less likely to take aggro with low AL casters and a 105 BiP running around. This applies for MOST situations in my opinion, I'm just using fissure as an example.

Doomlord_Slayermann

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Chicago IL

Dark Phoenix Risin [DPR]

W/P

15 Aug 2006 at 15:38 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

After you read that thread, someone close this one. Indeed, there is no reason to be discussing an ignorant viewpoint when we can discuss an enlightened one instead.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Leather Rebels, (LR)

17 Aug 2006 at 19:33 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

@Mesmer in Need:
You're completely missing the point. You want warriors to tank, that's fine, but warriors don't need defensive skills to tank. A warrior with 0 in all attributes and an empty skillbar works fine if all you want is a tank. So if a warrior functions fine as a tank just by standing there, you can devote all of a warrior's attributes and skills towards damage-dealing.

As for casters being attacked, 99% of the time it's your own fault. Whenever I PUG, I invariably have casters either walking in front of me, or breathing down my neck when I draw aggro. Neither placement is equivalent to "GET THE **** BACK", which is where casters need to be. I relate to this paragraph in such a really really scary close way. I have these nukers or something that are running out before me, before I can even lock agro, trieing their nukes before I can even engage the Shadow Group or etc, its like I will have to start bringing sprint with me next time I group pug PvE in order to beat the squishies to the enemy.

Sir fredman

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Houston, Texas

I American Guild I [iAi]

17 Aug 2006 at 20:15 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

omg what have i done...

lol mesme in need you just made people telling build descriptions of warriors what warriors are supposed to do....thats what you have done =)

Livingston

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Edge of the World

[L] [GET]

17 Aug 2006 at 22:12 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

Oooh I think this going to be an interesting thread.

Puts on shades and gets some popcorn.

Livingston *Watches the fireworks*

Good thing I brought my sunnies.

Livingston

sgtclarity

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

I Can Break These C[uffs]

18 Aug 2006 at 02:04 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hells Last Survivor

Tank + damage dealing:

Here is the core to damage dealing as a tank:

Riposte
Deadly Riposte
Gladiator's Defense

. I stopped reading here, since when is a reactionary build DPS? If they don't attack you (which is very common with GW's sporadic agro "system") your DPS goes to rockbottom.

Mera Regila

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

In The Deep

R/A

18 Aug 2006 at 02:31 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

I cant believe how many people equate warriors with damage dealing. Why do so many people think this? Eles are supposed to do damage dealing. Not warriors. Warriors are supposed to tank. TANK. Why do you think anet gave us stronger armour, shields, and defencive skills? To nuke? I recently posted on a thread about how people hate mending, and people think a warrio using mending is a waste of energy. In my view, it is perfect for a tanker. You have constant healing, and if you are concentrated on tanking you dont have to worry about your energy. You might say "if were not supposed to do damage, why does anet give us three different weapon options?" Ill tell you why. Think about it. All weapon skills arent just about damage dealing. we have knock downs, bleeding, crippling. These skills are able to give an opening to your other party members to do damage. And about mending. Wariors should use mending while fighting. yes i said it. I always have mending on my skill bar. ALWAYS. I know that it takes up one pip of regen. so? Good warriors use adrenaline. I know we only have a few signets, but they are really great. Healing signet- over 100 health from 1 heal. Doylak signet- no knockdowns, and added armour. So people, stop letting your eles slack off, and let them attack. Let your warriors tank. ... Why don't you read the thread "Why nuking sucks" and get back to me with this. Nukers can brag a HELL of a lot sometimes, this is one of those times. I remember another instance, farming rotscale on my tank. The three nukers on our team were dropping like flies, wheras i hardly needed healing, and didnt die once. THEN they had the nerve to suggest it was them doing all the damage. They mixed FIRE STORM with meteor shower, making rotscale agro panic out of the shower. Inexperianced nukers like that should be banned.

You expect tanks to sit there doing nothing? When they could be delivering heavy DPS to their targets?

The point is Nuker DPS simply can't compare with Hammer and Axe DPS. One of these reasons is that they don't attack fast enough, must give up large amounts of energy for their high damaging attacks, and have exhaustion which takes away base energy, making them less effective, all of this mixed with the fact that eles have no deep wound. Some attacks and combos that do FAR more dmg than nukers here:

Hammer: Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Fierce Blow, Irresistable Blow. This combo will either kill or seriously maim your target, especailly if it's a caster.

Axe: Eviscerate, Axe Rake, Bull's Strike. Nuker DPS cant compare with this.

Final conclusion. Don't diss Warriors if you don't have any facts to base your arguments on. Eles can't compare with their damage anywhere, the only plus about them is AoE in PvE, which isn't even as good as SS+Reckless Haste.

Hmm... why doesn't it come as a suprise you are a mending W/Mo? Mending is PATHETIC, and pathetic is all it is. Live Vicariously is a better enchant, always will be. Three pips of health regen is totally irrelevent, as you will take more damage around 6 per hit, which is all mending can heal. Healing Signet is way better than Mending, so is Live Vicariously. Lose the mending man, it's not a good skill.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

18 Aug 2006 at 02:33 - 38

I hate people that say TANK. FFS where do you see in the GW manual : Warrior's stand there and take the damage while everyone else beats the shit out of the mobs?

Plus mending won't help you when the majority of degen surpasses 3 regen of mending. Healing prayers is trash for a nonmonk, so it is even more trashy for a NONCASTER. That's right, warrior's are NONCASTERS. But that doesn't mean they do not do damage and sit there.

The way I see it you only need Watch Yourself, not even Dolyak signet unless you are fighting in an area with knockdown.

Leave the tank-nuker-healer mentality at home. Warrior's armor is an easy 100armor with sentinal's, 80+20 phys with glad's. Then you add a 16 armor shield. That's 116. Then add Watch Yourself: that's 136...

Effective damage taken: 1/(2^(136/40) ~ 0.095...

If you add Dolyak Signet and you have roughly 170 (depending on strength level). 180 armor is MORE than enough. You don't need a whole bar for defense. 2 skills can supplement your armor's level to an insane level since +40 armor is half damage.

1/2^(170/40) ~0.05... 5% damage

...This is coming from me, a elementalist AND warrior player.

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

18 Aug 2006 at 06:10 - 39

Lol, I use my Ele for storage now as well.

What cracks me up are the Fire Eles in the groups in The Deep saying, "look now, we nukers are UBAR!." Yeah, you THREE nukers.

BTW, you want some damage, run a 16 Axe Eviscerate W with Tiger's Fury at about 8-9 secs, Zealous Axe of Axe Mastery 15^50, crank up a little Strength, and you'll see some damage, my friend. You'll see so much damage it'll make your head spin. XD

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

18 Aug 2006 at 19:43 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

BTW, you want some damage, run a 16 Axe Eviscerate W with Tiger's Fury at about 8-9 secs, Zealous Axe of Axe Mastery 15^50, crank up a little Strength, and you'll see some damage, my friend. You'll see so much damage it'll make your head spin. XD Agreed