Not another limited world

madman420

madman420

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
Locked gate have appeared in a lot of RPG, its not uncommon to have a locked gate to stop people from storyline progression.
That doesn't mean it's a good thing. Most RPG's strive to be non-linear, allowing you to limitlessly explore the environment without having to complete quests to access the next area. I found the gates quite annoying in factions, and definitely hope they rethink this idea for nightfall.

The truth itself

The truth itself

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark

First Degree

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainek
QFT


my Guildie had 15K Glads at level One on his warrior, he's also one of the most talented players i have ever had the grace to play with
I 2nd that entirely, I ran a friend's warrior run to desert at lvl 13, beat the mirror and got to L20 instantly.

Do you accept the fact that there are many players out there, who don't give a coin for PvE gameplay and grinding?

The only reason i played through Factions more than once was because i lacked some skills and i wanted to make more money off farming bosses. I didn't playing through it the 3rd time, it was very frustrating to watch certain cinematics and do some certain unspokken missions with dumb people.

No, I don't like Locked gates.

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Fang
Locked gate have appeared in a lot of RPG, its not uncommon to have a locked gate to stop people from storyline progression.
No, not true. No locked gates in the ones I've played, GW is the first. Most RPG's use less annoying methods to seperate different stages of the story. Although true non-lineairity is not possible, making your rpg is feel non-lineair seems a designgoal common to rpg's.
I don't mind if there a a few such "gates" - in whatever from they come - but Factions tool it into absurdity.

GW's locked gates have nothing to do with story progression. ANet doesn't seem to care much about story, as is shown by the way expert and masters completion of missions.

In the end it doesn't matter what their reasoning was, I didn't like it, it annoyed me and if any sequels are going to bring the same, or similar, annoyances, I certainly will not buy them.

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

I think it's fine that it's open as long as running won't give you an advantage at a lower level like it does in chapter 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The truth itself
it was very frustrating to watch certain cinematics and do some certain unspokken missions with dumb people.
Attention span FTW

Ruby Lightheart

Ruby Lightheart

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Clan of Elders

R/Mo

i understand why they put the roadblocks up in Factions..its cause people were charging or asking for tips to run low level characters to areas you arent supposed toget to until you reach a certain level.

I think what shoulda been done is a lock out...where you have to complete Glints missions before you can enter Droknars...and Sanctum Cay before you could enter the desert. Just putting the lock on those two areas woulda taken alot of business away from Runners.

But then again..a big part of me feels that if someone wants to cheat themselves out of experienceing the full game by paying another to run them to Droks so they can get the good armor...well we all know who they are cause one look at the armor and their level and you know what they did...cheated no one but themselves

Ruby Lightheart

Ruby Lightheart

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Clan of Elders

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
I think it's fine that it's open as long as running won't give you an advantage at a lower level like it does in chapter 1.



Attention span FTW
Like that you cant get the 1.5 or 15k armor until you reach level 20?

Darakus

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Blitzers Guild

The closed doors were not needed to stop runs in Factions, the only run you needed to get the max armor and capture signets for elites as well as all commons was Marketplace to Kaineng center and you could do that one with a really low level.

A runner only ruins the game if he brings a player somewhere that player can get an unfair advantage, in Factions this was definitely not the case.

Concerning Prophecies the only run that had any impact on gameplay was the one from Northern shiverpeaks to southern shiverpeaks that allowed players to get max armor for the low level arenas all other runs were just a service and had no impact on my game whatsoever, stating that they ruined the game is a bit extreme in my opinion and far from easy to justify.

Saying that closed doors blocked exploration is however a fact and that said it was not them that blocked runners but the mobs otherwise running services would have been proposed for each quest and each mission simply asking from players to take the quests in between.

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

in short, not signed for locked gates.

As for runners, if others want to pay for running services to "ruin" their gameplay experience, thats their bussiness. Dont impose your own high and mighty morals over other choices or styles.

Your game experience is your own and what you make of it, dont tell others how they should play the game.

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallandor
As for runners, if others want to pay for running services to "ruin" their gameplay experience, thats their bussiness. Dont impose your own high and mighty morals over other choices or styles.

Your game experience is your own and what you make of it, dont tell others how they should play the game.
You fail to see the point then, if running gives you an advantage it's unfair and has nothing to do with imposing morals.

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Lightheart
Like that you cant get the 1.5 or 15k armor until you reach level 20?
that was indeed what I meant.

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
You fail to see the point then, if running gives you an advantage it's unfair and has nothing to do with imposing morals.
I know what you speak of, Drok armour and Elite skills in Ascalon arena in GWP. But else where it matters not.

samifly

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

Going thru every single mission in cantha for all 8 characters is annoying, not fun, and ruins the game, because I have to do all of the missions now, not at my lesiure. I can savor missions, because they havent been done to death.

Marty Silverblade

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by samifly
Going thru every single mission in cantha for all 8 characters is annoying.
Um, have you realised the point of playing to to do all the missions ? If you don't want to do all the missions again, don't make a new character. It's that simple.

Seventh

Seventh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

A Vial of Dye

Mo/R

Quote:
But then again..a big part of me feels that if someone wants to cheat themselves out of experienceing the full game by paying another to run them to Droks
Getting run by another runner is that person choice, if you think they are cheating themselves, let them cheat themselves, its their choice.

Prophecies allowed running, and that was freedom of choice. There were players who preferred to play through the game, and each time learn something new about the landscape. Also there were other who players preferred to get run, and skip some of the repetative story line. This freedom of choice had its ups and downs, but people were generally satisified with the arangment. Of-course there was arguing over wether it was appropriate to let people get run, and own high level armour early in the story line, but that was a minor problem.

When i bought Factions i was suprised to see that gates were introduced. Gates have ruined my gaming experience in Cantha because my exploration and curiosity has been hindered. The introduction of gates also felt improper to me because my freedom of choice was being taken away. I can no longer choose wether i wish to skip certain missions or play through them.

I have been known to buy runs and skip certain missions and areas, but that only enhanced my playing experience. I feel entrapped with the gate system, and it only forces me to make characters in Prophecies because i will not have to endure the Canthan restrictions.

Quote:
well we all know who they are cause one look at the armor and their level and you know what they did
Does it really matter what level they are when they have max armour? In Factions people get max armour in about the same amount of time it takes a Prophecies character get to Droknar and buy his/her armour. Alot of the Factions players at this stage are as experienced as the Prophecies player, so what makes you so beligerant towards Prophecies player getting their armour so early?

sabretalon

sabretalon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Saints Or Sinners [SOS]

N/W

Runners do not ruin the game!!!! It is you the buyer that is ruining it for yourself! You do not have to use them!!!

I agree the blocks were no good for the game but I would hate to see lvl 1 players heading over to vasburg armory and buying their 15k armor then shipping back to the island! Don't say it wouldn't be done if they were playing it through for the first time, it only takes a 12 year old kid with daddies credit card details to buy it from ebay!

I liked the idea that you had to get 10k of faction to earn their trust and that you had to have faction points before you could use their merchants etc...

"Does it really matter what level they are when they have max armour?" To me it does as if I had the max armor too early then I am not spending enough time understanding how my character deals with damage! In a game were now it is very easy for someone to spend a few quid to get hold of 1000k gold and buy their way through. I find that they are the main ones that cause a lot of problems with pugs. At one point in prophecies you respected the player in their FOW armor! Now anyone can buy that easily.

I still feel we need to have things that we earn and not buy in the game!

I do find it quite a joke that they are still putting in 2-3 damage weapons! Why not start with the 7-11 but a requirement of say level 5 to get the full use of it! That way the weapon you start with improves as you improve.

I'd also like to see more mods for wands and such as well as a mod storage and armor storage.

I think, you will still have the fast rate of levelling in NF as there was in factions, which was good for the casual player. The ability to customise your henchies is very intriguing and something I have wanted from the game. I go through a lot of the game with the guild but I set myself the challange of doing them again with henchies! I did it the opposite way in prophecies, I set my self up to do all the missions with henchies! Only got to the 3 asscension missions though

As for having to do the missions, well what is the point playing the game if you do not want to do them? This time round you have something to push for, not only to get through the mission but also to get masters.

Personally, I feel that if I was to buy my way through the game, I would have cheated myself. By playing through it with my characters I have developed them in a way I like. Not only that, after completing the game (is it ever complete? ;p) I don't get bored playing that character helping out guildies or just running around killing stuff. I have plenty to aim for, just got my 15k Kurzick armor, next is to look at upgrading my weapon set. So I have to go out and earn the gold to fund it! Yes I could roll out another character and use the gold from them but I still don't feel like I have finished with my current char! And she is a sin, who despite all the prejudice about sins has made it through and is enjoying the game each time she plays!

Question! If it is not fun then why play it? The problem with most people is, even if the games were perfect, they would still be searching for something to complain about!

Rent

Rent

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Darkness Within

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
GW's locked gates have nothing to do with story progression.
Locked gates had everything to do with story progression. That's why they were there????

Edit: Hoo boy, I just noticed you replied to me last page!

Quote:
Why? What was so great about them?
They were great for their uniqueness. Showed that they were absolutely unafraid to put in such a radically new design feature and damn what anyone thought, and in my opinion they turned out pretty well. Give me a linear game over a horribly nonlinear one anyday (yes, Saga Frontier, you were fun but for god's sake tell me where the hell to go).

Quote:
You are not making any sense, in one sentence you say the locked gates were the greatest feature of factions, in this one you say you never encountered them? But how can you say they were such a great feature if you've never encountered them?

And if you've never encountered them, you're not much of a gamer. You only follow your questlog and the green star on your map without ever wondering what is in the rest of the area, or ging there?

Locked gates are a major annoyance. I liked exploring the game world - and the designers made some nice trails and sights now and then. The locked gates completely destroy that experience.
rooooooofl

I'm not sure who you are to call me "not much of a gamer". Miyamoto-san, is that you?

God forbid my preferences and my gaming habits not be exactly the same as yours. Learn some tolerance, okay?

And no, I never ever ran into a gate I could not pass through, but that was because I followed those primary quests first and foremost (hence the "primary" status) and, once that was finished, went back and did any secondary quests that interested me. Simple as that. I don't need to have run into one to know of their existence and their purpose.

Xenrath

Xenrath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/Me

I see none of the "I hate runners and think gates are great" people are lining up to volunteer to redo missions for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th time? I'll put that offer back up if gates are all over Nightfall. Because it's so much fun and enjoyable doing every mission over and over again, none of you will mind doing that for me will you.

Oh btw

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview
Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us.

There are two ways in which it would not be ok:

" If someone scams players by taking money and not making the run, they become a nuisance factor rather than a clever entrepreneur, and we would take action on that account.

" If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this.

In other words, to the extent that a practice like "running" or taking a shortcut might negatively affect other players, we'll be taking a look at it very carefully. If there's a lot of abuse of lower-level characters (those who are playing through the missions) by those who are taking the shortcut, we'll address it. I note that we did not choose to address the matter with last night's major game update, and I believe that is because the possible problems are not evident to such a degree that we need to make an amendment. But I just spoke with Lead Designer James Phinney, and he assured me that we will continue to assess the situation and we will come up with solutions if the scales tip towards the negative.
Official interviews ftw. Running was designed into it.

Prophecies story had no need for locked gates (you can always go back and do everything in sequence at any time)
Running was a design element. Lornar's was most likely made for running.
Gates aren't needed everywhere to stop PvP armour abuse (why not just put in level limits for equipment in low level PvP areas??)
Gates are irrlevent in Cantha to stop PvP abuse, since you can get max armour from Kaineng (low level Tyrian can still get there and back)
The gates are there to artificially lengthen a very short game.

Seventh

Seventh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

A Vial of Dye

Mo/R

Quote:
I feel that if I was to buy my way through the game, I would have cheated myself
That is how you feel, but this game caters to a large population. A large part of the population prefer to get run their third or fourth time. Why should people call them names for skipping the bland areas, and jumping straight into the action? You may feel cheated by doing this, but i am sure many other people have no such feelings.

Also i would like it if ebay was held out of this thread. I'm not sure why people always jump to ebay as their answer for everything.

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
If you're talking about 'skills' as in equipped skills, this isn't really a valid complaint. First, there are no skill quests in Factions, so whether you're run somewhere or not doesn't impact whether you have access to certain skills.
Yes it does, certain skills are not availeble until you have reach a certain lvl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
Second, even in Prophecies the primary quests beyond Pre-Searing didn't grant skills either. If anything, a player that has been run will be a better addition to the party, because they have access to *later game* skills and equipment. A lvl5 with elite skills and droks armor is a bit more powerful than a normal lvl5 with paper-thin armor and a handful of starting skills.
A lvl 5 with droks and elit skills(will fail 50% under att. 5-6) is a joke, I my self would never play with such a player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
If you're talking about 'skills' as in player skill, I don't believe this is a valid argument either. Sure, in theory, being forced to play the game should make you a better player, but looking around in mission towns this clearly isn't the case. Factions could not be 'run' through, but Factions players are still generally terrible - to the point where you are much more likely to complete most missions and quests with henchmen than with the typical PUG. Bad players are bad players because they don't think, and they don't learn. It doesn't matter if they play through every area of the game, or if they get run through every area of the game, they're still going to suck horribly and screw up your group. At least if they've been run through the game they'll be bad players with max armor and elite skills.

But they don't have the Att. points to use the skills or armour or weapons that they have, so a equal lvl player with skills and equipment matching their att. points at that lvl will be more usefull because they will at least get full use of their gear.

Tetris L

Tetris L

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Germany

Servants of Fortuna

I very much liked the fact that the locked gates took running out of the game in Factions, almost entirely. Running is a plague that should be stopped. Good riddance, ANet!

However, I also agree that locked gates are not the ideal solution. There must be other, better countermeasures for running that still allow for non-linear playing. Personally I'd like to see it that not all party members are resurrected and teleported to the new location if only one party member enters a zone. Only party members who are within radar range should be teleported, the others should remain in the zone. Yes, in worst case that can mean that the party is split, but that is something I wouldn't mind.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenrath
Gates are irrlevent in Cantha to stop PvP abuse, since you can get max armour from Kaineng (low level Tyrian can still get there and back)

The gates are there to artificially lengthen a very short game.
Yep, that's pretty much my opinion, too.

Plus, the gates are so intrusive. There were so many times I wanted to go into an area (like the Skyway to cap Flesh Golem), and couldn't. I also wanted to go to the Luxon area before the Kurzick, but I can't do that either.

I want Nightfall to be totally open. If I just want to explore, get skills and kill stuff, why shouldn't I be able to? Why should I have to do the missions? I mean, I'll do them anyway, but the fact that all my characters are forced to do all the missions, in all the same order, just bugs me.

Especially since it wasn't that way in Prophecy, it was a complete shock. And totally unnecessary.

bpphantom

bpphantom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Canukistan

The Eyes of Ashtabula [Eyes]

I'm honestly just hoping that Nightfall is more like Prophecies gameplay in many, many ways.

Factions was way too fast and I've found 3 gates I can't get around yet. My buddy and I wiped during the last (I think it was the last) swarming afflicted square and were too frustrated and bored to do it again anytime soon.

Now I see I must force myself to grind and grind just to experience the story... whee. :/

Morrowind, allegedly an awesome game. It can be completed without hacks or cheats in under 10 minutes. Sure you miss the entire 250 hours of gameplay, but you're done.

Meh, I'll pre-order and leave it sealed just in case. Nightfall, you'd best not disappoint.

Gorebrex

Gorebrex

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

I also dont care for runners, also if in desert, I will not team with someone who isnt at least lvl 15, preferably 17. I see the running as somewhat lazy, asked someone about it once, he said he had 4 lvl 20s, why shouldnt he run?(was like lvl 5 in Dunes). To me, it doesnt matter if you have 10 lvl 20s, each profession combo is a little different, and Id like it if people would spend more time learning what works/doesnt work againt different mobs, as well as where things are. LOVE the locked gate idea in Factions(dont have it yet, but soon), but with some modifications. All quests should lead into something else, like another quest, or access to an area. You should be able to go just about anywhere in the map, if towns are the only place to get quests. On the Droks runs, I think it wasnt meant to be accessible from Beacons for anyone, but was to give lvl 20s somewhere else to go from Droks, and to give them something besides final quests to do to get xp for skill points, just for fun, or practicing tactics. Personally, Id like to see a sign installe on the Lornars portal that says, "You must be Level 20 to access this area." Would stop runners, Id think. Or, they could increase the number of mobs by about 3-5 times what they are now, and make them a minimum of lvl 30. I dont know, maybe people LIKE getting through the game as fast as possible, so they can get bored with it that much faster, I just dont understand why people are in such a hurry.

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rent
Locked gates had everything to do with story progression. That's why they were there????
Open gates would have had no impact on the story itself, you'd still have to follow and complete the primary quest line. Locked gates have more to do with an unfinished game rushed towards release, the more lineair the player progresses through the story, the easier it is to develop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rent
God forbid my preferences and my gaming habits not be exactly the same as yours. Learn some tolerance, okay?
Oh, well, I am sorry if I upset you. I like to stray from the beaten path and I don't like to be forced to follow the green compass arrow exactly as was planned. You can like whatever you want.

In the end it only means I will be very carefull with sequels and if they come up with a similar straight-jacket concept, I'll not buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorebrex
You should be able to go just about anywhere in the map, if towns are the only place to get quests.
In factions you can't, you have to follow a prescribed path, there is no going to just about anywhere.

Quote:
On the Droks runs, I think it wasnt meant to be accessible from Beacons for anyone,
The droks-run was by design, someone quoted from an interview with a ANet employee about it, in this thread.

Quote:
I just dont understand why people are in such a hurry.
In Factions people are in a hurry more then they were in Prohecies.

Riotgear

Riotgear

has 3 pips of HP regen.

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Objective Is More [Cash]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilq
Yeah runners ruined the game because we all know that in Cantha there are no bad players whatsoever...
And? Cantha missions and quests are retardedly easy, grab some henchmen and go. You could probably do the whole game with just henchmen, if not, with henchmen and one MM.

I'm under the impression that they nerfed running in Cantha because first off, there's not a single point-to-point run you can't do with just henchmen, and second, because you hit level 20 so fast in Cantha. Is the time difference between hitting level 20 in Tyria and getting past all of the gate locks in Cantha particularly different?

Hockster

Hockster

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2005

The worst thing about threads like this is that if Nightfall doesn't have gates, all the whiners, complainers and crybabies will rejoice and feel free to whine, complain and cry even more in fansite forums. If Nightfall is locked up, then these same people will still whine, complain and cry, but about how much Anet sucks, the game sucks, and everything else sucks. See the pattern?

If you want to make a perfect game, that caters to your every whim, follows your exact playstyle, go write your own. It must be that easy, right?

Don't like runners? Don't hire one.
Don't like getting assraped by twinkies in Ascalon Arena? Don't go there.
Don't like locked gates after 3/4/5+ characters? Learn the shortcut to get there with the quest.

gamecube187

gamecube187

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholm
Just have a NPC that you have to talk too to get in to the mission( like UW or FoW) and if you haven't done the previous mission He/She will not let you in. Much easier (and will make it harder on Bot's).
Um, that is exactly what I said, but just in a lot more detail....or at least that is what I tried to say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rera
I honestly don't understand how runners ruin the game. I'm not trying to be snide or anything - I really don't see it. If you want to play through the game at normal pace, you can do that. If you'd prefer to skip to the late game content, pay for a run. It seems like a win-win for everyone involved, including the runners that make the bucks.
Accually, its more like a win for runners-win for people being run-lose for people that are playing through for their first time or just want to play through normally kind of thing. See below for why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholm
They problem is that you get ppl in pug's that don't have the skill's they should have at that point in the game, because the got run past part off the game. If it is a player with experiance he/she knows what skills to pick up, but the new players that just want to get to the high lvl areas without learning how to play the game, ruin the gaming experiance for the rest of us.
Well that, and the fact that there are certain missions in prophecies that are really hard to get a group with because almost everyone just gets run past that area so the people that accually want to do the misssion have to suffer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiNkLeR
Just came here to say ur wrong, and jeff strain and gaile sayed many times, When GuildWars were being made, factions team were writting stuff for the new chapter , and story, etc.

So, its separatte.. One is Prophecies, other is factions.
So then what was teh factions team doing during the beta of GW prophecies?Was it only the one team that did all of prophecies and all the programming and everything? So then did the factions team just sit there and watch, until prophecies came out? And then they decided to work on fractions?

GW has been out for 2+ years (if you include beta and that stuff before it was accually released to buy) and supossedly, factions was only in developement for a year, so there seems to be something wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabretalon
In a game were now it is very easy for someone to spend a few quid to get hold of 1000k gold and buy their way through. I find that they are the main ones that cause a lot of problems with pugs. At one point in prophecies you respected the player in their FOW armor! Now anyone can buy that easily.
Um spend a few quid? What are quid? Sounds like a cool item if you can sell it for 1000k!

And, since when can anyone easily buy FOW armor, and since when is it not respected? I sure respect anyone (excluding the e-bayers) that has it, and it certainly is not easy to get, at least not for me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenrath
I see none of the "I hate runners and think gates are great" people are lining up to volunteer to redo missions for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th time? I'll put that offer back up if gates are all over Nightfall. Because it's so much fun and enjoyable doing every mission over and over again, none of you will mind doing that for me will you.

Oh btw

Official interviews ftw. Running was designed into it.

Prophecies story had no need for locked gates (you can always go back and do everything in sequence at any time)
Running was a design element. Lornar's was most likely made for running.
Gates aren't needed everywhere to stop PvP armour abuse (why not just put in level limits for equipment in low level PvP areas??)
Gates are irrlevent in Cantha to stop PvP abuse, since you can get max armour from Kaineng (low level Tyrian can still get there and back)
The gates are there to artificially lengthen a very short game.
"I hate runners and think gates are great", and I certainly will do the missions even 12+ times or however many characters I have. I have beat cantha with 4 of my 7 characters (I am going to make my mesmer when nightfall comes out so I will have 4 made in prophecies, 3 made in cantha, and 3 made in nightfall) and am working on my other two everyday. Also, most of my characters have gotten at least to southern shiverpeaks (and done all the missions that are before it) so you are wrong with that.

Also, ya, you can get run and then come back to the missions later, but seriously, how many people that get run comeback for the missions they missed?

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

You were going to explain how runners ruin the game. You made a paragraph about a mission with a dual purpose (Moladune?), but that problem would not be solved by the locked gates - splitting the mission would.

The locked gates also don't keep out the inexperienced players, or those who do not buy neccesary skills for their character.

Alleji

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

God, I hate the locked gates in factions so much... I really didn't care about the storyline much in the first place and dragging any character past the first though the godawful kaineng city was simply a chore. In fact, I still haven't made a PvE assassin just because I don't want to drag a fourth character through factions.

If I could get a run from kaineng to House, cap AoD, do some kurzick quests, buy nice-looking armor and go PvP, i'd love that, but nooo... we can't have an open-ended game. Factions PvE gets a big "f*ck you, anet" from me and I hope Nightfall isn't like that.

mikrobx

mikrobx

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

FoW

Eleventh Fleet [XITH]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolman
Runners ruin the game, I hope they map is just like the Cantha map where you have to actually do quests to get places.
i'm sorry but foo my guild bases on runners n that is our income.... and i really hope for an open map and no damn mazes like kaineng city.... i like samall ones.. but kaineng is over a half of the map omg.... that was F up....

plus runners can help peeps to get to the next stage of the story.... say i waz (the first time i played prophecies) stucked in diessa lowlands... and it wuz a runner who showed me the way to yak's bend....

plus its what peeps want for themselves

if u know the story and dont liek care then running u to the end of it really really helps. u evolve ure char and get lvls skills n stuf...

so if u dont like runners dont use them....

mikrobx

mikrobx

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

FoW

Eleventh Fleet [XITH]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleji
God, I hate the locked gates in factions so much... I really didn't care about the storyline much in the first place and dragging any character past the first though the godawful kaineng city was simply a chore. In fact, I still haven't made a PvE assassin just because I don't want to drag a fourth character through factions.

If I could get a run from kaineng to House, cap AoD, do some kurzick quests, buy nice-looking armor and go PvP, i'd love that, but nooo... we can't have an open-ended game. Factions PvE gets a big "f*ck you, anet" from me and I hope Nightfall isn't like that.
totaly ... plus narrow streets suck ass..... i got ambushed by gangs when trying to run peeps to end Q 2 many times....

Knightsaber Sith

Knightsaber Sith

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2006

Few Fallen Heroes [FFH]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamecube187
Um spend a few quid? What are quid? Sounds like a cool item if you can sell it for 1000k!

And, since when can anyone easily buy FOW armor, and since when is it not respected? I sure respect anyone (excluding the e-bayers) that has it, and it certainly is not easy to get, at least not for me....
Quid is a form of currency (I want to say in England; not sure....). The point is he was saying that people that buy ebay gold online, use it to get power lvl'd, run through the whole game and of course have enough left over for fow armor; are more of a problem then the runners themselves and derserve no respect.

Knightsaber Sith

Knightsaber Sith

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2006

Few Fallen Heroes [FFH]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Lightheart
I think what shoulda been done is a lock out...where you have to complete Glints missions before you can enter Droknars...and Sanctum Cay before you could enter the desert. Just putting the lock on those two areas woulda taken alot of business away from Runners.
when you say "Glints missions" I really hope you meant Dragon's Lair and not the titan quests. Hard enough to get a party together for DNK let alone without Drok armor

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

People complain about Kaineng City so much, and its missions ("oh god they're so boring i can't stand them prophecies missions were way better"); but come on, how many of you played through Maguuma and did all of those missions on each and every character?

Stop trying to say Prophecies' missions were so much better: they weren't.

Nexium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

The road block made the game feel real small want to get that hmm kinda epic fealing and explore on my own and se what might be on the other side of that portal...

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikrobx
i'm sorry but foo my guild bases on runners n that is our income.... and i really hope for an open map and no damn mazes like kaineng city.... i like samall ones.. but kaineng is over a half of the map omg.... that was F up....

plus runners can help peeps to get to the next stage of the story.... say i waz (the first time i played prophecies) stucked in diessa lowlands... and it wuz a runner who showed me the way to yak's bend....

plus its what peeps want for themselves

if u know the story and dont liek care then running u to the end of it really really helps. u evolve ure char and get lvls skills n stuf...

so if u dont like runners dont use them....
You should probably spend some time in school instead of running people in game, looks like you could need it.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamecube187
Also, ya, you can get run and then come back to the missions later, but seriously, how many people that get run comeback for the missions they missed?
I would guess quite a lot. After you've gotten the skills and armor you want, why not go for completing every quest with your awesome character?

Plus, some missions are the only places to get elites.

But we digress, the issue is not "Why would people do missions."

The issue is: "Why keep people out of certain areas"?

We're all level 20 in Cantha. Does getting Flesh Golem before I do the Square mission really matter? Why do I have to do a Kurzick mission before I can get to the Luxons?

I always enjoyed exploring in Prophecy. When I made it to Yak's Bend without doing the missions, it was such a cool feeling. It felt actually better to do it that way (at low level, with henchies, mind you), than by doing the Missions.

So, when I got to the Skyway gate in Cantha and couldn't enter, it was like a slap in the face. There is no reason for it to be closed off, except as an artificial way to extend the playing time. And that's the worst part about it, it was a pointless limit placed just to frustrate players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakumei
People complain about Kaineng City so much, and its missions ("oh god they're so boring i can't stand them prophecies missions were way better"); but come on, how many of you played through Maguuma and did all of those missions on each and every character?

Stop trying to say Prophecies' missions were so much better: they weren't.
Maybe not, but they seemed better. I mean, there were a few quests in Prophecy that had you running around just talking to people, but they were fairly easy.

There are tons of quests in Cantha like that. Handing out mirrors to the homeless, which has to be done in a certain order. "Passing the Buck" was one of the worst. The medicine you have to get, which ends rather hopelessly (talk about a waste of time.) There are more examples, I don't know how many times I had to talk to Guardsman Ping (sp?).

So, maybe the Prophecy quests weren't a lot better, but they certainly weren't as bad.

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakumei
People complain about Kaineng City so much, and its missions ("oh god they're so boring i can't stand them prophecies missions were way better"); but come on, how many of you played through Maguuma and did all of those missions on each and every character?

Stop trying to say Prophecies' missions were so much better: they weren't.
That's a matter of opinion; I much prefer almost all* of Prophecies missions to any of Factions. Counting the time limit you have to rush against forcing you to miss out on Factions really nice looking areas; far too linear hand held quest system; wave after wave of the exact same mob group build up (that seems like they sat in a town saying "glf X"); Faction's missions were pretty badly done unless you enjoy being rushed through the game... which brings back the point of runners rushing through the game.
If Faction's loses the locked gates and opens up the land for exploration as you play through (instead of after you complete it), it would be far more interesting and enjoyable. Of course, that is my opinion.

*There was a couple of desert missions pitted against the clock that annoyed me as well and caused for the "gogogo" blah form of play.

wilq

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

[RTF]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riotgear
And? Cantha missions and quests are retardedly easy, grab some henchmen and go. You could probably do the whole game with just henchmen, if not, with henchmen and one MM.

I'm under the impression that they nerfed running in Cantha because first off, there's not a single point-to-point run you can't do with just henchmen, and second, because you hit level 20 so fast in Cantha. Is the time difference between hitting level 20 in Tyria and getting past all of the gate locks in Cantha particularly different?
We're talking about locked gates supposedly filtering out the bad players and making it so more people are in the outpost and you're telling me to grab henches and do the mission? What's the point of locked gates then if you're not gonna play with others?

Draxx

Draxx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

England Baby!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolman
Runners ruin the game, I hope they map is just like the Cantha map where you have to actually do quests to get places.
*sigh*

... Thats it really... Im tired of argueing with the Running Nazi's ... So i will simply shake my head in disgust

*shakes head in disgust*