Vizunah Quarter VERY nasty problem for Survivors, beware!

On top of what majoho said, you can't watch it again in an outpost. How many times do we have to beat it into your puny little heads? The only time you can rewatch a cutscene in an outpost is the intro cutscene for a mission outpost when you first enter it.

Mid mission and end mission cutscenes cannot be watched again unless you go through the mission again. Why should that one person skip the cutscene if 7 other people want to? Sure you can say he could redo the mission and see it again, but that would inconvenience him 20 minutes just to know what's going on as opposed to inconveniencing 7 others for 2-3 which they can easily take a well deserved break and get a coffee or something.

On top of that, so they decide to do it again JUST to watch the cutscene. 7/8 people want to skip this cutscene. Oh, I guess he should skip because he can always do the mission again to watch it OH WAIT.

This is a bug ArenaNet has to fix and clean up. You shouldn't have to complete a mission multiple times to figure out what's going on in the story.

oh oh, thats a pretty bad bug. i'm glad there were only 2-3 minions left when i watched the cutscene with my survivor. the minions were attacking the envoys, so no one in my party was acatually in danger of getting killed. maybe cutscenes could be changed in a way, that player characters cannot be killed, like they did with minions. or they could be considered not belonging to the mission anymore.

i really feel for you. going for survivor and not getting power leveled is a very dangerous and time consuming task, yet a rewarding one. i would be terribly frustrated if my charcter died because of a flaw like that.

"This is a bug ArenaNet has to fix and clean up. You shouldn't have to complete a mission multiple times to figure out what's going on in the story."

You have a great point, but until that happens, if you refuse to skip a cutscene in a situation where it causes a player to lose their survivior title you are being selfish.

I'd rather skip the cutscene and go read about it on wiki then be the person that is the reason why someone else lost their chance at survivior titles. I wouldn't want someone else to do that to me.

Granted, the cutscenes are not supposed to do this but like others have pointed out it can in certain situations. Think about other people for a change. Is the game's storyline that important that you would screw over a fellow player?

Not saying you specifically Sek but everyone in general who say they have some right to see the cutscene at the expense of the group they are with.

Is it any wonder people want to play with henchies?

I dont think that people wanting to watch a cutscene and have 7/8 are selfish. People who continue to watch a cutscene as things go bad, however, are selfish.

It is selfish of you to expect people to skip cutscenes and ruin their own enjoyment of the game because your little ego can not cope with waiting for 20~30 seconds. Your impatience is your problem to deal with.

The right to enjoy the content we paid money for. Live with it, there is a good chance that in any PuG you get into there will be someone who wants to see the cutscenes.

But you might be glad to know that, unless I am the only one who hasn't seen a cutscene, you will not see 7/8 long in the PuG's I am in, since even if I've seen a cutscene I will not press skip until I am the last. That way I prevent this pressure on those who really haven't seen it.


That said, if you see things turning bad during a cutscene it would make sense to skip. If you're around that is, and not getting a cup of coffee. With bugs like this one and anyone opting for survivor, it should be mentioned in advance if they want people to take it into account.

Correct, it may not be the actual cutscene "death" but at that point all minions turn hostile - first they start attacking the Envoys and when everyone is brought "back to life" they start attacking players too. Good point about vampiric weapon too actually.

My character was thus attacked, by minions created by players - I think there may be a split second or something after the movie and before loading the next town/zone, which results in death.

Fact is my character did not die during the mission or at any time before then. The only explanation is it happened during that last cutscene somehow, quite probably because of the minions going hostile.

I don't know why this topic has shifted onto skipping/votes etc. as stated above it is a bug in that players take damage during a cutscene and then die instantly the moment it's over. This happened with my ranger too in Raisu Palace - ranger was at the end of the lineup, some long range enemies were landing hit after hit. Cutscene ended, ranger fell to the floor dead instantly.

Solution: fix it so players take no damage/lose no health during a cutscene, maybe redo a few cutscenes so enemies in the immediate area don't attack either until after the cutscene. If it's possible to stop minions from decaying during a cutscene, this fix should be possible too.

Update: I've had the usual robotic answer from Anet: we're looking into it, feel free to discuss on a forum thing. No news if they'll correct the death = 1 or if I'll have to do this all over again blah..

p.s. I did not mention it to people during the mission I was trying to continue Survivor as I didn't want anyone going out of their way to impose anything on them (i.e. wanting everyone to skip bear in mind up to 15 other people..) or thinking I was gonna quit etc. I didn't know you could actually die from that cutscene lol if I died "normally" then it happens no big deal, but to die due to a bug and have title progress stop is kinda sucky. A bug which puts all Survivors at risk during this mission if there are minions around, and at least one other mission if they get that far. Hence the original warning post.

Agreed,because they dont give a damn about the story of guild wars dousnt mean im forbidden to know the story,there just going to have to wait if its my first time watching the vid,especially because i often get teamed with kids or arrogant fools,im not going to do those types any favors.

I personally love watching the cutscenes, bad acting and all. It helps remind me what the game is all about - the lore, the story, etc...it's easy to get lost in the mechanics of the game if you don't stop and relive the story every once in a while.

The main problem with Vizunah Square is the length of the final cutscene - I believe it's over a minute long, which can cause a lot of practical problems (as described by Xenrath) and also piss off a lot of people that were just trying to get masters completion...

If I was only there for masters, regardless of getting it or not, if someone wants to watch the cutscene and I really don't feel like it and want to get one with things, I kill the client and restart, much faster.

You should see a specialist and have him work on your problem.

If I've not seen a scene I'll watch unless people stated to skip.

Majority should rule for cutscenes. All scenes should be in a clickable area at the login screen (or after login) allowing you to watch them (after you have 'unlocked' them of course).

Until scenes are handled better I won't bother argueing. If it's asked politely to skip and people don't I just go afk and check after a while. The wasted time can be spent on a trip to the bathroom, getting a drink, getting a snack, etc..

Nope Majority rule should NEVER influence the individuals game experience.

Hah! If you were the minionmaster, it would be your minions killing all those pesky survivors.

The 'Skip' button.

ANet gives each person the right to watch the cutscene. ANet gives nobody the right to prevent others from watching the cut scene.

All this talk about skipping cut scenes (before the update) for the minion master. You're not doing the mm a favor, you're doing it for the good of the team. I guess this still applies (after the update), since not skipping could result in the minions killing your team.

Here's a suggestion if you're worried about losing your survivor title at the end of Vizunah. If you are a primary or secondary necro, bring Taste of Death. It's a wonderful self-heal when you have minions, and you can also kill off the minions at the very end if you want to watch the cut scene and not lose survivor. Now, I don't expect anyone to actually do this, but hey, it's an option.

Did this mission with my rit last night to check if it had been fixed, and no, 16 deaths before going in, 17 after. There were only 3 minions at the end and they were attacking my guildie, so I'm not convinced they were what killed us... Does anyone know if it's possible to log out/exit game just after the cutscene starts and still progress? Or if there's any way to just avoid the mission? Or if Anet actually have plans to fix it? Cos there's no way my survivor is going through there at this point in time!

An update: I got a response from Anet about this, basically they won't do anything - if you lose your Survivor because of this bug (or other cutscene bug, such as Raisu Palace) then it's gone and you'll have to start your Survivor all over again...

The usual message about "we'll look into it" for the actual bug itself.


You must do this mission to progress further into the game and get more quests etc, at least in Cantha. Blasted locked gates sigh...

Oh pants. I was afraid that might be the response... Oh well. Might experiment with logging out before the death part of the cutscene instead then!

SPOILER---THIS THREAD CONTAINS A POSSIBLE SPOILER---SPOILER



Ok, I searched the forums on this topic to find out what's going on. However, there are no recent posts on this topic (and there have been several new builds since the last thread I found), and wiki is unclear.

After completing the Vizunah Square Mission, does the forced death in the cut scene (where Shiro kills entire party by blinking his eye) count against the Survivor title?

I had 0 deaths before I entered the Vizunah Square Mission. I didn't die during the mission. After the mission, I had 1 death. I actually skipped the cut scene (I forgot all about the forced death), but discovered upon my arrival in Dragon's Throat that I had 1 death. My guild said that this cut scene death counts against the Survivor title. Is this correct???

If this is correct, how are we supposed to progress through the game on track toward Legendary Survivor?

Some past threads on this topic have said that the forced death at Vizunah does NOT count against the Survivor title. Others have said that hostile minions in the cut scene can kill you (but remember, I SKIPPED the cut scene). Wiki says that Vizunah generally does NOT count against Surivor, but sometimes it does (even if no minions are present).

SO WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??????

I'm a little upset about this. I don't know why since I wasn't even trying for Surivor to begin with, but just stumbled upon the first rank of the title. Then I discovered that it's actually not that difficult if you have already completed the games on a different character (since you know how best to approach any quest/mission) and if you're careful (and depending on what profession you are).

Please help me understand what's going on here.

Anna

It does, I failed survivor twice from it (one being 100k EXP away from Legendary Survivor xD). It doesnt matter anymore to me since I got my survivor in 4th try :P

Thank you. Is there any way to get past this mission (i.e., progress in factions) without losing the Survivor title?

This is weird. Wiki even said that in a recent build, you lost survivor by using the /resign command (that has since changed).

This is odd, because it hasn't always counted. I am on my 4th attempt at survivor (3) with a monk. On my 3rd attempt, I did that mission. I did it from an international district (about a month ago) with henchies (other team was also just one person with henchies). We did the mission, skipped the cutscene, and much to my delight, I did NOT gain a death. I then went on later to be stupid and die somewhere in Elona, and had to start him over again.

No, I didn't just "miss" that I had a death and thought I died later. It was many, many days later, and probably 100k exp later, that I actually died capping some elite in Elona. I was *always* checking my deaths count, whenever I'd play. I'm certain I made it through that mission safely. And I definately died (not just a quick quit and log back in to find I died) on that elite capping run. And I had one death at that point, not two.

I was just thinking of doing this mission with the new monk last night. I'm glad I haven't yet. But it's frustrating because I want to cap some more elites in Cantha and I really need to move the story forward now as I've gotten all the ones in areas before that already.

There must be some kind of glitch or something. I swear I did this mission about a month ago, and did not get a death.

using SEARCH
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ivo r+vizunah

Any statements made before the current build, especially before any major updates, are moot because things usually change in some weird, pointless way.

^^ ya I read on wiki that some of this stuff seems to change from build to build, as if they are missing some change on some builds, and remembering to include it in others (although I have no clue how something like that can happen if they practice good version control). But I suspect it's just some odd side effect of another change that they don't catch right away.

I think I'll go through the mission with another char later and see if it counts or not, before I decide to send my monk in there.

finished the mission 5 minutes ago and let the end movie play out complete

my death count was unchanged

I had 3 heroes and 12 henchies - no minions



for me,
the movie didnt count as a death

I have done that mission three times with three different survivors and that death has never counted. Like others have mentioned though this is a new build so who knows. One other possibility is that you died from lag. Let me explain. I have noticed during this winter fest thing that the lag can at times be really bad. With the new system that Anet used to take care of disconnects it possible to be disconnected and it appear that you are still playing. If that happened to you, you could have died and been ressurrected without you even really even knowing. The only hint would have been the dp penalty in the top corner.

Ok, I admit the theory is far fetched but... Lately lag has really been causing some wierness in the game.

The forced death does not count.

Whats happening is EVERY team is using Minion Masters in that mission, and at the end when you "die" the minions become masterless, so when you are "rezzed" in the cutscene the minions become hostile to you and begin to rape your party as the cutscene plays out - and THATS where your death is coming from...

I got Legendary Survivor on my Dervish. Wouldn't have happened if that cutscene counted as a death. It doesn't.

I think what people are pointing out (and wiki points out) is that the builds aren't always stable. Unless someone has checked it after every build, nobody can know for sure. Ever time a build comes out something unrelated seems to break. It's almost as if the server behind the game is one big-assed kludge.

as I posted earlier - I redid this mission, *today* a few hours ago

I didnt use minions, I had no change to my death count


I welcome anyone else to try the mission, with no minions, and report back

"Death" seems to be arbitrarilly meted out at times.

My Elonian Ele at no time had died or even come close - and then one day doing my usual checks (on the hero screen to see how far/close I was, mapping progress, etc.), I noticed the Survivor title counter was gone! I checked, and sure enough it said she'd died one time! There had been no cutscene death, no questing death, no afk (don't do that unless in town and even then only for a bathroom break and such), NO DEATH to account for. Yet the server shows she died.

Well, from what I did while programming, I created multiple builds to test certain things and certain builds may have had fixes that other ones didn't, so the final build may get implemented without a major fix. But in a game like this, once a build gets implemented, it needs to be worked from so everything is consistent.

Well if you READ my original post, I stated that I did search (in fact I found this exact thread that you linked). But the last post on that thread was 8-25-06. So, using COMMON SENSE (now there's a novel idea for you), the information in that thread may be outdated since there have been several new builds since then (maybe you didn't know this but things change from build to build.... I know, crazy idea isn't it?). So I created a new thread to try to figure out what's going on.

I also mentioned in my original thread that wiki states that the cut scene deat at Vizunah sometimes counts against Survivor. This has been reported as recently as 12-19-06, (I admit, I didn't post this date).

Any other helpful comments you can make?

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna test it out later today and see what happens. I'll report back when I do.

I believe you. But something is obviously going on. I didn't die in the entire mission (and I'm certain I had 0 deaths before the cut scene). After the cut scene I had 1 death, so something caused it. Perhaps it was hostile minions, but the minions didn't have any opportunity to be hostile since I skipped the cut scene (and I had nearly full health immediately before the mission end).

So it seems that the forced death in the cut scene may not be counting against Surivor, but something else that takes place during the cut scene IS causing a death.

Maybe that's what it is. But does this occur if I skipped the entire cut scene (which I did)? Or does skipping even matter; does the scene play out as a programmed requirement in the background even though I skipped it (let me know if what I just said doens't make any sense).

So what is the best way to approach this? Should I disconnect once the cut scene starts? Will that matter?

If it is in fact hostile minions causing the death, then it makes sense to kill off all minions before the last fight. But what if the other party has an MM? Should I keep on disconnecting immediately after I discover I have been coupled with a "real" (as opposed to AI) party at the mission start, and keep on trying until I get an AI party? (I hate to do that because I think it's rude toward the other party).

Also wiki reports that a death has sometimes been caused during the cut scene even when no minions are present at all. I'm very confused.

I have a question... What happens to the Surivor Title Bar in the Titles Tab of the Hero Window when you lose survivor? I just read on another thread that the bar (which shows how much XP needed until the next tier) disappears once you die and and are prevented from fruther progressing in that title. Is this true?

I ask because I know that my Survivor Title Bar is still intact and shows how much XP I need until the next tier. Am I still on track toward Indomitable Survivor? (I honestly don't think so because my /death count is 1).

Just wanted to check... I can't test it out until I get home.

EDIT: Never mind. I just tested it. Gone. No biggie I guess.

I have gotten 2 Survivors thru with Minion Masters and from my knowledge if you skip the cutescene it will NOT play out in the background (tho this is only what i think so no guarantee). But well theres been good 20 - 25 minions around when the cutscene started and the whole team skipped. And the Survivor is still goin.


If the cutscene plays out or not if you skip it can most likely only be correctly answered by a dev.

Thanks Kurald. I've been thinking... although I skipped the cut scene I do know that it was up for a few seconds before the the other party skipped also. I wasn't paying attention to the cut scene, so if Shiro slays the party at the beginning of the cut scene, or if lag could have caused the cut scene to remain up without our knowing, then I guess that could account of hostile minions killing me (if they can do 500+ damage in a couple of seconds).

I was going to test it out by re-doing the mission. But I've decided to re-create my ranger and then test the mission out again with another character immediate before I take my survivor ranger through (what's the use of testing now if a new build is implemented by the time my ranger arrives at Vizunah?)

Thanks to everyone who offered their explanations and observations.

If anyone has any further ideas, please chime in. For example, what's the best method to help prevent any hostile minions from killing you during the cut scene (or whatever else killed me). Is it "skip" cut scene? Alt+F4? F12? Closing the window via the "X" at the top right hand corner?

Anet fixed the "death by hostile minions" a while back, to my knowledge. They can strike all they like but will not kill anyone.

As to the Survivor bar in the Hero tab: if you have already achieved a certain level Survivor, it will remain but will freeze at the xp you earned up to the death (at least it did with mine).

MM and Ritualist (spiritualists) seem to be the easiest to secure Survivor with.

Best bet is if you can sync 2 groups of friends or 2 groups of friends + henchies so everyone really skips fast enough. Thats what i did. We found out it worked quite well if you start from international districts. Or from your home districts at some odd time when not many are online .

And i would think "skip" the cutscene is the best way to do it. But as i said earlier your best bet is to try and get some friends of you on BOTH sides (Foreign and Local).

Kurald, thanks for the suggestions. I'm gonna try to group with a friend's team in the international district. I'll let all minions die before last fight, then skip scene immediately once the option appears.

Now to create a level 20 Ranger.... *sigh*

You're welcome. And good luck on getting the title.

You can still die during cut scenes. It's possible that he might have had degen on him prior to the cut scene happening, and that killed him.