To Anet: a petition: nerf the 55 exploit.

The 55 monk build has been used at some time by most of us, but in the meanwhile, it is the main tool of botters and ebay sellers. eventualy, it hurts us more then it helps us, and lets not forget, it is, in a way, an exploit in the game. a mathematical manipulation of skills and items.

So instead of working hard on banning bots again and again, (and in the way, shooting down some innocent players), do something about it. I want to show that we, the players, see that this is hurting our gameplay and wallets more then it helps us, and would rather see the 55 monk go to it's grave. everyone who is with me, please sign here.

here are some suggestions:

1. make the hp loss from two runes of the same attribute not stack. this will automaticly get the minimum hp to 130, and will make 55monking much harder, and with no downside for other players.

2. remove all -50 foci from the game. (or change them to something else).

3. make PS and SBond have a longer recharge time, or make them target only "other ally". (which would be nice, because two players could still form a 55 tank, one being the 55, the other being the monk bonder).

4. find another way, we know you can.


This might not take care of the whole problem, but it could be the first real step taken.


(Mods: please not move this into the sanitarium. I know it's a kind of a suggestion, but it is also an important general game discussion, that I want us to have here).

Agreed

Um nerf 55 monks and all you will see is tons of warrior farmers. Warriors can farm the droknars forge troll cave and there are builds which are very fast too. I guarantee the gold sellers will find another way of farming. May aswell nerf all the farming areas if you cant stop the farmers lol. How about anet just nerf gold making so noone can make gold?

Anet wont nerf 55 hp monks lol.

Please explain how it damages the economy more than it helps people.

Btw your idea sucks and will never happen and has been said tons in the past so expect it to be closed.

agreed

As Herbalizer pointed out, there are Warrior builds that can farm low-yeild areas like Elona and the Drok's trolls simply enough for a bot to run them.

...Consequently, nerfing the 55 won't change the influence ebayers have over the overall economy, since it'll only take a couple of days for thousands of wazzas with generic names to level up. That's a pretty big argument of yours negated right there.

So the question becomes whether we want such an efficient farming build available to the casual player... But honestly, with the overall increase of cash drops in Factions & general ease of making money there, I don't think the Tyrian 55 model is even as relevant as it used to be.

Finally, Protective Spirit is a very important part of PVP. They grumble enough about having to share skill balances with us PVE scrubs - imagine the outcry if we shattered their metagame to nerf a farming build?

First of all not everybody will agree with you, so the 'we, the players' is a bit over the top.

Next other classes also have solo farm builds, saw a movie of a solo ranger barraging Witman's Folly in no time. Warriors can solo farm too. So If you nerf one solo build exploit, you should nerve them all.

The 55 build is a brilliant piece of skill and insight in the game, gratz to the one who discovered it. I find it fun to play from time to time and it makes my monk more versatile.

Not signed

I have to agree with paperfly. The 55 HP build is not as prevalent as it was, it's now been superceeded by multiple builds from multiple professions. Best way to solve it, just like trolls or animals, bots should not be fed.

I assure you warriors will never make the same amounts of gold as bot monks.

by making huge amounts of money and selling it for real $$$, you creat an "upper class" which can buy anything for imaginary amounts, leaving everyone else behind. (you can think of it as if your goverment started printing out cash to give to it's officials).

more gold circulating -> your gold can buy you less.

This issue has been discussed many, many times.

Personally, I don't believe this is an exploit, I think it's a clever build. Using superior runes to reduce health and then using a combination of skills to make one almost invincible...pure genius.

Yes, I do have a 55 monk, mesmer and necro but I rarely farm with them these days. If 55-ing gets nerfed then it makes no real difference to me. The reason why I don't want to see it nerfed it's because of the how the build was put together.

Botters and ebayers are round but they don't affect my gameplay or my wallet, I don't see how they do.

If Anet nerf 55-ing, then botters will just switch to other professions and builds (e.g. warriors) and the nerfing will continue, making it worse for the non-gold selling farmers.

/unsigned

I have seen a warrior kill a mob of trolls faster than most 55hp monks i have seen. All they will do is make bot programs for warriors instead of monks. If a warrior can kill trolls faster than a monk then surely they will make gold faster? Warriors can farm both drok and elona which are popular bot locations.

There is very little point in nerfing skills which will have a big effect on pvp when all that will happen is other builds become popular for botting.

O and btw the prices to buy gold are really really low. Surely if it is low prices more will be bought. However, the price of items in guild wars is at an all time low. I have never seen so many weapons sell for virtually nothing. Only items where bidding wars will take place are for the really high end ones but even with botting banned people can buy them. Tons and tons of people have made millions without buying gold.

I can see the flamethrowers are being loaded for this one already. Anyway it won't get fixed because the monkbot army uses it. They get banned, no big deal they just buy more copies = more money for NCSoft/Anet. Cynical thinking and I can't prove it but you can't argue the farming army ends up buying more and more accounts to replace the ones banned.

It is arguably an exploit because of the use of 5 Superior Runes. In other words use of two identical ones.

It's not rocket science - Super Runes the idea is you get a benefit (the stat boost) but you're ALSO supposed to get a penalty (the health loss). The more Superior/Major runes you use the more stat boost, but the overall health penalty applies too. Exceptions of course are vigour and absorption.

Now the 55 turns this idea of penalty upside down, deliberately wanting more penalty so it can be turned into a net bonus using PS. That's why I think it's arguably abuse as you're deliberately using what is plainly meant to be a penalty, as a bonus (which comparing to general rune useage, was seemingly not the intent)

Just in case someone brings it up the "superhigh hp monk" is similarly abusing low level/starter armour for that.

There's also the quote from Gaile which suggests Anet are not opposed to farming but they think it's unreasonable/unfair to be able to solo high level areas, but that's another topic.

I solo parts of UW with my warrior as many people before did. Troll cave, gryphs doesn't matter at all. The warrior is almost as good as the monk in solo farming purposes.

Sure. try to write a bot which does that. try to write a bot that can make it's way to the spider cave. the problem is with zero-skill farming build.

But you'll have to admit it's a thin line.

In terms of how the game is intended to work I would say it's almost begging for some kind of nerf.

But if Anet thought it was a problem they would have 'fixed' it a long time ago - it would certainly ruin it for a lot of bots.

1. why should we nerf a build because its used by bots? other players are using 55hp, too. do u think they will be happy if it is nerfed?
2. it is not an exploit. the skills are put together cleverly.
3. if u nerf 55hp monks u also nerf 55hp elementalists, ritualists, necromancers, mesmers, rangers, derwish, paragon, assasine and warrior

excuse me for my terrible english

/unsigned

Bots seem to farm elona and drok troll cave tons and warriors can do it too and possibly faster. Warriors dont just farm the spider cave lol.

Might be a lot easier than you think it is.

DUH - I'm fairly certain you can't make a 55 build without using monk as one of your professions.

Then I bet you can tell that in the uw, solo warrior is much much harder, and require more skill then solo 55.


I was just naively thinking that if enough people would care, Anet would have to reconsider thier opinions about it.

nerf the 55hp monk and you will soon be bitching why are there no monk's around!

55hp and 600hp is about the onlyway monk's can solo places...

well, when they publish how many copies of GW are sold, I'ld bet everything I have ingame those figures include the industrial farming monkbot army accounts. Which is quite probably substantial. The cynical profiteer in me would do the same thing, ban the "offenders" but not actually do anything more. Makes good PR "Evil bots banned!" Oops, p.s. we also got more money from them buying more accounts Nudge nudge, wink wink

To be honest, as much as I don't like bots, I want to keep the 55. It's just such an interesting use of the mechanics that I really wouldn't want to see it go away. I've actually gotten two friends to buy the game just by describing it to them when citing extreme examples of how certain game mechanics work together, so it'd be rather terrible if it vanished.

If people buy the game because you can exploit the game mechanics something is definitely wrong, LOL!

A.net has tried to nerf 55 monks back with the prot bond what happened it worked. A few weeks later ppl started to see that you can just sub it out for prot spirit. Now the only way they can nerf 55 is buy changing that skill. Easily solved right no. If they change prot spirit they will face a whole lot of hate from the monk community, which im more then sure they dont want.

If they managed to get a workable prot spirit people will farm with warriors. Warriors farm just as fast compared to 55's at the hot spots I.E.troll cave and elonas reach. Point being people will adapt to the situation and figure out a just as easy farming build. What will happen then the gold sellers will still make money regardless of what they do.

There is no reason to change perfectly good skills just to deal with botters and hurt the real people that play your game.

What possible reason is there to have two identical superior runes? You don't get double the stat boost.

The only reason is to increase the health penalty so it can be abused by PS. Thus that's one possible contribution to a fix, as duplicate runes serve no (intended) useful purpose. The other suggestion about the -50hp focii seems reasonable too. Can always change the penalty on that item to something else. Neither of these changes would have any real impact on anyone else in any meaningful way.

No skills touched see?

While they're at it they might want to look at the minimum armour 600hp thing that's going on too. Same principle at work.

I'm positive that a BOT anything is going to make more money than a non-bot user, simply because most of us enjoy playing the game, not just farming.

What anet tried to do there was not to nerf 55, but to add some skill to it. they failed, and all I want is for them to add some more. removing the double penalty of two runes of the same attrubite will surly do it.

They never ended up making 55s. ^_^ They just got it because it's probably one of the more extreme examples of setting up mechanical synergies in the game. A point of interest, so to speak. ^_^

I'd say the best option is to just reduce the stacking health penalties. It's good for Anet, non-bots, PvPers

it gets kinda old hearing people bitch about nerfing 55 monks and saying that "they are zero skill builds"

Im gonna let you in on a little secret that everyone other than you already knows.. everything is zero skill once you do it over and over again.

when the 55 was new it was tough to get used to.... and now with all the game changes its even harder to play... and you think its all about pressing buttons..

maybee thats because you never pushed yourself into trying to farm with a little more danger involved.

try farming 20+ smite in uw as a 55 monk.. and when your health is throttling from 55-7 the whole time even through bonnetties.. and you have to pretty much rely on bonetties and good timing...most new monks would shit there pants.. then after you can do that on a CONSITANT bassis. then come and tell me that its no skill....

Or when energy managment is a key factor to your survival as a 605 or 55 monk. ya i would like to see a bot or a new monk come in and perfectly manage their energy for the next group, so they can move seemlessly from one mob to the next withought a break for regen or blessed..

when you can do that come tell me its a no skill build...

the soul reason you and a few other uninformed people assume that its not skill is because you yourselves probably run the build and think.. this is easy i can tank 3 attax no skills nessicary.. but try to run up and grab the mission.. then grab all the squid and 3 groups of attax while killing 2 or 3 mares. then prot your necro partner so he can run and grab some more aggro as you survive the bumrush of skullcracks flying your way from the squid. and finnally your necro kills them....

come down to uw and tell me or any other decent monk that is proud of what he does down there that it can be farmed with a bot just like we do it.. we will straight up kick you in the balls(if you had any)

when you can do all that you can call this build a no skill build.. other than that shut your damn mouth cause everyone is tired of hearing you pansy asses cry.

and if i could could i please get an AMEN from my fellow 55 and spirit bond monks that know when people say this is a no skill build.. that is just cause they aint partying hard enough.

I have to agree with the OP although I wouldn't say its an exploit but and unforseen use of skills and runes that results in a highly self-sufficient solo character. It shouldn't have been allowed to go on because its why Droks is riddled with bots and sweatshop farmers and Anet showed their disapproval by nerfing Prot Bond shortly after the 55hp build was discovered.

Most peoples' impression of Guild Wars is that each class has its uses, e.g. monks can heal, protect and smite; warriors can deal damage and take damage and rangers can trap, shoot arrows and control pets. We have 55hp monks and touch rangers and anet either can't be arsed nerfing them or approve of mindless, button-bashing builds.

Think of it this way, how much revenue have NCSoft/ArenanNet made from botters and farmers buying thousands of copies of the game? Nobody can say but I'm sure its a hefty amount which probably probably lines their pockets nicely.

From someone who farmed 22 million xp as a 55hp monk, I wouldn't cry if it was nerfed.

oooo, the heat!!



nicely said, makosi.

I hope they don'y nerf the 55 but just because they haven't yet doesn't mean they won't.
Look how long they left the warrior knights armour one piece absorption untouched - this was clearly not what anet had intended but they left it a long time to fix it.

Anyone else think there are less bots in factions than in prophercies
Is this because the botting of prophercies is already established - why bother moving ?
or could it be that because you can't be run in factions its a lot harder to get the bot army to where you want them

Why not just put a cap on the amount of gold one char can find in loot during 24 hours.
You could still get other drops - and still have chances for golds and purples which could be sold but you just couldn't rake in silly amounts of gold non stop.
Yes - this would upset legit farmers - but come on - if your legit you have to sleep for 8 hours while the bots don't.
Bots make their money from the gold coin drops - not the item drops - item drops take up inventory , need to be sold , humans have to vet for good ones if they want to sell.
The gold coins just keep stacking up.

There would be less overall gold in the game - but what gold would we be loosing.
We would loose that farmed by bots and then brought by ebayers.
Go on anet - give it a go - put a cap of say 25k per char per day. Who really needs this much anyway - so it takes 3 days (less if you get good item drops) to get your 15k armour , is that really so bad ?

I have an even better proposal, sell customised tokens that can be exchanged for:

1) a set of FoW armor (customised)
2) Req 8 15>50 Crystalline sword (customised)
3) Various 15K armors

What else do people buy gold on eBay for? There is NOTHING in the game worth buying. If Anet would just sell it directly, they can cut out the middleman (ie: the botters) and get to control the pricing of gold and various virgoods as well.

Somewhat blunt but also funny post there Narutoscryed but most importantly you're right. It takes skill and a lot of skill if you want to be a champion in it.

Like with the smites example, aggroing the first 10 aaxtes with 3-4 nightmares popping up at the same time has nothing to do with skill right.

As mentioned, if you kill 55hp builds another build will replace it; both for bots and for farmers. There are already a handful of builds across a few professions a bot could use to farm gold. A lot of real gamers enjoy using the 55 build, not just bots, it's a fun build and isn't this game supposed to be fun?

/unsigned

P.s. Great post, Narutoscryed. I couldn't agree more.

well, the sin is't really effective to solo and there is plenty of them around
And the question is: is it a good thing to be able to solo anything without even a hench or a teammate? when it comes to that, i'm not sure being able to rampage the luxon area alone with a ritualist is a good thing, either...

that's what makes a lot of casual players wondering how people manage to get that much money, and being told they have to farm like monkeys when they ask..
It's not a bad thing when you play diablo-like games, farming being the only entertainment they provide, but some of us still thinks GW is all about mission and teamplay..

anyway, let's face reality... the 55hp was a clever build the first weeks (who though that the monk could make any elementalist cry?)
but now it's just a well-known build used to farm things, and a bad surprise when you get one in your team in a miss... not like you have to be clever or anything to come with it...

Beating a dead horse is one thing, but hauling it out of the grave to beat it again and again is a bit much.

Enough is enough. Mods, please close this useless argument.

/signed. This argument is old and tired. please stop the dead horse abuse.

edit: also if yo uwere to adjust prot spirit, there goes almost every good available pvp monk prot build. and totally screws the game in all aspects. both pve and pvp

So basicly your argument is to nerf it because it can be botted, so to extend that argument list to you to all builds that can be botted.

noooo, wait, i dont have enough lifetimes to do that.