Will "Protector" titles influence Nightfall PuGs?

CHampion title tells it all. If someone has champion (1) he must have even some skills in gvg. (pug thumpways didnt invite random noobs from la eng1).
Champion 2 is gvg farmer with some skills.

You dont "farm" GvG imo.

But anyway thats my opinion.

Its not something that can be as lowered as that.

GvG is an event, something which will make you sweat and give you a fast hearbeat during its course, the excitment and fun, and fear of losing, the emotion of victory after a hard battle.

Its something you cant call as farming.

Farming is usually something boring, repetitive and that you do without problems or difficulty once you master it, usually almost always the same way.

GvG is always different and unexpected, thats because your almost always completelly blind towards what kind of group you will face, what type of tactics they will use, its always different and so addictive and exciting to many people, that over coming a hard gvg, winning it is a great feeling.

You just cant call it farming, even if your champion lvl 5 or whatever is the max for that title.

Anyway im going a bit offtopic.

LOL?

I completely agree, i nearly have the grandmaster title on my ranger, im at 99,6 % and i know the pain that it is.
Only once you start going for this title will you trully realize how hard it is.
It shows that the person with 100% is patient and at least knows the maps (after hours of wall hugging), and has done every single important mission( including both Kurzick and Luxon sides )

I personnally, think that Protector titles and Champion titles do
mean something, it means they spent time on doing every single bonus, which can be a hard deed (take me for example, i completelly henched Ring of Fire bonus the other day, it means something at least i think), and takes loads of patience and devotion. (note I made that in bold, these 2 things are the important thing of pve, and pvp)

The Champion title, what to say about this one lets see: Winning 50 high rated matches isnt easy, and you cant "run" gvgs just like you run a mission.
In GvG every player makes the difference. Every player is a valuable asset in this 8 maned team.
This title denotes that you were a person with team coordination, patience, and...TS ^_^, and so knew how to work with your team until you reached these 50 High rated GvGs won.

Looking at a person's rank is a decent way of finding out whether that player is a complete noob or not. At least i know a rank 6 player will not bring mending and healing hands in his build.

A pvp will always outperform a pve monk in all situations. They have better energy mangement and can withstand so much more shutdown and pressure. They will also usually have superior reaction times than pve monks. PVP is just a much higher level of play and those that pvp will most likely be decent at pve which is so much easer.

And for those that say the person could have just iwayed his rank....it still takes skill the run iway. If iway is so easy why dont you go try run iway and win the halls with it.

Good method.

I know another thing that instantly makes me leave someones team or kick the individual who does this(in case im the leader of that party)
Its when they say : OK LETS GOGOGOGOGOGOGO
These impatient idiots will usually rush off into mobs, and usually leave the party when things go wrong.

Yeah, same here. I wonder how many of the guys who have difficulty finding groups have 'cool' names and/or advertise for groups with leetspeek.

I sometimes think it would be interesting to make a kewl dewd named '| UR NUBZ |" & try to offensively leetspeek my way around tyria, just to see if that experience is different from using rp-names & actual English.
But then I sober up again.

Actually, sure a bit of formality can show maybe that the person isnt a complete idiot, unlike one particular jerk which i once saw spamming Heil hitler in pre sear, offending people and not being exactly polite if i remember right, that idiot trully pissed me off, i shouldve screenshoted his ass and emailed to anet to ban the noob fascist.

Anyway back on topic, did you ever think that their english writing skills could simply not be very good?

But if you see them with names like: I Own Your Mom, etc etc, they are most likelly people asking for a character ban, or maybe its their temporary pvp character.

I don't judge by titles or armor, there are a lot of jerks and fools which have 15k or titles.

Certainly, we'd all love to have top-end GvG monks in our PuGs. And that's because - judging by their shiny black 15K Kurzick armours - most of them have done an enormous amount of PvE and will clearly know enough about it to more than carry their weight.
Never mind that there's an enormous amount of utterly incompetent monks in HA and that you're essentially invoking the skills of a high level PvPer relative to a normal-to-n00b PvEer...

...The two skill bases are not linearly comparable. Especially when we're talking about PuGs. Even the highest level of GvG won't teach proper aggro management, how to compensate for idiots on your team, or even where to expect popups on each map.

Try playing a balanced GvG build that relies on mobility through Cantha, ignoring the fact that your enemies are five levels higher than you are, get cheap damage reduction, and outnumber you fifteen to one*.

The standard PvP troll post is that PvE is oh-so-easy because you can exploit the static enemy AI. Granted! Wich is great, as long as you're with people who know how that AI works in the first place! That is not a given if we're talking about someone who tries to join a pickup group on the basis of his PvP titles.


*we're not using PvE skills here - no aggro management, so you're expected to take on half the map at once.

Totally disagree with that comment. I play pve and pvp and in both I use energy management

I may reply if I ever stop laughing?

Yep, you should.
Well, there's more to leetspeek than simply bad spelling, and having "| Teh Azztroll |" spamming 'lfg 2 do ms & b plz NO NooBZ' is quite different from "Ruslan Podgornik" spamming 'anyon do mision und bonus?'

u no wot i mean, rite?

That's in PvE. In PvP I completely accept cute names and leetness - it belongs there. Hell, my PvP-only char is named 'Helpless Victim'.

Iam guessing Baz777 and paper doesnt pvp
Anyone that does pvp and pve will know that pvp requires so much more skill.

You have pvp experience and thats what I mean. If you just play pve, I doubt you know how to manage your energy. Build like boonprot (effective healing skills and energy management) comes from pvp and it works too in pve.

And whats wrong with pvp players play pve (or maybe pve players who also play pvp)? doesnt it mean these players (like me) who play both are better than people who just play pve or pvp?

<<<Protector of Tyria
<<<Tyrian Pathfinder (70%)
<<<Skill Hunter (1, 90 elites)
Can anyone say I have not shown skill by earning these titles? The Skill Hunter one in particular was REALLY difficult to get. I will be Advanced Skill Hunter by the time Nightfall comes out though. (oh im so cool xD)
but seriously, titles will affect nightfall, and they should. I mean, what do you guys think they're there for in the first place?

I dunno with customizable heros, people may never play with each other again :P I personally will only have KOBD's in my parties from now on! LMAO

Yeah, i really do think it will make a big difference. I was in a mission and was called a noob becuase i let a mesmer in (mesmers don't fit the build apparently) in which they continued to whine and complain about how the group was split and how i didn't know what i was doing. Interestingly enough, we beat the mission anyway even after 2 of them left the game. What's really sad to me is the builds that people have in thier mind as to be the leetest builds becuase they only know how to press a certain set of buttons. Most PUG's i find don't even know how to use thier skills outside of a few cookie cutter builds. Some great examples, necros that can only mm, ritualist that can only ritlord, eles that can only do fire, monks that can only go heal, tanks without any stances....

Not to me, when forming pugs I don't require any titles of any sorts. I do mostly pugs and not seen a request to show a title either to join one.

That's pretty bottom-of-the-barrel even for pugs. Have you tried being a bit more selective in forming your groups? It's not that hard to form relatively competent pugs.

This is an interesting discussion. I have very few titles if any, yet I have every Elite skill in the game for each one of my PvE primary professions.

Furthermore I don't do PvP very much, yet I am confident that I can sustain an average PUG group even if I am the only Monk in an average 8-man party. I am confident in my Monk skills and I do no disappoint those I play with.

Also the top three players I have personally played with all had 1.5k armor; some of the armor was even mismatched. Furthermore they had no titles.

Do titles mean anything to me?
NO (but I’m happy for you if you have them)

Do I care about your PvP experience for PvE?
NO (Monsters do not rage quit or get 007 errors)

Do I care what Armor or type of Armor you have?
NO (and I don't want to know what type armor you have as long as its the maximum, and you play your Armor style to the best of your ability)

What do I care about?
The only question I will ever ask someone is what Elite they have loaded right now. Knowing someone’s Elite skill will tell me a bit about what build they might be doing or how they use their skills.

EEK! Don't get me wrong i do PUG's all the time. Of course i can be selective about who i bring, but there is a noob in every bunch just as well. It's actually pretty tough to get groups in factions, especially some of the latter missions. Unwaking waters, hatchery and such just have no population to choose from. None the less i turn to guildies first, PUGs second and hench as a last resort, unless I'm doing things that are just easier to hench it then deal with leavers.

I don't think anyone anywhere can deny that in general someone with at least protector title will offer a more advanced player then not. But no, I don't exclusively look for that.

prof: Mo/x (title [email protected])
titles: Tyrian master cartographer
Canthan master cartographer
Fierce Gladiator (71 points)
Advanced skill Hunter
Protector of Tyria
Protector of Cantha

The Protector Titles are disproportionatly easy to get. Assuming you have already beat the chapter, you will have 2/3 of the bonuses already finished. Spend an extra 10 hours replaying the remaining bonuses and you have yourself the protector title.

Advanced skill hunter averages about 20 mins a cap. 180 skills takes about 60 hours, also considered easy to do. (use bosses elites map found on web)

Grandmaster titles are ridulously time consuming, especially Tyria. You are looking @ +100 hours each title. Of the PvE titles this would take the most skill to do efficiently(excluding the legendary survivor title).

Gladiator title average about 3 hours per gladiator point. 25 points = 75 hours just to get to the 1st gladiator title. Unlike PvE titles these titles take much more skill to attain.

You can't compare PvE and PvP monk. Pve monks are all about energy management and taking the right skill set for the mission. PvP monking is about survival, kiting, and experience (knowing what build your opponent are runnning by there secondary proffesion. ex: W/e, R/w,N/me, R/n)

Titles mean nothing to me when forming groups and I've never seen anybody use titles as a requirement to join groups (PvE). I just choose people that can communicate well, listen, be effective and benefit the group. I find it kinda lame if people are looking for a person with a certain title to be successful in a mission or quest when they could possibly fail.

Titles don't mean anything. For all you know that guy was run through the game, or paid for a Masters completion group or something.

All that matters is skill.

Dont really care about any title at all..considering almost all of them can be obtained by getting run and/or carried through the game.
When forming parties i look at proffession,name(ppl with names like OWNED or anything with noobs in it i dont take)and after they join their attitude toward the group, if they are offensive or have an attitude i kick them. By far the worst ppl to find for a group are monks, because there is only a small percentage of them that will join and alot of them act like jerks, or like they are better than everyone else. If your a monk and u join my group acting like that, ill kick you like all the rest.

Titles aren't an accurate indicator of skill at all. A mediocre player can tag along with PUGs with good players in missions to get bonus/masters and that would dispute any claim that they achieved their protector titles with "skill" and "dedication"-- although, we wouldn't ever know.

As corny as it may sound, it's like judging a book by its cover.

henchway ftw..or play with friends...

Or they're in a hurry because they haven't left enough time to do the mission, and they end up dropping or leeching halfway through...

yea dude, thats how all groups should be. if more groups were like that then we wouldnt have so many retards thinkin they are gonna rock with their outdated scymbage builds

Title, much like rank, makes absolutely no difference to me when forming/joining a group. I do my adds or requests based off the local chat, where you can't see the title. I could just have a lucky title up because I happen to like it that day while hiding underneath is my KoaBD title, that they don't see. Picking party members in PvE based on title is as erroneous as basing it off of rank.

Not so much a jerk as closed-minded. Not all W/Mos are leroys, I would even go so far as to say that most later in game aren't. Most of the time my scondary is just whatever it was last without any skills from the secondary on it. Many many people use Mo as the secondary just for the reusable res. That a good way to think of the team right? Which is what you are trying to achieve?

Mo/W cause me worry though. But I won't reject them. I will ask what kind of build they are running or if they are a 55. If they are a 55, they are likely gone, but you still can't make any decisions based off profession without communicating.

Best to stick with henchies where you know exactly what to expect and what their 4 or 5 skills are so you won't be surprised by any diversity outside a cookie-cutter build.

I don't think many people will object to a non-protector monk with all the paragons and dervishes running around. That said, if you want to bring a wammo to my party, better turn on your protector.

Having finally gotten around to doing Factions missions with my multiple Tyrian characters, I usually prefer to form a PUG rather than join one because my goal is to get masters on the first time rather than having to redo missions to get additional skill points.

Titles have no influence when I am forming a PUG. First and foremost, I highly prefer that the player actually pm me per my request in all chat (rather than going blind self invite).

Here are the questions I ask:

1. What are your attribute levels?
2. What is your elite skill?
3. Casters only -- what skills are you using for energy management? Elementalists that answer energy storage get the boot. This question is not necessary for warriors, rangers, and assassins, because I can already tell if their energy is going to be ok based on the answers to the previous two questions.
4. What is your ressurection skill? Monks are exempt from this question. I recently just had to add this question to my list. I prefer 4 or 5 rez sigs and one or two hard rez in the group.

It is a bit time consuming but whenever I take the time to screen PUGs in this way, I never have any issues getting masters on a mission.

What? A PvP warrior won't take healing hands or mending, that's true, because he'll take all offensive skills. You just pointed the problem out yourself. That's not what you want to do in PVE. 16 axe and 11 str will get you this far in PVE - 0. You'll die like a red headed step-assassin if you take pure offense and condition/hex removal.
I would *rather* a warrior with mending and healing hands in my group, hell, it means he's already been to the ring of fire and knows he needs more than Eviscerate to survive.

As for your comment on PVP vs PVE on monks, I don't even see any material to support your comment, so I'll ignore it. PVP and PVE are different games, and that's all there is to it. Just because someone choses to play PVE doesn't mean that they're so stupid all they can do is spam flare or healing breeze with no energy management. Please.


Quoted for truth.


A good PvE monk will do both.


I don't think titles mean crap, though I've more than a few. Why? Anyone can leech or buy their way to a title, the only one not being like that - the cartographer title. Does that title show how skilled you are? Not, not really.. except maybe how well you can run away from a fight. I know from doing all the missions that there is at least *always* one person in the group that can't carry their weight. Why? It's a pug. And they're getting the master's/bonus just like you are.

Greetings,

Just had to comment here.

The Hero title is account based. Meaning that the person with one could have earned it playing shock warrior, a bunny thumper or interrupt ranger, or any other type of build without ever having played a monk, much less a healer. A protector or cartographer title, however, is character based. The person with those titles has had to play that character to earn those titles, showing that the person does have experience running that profession.

As far as a person's name or communication skills - it's never really been that much of a problem for me. Mainly because I don't form groups. I join them. But, that is only after trying the mission or quest a few times with henchmen first. First time is to get to know the quest, then two to four more times to try strategies to beat it. If a person's is leetspeaking too much or making too many off-color comments, I warn the group that they better start communicating with target calls and compass drawings because I then turn off local chat and team chat. If the group fails, then *shrug* I'll just finish out till party wipe, get another group, and try again.

Now, personally, I've never seen people demanding a title be shown to get into a group, be it mission or explorable. I don't base my opinions on a person's title either. The best way to determine if a person knows what they're doing in PvE, in my opinion, is to ask them what their build is. And yes, I know that the person could have simply looked up the build online, but at least they've given thought to the build and have decided they understand it enough to run it.

Besides, I love showing off my tyrian grandmaster cartographer title to myself. I sometimes just like to sit back and think about the fun (not sarcastically meant) that I had getting it. Like, trying to figure out, and then actually implementing, how to map the Dunes of Despair mission. Or, fully exploring from Drok's to Beacon's with a full henchmen group because I can't find anyone willing to devote the time to map it. Things like that.

As a final note - PvP titles and a /rank emote do not automatically mean that you're a good PvE player, just like having FoW armor doesn't automatically mean you're a good PvPer. It goes both ways.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

16 axe, 10 str, and a bar full of damage skills will get you everywhere in the game, and much better than the moron that took half a bar of self heals and defensive skills. If you've actually played warriors and honestly, *honestly* believe you need defense and self-heal, then I pity you, because either you or your groups are completely incompetent.

A good PvP monk is more likely to understand fundamental aspects of monking, such as positioning, focus swapping, kiting, etc. simply because PvP is much less forgiving of incompetence. Either you learn all of these things quickly, or you will die, repeatedly. PvE just isn't difficult enough to force this kind of learning in most players. I constantly find myself in groups with incompetent monks, but as long as you have a few other people who know what they're doing you'll manage to complete whatever mission you were doing anyway.

---

Titles are indicators of time invested, not skill. You have no idea how that person got their Protector of X title. Maybe they did everything with henchies, maybe they did it with a guild group, or maybe they had their friend run them through half the missions. The sad truth is that there often is no way to accurately determine player skill until you play with the person. Most GW players should be happy about this though, because otherwise they'd never be able to find groups. Ever. For anything.

That's so weird as I went through all of tyria and factions completion with my warrior set up with those attributes. I was not burdensome on our monks and never had any major problems. There is more to being a warrior than being a stance tank. Some warriors actually setup to do dmg.

The one title that will affect my decision is "Survivor." I won't take them on a pug mission if I see it.

Ever heard of stance tanks???
Do you even know what their job is??
Do you even have any idea how easy this can make a small partys objective be completed?
A stances tank, and i mean, a Good Tanker, will take the whole agro, usually evade nearly everysingle Physical atack [melee and ranged(yes the underrated evade arrows stances)], and make it much easier on the monks healing duty, while the casters nuke away.

I remember farming Green bosses in Sorrows furnace with 4 people.
All thanks to proper tanking, proper healing, proper nuking, and the ocasional MM which will body block with his minions(which is unrequired with a good warrior tanker).

-Lynxius

As others have already stated, your comments show a complete lack of understanding of basic game mechanics which can really help even in PvE.

Here's an example of just how dead wrong you are:

Some of my guildmates formed a team for masters through Nahpui Quarter last night and I decided to go with (cause this mission is fun) even though I already had masters for all my PvE characters. With only 5 guildmates going, we had to take on three PUGs and I carefully screened them to assure there would be no issues. The three PUGs were 2 barragers and a boon healer. The guild portion of my team consisted of 3 warriors, 1 barrager, and an order of pain/offering of blood/blood ritual/heal party/heal area necromancer. All the warriors and rangers in the team had 16 attribute in weapon mastery.

The warriors brought healing signet but did not use it much for the most part. What was more useful were the supplementary shouts we brought -- one copy of watch yourself, 2 copies of shields up, and a copy of charge. Also useful were the 2 copies of wild blow and the increased attack speed stances we brought -- frenzy or tiger's fury. The frenzy warriors did not have a swap stance. Sure we took a few deaths throughout the mission (probably 4 or 5 total for the team), but we rez sigged fast and the sigs recharged each time we killed a boss.

The damage output was insane and we mowed through the mission in 16:54 (for reference masters reward is 25 minutes or less) and this was without edge of extinction which we could have used to make it go even faster. 16 in your weapon attribute does take you far in PvE, because it allows you to just kill everything before the damage your team takes becomes a problem for your monk(s). The enemies were literally exploding so fast that having a ranger take 5 seconds to lay down winnowing was actually inefficient except at the boss areas. Having a blood bath and going at a blazing pace is what can make PvE fun. "Tanking" and taking over 35 or 40 minutes to do a mission only to get standard reward is not fun.


Monks who have PvP experience are better at PvE than the majority of monks who have never played PvP. This is a fact. I have seen some disgusting things on PvE monk bars (animate flesh golem, flare, firestorm, conjure phantasm, conjure nightmare, and numberous other skills that do not belong). I have seen a PvE monk have purge signet on their bar and actually use it shortly after a minion master had cast blood is power on the monk.

The example you give is for less than full parties to power farm green drops and does not apply to general PvE play. Even then, most of the power farming teams would be better off forming a powerful 8 man team (instead of 4) and completing the farming run two or three times in the time it would have taken them to complete it once with 4 people. Tanking IMO is best left to solo farming situations. A good warrior, even with 16 in weapon attribute, will still collect the aggro and take the hits for which their natural armor level is better able to handle but will actually kill the enemies in the process.

Lol.I bet you were great at holding those gears.

I know 'stance tanks' by their other name: "deadweight".

Farming is a fundamentally different activity from normal PvE play. Invincimonks are the staple farming tank build, but only a moron would take one on a mission.