AoE Nerf: Overkill - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Oct 2006 at 06:42 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

ive never been in a group and had one guy just randomly decide to run away, or attack a caster for no reason, or break aggro on a whim.

Well, they attack casters because they're squishier. The quicker you can decrease an enemies numbers, the less effective they will be. I would suspect that they break aggro because of AoE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

i agree with your analysis of the warrior's job, but the problem is PvE and PvP are remarkably different. i dhate to have to use the same kind of specialized build for pve as i do in pve, just to be able to be effective in beating missions, it takes a lot of the freedom out of what you can use and still be effective with. also, if i wanted to have PvE play be a lot like PvP, id just play PvP. there are people who dont like the way pvp operates and thus are there purely for the roleplaying/pve aspect of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amosvt

Ok, so basically make PvE like PvP right? Make your techniques the same and strategies the same? Ummm, no fun. This is why some people enjoy PvE more than PvP. They like the difference in how the game plays. Sure I like doing some AB at times, but I honestly would prefer PvE as long as I have somewhere new to explore new enemies to overcome. I don't want to play GW where every experience is the same...

Both of you do bring up some very good points. There are fundamental differences in PvE vs. PvP. I personally prefer PvE leaps and bounds above PvP because I'm not terribly competitive in nature. I personally like a good challenge, but I dislike it at the cost of stress and rage.

I would be more of a fan of the improved AI if it was at different levels with different enemies. For instance, you can go up against bug-like creatures with crappy AI, and they don't scatter even while being blasted with Firestorm. But, when you attack a group of centaurs, they are extremely intelligent and act closely like real human players. This I think would be a good medium. That way, if you favor a more relaxed play style, smash the bugs. If you want a challenge, go wreck a centaur's village.

Rabies

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

holy

26 Oct 2006 at 06:43 - 83

Everyone keeps saying AOE a lot here, but I think we need to narrow that down to what Guild Wars has always considered a scatterable AOE spell. They have always been Area Of Effect Over Time, and basically a spell that hits a specific location over a period of time at given increments. This is like firestorm where it hits every 1 second for 10 seconds. This is basically what I have called AOEot.

There are other AOE spells which are an instantaneous attack, or are conditional on such things as counter-attacks. These causing scatter just defeats their usefulness. Anet has never had these types of spells/attacks cause scatter, and I do not believe they intended to in this build. They have always used specific language when discussing updates. In this build, they say that the AOE scatter isn't triggered like it used to be and will only happen when when HP is low. This isn't broadening AOE scatter, it is actually narrowing it down to where it shouldn't happen as easily. I believe this has two goals for spells like Firestorm, Lavafont, etc. One is to make them useful again to deal damage without messing up the containment pattern your group is trying to achieve, and second to prevent these skills from being used intentionally to scatter enemies. I know that just earlier today I was using my Lavafont to keep melee enemies from swarming me, this change makes this less useful, but I don't have a problem with that. With my opinion of what Anet was trying to achieve, it doesn't make sense that ALL damage to low HP enemies causes scatter.

Like I said before, I believe there is simply a part of code missing which narrows this new scatter effect to damage from locational AOEot spells. It is just like the previous concept, that it narrowed it to AOEot damage which was shorter than two second intervals. Well, we are just missing our narrowing variable right now.

-

Valkyrian

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

SouL

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 06:44 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tickle

Great so now we are going to have 7 leeroys and a monk dedicated to keeping them alive.. "WTF you doing monk, heal...F*&KIN NOOB!!!"..."Monk Of Party has left the game"..:P

Best comment on the night right there.. nuff said!

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

26 Oct 2006 at 06:47 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoKi Foxfire

*dances* At least they didn't nerf Barrage yet either!

*hides his precious Barrage under a nerf proof bed*

Amen Brother Amen.

In any case, since Anet likes to make PvE so much alike as with PvP, perhaps someday we will see this sort of thing:

Thunderhead Keep Mission:

"IWAY group LF rank 3+ W/R and Orders Necro for mission, show rank before invite."

/sighs

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

26 Oct 2006 at 06:49 - 86

Before we continue to complain about the 'AoE Nerf', keep the following from Guildwiki in mind:

Monster AI is currently erratic. Monster will break aggro from one target if they take damage, but instead of re-establishing aggro (on the same target or new ones) they will get stuck on a target (to the point of just standing there doing nothing).

In short the AI is bugged at the moment.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

26 Oct 2006 at 06:50 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Decent argument, which is countered by simply pointing you to another large chunk of skills called snares. Snares are not a strictly kiting type of skill, they are meant to hold someone down while you wail on them. Keeps them from running. That's the idea. It now makes both types of skills more useful.

But of course! Having Crippled enemies makes them attack you even through SS and VwK. The Fire line was still ratehr usefull due to this argument. Now that spells like SS and VwK trigger it, there's no way to still deal damage to foes using those spells. Wonder if Empathy still works...
Anyway, SS is now nothing more then an Elite version of Pacifism. And that skill gets used a lot

Quote:

A warrior's job in PvP is to apply pressure. They give casters/healers something to worry about. In PvE, the warriors job was to tank/gather aggro. Why should there be two completely different jobs for the same class just because of the difference of fighting AI versus fighting humans? This difference in adaptive play style is the gap Anet is trying to fill here. That is what I love about it.

Soon, you will be able to be effective in PvE, and actually not be a complete joke in PvP. Your same strategies may actually work in both. This is what i find absolutely cool.

A warrior's job in PvE is tank. He has been given the highest armor for that. In PvP, they don't tank, and the armor just soaks up the small amounts of damage they get. Why there are 2 different jobs for the same class? Why are Monks healers or protectors? Why do Eles have (had) nuking abilities, Spiking, Warding and Snaring abilities? All classes have different jobs depending on PvE/PvP. Snares and Spikes for Eles in PvP, Nuking and Warding in PvE. Monks had the same jobs in PvP as in PvE. MM are used in PvE, Necros aren't used in PvP anymore. Also, you might want to look at the Warrior's Tactics line. It was pretty much meant to increase the warrior's durability even more while holding aggro. Yeah, add most of those skills to the junk pile too.

Also, PvP != PvE. And PvE'ers don't want PvP shoved down their throat, just as little as you PvP'ers wanted to PvE to get skills. Now look what you got, PvP unlock packs, easier way to swap chars, more armor and shield options, doubled Balth's Faction, increased Balt's Faction cap, ...
Yeah, you PvP'ers should be the ones complaining about what's going on in PvE...

Granamyr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2005

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 06:51 - 88

Someone tell me what the point is of this monster AI update? What is the benefit? It made a TON of people mad and there is no upside.

Please don't say it improved the difficulty of PvE. Monsters have always been a joke and this hasn't changed that. It just made things more tedious which is what the last AoE change did.

It won't drive people into forming more teams because for the most part, people hate playing the "find a party" mini-game for 10 minutes. Nightfall's heroes stand as a testament to how much people hate trying to find parties.

Farming and botting will always exist and their impact on the economy has become minimal at worst, beneficial at best. Besides, why should such a large part of the community suffer because of ANet's endless, unattainable pursuit of killing a few bots that will regenerate faster than a scattered Attaxe.

Lastly, the Marketing dept must be pulling its hair out. Here we are on the brink of a new release and ANet just alienated a lot of its farming fanbase.

Of course people will adapt....that's a given but it doesn't excuse how pointless it is for ANet to continually punish farming for practically no benefit.

Oh yeah, one more thing. We have a ton of new "stuff" with this update that I don't see a lot of you asking for. There wasn't a huge cry among the community for new damage animations and build saving templates. I'm not saying they're all bad but there are a lot of things that we've all been requesting since E3fE that still haven't been touched.....and I'm not talking about skill gems. The biggest one on my list is some kind of decent buying/selling tool. The constant selling spam is as dated as text-based MUD's. Why all this effort at providing things that hardly anyone is asking for while some major concerns STILL go unnoticed?

The Prince

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

[CnIm]

26 Oct 2006 at 06:52 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I would be more of a fan of the improved AI if it was at different levels with different enemies. For instance, you can go up against bug-like creatures with crappy AI, and they don't scatter even while being blasted with Firestorm. But, when you attack a group of centaurs, they are extremely intelligent and act closely like real human players. This I think would be a good medium. That way, if you favor a more relaxed play style, smash the bugs. If you want a challenge, go wreck a centaur's village.

I am not against an improved AI, i just think that randomizing isnt improving the intelligence at all. a huge part of the gameplay is tactics, i.e. casters not trying to tank, etc. and randomizing what youre fighting against, while seeming like a good idea, makes the game a lot more frustrating and unenjoyable because it takes a lot of that sort of gameplay out of the picture. granted, ive been hearing a lot of "if you cant adapt ur just a n00b, go away" in-game, which is expected, but frankly i dont see anyone adapting to an enemy that is random, not logical. while i dont want to see the melee monsters restricted to attacking tanks only and never running away or some other such nonsense, perhaps making them conform to a more logical, party oriented behavior, or one more suited to the regular average joe player out there, is better for the game. farmers might benefit, but i still dont see the harm in that, the more people farm greens etc, the lower the prices get. if some ppl buy and sell gold than tsk tsk on them but i dont think the whole economy needs to be nerfed to stop the bots and gold farmers

long rant over.

Rabies

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

holy

26 Oct 2006 at 06:58 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

Someone tell me what the point is of this monster AI update? What is the benefit? It made a TON of people mad and there is no upside.

See My Previous Post in this thread or just scroll up to see it.

Summary: It is probably bugged and they were not trying to make scatter happen more, but actually less... the damage which caused it just wasn't clarified in the code.

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ShazBo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

N/A

26 Oct 2006 at 07:03 - 91

Ya right now the monsters scatter and wait till they regen. Gaile Gray said that they're still working on balancing the game until the final Build on Friday.
There are still glitches such as the Green Staves not having any mods.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Oct 2006 at 07:09 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Also, PvP != PvE. And PvE'ers don't want PvP shoved down their throat, just as little as you PvP'ers wanted to PvE to get skills. Now look what you got, PvP unlock packs, easier way to swap chars, more armor and shield options, doubled Balth's Faction, increased Balt's Faction cap, ...
Yeah, you PvP'ers should be the ones complaining about what's going on in PvE...

Wow... I think I've just been called a PvPer. I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment, or an insult. I guess, it is just a title with no connotations, albeit completely false. Ah well.

So umm, you think that a warrior being considered a 'tank' in PvE and a pressure class in PvP is equivalent to a Monk being able to heal or protect (no matter the game type)? Odd relation. I would say a warrior could be an Axe-spiker or a Hammer-knockdown, or a Tactics-tank, no matter the game type.

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying the warrior has two completely different uses depending on the game type, PvP or PvE. No other class can truly say that, not to the extent of the core uses. Sure an Ele Air spiker has more use in PvP than PvE, that doesn't mean you're not ineffective at all as an Air Spiker in PvE. In fact, an Air Spiker can do pretty damn good in PvE.

The point is, you simply cannot 'apply pressure' with a warrior in PvE, because the AI simply doesn't treat threats like that the same way a human would. You can't 'tank' in PvP because humans are simply not stupid enough to huddle around one warrior whilst being pounded on from everyone else.

Granted, that causes certain skills to be useless, as they are. But once AI is at human-quality, those certain skills can be buffed, and altered to become useful in both PvP and PvE. Thus, the synergy between the two worlds.

As I said before, agreeing with others, that may not be the best way to go, but there can be alternatives, like what I listed about altering levels of AI. I don't like the idea of a super-intelligent zombie just as much as I don't like dumb-as-bricks human NPCs.

Sid Soggybottom

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

26 Oct 2006 at 07:13 - 93

Dude, all these complaints about the AOE changes would be valid if it werent for one thing: PVE is damn easy.

If I can go through most of the campaign with henchies then how hard can PVE be? The answer? Not very hard at all. I'm not saying that I'm perfect, in fact, I'm saying the opposite. And if someone like me finds the PVE easy, I dont think you all should complain so much about the "nerfs"

And for the love of god, try adapting and stop clinging onto the same old 55 and SS builds and the same strategies of warriors taking all aggro. Now you'll just have to adjust and bring some protection for the backline. Big deal.

Kidney Licker

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Europe Server

26 Oct 2006 at 07:26 - 94

I just went back to my old farming spot, not minotaurs or trolls, and there was no AOE scatter from SS in my area. Any1 else find this with their farming spots?

The new damage display is crazy, they should be accompanied with BOOINGGG sounds.

ischuros

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ireland

N/Me

26 Oct 2006 at 07:27 - 95

Just wait. Im SS in Uw sometimes and i want to know:

Does the AI still not recognise SS as a AoE spell. I understand that they would spaced apart now(Aatxes and the like), but they should hopfully converge on the monk who holds aggro. So my question is, does SS farming still work?

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 07:27 - 96

Well I tried out 55 farmign with just SoJ and uhh once they hit 1/4~1/6hp hp they run away and stay away... only re-agro once you attack them...

uh this kills everyones farming everywhere.

even W/Mo's trying to farm trolls with cyclone axe...

flaakmonkey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

San Diego

the Chaos Dragoons

R/Me

26 Oct 2006 at 07:30 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

They essentially destroyed half the users on the game.

Half of them use warriors, and these people haven't realized that it sucks for warriors, but they soon will.
The other half use classes that AOE, and are essentially screwed and are going to quit, largely because it's getting to the point where the entire base of playing the game has gone to nothing: if you can't make money and an economy does not exist, according to Adam Smith, nothing moves.

This is a huge problem.

Well this will make the 1 mil out of 2 (half the warriors) choose a real prfession now wont it

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

26 Oct 2006 at 07:33 - 98

Wooops, they did it again.
Well i was allways asking myself why they left SS out of the AOE Scatter and was happy that they didn't kill strategy completely. Now they've done and none too soon it seems. I have the slight feeling this will make me think twice about making my dervish -.-

I just hate it when the mobs run left and right and turn everything into utter chaos. It's annoying, frustrating and takes the purpose out of builds completely. Please, have them run from a warrior too, i'd just love to chase them around the map. Oh and please, make them run from staring at them too. And while you're at it, why not make them run if they're outnumbered and give them some solid speedbuffs and selfheals? RA Runner Syndrome for everyone, isn't it fun? Well normally just for the runner so i guess the AI gets some fun now.

Blackhawk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/

26 Oct 2006 at 07:33 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidney Licker

The new damage display is crazy, they should be accompanied with BOOING sounds.

Thought I was playing a FPS myself, I dont need some humongeous animated numbers blocking my view, whats coming next? "Multi Kill" with a Nuke??......

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

26 Oct 2006 at 07:34 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Wow... I think I've just been called a PvPer. I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment, or an insult. I guess, it is just a title with no connotations, albeit completely false. Ah well.

So umm, you think that a warrior being considered a 'tank' in PvE and a pressure class in PvP is equivalent to a Monk being able to heal or protect (no matter the game type)? Odd relation. I would say a warrior could be an Axe-spiker or a Hammer-knockdown, or a Tactics-tank, no matter the game type.

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying the warrior has two completely different uses depending on the game type, PvP or PvE. No other class can truly say that, not to the extent of the core uses. Sure an Ele Air spiker has more use in PvP than PvE, that doesn't mean you're not ineffective at all as an Air Spiker in PvE. In fact, an Air Spiker can do pretty damn good in PvE.

The point is, you simply cannot 'apply pressure' with a warrior in PvE, because the AI simply doesn't treat threats like that the same way a human would. You can't 'tank' in PvP because humans are simply not stupid enough to huddle around one warrior whilst being pounded on from everyone else.

Granted, that causes certain skills to be useless, as they are. But once AI is at human-quality, those certain skills can be buffed, and altered to become useful in both PvP and PvE. Thus, the synergy between the two worlds.

As I said before, agreeing with others, that may not be the best way to go, but there can be alternatives, like what I listed about altering levels of AI. I don't like the idea of a super-intelligent zombie just as much as I don't like dumb-as-bricks human NPCs.

I was talking in general, PvP'ers vs PvE'ers, and their feeling towards another. Yes, you can apply Pressure as a Warrior in PvE, but you can't atnk in PvP. Seriously. The only Tactics Tanks in PvP you'll see are noobs in the RA.
The Warior's Tank/Pressure in relation with Monks was that every profession has multiple uses, one being more usefull in PvE then PvP. Bonders for example are pretty much PvE only, and only in small parties.
In PvP, the Warrior's job is Pressure. Ripostes and Evasive stances have no use in PvP. Monks may be a bad example, but let's look ta Necros. What rae they used for in PvP these days? Order and Tainted Necs as Damage buffers to the team, or Blood Spike. The Only place you see Order necs in PvE is TotPK, Tainted ones are pretty much non-existant. Other uses for necs in PvP: non-existant. In PvE, we have MM (nerfed hard before, AI affected Melee minions too so they're now like mobs spreading damage instead of focussing on a single target, which could be considered a nerf too), SS necs (nerfed) and the occasional experimental Curse necro. Blood Spike is arely done unless vs high-armoured foes, in which case the SS or MM would dish out more damage.
Also, the only way to buff said skills would be completely overhaul them. No way to focus aggro = no need for evasive stances or skills that increase your AL ("Watch yourself", "Shields Up" would still be usefull though).

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

26 Oct 2006 at 07:37 - 101

If guildwars is nothing without 55/SV ecto farmers slaving over globs all nite then it really wasn't a good game to begin with was it? I refuse to believe that, im glad 55/SV is gone so that us normal people have a chance at FoW. UW was rotting anyway. Farming was ruining the game, it just turned Gwars into a massive grind for gold fest. Farming IS grinding, so how can they advertise a skill based game if all you do is farm globs all day? I believe they will tweak the AI, so its time to put the pitchfork down and pick up the sword for once.

DZ007

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

26 Oct 2006 at 07:40 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

And how is this any different from the way people act in PvP? Randomization is the closest thing AI can come to the sometimes irrationality of the human mind. I dare you to program it better. Besides, humans might as well be considered random, since when you face one guild, their strategies are completely different from another guild, and although they may appear to have similar teams, they will act completely different, thus a sense of randomness.

A warrior's job in PvP is to apply pressure. They give casters/healers something to worry about. In PvE, the warriors job was to tank/gather aggro. Why should there be two completely different jobs for the same class just because of the difference of fighting AI versus fighting humans? This difference in adaptive play style is the gap Anet is trying to fill here. That is what I love about it.

Soon, you will be able to be effective in PvE, and actually not be a complete joke in PvP. Your same strategies may actually work in both. This is what i find absolutely cool.

ok hold on here....so what you're saying is that...they SHOULD be making PvE exactly like how PvP is??? how the HeLL did you figure that would work? PvE monsters can come in groups of 20s and 30s against your group of 8, not to mention MOST of them are of a higher lvl than you (lvl22-28). So in order to make PvE more "fun" in your theory, they should be making each of those monsters better than HA players but with 3 times the size and higher lvls????

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but in my exprience most gw players suck at gw, the majority of which don't come to forums like these, and never learn how to make themselves useful. How do I know this? just go see a mission, 5 out of 6 groups who attempt the wilds will fail, and most of the random groups in the missions never finishes it. and in alliance battles, 3 guildies and I owned a mob of 12 players who tried to mob us. you are expecting THESE people, who are the great majority of the players out there, to fight huge mobs of monsters with lvls higher than them with skill levels equal to those of the ppl who make it into HoH???

and if they did, what reason would there be in playing PvE? if you wanted to play PvP then just PvP, PvE is supposed to be something completely different, it's supposed to a group working together to complete an objective, to have fun, to kill dragons like rotwing and glint, to get good items and make the players feel good, not competing against other players to see who is better. that's why we have PvE, so we can get AWAY from PVP.

FloatingLakes

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2006

26 Oct 2006 at 07:52 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

If guildwars is nothing without 55/SV ecto farmers slaving over globs all nite then it really wasn't a good game to begin with was it? I refuse to believe that, im glad 55/SV is gone so that us normal people have a chance at FoW. UW was rotting anyway. Farming was ruining the game, it just turned Gwars into a massive grind for gold fest. Farming IS grinding, so how can they advertise a skill based game if all you do is farm globs all day? I believe they will tweak the AI, so its time to put the pitchfork down and pick up the sword for once.

You make a statement, and then you refute yourself? How is Guild Wars nothing because of that. Jeeze, with factions greens the average player can aquire almost any type of weapon they want, all perfect mods. If you hate farming so bad, DONT DO IT. Think about it, how does other people farming truely affect you? Guild Wars has made it so that anybody can compete with anyone else with the respect to weapons/gear/skills. A rich farmer can being wearing obisidian armor and wielding his 15^50 crystaline while ur standing there in 1.5k droknars and a customized spatha DOING THE EXACT SAME DAMAGE.

ectospasm

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

26 Oct 2006 at 07:55 - 104

why are they nerfing and nerfing and nerfing EVERYTHING associated with farming? the dervish will probably now trigger AoE scatter ruining a potentially deadly solo farmer. I have a rit, ss & 55. havent had time to try them out since the update. but if what people say is true, then what was all that bullshit about ANET not having a problem with people farming for personal gain/gold/items but was the bot farmers and people selling gwgold for real money that wanted to put a stop to.. i swear i read a post by gaile saying that. then why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing nerfs to perfectly good solo builds/spells? its hard enough to get gold just casually playing, pretty soon any reason to play PVE after finishing the storyline will be steamrolled. i swear i spent 40-50k on my 55 monk just to get ready to farm with. not including the time i spent getting all the skills. but anyway whatever.

and i totally agree with DZ007 about PVE & PVP needs to be two totally different experiences. skill nerfs included.

Blackhawk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/

26 Oct 2006 at 07:59 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by ectospasm

and i totally agree with DZ007 about PVE & PVP needs to be two totally different experiences. skill nerfs included.

Been saying this for months.....

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Oct 2006 at 08:07 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ007

ok hold on here....so what you're saying is that...they SHOULD be making PvE exactly like how PvP is??? how the HeLL did you figure that would work? PvE monsters can come in groups of 20s and 30s against your group of 8, not to mention MOST of them are of a higher lvl than you (lvl22-28). So in order to make PvE more "fun" in your theory, they should be making each of those monsters better than HA players but with 3 times the size and higher lvls????

Of course not. But I wouldn't mind a boss like that, surrounded by piss-ant dumb goons. I wouldn't mind that at all.

As I said, I don't like the idea of every mob in the game acting exactly the same, with the same level of intelligence. Different AI levels FTW.

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

26 Oct 2006 at 08:29 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

I agree completely. while both modes are fun, making PvE like PvP will mean a few things. first, it severly limits your choices for builds/skillsets in order to be an effective party member, meaning you'll have to use the same sort of specialized builds you see in PvP in order to find a party willing to accept you in PvE.

Last time I checked, in PvE:

Warrior = tank, should NOT deal damage
Ranger = barrage
Necro = SS or MM
Ele = meteor shower nuker
Mesmer = wtf dont be stupid

Seems to me like the current PvE mindset is very narrow. If PvE becomes more like PvP, you'll have more choices of builds, not less.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

26 Oct 2006 at 09:18 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Last time I checked, in PvE:

Warrior = tank, should NOT deal damage
Ranger = barrage
Necro = SS or MM
Ele = meteor shower nuker
Mesmer = wtf dont be stupid

Seems to me like the current PvE mindset is very narrow. If PvE becomes more
like PvP, you'll have more choices of builds, not less.

Not really. Builds now were around the principle of killing the stupid high-leveled mobs ASAP. The builds you list are the most common ones, but far from what everyone runs. Unlike PvP, the battlefield in PvE could change, where a Ranger bacomes more usefull as a Trapper, a E-denial Mesmer is needed to kill that Monk boss (i'm looking at you Willa), Ele Nukers's damage gets reduced (Hell's Precipice + Fire without Winter= bad), a Mesmer does a better job anti-melee then anti-caster, ...
PvP builds rotate around the principle of countering builds without knowing what they are, be prepared for anything, even if you have to saccrifice some othe rusefull skills. Therein lies the great difference with PvE. In PvE, we know what skills the mob have, and we know how to counter them, and what skills to take to counter them best. As such, the PvE build are and will always be more limited then PvP ones. In the same way, most groups want to get through an area as fast as possible (enhanced greatly by Factions'
Bonus = kill speed time gogogogo), and the builds you listed happen to be the
ones that kill fast through most mobs and are easy enough for the biggest idiot to use. PUGs in PvE have varying quality, from bordering retarded to highly effective. The builds cause the PUG's effectiveness to rise to acceptable levels, which is why those builds were popular.

DOCB22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

[SGC]

26 Oct 2006 at 09:40 - 109

anyone care to explane why mods scatter when you use cyclone axe or triple chop?

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

26 Oct 2006 at 09:41 - 110

Im all for anything that riles pvescrubs up

Kraiden

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2006

Australia

R/N

26 Oct 2006 at 09:46 - 111

with the nerfing of AOE attacks, they have made The main drawcard for nightfall, the Dervish, utterly useless.

It makes me regret pre-ordering nightfall now, since it's lost one of it's main drawing card.

kade

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Currently residing in ToA dis 1

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 09:48 - 112

For all you complaining about the impossibility of farming now...its no harder than it was previously...you just can't pull 30 mobs at once and kill them all in 8 seconds (if you think that's an exaggeration, you've never been shuriken *sp farming). That being said, ty anet for improving the game.

ps (there are a few minor issues to be worked out, namely mobs idling for much longer than they should after fleeing, but I'm sure these problems will be worked out in time.)

bigwig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Nova Scotia

#Dismantle

26 Oct 2006 at 09:51 - 113

Lets wait until we see what effect it has on the dervish before deeming them "useless".

Pupu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Left gw..yawn

W/N

26 Oct 2006 at 09:57 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCB22

anyone care to explane why mods scatter when you use cyclone axe or triple chop?

its an aoe skill, it hits everything around like an area of effect

noir0

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

26 Oct 2006 at 10:02 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

Im all for anything that riles pvescrubs up

Hehe.

Thing is, if this is actually what anet wanted for pve (which i doubt since it's been said multiple times that the ai is BUGGED at the moment). Then you can look forward to them looking towards pvp for some 'changes'. I wouldn't get so smug if i was you.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

26 Oct 2006 at 10:06 - 116

The QQing in this thread is phenomenal. I wonder if this will be even better than the original AoE nerf.

Jugalator

Site Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2005

Sweden

The Amazon Basin [AB]

26 Oct 2006 at 10:08 - 117

It only makes sense monsters would want to scatter for AoE skills that's active over a duration. If a farming build is based on illogical behavior with brain dead monsters glaring at you from a 1 inch distance while standing in an AoE effect and scratching their bums, I couldn't really care less.

As for AoE skills not over time like Cyclone Axe and Dervish attacks, I hope these won't be hit too hard, and that some AI polish could be applied here if they are. It's one thing to having to employ tactics like monster slowing to force monsters to stay in AoE for a longer time, it's another thing for them to have almost inhuman reactions to AoE attacks.

ignis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Norway

Rus Corp

Mo/

26 Oct 2006 at 10:08 - 118

looks like anet bolloxed up again. one day they will understand that fuсking with players on a scale that large doesn't do the game any good, but it will be too late.

Mahanaxar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Italy

Lupus Et Agnus

R/

26 Oct 2006 at 10:09 - 119

Wow, again with this AoE BS.

Some random points:
-If I want a real challenge, I have a lot of pvp options.

-I don't do PvE for the challenge, but to buy things and unlock skills. Updates like this don't make the monsters smarter, just annoying.

-This AoE nerf is supposed to stop the hardcore farmers, but they will find another way, as ALWAYS. But the "regular" PvE (quests and missions) is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed AGAIN, like it was after the first AoE update. I remember Thunderhead Keep after that update, and it was a pain. Not hard, just utterly frustrating.

-Breaking news for the "LOLZ noobs now you have to use your brain" muppets: there are FIVE different PvP options where you can face *shock* enemies with a real brain.

-If they wanna nerf any kind of solo farming so bad, at least give some decent loot to full teams, not 700 golds and 2 white non-max weapons from a mission, wich requires an hour now.

RiNuT

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

Mo/Me

26 Oct 2006 at 10:10 - 120

A-net just killed the game

A little nerfing ok but bring out a compleet new game that doesn't remotly have the gameplay we are used to is something else.

Thx A-net you just lost a happy gamer. Time to move on i gues
waste of money on Nightfalls for me

Samueldg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Colorado

N/Mo

26 Oct 2006 at 10:10 - 121

Get ready " Iway LFG 4 mission"......................