Has the fun been nerfed?

That post should be in the log in screen so that rich hoarders will stop making the argument that people shouldnt be able to obtain anything they want in this game. The keyword is "obtainable" for those who will say that we just want things "handed" over.

Yeah lol tell me about it! I've been trying to cap skills in Mineral Springs the last day and a half, and that's the entire problem on the entire map! I don't even GET ONE HIT IN! Read this carefully, I DO NOT get ONE hit on the enemy and they start to run off! All I did was target call for my henchies to start attacking it, and by the time we all react, the damn bird is out of my sight heading past the next group, I have to quickly call off and retarget. No this doesn't happen everytime, sometimes I do get a hit or 2 in before they run, sometimes they won't even run. But I have a feeling that it is bugged myself. Let me straighten this out before you start harrassing me, I DO NOT farm. period. I hate the being alone, killing countless enemies for (like someone else said) worthless loot. And like the OP, yes I will go to the FoW or UW but for other reasons than farm. I'll go to the Forgemaster, kill all the monsters on the map, open all the chests, and do all the quests we can. Yes I am glad that this update is ruining farmers, but not at the expense of everyone else. Maybe those soloers will finally realize that there are other people to play with, hell you ARE in a guild for a reason no? And cry me a river if your "Farming guild" is destroyed from this. What's the point of having a farming guild if you all spend 90% of the time as loners anyway?

So you want me to just incorporate another skill to slow the enemy down eh? Let's see, I already have a self heal, a defensive skill, condition removal, hex removal, rez, speed buff (to help me run to or from an enemy already) and now a form of crippling my enemies movement. That leaves me one attack skill to spam endlessly. Seriously though, My copy of NightFall hasn't come in yet, so perhaps with the customizable hero's I could have a crippling ranger, or burdening mesmer, along with good monks. That way my bar is freed up for more damaging skills. And btw, no, that's not really what my skillbar is made up of. I was being sarcastic. But until NF comes in for me, I'll have to keep using the boring same henchies that are provided for me. Sure I could use real people, but I leave the pugs for the missions, where it really counts. I don't need to take 2 middle schoolers, 2 high schoolers, a cranky old man, and 2 dropouts who are probably high on that shtuff* to draw on the minimap, spam target calling, start hollering in caps at all the youngens, and seeing "your mom b**ch" on my screen just to go cap SoJ. Anyways that's my rant for now lol!


Edit: Oh and by the way, just in case my point wasn't clear enough in the above rambling. I like the idea of A-net making the AI smarter. Just don't make them dumber in the process. I don't use cookie cutter builds because they don't make cookie cutter builds for the average joe. That's saved for the mindless PvPer's and farmers. Lol, i know i'm picking on you guys, but for a reason! I feel that some of you who are saying to grow up, shut up and adapt aren't really taking the time to check out what the fuss is all about. In reality, if it does not get changed, so what? I'll be getting NF in the next day or 2, and then i'll have better AI hero's to take along with me that can counterract[(sp?) I don't know someone check my spelling OMG I spelled something wrong!] this and any other challenge A-net throws at me! I'm a man, not a mouse!... Or a chicken! lol

To OP:
YES..Yes it has.

i find a good bleed or poison works as well as a slow for me. they run, i let them, they die anyways while i kill their friends.

A voice of reason in a sea of fools

Thats because the bot programmer only had room for 2 words in the code - You Buy?

I abused the weak AI and farmed as 55hp with and without SS for 10 months - 25 million xp to be precise. It was fun and my 'skill' [<--debatable word] is now rendered useless. My monk as a 55hp is redundant.

Do I care? Not really. Keep an eye on the farming section of the PvE forum and something new will pop up and you can take advantage of it as your source of income. Keep in mind that you aren't the only one that has had their gameplay affected by the patch.

Do you continue to attack someone when you know that you are going to die?

yeah, cos when you run they crit ya and you die.

Are you really trying to apply real life logic and reasoning to a game where you summon fireballs from your finger tips, raise minions from the dead and ressurrect people from the dead?

sounds like christianity.

exactly, i mean they are MONSTERS! not PEOPLE.
people: should realise when aoe is hitting them
monsters: should be too hungry to care
people: give you faction and enjoyment from beating their stupid builds into the dirt
monsters: give you enjoyment by dropping loot for unlocks and money

note: if i want to kill stuff for no loot, ill go play doom.

So go play Doom then.

The monsters of Tyria (The world, not just the continent) are not merely ravenous monsters. They are intelligent enough to know the same skills Humans use in the game.

I dont understand where the 'AoE' nerf complaint has come from! oO

mobs used to run away as SOON as you hit them with AoE, and now they will stand in it for a bit before the 'self survival' kicks in... this isnt a nerf, this is a buff for all ele who moaned about the original nerf.

As for the kiting..

I just gota laff at people complaining about this, so stuck in their ways, unable to adjust, stubborn!

If they just monitored the situation they would notice that only certain monsters within any given 'group' will kite.. usually ones with lower armor.

I use this to my advantage, send koss to chase the monk/ele whatever, while I pounds on the monsters that dont kite.. very often they over extend! making them easyer to kill...

I love the new AI, it makes for more more fun and intrique.. at last there is a reason to take some skill which cripple xD

This whole 'AoE Ner' nebate is really laughable. So far this weekend I have been using my ele to run a Earth DoT AoE damage build and have found far greater success with it than I ever did with a Renewal or Echo MS nuker. Basically, I would find a group of foes, drop unstead ground, drop a ward against foes, then drop an Eruption. The end result was enemies that got KD when they tried to attack, then when that wore off then would walk around slowlytaking damage from Eruption and finally becoming blinded. Not only did I do more damage (since I had 2 AoEs going at once that dealt damage at a faster rate than MS), but I was also able to shut down many enemies and take a lot of heat off my party.

I would really suggest that people either try something new or just take one member into your party that can snare enemies (Water eles FTW!) rather than sit in a corner and pout because the AI now seems smarter than you.


As for farming, farming will adapt. I also believe it will become a lot less necessary since the implamentation of the insignia and salvage system will lessen people's reliance on farming big money to get the weapon they want.

True, they were better then any PuG monk though.

You know what ever happened in the honor of fighting to the death. Now that is heroic.

Well, after roughly 7 hours of Nightfall I've not noticed any nerf of my fun. As always, this is personal, I'm having as much fun as ever and at the moment probably even more because I'm trying to learn new professions.

the only fun left in the FoW after the stupid update.





-_-

Hahahah thats extreme, i bet that took forever to setup

Warriors bring hamstring
Rangers bring pin down

Get the picture, just add a special to stop, or slow them down. no big.

Wait a second!

Are you saying that Christians can summon fireballs from their fingertips and raise stuff from the dead? How could I have been a Christian for all these years and not known that?

Someone's been holding out on me, man...

Cow tipping is fun.

If youre a christian i doubt youl be happy to know what he realy means.(Though you probably know already)

Indeed

Time to close..?

oh no, now all the ppl with tons of time cant kill the same monsters over and over in a sleepy daze for massive profit. cry me a river.

So I see that after 8 pages the message has been lost.
Time to reread the opening remarks again I think....

I'm playing normally - not a farmer.
The monster AI is broken and it affects ALL PVE gameplay

To anyone who farms (for recreational use or a permanent basis) it now takes longer. To some people this is the important aspect - others not.

To anyone who does quests/missions it now takes longer and no I don't believe it has made the game harder/more challenging - just more frustrating.

Longer does not equal more fun.
Chasing after stuff across a map while it runs away is not fun...
Since when does a warrior run away from a mesmer??

I feel a nice middle ground is needed. I will try to explain this by talking about things i would like to see kept and things i would like to see dropped.. all relate to the new ai improvements..

For the things i would like to keep. before the nerf the baddies would run from 2 seconds or more of any aoe spells that deal damage.. this was an amazing way to have things done.. it means that the baddies are smart.. but not to smart.. i mean they are monsters and demons after all..

Now after the update.. They will scatter the second the spell is clicked.. that means it even discounts the 3 second cast time of some spells.. if you dont belive me.. go drop a meteor shower on a group that your monk is tanking.. they will scatter before the first meteor hits. and they will instantly go after the caster of the spell.. this needs to be fixed..

This to me seems very excessive. I mean the monsters would have to know every single spells animation and how it is related to the danger present to them for this to happen.. WAYYYY to smart for deamons and monsters.. this needs to be fixed.

Another annoying problem is the ai taking breaks to heal in battle.. all i know is that if im the bad guy.. and its thirty on one... im gonna go balls out.. expecially if my whole 30 man team is lvl 28 and the one person is only 20.. this needs to be fixed.

Now one would naturally try to slow the enimy group down so they cannot run from the aoe damage.. so slow spells would naturally be best.. whats 2 good slow spells.. ward against foes and grasping earth.. both cause a 50% decrease in movment speed of all ajdacent allies.. so that ammounts to 100% right???? WRONG the slow spells dont stack... only single target slows can get above 50%.. this needs to be fixed if they insist on having running aggro...

Now.. comes the problem of enimies scattering at the aplication of sv.. or av.. this is a terrible problem because most the time the spell dosent even come into contact with the mob.. they scatter before it can and you only end up with a buckshot effect on the mob.. Last time a checked trolls did not care about energy.. so why scatter and head straight for the caster?.. thats right because they know that we are working a build against them.. this needs to be fixed....

In the end these problems are what really annoy me.. i can still solo farm alota things.. but that is not the point.. the point is.. if they want to increase challenge do it by increasing the overall challenge of the game.. not by making annoying games of tag..




Now that all that is said.. i will be the first to say that all the fun is not gone from guild wars.. but it really does feel like alot has been ripped out..

and to all the folks that say its better this way... wait for about a month from now.. when you got all the missions done and you have beaten the game a few times... at that point your just coasting untill the next chapter... and you need somthing to do.. have fun grinding through the same old missions over and over again.. you wanted it this way.

hmm. ive noticed a bit of monster running, but nothing that bad. just need to watch the aggro circle some more....then again,i play a smite monk, so maybe im just missing it? hm. oh well. /agree with nerf, bring on some anti wammo stuff!!

@naruto: hmm. so your saying that if you were in a fight, and were almost dead, you wouldnt stop to heal even if you out numbered your enemy? i know i would, lol. 2nd, your arguing for the "farming" which seems to be the main reason for this nerf. 3rd. theres more to the game than just missions. theres getting masters on all missions, quests, which if you do them all probably triples the length of the game, pvp, and of course beating it with different chars. if you get "bored" after ALL that, then instead of killing the same monsters over and over in farming, why dont you...do something else NOT guild wars related? also, /notsigned with slowdown stacking, cause then earth/water eles could do 100% AoE slow and maintain it for a very long time. that would ruin all pvp.

People, there's a reason that it's called ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. There's bound to be an occasional odd behaviour going on with it. BUT it's nothing that a real person with actual intelligence (debateable) can't handle.

I am now almost at the Bone Palace and have only used henchies and heroes throughout the whole thing. It seriously isnt hard at all people.

wow if A-Net nerfing things is bad. Imagine what happened if they actually shut down the servers and start on another game or project?

Just another whack for this dead horse....

Those of you saying adapt and bring a slow down skill, well you are right and wrong. See we only have 8 skills. Now you have to bring a rez and some type of slowdown to EVERY battle, so you are down to 6 slots for actually doing something.

You could use the same argument about bringing hex/condition removers -- and you'd be right. BUT if you had to bring them for every single battle you were in, then suddenly you'd be down to 4 slots just to start to function.

This is the problem I'm having. It doesn't make you use your mind or strategy more -- it's less. Now you are required to bring another skill to every battle because every group of monsters will behave the same way and you have to slow them down. This means you bring even fewer useful skills to do damage and/or heal. Now there's even fewer decisions to make about what to bring and when to use them.

This doesn't make the game more challenging or force you to be more intelligent. It makes the game more annoying, more limiting, and have fewer choices and creativity in your builds.

In addition, take a look at a lot of the new skills. Many of them only reach their full potential if coupled with another skill. Many of them require enchantments, hexes, or conditions to be really effective -- or have a negative side effect that you have to negate with another skill. This means you probably have to burn 2 more slots to get one good effect.

If you can't see that this is dumbing down the game rather than making it more challenging then I'm sorry.

I can understand making monsters not want to stand in raining fire, but having them break off fighting just because some guy spun around with an axe one time is a bit much.

I guess for me if the AI actually resembled intelligence I wouldn't have such a problem with it, but this "improvement" seems to be aimed at curtailing certain practices rather than with simulating intelligence in the enemies.

Dude...there's 8 people in the party...I'm sure ONE of you can spare ONE slot for a snare.

Yes, so they can slow down 1 enemy reliably, or a few enemies for a short period of time. It's not like the monsters don't bring and use hex/condition removers so you have to probably have at least 4 people with slow down skills to keep them slowed down to a suitable level.

The point is it's not adding anything positive to the game -- it's making it more limited, tedious, less challenging, and allowing less creativity.

*sighs* All you need is to slow down whatever you're targeting. If the target runs. Snare it. You dont need to snare everything.

*sighs*

And then one of the enemies casts cure condition on your little snare and he's off to the races again while you wait for a recharge.

YOU ARE STILL MISSING THE WHOLE POINT.

It's not whether or not you can compensate for it. It's whether or not it does anything positive for the game. There's a million things they could do to make battles take longer, but that doesn't mean any of them would make the game more fun or challenging. They could give all the critters armor ratings so high that you only did damage with special attacks or spells and give them all health regen rates of +3 with infinite energy, but would that really make the game better? You could probably compensate for that too with massive spike damage, but it would have the effect of limiting how you could successfully play the game rather than allowing for creativity.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:

If the monsters don't want to fight then why would they attack us once inside the "aggro bubble"? If they do want to fight then why run the first (or second) time they take damage? I thought AI stood for Artificial Intelligence. Perhaps it's something else in this case.

Ok fine. You win. PVE is impossible! Strategies and skills dont work on them! I quit too!

Sorry, but now you're just being stubborn. Strategy works. I promise.

The only time I ever experience monsters running away is when I solo, and the only type of monsters I find that will instantly run are the monks, and the only time they run is when I get too close to them to use a "nearby" enemies skill.

When I'm in a party, especially in places like uw/fow, pve has become so dumbed down it's ridiculous. Every one keeps saying, "oh pve is much more difficult now! the AI is SOOO much SMARTER!!" but I just don't see it.

Please enlighten me, anyone, on exactly how the AI is oh-so-much-smarter and more intelligent and tougher, etc, etc, ad naseum ... when monsters focus all fire on the warrior (or whoever has the highest armor in the party), when monsters stand around packed on the warrior, joyfully suiciding on SS+reckless while meteor showers rain down on them, while casters and monks stand around surrounded by mesmers/ranger mobs unworried about the interrupts that never come. Monking has never been more boring in this game than after the update. Simply said, even in the toughest "elite" areas of GW, your party doesn't die. In fact, hardly anyone dies. It's as if the lost "book trick" from FOW has been brought out of the abyss and shoved willingly or unwillingly into the hands of every single warrior out there.

Throw healing seed or some bonds up on the warrior, and casters can just run loose, aggro everything and you know only the warrior will be attacked.

Please don't tell me that this is what anet intended as the "NEW AND IMPROVED" AI

because if it is.. that's just too sad


let's please have a moment of silence for kiting and smarter players in pve..

Who said strategy doesn't work? Are you not reading these? What they did LIMITS the strategy you can use.

It will go like this:

Someone calls a target:

Immediately snare/slow down EVERY single time. Same or different person adds a coverup condition or hex. Someone else has a backup snare in case that one is removed. That's not strategy. That's boring. And it just chewed up several skill slots just so you can actually have a fight.

Strategy is adjusting to DIFFERENT situations. This one will force the same beginning to almost every battle. That's tedious, not strategic.

All it does is eat up skill slots for the party without adding any level of intelligence or fun to the game. It's not like I'm saying I don't understand how to get around it or I can't deal with it. What I'm saying is it diminishes the fun without giving anything back in return.

So...you're saying that before this change, people werent using the same builds, same strategies? Where have you been?