New Enemy AI

Not only do the critters run when you look at them cross eyed the scarabs in the desert can use touch skills from up to 7 steps away. I haven't noticed any other touch type creatures doing this but it seems like if it is a touch skill they should have to actually touch you. None of my touch skills work unless I'm close to who/what I'm touching so how is it that the creatures touch skills have nearby instead of adjacent attack range? When my aggro bubble hits them I can see them at 7 to 8 steps away climbing up in mid air and biting me, before the “update” they would have to actually climb on you to do this now they can do it from anywhere.

I didn’t see any reason to change how aggro worked. It wasn’t like everyone had aggro down to a science, except for farmers and good players. It seemed like all the PUGs I played with until close to end game areas had no idea how aggro worked. Monks and nukers would tag along on the heels of the Warriors. Then when a fight broke out it was always pandemonium. Now no mater what it is like I’m playing with a know nothing PUG. I dislike the new AI but, I don’t see anything changing so I’ll have to learn to deal with it.

I do wish that monsters had to adhere to the same skill usage guide lines we all do. It is really annoying to have to deal with bugs that can cast touch skills like ranged ones.

Realistic? LOL surely you jest. When humans run, they run around the tanks and try to shake the aggro or use the tanks as blocks to give them a couple seconds relief -- they don't head for the hills.

Besides, forget realistic. We don't improve our skills in life by running around killing groups of "bad guys", so realistic has no place in this discussion whatsoever.

A big part of this game is killing groups of "bad guys" to advance to the next location or finish the quest you are on and therefore it's necessary. If that process becomes too tedious or just isn't fun for whatever reason then the whole PvE part of the game suffers.

The new AI isn't difficult to deal with at all. And you don't need snares.

Just forget about any tactics and attack the closest monster. If he runs then switch to the next closest one and attack. It's really that simple. So far I've been able to hero/hench just about everything including master's missions using this dumbed down technique to match the dumbed down AI.

Just make sure you take out mobs as you come to them so you don't get backdoored by 2 or 3 wandering mobs while in combat and you'll do fine. Olias does a decent job as a MM if you set him up right and you can have one healer monk and one prot monk. It's so much easier now than it was before that I rarely play for more than 2 hours at a time due to boredom.

I still fail to see what there is to "adapt" to. I guess it's kind of like adapting to 1st grade math after finishing calculus classes.

For those of you who enjoy the new AI, sorry if I offended you. For me it's a huge step backwards in the pursuit of simulated intelligence -- not that the previous version was extremely intelligent either, but this is worse and so much more exploitable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- too much consideration was given to limiting solo farming and running and not enough was given to the impact on the rest of the game IMHO.

I hope that the current AI is not where they want it to be. If it is then my favorite past time has taken a huge hit, and if it isn't then I really wish more time had been spent testing before it was released as an update.

Thats a problem, if you HAVE to have a certain skill, its changing the way the game is played for everyone. Before kiting, they had a use, you could use it for an escape if things went bad, so you could rez teamates, or to get out of a zone quickly if near the end and batlle isnt going well. Snares could be used to slow melee mobs, while a caster puts some form of degen on them. But now, we have to carry a snare of some kind, then thats a problem. The mobs dont always run, but earlier today, I was in Diessa, and had a Mind Spark literally run circles around me while I attacked another mob and Stephan chased him. Was pretty funny, actually.

You only get heros with Nightfall, as I understand, so what about those of us without them? Well, again, we'd have to change our build, making sure that we have a snare, and that the other 6 skills(if in party, bring rez sig) complement each other well. It limits choices somewhat, and thats not something I enjoy. Options are good.

I agree and I argued this point previously. Being able to compensate for a new behavior doesn't necessarily make it more difficult or more fun. BUT if you have to bring that compensation for every battle then it DOES limit your choices.

Personally (as stated above) I haven't found it necessary to bring any type of snare or equip them on my heroes, but I do have access to the heroes and you've stated that you don't.

I couldn't agree more that options are good. The fewer real options you have, the closer the game comes to cookie-cutter play.

Actually, I'm not agreeing with you, just trying to see it from your perspective. I don't believe it's an exploit if human and ai players can be killed by something such as snaring. I thought it was more clear in my previous post than that. I haven't heard of any "The snare farmer" builds yet, and probably will not. The topic of how the game can play itself has to more do with people customizing their heroes with better skills, thus having a better equipped ai to deal with situations when helping their human controller. Instead of having mhenlo or alesia spamming heal breeze with no condition or hex removal skills equipped. Or a MM hero instead of a blood henchmen who runs out to give stephan a BR.

Monsters try to kite, and we have the skills to stop kiters, even though you don't really need them. The reason I mentioned PvP was because if it's such an exploit to snare somebody and prevent from kiting, why do we have snares? Why do I have skills that cripple, slow, degen, knockdown, etc if nobody is kiting or running away from me? Kind of pointless really. Sure, PvP and PvE have nothing to do with eachother, but what I'm getting at is that it isn't an exploit. If it's incredibly so easy and boring right now, why are so many people complaining about chasing an ai opponent endlessly across the zone? Why, if it's that mind numbingly easy, are people so against using snares and some of the other counters to such a thing? Before they just stood there, but now they actually respond to damage and flee or try to kite you into another mob if you persist on chasing them. Where's the problem? Not being able to kill them because they're running? or something else?

Well what else can I tell you to do? Should I tell you to quit? You bought an MMO knowing that MMOs are always changing. If there's a change that you can't handle, you can either complain or just quit.

And I never tell people to quit unless it seems obvious that they'll never be happy with the game ever again because of a certain change. That's just how things are. So yes, I tell you to adapt to the new changes. If you'd rather me to tell you to quit or if you rather that I agree with you, that's not going to happen.

I have no problem with people complaining in a constructive way and because I disagree, I try to give some arguments in a constructive way. But if you, xXA1, can't handle me giving my opinion then don't visit the forums.

Show me how I was being arrogant or just stop hurling insults, mmmkay?

I pop into this thread every once in a while just to see how the argument is developing, and I've come to these conclusions:

1)At least half the population is experiencing abnormal behavior or exaggerating. I've not seen one instance of AI performing insane actions such as kiting 2 screens away. I've had AI that will run towards the nearest group after I decimated theirs(hoping I'll follow), but no bugs outside the normal ones caused by lag, etc.

2)As for being 'forced' to bring a snare, I've not had that problem. If casters run I just smash whatever stayed behind. I also like to use smite hex and scourge healing. Also look at it this way: if you do bring a snare, and ai tries to get away its not an exploit. If they change the ai so that it tries to heal when crippled, is using an interrupt an exploit?

3)I'll admit that I think something is wrong, one way or the other. Something has to be 'uber bugged' for this many complaints to be coming out. Complaints that I've not seen any personal evidence of(it didn't happen to me). I'm hoping all the fine-tuning gets finished so that we can see what the final product was supposed to be before everyone goes back to yelling.

4)I agree that this ai update made things easier, and I'd like to see the challenge upped again. This is from a limited perspective since I've spent time away from missions lately, but I try and keep informed.

The henchie controls are partially the reason for this, I believe, making it less difficult to hench areas. The other half is that when caster ai kite, they aren't contributing to the fight. Therefore fights finish faster. Now that Anet gave us hench controls and made things a tad easier, I'd like to see the ante upped a bit again. Just enough to keep things interesting.

Anyway, I'm glad this conversation is staying civil, and I hope the bugs get worked out soon.

But that's just my two cents

They are actually more likely to just stand there now, or run around without a purpose.

There's no point in chasing something across the screen unless it is the object of the mission you are on -- and then it will most likely come back to you if you stop chasing it anyway. Having said that, if people just wanted to run around and look at the scenery, then monsters wouldn't be necessary.

I think the main problem people have is that this is a fighting game by design, but now it seems the AI has changed things so that many of the monsters don't seem to really want to fight. It's kind of like being in a boxing match where all the other guy seems to want to do is avoid being hit and follow you around rather than actually engaging in the fight. After all, the whole purpose of being there is to fight. Why even bother getting into the ring if you have no intention of fighting?

As I've mentioned before elsewhere, if they don't want to fight then they shouldn't attack just because we get close to them, and if they do want to fight they shouldn't run away when they get a scratch. If you were in a PUG where the members acted that way you'd probably either complain or leave (I know I would).

But, once again, if you throw out any tactics (such as kill the healers first) and just blindly target the closest enemy to you, attack, then switch if he runs, you don't even need the snares. For me it's just sad that a supposed improvement in AI has resulted in less of a need or advantage to using tactics over just taking out the closest thing to you.

I totally agree with u. I think they put way too much of a focus on trying to nerf farming and running that they forgot what this game was all about. Instead of improving the gameplay and expanding the overall content, they decided to get tweak things that honestly dont make much of a difference in terms of fun nor content. Now we're left with a "broken" AI IMHO, and this was how it was intended to make our enjoyment of the game better? Thats like saying auto-theft is too much of a problem in a major metro area, so lets not let certain ppl have cars anymore, and those that have cars are not allowed to drive it around more than 10 miles a day. I mean come on, we have to tweak the gameplay so that everyone has to change as a result despite a problem that not a lot of ppl were complaining about. Thats just childish IMO, so someone is having more fun, lets make is so that either doesnt have anymore fun or so that everyone can have the equal level of fun that he's having. Right.....

oh come on the reason they did that with the monsters response was to try and get rid of the ebay money. Think about what happened with that update farming was ruined. I know I know u can still farm but it takes 10 times longer. Instead of ruining it for all players why didnt they just start selling gold in the online store. Before you all start raging its not much different from offering the skill unlock pack which is a way to cheat where others had to put in time and effort to unlock them the good old fashion way. By putting gold for sale in the online store and reverting to the old monster AI there would no longer be the ebay market (well as big of one) and people who enjoyed farming for greens golds or just plat could enjoy themselves again


Oh ya dont they test these updates before putting them into effect?? If not Anet should start and if they do time to start firing the retards

So you don't agree that mobs should run when in "real danger"? Or that kiting doesn't mean running in a straight line in the opposite direction of where you were hit? Or that using a single skill type (which isn't needed) practically destroys the AI cause it can't apapt? - I'm confused by what you wrote then, if you do not agree with that. And if you agree with that, then you agree with me.
Also, I was not refering to "farming", I was liking farming and the basis of simplistic cookie cutter builds to the current way of beating the AI.

You seriously need to go back and read what I've wrote.
There has yet to be a single mob kite. The mobs flee, as in run in the opposite direction of where they were hit. There is and has yet to be any problem of killing them. In fact, I listed previously many forms to exploit the broken AI. One such is simply hitting a monk from behind. It will flee into your backline and stand there, doing nothing.
Why are people against using snares? Cause it is pushing for cookie cutter builds. Not everyone logs into guildwiki too see what the current flavor of the month build is. Many like to play with all the skills they have and piddle with them.
Chasing a foe across the zone is fine, if you like to play tag. I prefer a fight, a battle, a struggle. Something that I'm unsure of the outcome during the skirmish. After an hour of playing tag, the game becomes a complete bore. That's why the complaints are about fleeing foes. If they really kited, that would be awesome, but they don't kite, they flee. - and I agree, a snare is not needed; but using one makes slaughter yet even easier (key word is "easier").
Where's the problem? You've stated the problem yourself several times. The AI is too easy. It doesn't act like it should, nor does it react at all (other than to flee). This makes the game unfun. Un-FUN. Therein lies the problem.

It's not that hard to grasp, the current AI is not fun. It's simply to dumb to create a challenge. We bought the game for fun, Anet has screwed up the AI to where it is now, and has made the game not fun. It is not fun because of all the reasons mentioned in this thread and the dozen others all over the net.
This is not a complaint against not being able to farm, it is not a complaint about being hard. It's a complaint about not being fun and too easy.

Lets stop assuming the complaints are about being too difficult or not being able to kill something in two seconds flat. It's the opposite of that. It's about being able to enjoy the game, have a "fight" that lasts a few minutes rather than a "tag" match, in which you know you will win cause the AI has yet to hit you... it's too busy running around in circles (after your monks) or fleeing to the edge of the map.

There is no "awe" factor in GW now, all mobs act the same and even the toughest mobs flee in terror at their name being called as the target. If I see a cool tough looking foe standing 50 feet into the air, I should be saying "That looks like bad news"; instead I am saying "No worries, it will flee once we hit it hard enough and then we will reverse kite it*".

*Reverse kitting for those who do not know, is where you send something away screaming in terror and you whack it from behind as it runs. This technique started in the first EQ by necromancers and rangers who would "scare" the target then chase it across the zone, killing it. It's a free and cheap kill. It's also simply one of the most dull practices around and quickly becomes a bore. - google reverse kiting and see for yourself... this is what we have in GW now.. in every single fight.

So there we have it then, thanks for clarifying. Although, I'm still having fun in this game, so I think I'll go back to playing it. Buggy ai or not, I still don't find myself chasing enemies around to kill them. If they run, I let them, and kill off one of the other monsters, then save the runner for last usually. Turns out he won't run if his monster buddies are dead (usually in my experience anyway).

Yeah I've been trying this actually, it works I'll admit.
Funny tho when you think you have an enemy blocked and they squeeze out through the most tiniest of gaps ...
alas.
Still fairly effective.
I bring sprint too, but it messes up my current build so killing isn't effective because I'm one effective skill short simply because of a running skill, but it helps too.
Still tho, and I know a lot of people here don't mind the new AI or haven't experienced the kiting problem, but, I've seen way more kiting from enemies than actual fighting, and I dunno if that's just luck or what but meh.

There's that genuine faux simulated artificial intelligence in action for ya!

I haven't had much issue with AI kiting all over the map lately. Maybe i just kill them to fast after i snare them <shrugg>...

The scarabs have ALWAYS been that way. 2 things are at play with that. One is the updated location isn't always accurate and they will sometimes warp right next to you. Second they come out of the ground as you run by, as they do they are casting, so even if you're 20 yards away once the cast is started, it will go through. This works exactly the same way for touch rangers and monk touch skillls. I can't tell you how many times i cast a touch skill as someone runs by only to complete it after they have long past me.

I did notice that a lot of the monsters run away now, and it is pretty stupid with the way their AI is scripted. Monks especially...they run away when I get within a few steps of them, I don't even have to hit them. The first few times I played with the new AI I kept chasing the monks, thinking they would eventually stop and heal their team for a second or two before they resume running away, but they didn't. Occasionally if the monks had their health lowered by AoE or degen before they started running, they would stop and cast one heal on themselves, and then run away some more.

I quickly got tired of chasing monks, so my new strategy became:
1) Shoot warrior monster of a group with my longbow and run about an aggro bubble away
2) Turn around and press W in direction of approaching monsters
3) See which monsters run away just from facing them
4) Ignore monsters that run just from being looked at
4) Attack monsters that are still approaching and watch them die
5) Attack monsters that initially ran away, since they do not run now
6) All monsters are dead, press the Easy Button at my desk. Easy Button says "That was easy!". Yes, Easy Button, it was.

I actually used to die sometimes while fighting monsters, now I have found it is hard to die if I follow those steps. While I initially enjoyed the feeling of being unstoppable when fighting such retarded monsters for a few days, it's pretty boring now. A lot of skills are pointless to bring since I don't really need anything that isn't a damage or healing skill.

Just my input on the new AI.

May be you should think of starting crippling ranger (PvP build) or shock/gale war or water ele here, to chase and nuke them

Guild Wars Nightfall : US$49.99
New "improved" AI in all chapters : Free
Watching a desert griffon flee Alesia's terrible wrath : Priceless

I've had moments were I got my kill and failed to select a new target, and watched as the mob and my henchies/heroes payed musical chairs around me.

Often, with or without me in it, the game looks like a slapstick comedy.

I've got A chasing 1 who is chasing B who is chasing 2 who is chasing C who is chasing 3 who is chasing A...


And in response to the reply to me when I pointed out how unreal this all is, from the point of view of myself being a veteran -
- It is not that I want an ultra real -game-. I want a plausible one -WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF- fantasy, where logical real tactics, given the skills and spells of GW, work when I use them, or when they are used against me.

Mostly, when they are used against me.

Those mobs should hold together, and should rain down heck on me and get me to scatter...

Maybe low level mobs should act like Larry, Curly and Moe, but when I get to a level 24 mob... I want to be facing Caesar or Khan or at least something other than a headless chicken...

The most basic tactic, that works under any form of combat, no matter what the technology and no matter what the spells or skills, is to maintain discipline and not route. At least, give me that. Everything else maybe is fair game - but at least let them maintain discipline and not route until they are losing and even then only if they are low enough level to logically lack morale.

The moment they lose discipline, the moment they route, that is the moment I am guaranteed victory. It might take time, but it is assured.

When that route is their very first choice of action on being targeted, then victory is too easy for me.

I find it truly funny how people are complaining, and bringing the worst counter points to this entire argument, I only had to read probably the first 10 posts to get a sense of what is actually being debated.

First the AI is ~too good~ In a more or less consensus I completely agree. It seems more and more that a crip shot ranger has a home in every kind of environment, yet barrage will more or less never be used again. People came up with the counter points of "snaring" to a degree. Yes it is possible to do so, but then take into consideration you need a signet of capture, rebirth.. etc etc. Your skill bar will be SET FOR YOU. You will ALWAYS need specific skills just to ATTEMPT to kill something. You will have so many points into such a specific attribute your damage may be decreased. These PvE NPC's are defending their territory in a sense, not pretending to be crash test dummies.

The AI is ~great~ You must have really been poor the entire time you have played GW and never had a 55 monk. Which I think is the border for this argument. You either don't care, or hate it to bits. 55 farming in a sense did make the game unfair that a monk the most divine of all classes could make more money then the natural hunter, a ranger. Flavour wise, yes completely unfair. That alone should settle the score here. Although, how fair is it that a skill like cyclone axe, cant even be used against troll farming? Triple Chop? Gladiators Defence? The most used skills for warrior farming are completely nerfed as a result of this. How can anyone farm anything? Whether this point is valid or not, you can't farm; GG.

The AI ~sucks~ dude... super mario 64... the koopa just apparently wants a shoe up his rear end.

Ok AI has changed and in my view there are lots of bugs with it now.

But even lets say they they coded it the way it was intended which is along the lines of - Enemies now kite when low on health.

Is that fundamentally an improvement?

How does this make the game better and more of a challenge - didn't the previous AI just go all for attacking - that's kind of like a spike build for me.
I mean a group of 9 monsters going all out attacking simulataneously is more challenging that 5 monsters going for me and 4 more kiting while they regain health.

Now all you need to do is soften up a few targets so that they believe they're hurt before really engaging them (e.g. a barrage or ele skill) then when you engage - instead of all the monsters going all out for your blood you now have quite a few less.... doesn't that make it easier but longer?

A real improvement there...
Haven't I heard that previous kinda difficult missions (e.g. THK) are now a "piece of cake" easy with henchies?

Is the AI done - in which case it's still bugged in my view with hero's/henchies/monster all having wrong reactions.

If the AI is fixed to match what was originally intended - will the game be so easy because effectively spike damage of groups is dramatically reduced?

Will more enemies be introduced to combat this?
Maybe they removed the agro range cut off because of this and that's why they chase you all over the map presently.

I swear I must be playing a different version of nightfall than all of you

Snares are a waste of space, I never use them. Hell, Devona's got "charge", what need has she for snares, she could probably outrun them if they so decided to flee.

I think part of the reason henching it is much easier these days is partly their improved "I'm not an invincible idiot tanker" mentality. The other part is that they now sport an elite which they actually use quite a bit.

The enemy AI has become a bit tougher, you can see this in how much better some groups w/ monks can hold up if a group doesn't focus fire on targets.

I've been in pugs where the human players are like waves breaking against a cement wall, all attacking different targets until I finally either run out of energy due to the idiot that ran deep and aggro'd everything in an attempt to take out the backline monk.. or we get flanked and taken out from the back.

But run w/ heroes and elite henchies, they swarm the called target like flies to a piece dog crap

kiting...? there's no where to go lol

[Long winded post follows]
I think part of the AI change is intentional; However, some of it clearly can't be. Having a swarm of 8 or so Mountain Trolls running around aimlessly after a guildie used Cyclone Axe on them was amusing at first, till we realized they wern't -stopping-. They kept running around in random directions, even when at near full health and noone attacking them. They didn't even go very far, and only a couple would stop to attack, untill one of us tried to attack it, then the freaking out started again. Now, this was only once, so probably was fixed allready.

That will likely be tweaked so they're more calm.

Now, I have noticed casters running when they get focused on early in an engagement, that's fine, they're casters. I havn't seen them running all across the map to get away, though.

The main issue I have with the AI is with casters and them getting locked into a clearly buggy chase routine.

Example: I'm running from Drok's to Rankor. I speed past Trolls, they disengage when I get past them, I speed past Avicara warriors and rangers and monks, they all give up when I get a half aggro-circle away. The mesmers and necros, however...those will chase me every time, forever and ever. Anti-runner code? Ok, that's acceptable. Running was easy before anyway. Not sure why only casters chase you though. If the whole group chased you as a team, that would make sense, as much as it would make some people upset.

Now for what I think is broken about that: If you stop, they will cast a spell or two most of the time, then sit there. Not trying to kill you. Just waiting for you to run again. This doesn't happen every time, but it does seem like they don't try very hard to kill you.

Better example: Stone Summit necros on the way from Yak's to Beacon's. Every time I run, one will -always- decide to chase me for a very long time. I stop, he runs up, uses Vile Touch, then runs away a short distance and...waits. I go closer to him, he Vile Touches, and pulls back a little. I run again, and he chases till I get closer to him. Hilarious, but obviously not what Anet wants, considering that a single one of those isn't a threat to anyone, not with it not using more than one attack at a time.

My point, is that I doubt this is the "final" version of the AI. Will it go back to how it was? Probably not. Is that a bad thing that the AI isn't as simple to kill (no more "tank go first, we kill monk, lawl easy")? Probably not. Is it annoying as hell -sometimes- as it is right now? Hell yes. Will they fix what's wrong with it? Most likely. Bring a snare? No need really, as has been pointed out by previous posters.

Read Gaile's post. That running around aimlessly -WAS- intentional. Even for those high level critters you mention, and even until they run themselves dead.

What we are seeing in the game, like it or hate it, and I hate it, is EXACTLY what they wanted.

I'm gonna quote the single best post I've seen on this subject. It was up on mmorpg.com

I'd also like to point out that if you defeat a single melee chracter in the mob, the running A.I. gets turned off. There is no reason to take any ranged speed reduction skills, just good damage skills.

Allright, the "Oh no, panic!" routine is inentional. Ok. Annoying, but funny sometimes. I can see why they'd do it, considering melee mobs are the most-farmed type of mob, they'd want to make it less efficient. (Note that they didn't kill farming, the bots are still at it, go to Elona Reach, international districts and look if anyone thinks farming is dead.)

How about the "caster chasing forever but not trying very hard to kill" bit? (From the example I gave, especially the Stone Summit necro in the N. Shiverpeaks.) I'm hoping that's not intentional, because I can't see a point to it other than to provide amusement. A single Howler isn't a threat to anyone, not when all it does is Vile Touch once, back off and follow till you move closer, and repeat.

I guess that dwarf likes to touch me, but he's a bit shy?

-Shrug-

VGJustice: That post you quote was written by someone who is clearly ignorant of the situation.

A pack of level 20 Kournan warriors are not mugging victims... Now if a level 20 player character takes on a level 1 villager outside Kamadan, sure - the villager -SHOULD RUN-.

But turn around and take on Corsairs, Skree, Kournan soldiers, and so on - when they flee before they are losing, it is just absurd. And even they were losing, they should retreat, not flee. The difference is striking when you see it. In a retreat you pull back in an organized fashion designed to maximize survival of the unit and not of individuals. You would do this at the squad level by retreating in steps with some of your unit acting to allow others to get to the next staging ground where they can prepare to let the first batch through and so on.

Or, at the least, you pull back in a way that works to minimize your losses.

You don't run in circles, you don't scatter, you don't lead the enemy right back into your own lines in the randomness of your scatter flight. You don't turn your back on them and keep it turned...


This has nothing to do with farming. I'm very strongly anti-farming.

I want a tough AI, one that makes farming harder. This AI is easy to kill. I can play the game on cruise control. I'm 35, I grew up before the age of video games - I'm not the best player of them. Younger people usually toss me around like a cat with a rubber mouse - me being the mouse - and most games I buy do so as well.

But this game is easy for a person like me. Sure, I don't want a game were I get smacked down and can never get up, but give me a challenge...

This new AI is pro-farming for those of us who have figured out how easy it is to overcome. Before I used to wonder how anybody could farm this game, because a player like me had to be on the edge of my seat at all times. Now I just flag my heroes and henchies to a spot and stay where I am collecting XP at zero risk, then hit ';' and 'space' repeatedly to collect the treasure, and then flag my heroes and henchies to the next dropzone.

No, actually, I'd say he's got a pretty good grasp on the situation.

You seriously think soldiers should flee at the first sign of danger?

That, if true, would put you into a fairly brainless category as well...

I agree with arcady on the most part, as I believe I've posted before. But you're forgetting one thing dude. This isn't just soldier on soldier. This is soldier fighting the player. The player being the guy that took on the lich, undead hordes, possibly killed glint, as well as the 'unseen gods'. And that's just prophecies.

so it would be more akin to getting mugged by jason x or freddy kreuger in a dark alley. We are Legendary, Epic people. To meet us on the battlefield would be like going up against hannibal, Julius Caesar, and Sun Tzu rolled into one; people that even the most battle hardened soldiers of the day gave second thought before fighting.

So what your saying is, if im a lvl 20 monk (used that for dramatic purposes) and i go and wand a group of lvl 28 margonites with a good set of melee, mesmers, healers, necros, and eles, that they should run away in sheer horror because i might be packing a skill called spellbreaker? lol. Thats quite a powerful skill when they can spike you for more 300 dmg in a single second just from melee, and when it wears off, of which u wont survive anyways, they can spike u again with casters. If thats how we compare and constrast farming to AI improvement, then i gotta say, that sure is a creative way to approach a problem and argue that money is the root of this endeavor.

The new anti-Ai people is confusing me.
There seems to be constant contradiction. It is easy, no its not. They kite, they dont kite enough. They ganks softies. They dont gank softies enough.

It seems the argument is confused beause their actual argument is just to 'revert' the AI back to what they are familiar with.

I found enemy monks kite better than most human NPCs. Hell at least they kite. Human monks just stand there and put on prot spirit and healing breeze.

They can make the AI as good as human - hell they can teach them to mix spike. But I doubt that is what people really want. They just want the 'good old days'. Where they can predict every move and just whack em to death. God forbid people have to kite, snare, and use other skills besides tanking, nuking and breezing.


And finally. It is amazing the nit picking of the AI. Where was this months ago? People complained about the AI before but not for the same reason. Or at least not with the same zeal. Most energy was spent on 'OMFG I cant farm with new AI - gg ANet'. I barely saw any thread about the unusual behavior - which was there.

You guys are being disengenous.

Well said, crimsonfilms.

This game is about player skill. Always has been, and likely will be more so in the future. If you don't like hard games, then this isn't really the game for you. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some Gradius to go beat again.

Yeah, I don't know what the anti-A.I. complaints are anymore since they seem to contradict themselves.

First it was too hard and frustrating, now it's too easy and frustrating. The only thing that's for sure it that it's frustrating to them.

Actually it can be "frustratingly easy".

I don't see that many threads saying that NF is way too hard but I see lots of posts about the frustration that AI enemies/henchies/heroes are screwed up right now - which doesn't make the game harder or more difficult - just longer and more boring.

As in my previous post, AI for prophecies and factions had a stronger spike aspect and everything kept coming for you - now you can approach a group and reduce their overall damage output by forcing them to think they're in danger...

I'm in a mob of monsters - previously they would swarm me at once and I'd have to fight for my life, now I damage a few with a cyclone axe - they go off and have a good cry leaving a much smaller group for me to kill, et viola I've reduced the entire spike damage of the mob with the new AI, simply by forcing the damage to be spread out over a longer time - easy but boring....

All this coupled with the ability to make uber-heroes (treble instant interrupt) really puts mobs at a disadvantage further increasing the use of the "that was easy!" button.

Also it can be "frustratingly hard" if your henchies and heroes don't act as you expect which is again related to the AI changes/problems.

frustratingly easy - monster AI is flawed and you should be dying more
frustratingly hard - hench/heroes AI is flawed and you keep dying when you shouldn't

See it's not that people are at opposite ends of the spectrum here - the common link is AI updates.

many ppl with many opinions what can i say? some think its too difficult, some think its too easy, some find it strange, some find it annoying, but i think the general consensus is that its fustrating. I dont know if anyone really contradicted themselves though i have read a few weird posts here and there, i just have a casual attitude to it. I find it fustrating at times as do most ppl, then again hilarious on another. Sometimes i like playing tag, or catch me if u can. Other times i like snaring and dazing casters and watching them panic.

But honestly, relating this fustration to the fustration that someone cant farm anymore? i can see where ur coming from, but alot of the posts were disgruntled people who just want to finish a quest, cap a skill, or finish a mission. Yea AI is fustrating, does is encourage more ppl to play? some ppl like to be fustrated i guess, so yea, u see posts of ppl enjoying it. While some find it absolutely annoying? can u blame em for having there own opinion on the issue? I think everyone has a somewhat valid point regardless of whether or not the "cool" players agree. then again, i can see the flames that will result from this overly coined term that i used jokingly.

First, I'm not going to whine about the AI..although it is comical how it will follow you through an entire zone while sprinting and charging--only to run for its life when threatened at all.

I made this quick video to show how some gnashers followed me half way across taska's then they fled when i attacked with a sword with 0 swordmanship...then they began following me again...repeat...absolutely hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyDXA3aLyhs

LMAO. Those dwarves must've had a hard-on for you. And its even funnier that they seem to have rocket shoes and hawk eyes for aggro-ing even when you ran that far away.

That's what also amazes me..while having such a large speed boost they still can keep up even though they cast no running spells of their own.