A short, grumpy psuedo-rant, if you please.
I've "finished" Nightfall with my main character. More characters to run through and plenty to explore mean I have lots of ways to enjoy Elona for months to come...
...yet one thing is leaving a sour taste in my mouth: The favor and town control systems.
Yes, I *know* we've had dozens of threads about this topic, all of which have overwhelmingly been in "favor" of getting rid of favor and opening access to end-game areas. I won't reiterate all the reasons the favor system is bad, because it's been beaten to death repeatedly.
Nor is favor the only problem; witness the silence in Urgoz's Waren and The Deep. In Cavalon, you can often find dozens of people begging for ferries, and not finding them. If you don;t "ping" a skill bar that the alliances approve of, you can't get in to the "elite" missions.
I *paid* for Urgoz's Warren. I *paid* for UW and FoW. I *paid* for The Deep. And I paid for certain things in Elona that may be beyond my reach.
I *bought* the entire game, and should not be locked out of certain areas merely because I can not afford to be awake in the wee hours of the morning to access them.
So what is ANet going to do, if anything, about these problems? It's not as if the playing community hasn't offered multiple workable suggestions. So will ANet do anything or not?
Locked out of end game content, again. Will ANet ever respond?
ChaoticCoyote
The Pointless
You didn't pay for those areas, you payed for certain rights that ANet granted you.
Theus
Wait..theres endgame content to Nightfall?
Amity and Truth
They promised it would be. And it's in the manual but so far no one has found it. I made a thread somewhere around here to try to get an answer on if it is even included yet.
ChaoticCoyote
My theory was that the Elite area would be accessible through certain new statues... but haven't been on when America has favor yet.
Beyond that, the "old" Elite areas are becoming much more difficult to access.
Beyond that, the "old" Elite areas are becoming much more difficult to access.
Mr_T_bot
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Originally Posted by The Pointless
You didn't pay for those areas, you payed for certain rights that ANet granted you.
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IIIPowerIII
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
We paid for access to all content within a chapter, including those areas.
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You dont have Favor, make a group and go get them.
You want to go in Urgoz, then go earn Faction and control a town...
What I hate these days, People doesnt stop to complain, They want everything for free, and now want unlimited access to elite mission anytime?
Now we will see soon, people asking to get some perfect req8 crystalinne sword because they paid for the game...
Bankai
That argument is bullcrap.
If you have bought a game, I immediately want to be lvl 20 with all skills unlocked, all green items in the game, and fow armor. I mean, I paid for it.
If you have bought a game, I immediately want to be lvl 20 with all skills unlocked, all green items in the game, and fow armor. I mean, I paid for it.
Zinger314
It's too late.
Alex Weeks promised that ArenaNet was planning alternate access to Elite Missions.
However, that was in mid-July.
Obviously, ArenaNet forgot about it.
ArenaNet considers the "Elite Mission open to all" weekend in August to be the same thing, I guess.
Alex Weeks promised that ArenaNet was planning alternate access to Elite Missions.
However, that was in mid-July.
Obviously, ArenaNet forgot about it.
ArenaNet considers the "Elite Mission open to all" weekend in August to be the same thing, I guess.
The Pointless
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
We paid for access to all content within a chapter, including those areas.
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AceeBlueEagle
After having been to the Deep and Warren on several occasions, I can only ask why anyone would want to go there... 
brokenmonkey
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Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII
You want to access to Elite Area? Work for it...
You dont have Favor, make a group and go get them. You want to go in Urgoz, then go earn Faction and control a town... What I hate these days, People doesnt stop to complain, They want everything for free, and now want unlimited access to elite mission anytime? Now we will see soon, people asking to get some perfect req8 crystalinne sword because they paid for the game... |
/signed =)
Xioden
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Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII
You want to access to Elite Area? Work for it...
You dont have Favor, make a group and go get them. You want to go in Urgoz, then go earn Faction and control a town... What I hate these days, People doesnt stop to complain, They want everything for free, and now want unlimited access to elite mission anytime? Now we will see soon, people asking to get some perfect req8 crystalinne sword because they paid for the game... |
IIIPowerIII
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Originally Posted by Xioden
Yea, Because getting that 20mil+ Faction initially and 2 mil+ a day is something everyone and their brother can do. /signed /sacrasm
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What now? you dont wanna pay? You want also free ferry?
Malice Black
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Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII
You want to access to Elite Area? Work for it...
You dont have Favor, make a group and go get them. You want to go in Urgoz, then go earn Faction and control a town... What I hate these days, People doesnt stop to complain, They want everything for free, and now want unlimited access to elite mission anytime? Now we will see soon, people asking to get some perfect req8 crystalinne sword because they paid for the game... |
Once upon a time many many many moons ago people were elated that they had favor and could enter for a bit of guild farming...what the f*ck happened to those days? now all we get is people whining because they can't duo farm when they want...
Yes..favor system sucks
No...it won't be improved
Yes getting to elite missions is tough...should it be made easy? no, play for the right to enter.
Bale_Shadowscar
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Originally Posted by Bankai
That argument is bullcrap.
If you have bought a game, I immediately want to be lvl 20 with all skills unlocked, all green items in the game, and fow armor. I mean, I paid for it. |
Like saying, as Bankai rightfully said, "I want FoW armor because I paid for the game so rightfully I should have everything in it" is total rubbish.
Tainek
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Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
We paid for access to all content within a chapter, including those areas.
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And you have access, under certain conditions, exactly like you have access, to say, lions arch, so should i complain because my level 1 cant get to lions arch as soon as he starts in ascalon?
you have access , you just cant be assed to go earn it
Kern Wolf
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
They promised it would be. And it's in the manual but so far no one has found it. I made a thread somewhere around here to try to get an answer on if it is even included yet.
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aron searle
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Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII
You want to access to Elite Area? Work for it...
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| You dont have Favor, make a group and go get them. |
Besides if i did decide to go "earn" favor, by the time i did (if i did) i would have run out of time.
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| You want to go in Urgoz, then go earn Faction and control a town... |
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| What I hate these days, People doesnt stop to complain, They want everything for free, and now want unlimited access to elite mission anytime? |
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Now we will see soon, people asking to get some perfect req8 crystalinne sword because they paid for the game...
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| Like saying, as Bankai rightfully said, "I want FoW armor because I paid for the game so rightfully I should have everything in it" is total rubbish. |
I suppose your right and that people dont need access to the end game areas unless theve "worked" for it (yea cause thats why i buy games, to work
), or if they get bored they could just play something else instead, oh well.
dreamhunk
I would rather have anet take their time and finsh the end content
Gli
Oh, this argument again. 
It's impossible to earn access to the Factions elite missions by just playing the game. You need to socialize to get there. That's crap. Period. It's a goddamn game not an internet dating service.
I'd sooner eat glass than leave my 6 people guild of real life friends and join a faceless mass of internet pod people, i.e. a faction farming alliance.
It's impossible to earn access to the Factions elite missions by just playing the game. You need to socialize to get there. That's crap. Period. It's a goddamn game not an internet dating service.
I'd sooner eat glass than leave my 6 people guild of real life friends and join a faceless mass of internet pod people, i.e. a faction farming alliance.
Nikki Moonlight
Aron searle=correct in every way possible
Artisan
You absolutely did not pay for all the areas in the game. You paid for the game as it was designed by the people who created it. You paying 50 bucks or whatever for the game doesn't mean that you obtain the right to order the people who designed the game to make a major design change.
VGJustice
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Originally Posted by Gli
Oh, this argument again.
It's impossible to earn access to the Factions elite missions by just playing the game. You need to socialize to get there. That's crap. Period. It's a goddamn game not an internet dating service. I'd sooner eat glass than leave my 6 people guild of real life friends and join a faceless mass of internet pod people, i.e. a faction farming alliance. |
Competition between the guilds of the aliance had everyone at everyone's throat ("So and So guild is holding us all back") and it was rarely enjoyable to talk to any of them. Then, the learder of the Aliance disbanded the whole thing without warning and the guild I was in decided to go straight PvP with threats to kick anyone that wanted to PvE. I left before they had a chance to kick me.
This happened in one week.
No, while I do NOT condone the utter crap that is Aliance Control, I see little wrong with the Favor system. If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA. That also defeats a pretty major part of the game, the global competition aspect. Don't like HA? Well, no problem, but if you're not willing to play that part then you don't really have any complaining room when parts of the game become inaccessable. Rewards come from work, and if you're not willing to work for those rewards then why do you feel entitled to them?
The Prince
if anet is so concerned about making this game egalitarian by nerfing farming and updating the game to make it more equal, then why have certain areas only accessible by a relatively group of people, or a guild that concerns itself with faction farming lutgardis, while everyone else has to PAY ingame money for the priviledge of playing through a mission that should be open to everyone at all times. If Anet wants to reward the faction farmers, give them an area yes, but dont cut off access to the elite missions to those who want to be able to play the game without either joining a faction farming guild or having to pay for a ferry when there is no guarantee there will even be people there to form a group with
Part of the flaw in that argument is that there are people who are willing to go to HA, however its pretty near impossible to get a group unless you've been in HA for a long time and can flash your rank emote, or are in a PvP guild. Not to mention that to go earn favor to access an area like UW that you want to go into will take hours, and then add to that the hours spend in UW...unless someone has a whoooole lot of free time, asking someone to go earn favor for themselves to go access the endgame areas is a bit excessive.
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
No, while I do NOT condone the utter crap that is Aliance Control, I see little wrong with the Favor system. If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA. That also defeats a pretty major part of the game, the global competition aspect. Don't like HA? Well, no problem, but if you're not willing to play that part then you don't really have any complaining room when parts of the game become inaccessable. Rewards come from work, and if you're not willing to work for those rewards then why do you feel entitled to them?
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Str0b0
What tickles me about these types of people is that 90% of the time if you put them in the Elite mission they would immediately become a liability to any group they are in because they simply aren't good enough to be in an elite area. Of course that doesn't stop them from wanting to be in the Elite areas though. I remember that during the elite mission weekend, The Deep was flooded with newbs and most of them had no idea what the mission entailed. They couldn't communicate, they couldn't work as a team and most players just got fed up with them and the entire Elite weekend. There were so many Leroy's down there it was ridiculous, and a lot of whiners complaining that they couldn't get into groups because they lacked the proper build. Those elite areas are difficult to do and require a well planned out team with certain builds that have well defined jobs to do. There isn't a lot of room for experimentation. I've seen even proper groups fail The Deep and the Warren through no fault of their own, they just got beat by the mission. So what makes every Tom Dick and Harry think that they can compete in these high end areas?
garethporlest18
While I do not mind about favor or the boring Elite missions, the current one, entailing no info at all is quite annoying. Favor is pretty easy, we may get it in the afternoon but it's usually after 8 pm CST we get it. With NF out it's been a little bit later, just have to have patience.
Also Strobo, equality that's what. Everyone does deserve a chance. You can't get better at anything unless you learn by trying it out. I was a noob at the Deep when I went in too, but my group got all the way to the end even with our noobness. I agree that some people need to learn how to follow directions and co-operate, those who had no idea what the mission entailed and did follow and communicate nothing was wrong with them.
The elite missions aren't for the elite, they can be for any player.
Also Strobo, equality that's what. Everyone does deserve a chance. You can't get better at anything unless you learn by trying it out. I was a noob at the Deep when I went in too, but my group got all the way to the end even with our noobness. I agree that some people need to learn how to follow directions and co-operate, those who had no idea what the mission entailed and did follow and communicate nothing was wrong with them.
The elite missions aren't for the elite, they can be for any player.
The Prince
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
What tickles me about these types of people is that 90% of the time if you put them in the Elite mission they would immediately become a liability to any group they are in because they simply aren't good enough to be in an elite area. Of course that doesn't stop them from wanting to be in the Elite areas though. I remember that during the elite mission weekend, The Deep was flooded with newbs and most of them had no idea what the mission entailed. They couldn't communicate, they couldn't work as a team and most players just got fed up with them and the entire Elite weekend. There were so many Leroy's down there it was ridiculous, and a lot of whiners complaining that they couldn't get into groups because they lacked the proper build. Those elite areas are difficult to do and require a well planned out team with certain builds that have well defined jobs to do. There isn't a lot of room for experimentation. I've seen even proper groups fail The Deep and the Warren through no fault of their own, they just got beat by the mission. So what makes every Tom Dick and Harry think that they can compete in these high end areas?
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Str0b0
And what about equality where those of us who do understand those principles are concerned? Don't we have a right to functional groups and well seasoned players? See it's ideas like that that make me play with henchmen instead of people. Equality is all fine and good but too much equality leads to apologetics which is the death of cooperative play. " Oh leave him alone he doesn't know any better." Well let him get chewed out once or twice and I bet he never does it again. Elite missions are rewards for those who have excelled at the game, not a right for everyone regardless of how much you paid. That's why they are ELITE missions and not just missions. This is a competitive game at heart, even in PvE, and the Elite content focuses on that aspect. You must compete, through achievement in alliance battles, skill in build creation, or skill in play in order to access this special content. I'm sorry that's just the way it is and I don't think it should be changed. It would be unfair for those of us who do play well and who have earned the right to be in those areas if you were to just allow anyone, regardless of merit or skill to just hop on in whenever they pleased. The Elite weekend gave people a taste, I think to try to inspire them to compete for the right to go there, but apparently all it did was make people think they were entitled to all content regardless of their abyssmal play skills.
Maxiemonster
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Originally Posted by Bankai
That argument is bullcrap.
If you have bought a game, I immediately want to be lvl 20 with all skills unlocked, all green items in the game, and fow armor. I mean, I paid for it. |
Swinging Fists
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
If the Favor system were disbanded then there wouldn't be any reason to play HA.
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Malice Black
It's laughable how people are willing to grind for hours just to have "control"..elite missions won't change..yet, I expect in the future that another gateway will be provided..Anet loves keeping the whiners happy..
Str0b0
My Elite mission experience came directly from Alliance battles. I am not a member of an alliance with control but I know people, people that I impressed with my ability to work with a team and knowledge of skills and builds, from alliance battles that give me access to the Elite content. I earned my passage to the Deep and to the Warren. I don't think it's asking too much for other people to do the same. Like Bane said though the whiners usually win out in the end.
Gli
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
Elite missions are rewards for those who have excelled at the game, not a right for everyone regardless of how much you paid.
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
That's why they are ELITE missions and not just missions. This is a competitive game at heart, even in PvE, and the Elite content focuses on that aspect. You must compete, through achievement in alliance battles, skill in build creation, or skill in play in order to access this special content.
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
I'm sorry that's just the way it is and I don't think it should be changed. It would be unfair for those of us who do play well and who have earned the right to be in those areas if you were to just allow anyone, regardless of merit or skill to just hop on in whenever they pleased.
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ChaoticCoyote
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Originally Posted by Gli
No one is asking for unlimited and unrestricted access, but for an access criterium people can meet on individual merit instead of becoming part of a faceless alliance herd. I'm not a sheep! Baah! Baah!
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It makes no sense that PvE access to UW and FoW be controlled by PvP players who don't care about favor!
I've played a hell of a lot of Urgoz's and The Deep and UW and FoW; I've got the items and screen shots to prove my success there. But these days, I can't get into FoW or UW at all during rational hours in America, and access to the Deep and Urgoz's is controlled by selfish guilds.
It is not irrational or whining to point out that the game design isn't working or rational.
Xioden
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Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII
Just get a damn Ferry then! Ppl are offering that Service in Service thread..
What now? you dont wanna pay? You want also free ferry? |
Eviance
Str0b0 everyone starts at the bottom sometime or another, but a good group with 1-2newbs does not mean that the whole thing is dewmed because obviously if the rest are that good then it shouldn't be an issue. And if at least one of those newbs can be taught then he is a better player and can thusly find a group.
All the favor system at this point shows is that Europe enjoys pvp more than pve and that Americans enjoy pve about as much as they do pvp. While I can agree that the favor system has some flaws it is not as simple as saying - Go get us favor! However I do not know of any way to effectively and fairly change it.
As for the Deep and Urgoz the reason that people are complaining so much is because not only can they not locate/play the Elonian Elite missions - but because of NF's release they cannot find anyone in these Faction elite towns to ferry them... I think in the end all of this will sort itself out and that people will find something else to complain about. However atm there is no reason to start a flame war based on the pure frustration of the masses.
Right now most people want to know the following: Are there Elite missions in Elona? If there are, how do we access it/them?
I think from there people can/will figure the rest out for themselves even if it means switching over to Euro ~_^
All the favor system at this point shows is that Europe enjoys pvp more than pve and that Americans enjoy pve about as much as they do pvp. While I can agree that the favor system has some flaws it is not as simple as saying - Go get us favor! However I do not know of any way to effectively and fairly change it.
As for the Deep and Urgoz the reason that people are complaining so much is because not only can they not locate/play the Elonian Elite missions - but because of NF's release they cannot find anyone in these Faction elite towns to ferry them... I think in the end all of this will sort itself out and that people will find something else to complain about. However atm there is no reason to start a flame war based on the pure frustration of the masses.
Right now most people want to know the following: Are there Elite missions in Elona? If there are, how do we access it/them?
I think from there people can/will figure the rest out for themselves even if it means switching over to Euro ~_^
Whiplashr
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Originally Posted by The Admins Bane
It's laughable how people are willing to grind for hours just to have "control"..elite missions won't change..yet, I expect in the future that another gateway will be provided..Anet loves keeping the whiners happy..
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Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Eviance
Str0b0 everyone starts at the bottom sometime or another, but a good group with 1-2newbs does not mean that the whole thing is dewmed because obviously if the rest are that good then it shouldn't be an issue. And if at least one of those newbs can be taught then he is a better player and can thusly find a group.
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Eviance
Yeah this is very true and very sad -_- Its wonderful when you find someone to teach though and they learn to be excellent, I just wish there were more people like that *sighs* AND I agree about the advanced info completely. When people starting complaining about the nerf I just said, give it a few days and then your searching abilities can go back into play and all will be right with the world again.
Having an awesome build on your bar and running it effectively/properly are two different things -_-
Anyways back to the majority of the topic: Gaile posted in another thread that they are looking into the elite NF missions and she will get back to us in a day or so with hopefully plenty of info.
Having an awesome build on your bar and running it effectively/properly are two different things -_-
Anyways back to the majority of the topic: Gaile posted in another thread that they are looking into the elite NF missions and she will get back to us in a day or so with hopefully plenty of info.