Dev Update: Ranks & Elite Mission

I'll believe it when I see it. In a few months chapter 4 hype will be starting to build up and I wouldn't rule out anet hoping the whole issue blows over.

I like Nightfall but it seems like it was unfinished at the time of release. The elite mission should have been there (stygian keys exist). And the intended way to achieve the top sunspear title should have been finished.

Perhaps they rushed Nightfall out because Factions was a disappointment and they didn't want more people to stop playing.

However, I think Nightfall is a big improvement over Factions and look forward to more good things from Anet.

What software vendor does this? Almost every vendor in the world releases patched functionality when they get to it and I have never been offered a rebate. Sometimes you have to pay for a fix in the real world. Now that sucks.

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this then some as one of my responsibilities involves delivering software to demanding customers. To deliver the amount of content with the quality that these guys do is amazing. Keeping two products (chapters) in development at the same time with staggered release dates and insuring they then integrate as well as they must is a real pain in the backside. This isn’t a business application either, this is a persistent game so they are delivering graphics, music, fun and keeping it as balanced as possible. I know some folks won’t appreciate the technical difficulties involved here but others of us do and I think they pull it off well.

They do a good job of maintaining the world too. Sure there are things that aren’t right sometime (AI?) but we all know they will fix it. They do every time. They do it pretty darn quick while keeping everything as balanced as possible. When there’s a problem in the game world they have to take the time to make sure the fix doesn’t make things worse.

As for the freakin elite mission…. Would you have not purchased the game if you had known it was not there? You can lie to us and yourself and answer that question with a yes but I don’t think anyone will buy that. I’m pretty sure the rest of the game community would rather have this excellent addition, warts and all, right now then wait another month.

Give them a couple of months, don’t set your expectation astronomically high (they won’t be delivering a new chapter), and wait for what they release. I’m willing to bet you will be pretty happy.

If you compare the business model, the time, love, attention and quality provided in the GW world to other MMOs I bet you’ll find that ANET does a nice job. Go read the EQ or WOW forums; the grass is not greener.

I for one, want to encourage ANET to keep teasing us and slipping out bits of info without feeling like they will get booed down. Wondering what’s coming next keeps it interesting.

I don’t mean to rant or sound like a fan boy but ANET does a darn good job and the constant complaining about a few minor items which they will fix and even improve without adding any cost will not help.

I would like to say thank you to ANET for NF and I think the majority of the players out there feel the same way.

Good job ANET, keep it coming,

JP

Personally I look at it this way:

After about a month of Factions everyone was complaining about being bored and not having anything to do and so forth and so special weekends starting being doled out to us to keep it interesting. Some complained, others were happy but it gave us something to do.

If these missions were out now and we could be allowed access and so forth then in a few months everyone will be bored, prices on "leet" weapons will have dropped and everyone would be bitching about how bored they are. I agree about the let down of "they should already be ingame" HOWEVER I am happier that the content in this game is so much more enthralling than Factions and I do believe that alone will keep me hanging around in game till the elite missions come out.

For those who doubt they will come out, Anet usually doesn't say one thing and then COMPLETELY back out of it. Granted the missions may in the end suck - or getting access might be too restrictive, but who knows? I am content to wait because that means I can take my time and enjoy the game and not have to worry about beating the clock to get to the end game goodies so I can have more money for skills.
Basically in a nutshell I appreciate the wait as it gives me more time to catch up in game via taking it easy.

Well one thing i never thought anet was, was a company that gave me the buyer beware feeling, but this one really takes the cake. A-net has hundreds of people running all over the map looking for an elite mission that wasn't included with release and now you won't say whether the hero that is mentioned is even there? I'd REALLY be totally fine with "we just ran out of time", updates to come. Not the "oh, we are adding all this FREE content just for you, soon!" even though it was supposed to exist...... You're updates have always been free, that's what makes this an even better game!

Granted I haven't beaten the game yet even, but still, a-net soooo should have known that people would be searching for content that doesn't exist far before making this announcement. I can see why you're dangling the carrots, but you MUST know by now the mules are only going to bite you later. Make it clear what content is in the game now before this turns into even more of a mockery, IMO.

You guys made a really great chapter, why muck it up with info about features/content that aren't even included yet? If it was too late to change the manuscripts, there should have been some sort of notice about TBA features/content.

This post by Gaile really just feels like PR clean-up. I'm glad you're adding new content, great game so far, lose the mystery about features that aren't included. I'm starting to feel like I'm awash with corporate mumbo jumbo and unorganization.

As several people pointed out, waiting for the update will keep people playing til then. Second, why is it such a big deal that people ran around looking for it? At least you had fun, maybe got yourself an Explorer title or found stuff that you weren't looking for but it's good to know where it is.

As for me, I'll say "Thank you" to Gaile for actually taking the time to come to the forums and make not ONE, but several posts. I used to be a TES gamer (Morrowind and Oblivion, anyone?), and I can say that, while Bethsoft made some great games, very rarely have I seen someone from the company post inside their forums or actually pay attention to what the fans were saying.

Now, I've bought all three chapters, and yes, I'll buy the next one with no hesitation as well, even if I am getting slightly bored with no elite mission. But being bored made me decide to go cap each and every single elite that exists. So to all you bored people - there's still a lot to do. Go cap elites and get those titles maxed.

I know this is late and in response to something Gaile said on page 2, but, regarding Razah, a simple yes he is in the game or no he is not in the game would suffice. People spent hours looking for the elite mission, that is obviously not in the game, but the information was revealed late, I don't want to spend hours searching for something that isn't in the game again, so is he in or not?

Dude, you are confusing PC gamer with ArenaNet. Anet did not say to them it would be available at RELEASE. It WILL BE available, and PC Gamer did not say elite missions would be available at release anyway.

S-Patrick

I agree. I'm sure the whole Inscriptions idea was first mentioned briefly in PCGamer magazine so people bought expensive, rare weapons to inscribe which was, as we know now, not so straightforward. People were annoyed at NCSoft/ArenaNet for their lost gamble when their 'old' weapons weren't scribable. The morale of the story is, 3rd part publishers aren't a solid source of knowledge so take that info with a pinch of salt.

Does it really hurt so bad that we'll have to wait a bit for those Sundering Shiny Weapons of Expensiveness in an Elite area?

I dunno, Anet is great and all, but to use the McDonalds analogy that some people screwed up, it just seems kind of like this:
Unien goes to McD's and orders value meal.
Unien gets value meal. Unien wonders where the fries are and searches for them to no avail. Person behind counter then states that they never told me when I was going to get fries, but that they are in fact making them right now and that Unien should feel special because I'm getting the fries, which I ordered.

I don't really have a problem that it's delayed, I just think, "How hard could it possibly be to admit you unintentionally mislead us, and that we aren't getting "free special content," it's getting "promised content late.""

Got me



Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the elite mission not being in game yet, nor do I have a problem waiting for it, (IMO I think a staggered release of content for a new chapter is a great thing).

The issue I have is with the game documentation ('manuscript') mentioning it as being a part of the game, and no response from support or anyone at Arena-net confirming it was either in game or not. (Although I suppose 9 days after release isn't too long to wait for a reply to this question.)

I feel that Arena-net should have given us a heads-up, addendum, note or answered support questions about this earlier in the week.

If the developement team for Nightfall will still be working on finishing it at Christmas, what does this say about their next project - Chapter 5? Do they only get 10 months at it instead of a year?

And if Nightfall wont be finished until Christmas I will just wait and buy it then.

So, after sleeping on it, I decided to come back to this thread.

I'm not pissed that the elite mission isn't in the game yet. I know that tight deadlines sometimes get missed, other priorities take precedence, etc... In fact, I told Gaile in a pm almost a week ago now, that I'd rather be told "it's not in the game yet, sorry, we're working on it and will get it in there as soon as we can" than to be told "no comment."

My complaint is the timing and nature of this "dev update." We should have been told a week ago that the elite mission wasn't in the game. Some people were through the game by last Sunday and started looking for it. There were a number of discussions on a number of boards about it and I know Gaile was asked about it whenever she was online. Many people spent a lot of time looking for it, and A-net knows this.

To now come out and say that it's bonus free content to be added at a later date is crap. It's not bonus content, it's an advertised part of the game. We shouldn't be grateful for this upcoming update, we should be expectant.

When I'm project manager on a project and I know I can't make a deadline on a specific feature, you gotta know I'm damned sure going to let the customer know that I can't make the deadline, prior to the completion date. I'm not going to wait until 10 days later, when all the customer's people have been looking around for the feature, trying to get it to work, to come out and say "oh, ya, we're going to add that at a later date, don't you feel lucky?"

Please don't belittle me with the "well, we never actually said it was going to be in there at release" garbage. You're better than that.

Do you understand why I'm pissed?

i'm glad that gaile gave us a strait answer on this. however, i'm not happy with the game "documentation". as a customer, i feel a bit cheated because in the manual it's mentionned that the elite mission is there just like razah.

sure, things WILL be there soon but, i'm annoyed they put it in the manual as already existing at the moment i bought the product.

and another thing that nobody mentioned is Heroes Ascent. out of all the things Anet "misleads" us about, Heroes Ascent pisses me off the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
taken from Nightfall Manuscripts page 131: "Once you arrive in Heroes Ascent, you'll need to form a group of eight people before you can enter the first mission, a qualifying round."

now you all know heroes ascent consists of a team of 6 ppl. this change was made a while BEFORE nightfall was released. sooo, what should a person who buys this product understand? that anet will increase back the party to 8 or that anet strait Lies about their product?

i wonder if anet has anything to say about this.
(yes i was that bored to read the damn manual)

Um....most likely the manuals were printed before the change was even considered. Yes the change was before the release of NF, but not way before. What was it one - two weeks before? And you think that the thousands of manuals were all printed, bound together, shipped to packaging companies, and then put into their boxes with the respective game in just that one - two weeks? I highly doubt it.

One thing that really bothers me about this thread are the people who are being apologetic about the absence of the elite mission.

Who the hell are you people to judge where to draw the line about what's acceptable where it comes to which content is available from the start and which part we're going to have to wait for?

I have a friend who only gets to play a few hours a week. He started a dervish and probably won't get to Kourna until later this week. Now, does the presence of people like him imply that the latter 15 or so missions don't need to be included upon release? Should he then be posting about "how much there is to do in the game" while we wait for them? Hell no. Neither should you be flapping your gums about the elite mission. Some people are ready for it, they were promised one, and it isn't there.

Just because you're not yet ready or eager to play the elite mission that the manuscripts do after all promise us, gives you no ground AT ALL to decide that we're being whiny about it not being here right now. You guys do NOT make up the grand cosmic scale upon which the merits of a game's contents are gauged. You're JUST another person posting on a forum, just like the rest of us. You're not special, and your apologetics about why it isn't a big deal that the game is incomplete right now are NOT valid in the face of the fact that the game is INDEED incomplete.

Thank you.

The people complaining about this have apparently never purchased software before. A minor error in the documentation? A correction being issued in less than two weeks? Geez. I wish more COTS software had problems this trivial.

i always read the manuals, even after waiting a whole damn month for my copy of Factions to arrive. O/c i skip the usual 'how to control your character' crap but I love to read the background and the info on creatures and such.

Well, I don't really BLAME Anet for all this, i know they have a lot going on and such. I also think (although i cannot confirm it right now) that on the actual ce box, it mentions an elite mission, the heros and joining across districts content and features. It's purely false information, yes with PC gamer, with Anet's advertising, as well as rumors.

But to me, this is something that should have been sqwaushed before the release to avoid any of this later *fixing* of errors. A couple reason i feel that NF really wasn't complete apon release, buggy AI, incomplete (announced) features, *special areas* that lead no where, incompletable quests and mission masters, etc... For a seasoned, well established game, it seems as though they dropped the ball.

I don't want to nit-pick really, I'm enjoying the game... Still think they should come clean on this missing content instead of "well we never said it would be in with the release". Gawd forbid they make a mistake.

Gaile, I seriously appreciate your interaction on this board and feel like the response time is excellent. I' admit I stopped reading the posts back on page six because with only 24 hours in the day, my thread devotion needs to end at about an hour. Considering how much time I've spent playing NF I can't believe how far others have gone (though I did spend all weekend dye farming and I absolutely love the dye preview feature). Looking forward to more content. However I must admit I like to savor these games and while I have a host of level 20 characters I have yet to finish any of the three campaigns. So I guess I'm slow.

cheers

About the Rank, one of two things needs to happen:
1) Remove the level 8 restriction.
2) Reset eveyone to level 8. (Either fix the exploit and reset NOW, or fix it later and let everyone know ahead of time that it will be reset)

It is unfair for people who have used an exploit to gain an advantage. Imagine the imballance in the economy while a few people sell their (assumed) rewards from this mission.

Now, about the Elite Mission issue:
As a Technical Writer, I can understand inaccuracy in the manual. I have little sympathy for those who looked for hours for something that didn't exist (as if you were forced against your will). By in large, clients (read customers) don't always care about the timing of relase as long as they know BEFORE the delivery date. I'd rather you had a few months to work the bugs out, but LET US KNOW. I doubt the majority of players forked over 50-70 dollars (or more if multiple accounts) with only the elite mission in mind, but it was as good as promised.

When factions came out, the alliance system was broken for about a week. There was a polite notice saying really sorry but we found out a huge bug, we're working on it as fast as we can. Sorry.

It would have been nice to have something on release date saying. The Elite missions as mentioned in the manual Coming soon! AND Christmas gifts for all.

People would not have felt put out, denied content or any of the other feelings here. But would have gone yay, we only have 1000 things to do before the elite missions come out.

I feel the need to comment hear for feedback reasons.
I love the new expansion, and think it's the best yet. I also respect the fact that this game doesn't charge a monthly fee.
That said, with the extensive playtesting and development time this game should have had fiewer bugs and content under construction. Perhaps in the future you should open up your playtesting cycle to all of a large portion of current GW players, so that the appearintly overworked programmers can get some much needed early feedback from the community.
Second, I dislike the implied circumstances of GW Guru and Gaile (no offense). The official site offers no message boards or Dev discorse, and instead we come to Guru and are lucky enough to hear from someone who is just removed enough from whats going on to provide damage controle on issues while not being held accountable for anything that may be said or need to be said. It just feels cowerdly for Anet to not reach out to the community in an official way.
Third, a suggestion. I have lost meny guild mates and watched the population drop by some small degree due to lack of any official moderation of offensive behavior by less mature players. Something as simple as a feedback option on clicking players names would go a long way towards fixing this. I'd urge something to be done, as meny players are tired of being cursed at while in town or spamed whisper insults while on missions. Lets face it, you can only block so meny people before you wish for a system wide change to encourage better behavior.

I wanted to explain the delay in posting this information In fact, I posted about the ranks and Elite Mission as quickly as I could but it required a few days to check several facts with the designers. I suppose I could have said "Oh, yeah, not currently in the game," but my desire was to provide more information--as much as we're able to give you at this time. In the future, understanding what you've requested, if such a situation arises again I will try to get the bare-bones info to present early, you bet!

Just to be clear: There are no "Christmas gifts for all." I am sorry if anyone got that impression from the wording that I used. The "gift" to which I referred in my post was the update, and I used the wording because the update may be out at Christmas, and I think that it'll make splendid addition to the holidays if it is. That's what I was referring to in my post. (Sorry for any confusion.)

Lastly, Razah is not yet in the game. That character will be part of the upcoming major update.

Thanks.

Even bare-bones info, with an addendum that more info will be forthcoming when received would be wonderful whenever a major problem is discovered. I can only speak for myself when I say that I appreciate straightforward, to the point discussion/info.

IMO, the issues with Nightfall are a prime indicator that ArenaNet's planned release of a new game every 6 months is too ambitious. It seems to me that they haven't given themselves quite enough time to get everything right. I, for one, would welcome a change to, say every 8 months, if it means that the games are complete, with very few bugs. Again, just my opinions.

Here's an idea!!

Why not just enjoy the great game we have here and when they're ready to dish out an update, we'll be ready for it. Nightfall offers a LOT of gameplay and I for one have only scratched the surface!

Thanks for the Clarification about Christmas. Just so my sleep deprived brain does'nt jump to the wrong ideas. Does this mean that wintersday's will certainly be here by Christmas, but the elite missions may not?

People still have loads to do in NF, and hopefully the elite missions requirements will be it' elite to complete it, but not grind-o-fest to get in.

Thanks again

Out of curiosity, if you JUST killed monsters to get to lvl8 lightbringer without taking any of the quest rewards, would the rewards add up to get you to lvl9?

Obviously something I'm not inclined to try as I've already done a number of quests which give lightbringer points.

And offtopic.. where do rubies and saphires drop? I'm aware they drop randomly, but.. they're too rare a drop for the casual player to even consider getting vabbian armor... surely there's a place they drop more? We know ecto drops in UW on a regular basis, and once in a while in Fissure... the way things are going, Saphires and Rubies will soon be more expensive than ecto

the level 8 restriction will be removed at the update!!
why reset the people who did figure out a way to get to level 9??
there are no rewards for getting r9 except a complete title.. and if your reffering to rewards from the elite mision, well since there is NO elite mission yet, having ppl who are already r9 doesnt matter (just yet).

now if anet release the update in such a way that the getting to r9 was impossible and elite mission were at the same time.. then yes, that could raise an issue as they could rush the elite mission get the rewards and sell them.. but how is that different from someone power-rushing the game to sell the forgotten weapons?

IIRC Lightbringer poitns only go upot rank 6 (15,000) The issue at hand refers to Sunspear points.

At teh vabbian officials inside the bazaar you can trade contracts in for the gems (ruby sapphire AND diamond)

Actually its an exploit for those that got above rank 9. Plain and Simple. So are we now to believe ANET is now supporting INGAME exploits. Something to think about there. Otherwise if i was one of the people that got over rank 8 sunspears i'd be worried cause according to the EULA thats bannable.

Your comment presupposes that this as an exploit which appears to be as yet undecided by Anet.

I am just happy that I will eventually get a chance to make R9 and have no issue with those gamers who figured it out. Thanks Gaile for letting us know what was going on!

First, let me say that I truly enjoy Guild Wars. All three games to the extent that I have 3 accounts up and running all 3 campaigns. I have gotten alot more than what I paid for. And the content is truly amazing. The artwork alone is beyond what I could have dreamed existed in a pc game. I do wish there was a way I could slave the 3 accounts together to better access them in game and a drop down for internet access to start so the game would remember all 3 internet addresses and I could pick the one I wanted to use. Or be alble to access all three from the pick character level.

I am very happy with Nightfall. The heros are a great new addition. I do not play too much with other people. I usually only play with one or two other real people and this gives us much more control over the henches and heros. And it expecially allows us do do things we could not have done before. I am glad that you have finally decided to take notice of the few of us who don't like to join large groups. The flags alone are a life saver, I was so tired of the monks dying to res a dead player when I could use rebirth on them safely.

I would like a place to put all the toys I get (pumpkin helms,santa hats...etc) that does not use my storage or make them account based so one hat could be worn by anyone on that account. And the birthday presents are beyond amazing. I would like a key ring that is account based so any of my characters could get the keys out of storage. I am very happy with the material storage system.

Sunspear points. Well, I got my 7500 way early just mapping the areas I found. And yes I would like to get more. It is a bit less fun playing and not getting them. But I've gone on the lightbringer points. You can always save the quests that reward points to do after you max out. As long as I know there will be a way to advance them that dosen't envolve PvP I will be happy. And yes, I think the cheat should be stopped.

I'm not too happy with the new chest system. We solved part of it by always opening the chests in the same order. That way you get a fairer amount of golds. I'm not sure why you started this. I guess those chest runs got you in a snit. The keys and the chests could use a bit of a rethink in my opinion. Basically, paying 600g or more for a 116g purple item is a bit of a pain. You don't get what you pay for.

Last, how about a upgrade and inscription trader that works like the rune trader. For most items I am happy to take what the trader gives. Trying to sell stuff in towns can get extremely boring. A green weapon trader would be a good thing too.

So Good Job. Some of us are happy. The emote mission was a bit lame. But they are a part of the game and so I guess they must be fair too use and it was a bit funny. And I did finally get it thanks to all the practice I got on Holloween. Thanks for the hours and hours and hours of creative play.

I'm extremely happy with Nightfall, and some non-GW friends have started to play it also.

I don't have a problem with some of the endgame content being missing. I haven't completed the game yet (although I'm very close). It's really not a big deal to wait another couple of months for the update, I'll be having plenty of fun with new characters or getting old characters through the content, in the mean time.

I really want a Sorrow's Furnace sized update but i bealive with the Original guildwars there was like a year to make it so i guess either slow down chapters (whichi woould help em alot) or just add new content

I love how Gaile is now making sure to add 'christmas-time' update so that when it (inevitably) comes later, she doesn't get screwed over. Otherwise, I think her information about covers most questions. Is there a reason for this topic to stay open?

I like how every one is assuming the elite mission will require you be a rank 9 sunspear! (which would be a bit silly IMO) Its more likely it requires you have finished the game (as hinted by the seer of truths in the chantry)

Ah, I just registered to say this: I love Guildwars! This single story made my day!!!

Well guys I like guild wars, not too botherd about the elite mission, not rushing through the game. I'm taking my time doing all the quests and mapping for the grandmaster cartographer title. Hoping to get my 'Kind of a Big Deal' title when I do (or with protector of Elonia, which ever comes first )

People who run through the game in 2 days since launch miss so much out of the game and I my opinion ruin the overall experience for themselves. Take your time enjoy it but also have a life and not spend 12 hours a day glued to your PC screen.

The Sunspear title thing is annoying but hey as long as it gets fixed big deal, Nighfall is an excellent game and an excellent rpg.

Overall I'm very pleased with Nightfall big thanks to Arenanet, looking forward to the elite mission when it does surface, and by no means does Nightfall seem imcomplete as a game.

Just my views, agree or disagree I don't mind.

Just so the issues are clear here, I would like to clarify some points:

1) The game is wonderful, without an elite mission, so people crying foul and saying they were jobbed out of their money are not taking an objective stand what so ever.
2) The game has bugs, lots of them, as did Prophecies and Factions when they came out. Good grief I have had to scheme and plot just to get all 20 masters on my ele. However, this is normal, I am unaware of any game that comes out perfect upon release. All the great games I love, (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter, ...) had major issues that required a service release.
3) Nothing required any of us to FIND the Elite Mission or Rahza, those who did so obviously had TONS of other things to do. Not the least of which is getting their heroes for all their characters on level 20. Most of those people wanted to get in there first for bragging rights or to make lots of money, neither are things ANet needs to cater to. The game has HEAPS of content that people can enjoy sans the elite misison.
4) My complaint was about phrasing the shortcomings as if they were a cute challenge to us all that we bumbling fools failed to notice. It was a bug/shortcmoing, those who found an exploit are crafty, but this should not be behavior encouraged and/or endorsed by ANet. Otherwise, in the future, as a Wiki admin who cares about the game, the next time I find an exploit that allows me to ID a lot of Gold or amass large minutes of the Drunkard title, I won't bother tell ANet about it. This is the point that I found objectional in Gaile's response. Otherwise, it is good they have responded, getting back to us in a week is not exactly "late" or "tardy."

I think that the reason people are jumping to the conclusion that you have to be Sunspear R9 or R10 if thats even available is the fact that Gaile said something to the effect that the top ranks being unattainable currently was intended. To me and it appears many others that is saying that when the elite mission becomes available there is a very good chance that only those of Sunspear R9 or R10 will have access.

If this is the case those who acheived the rank through an exploit should have their title reset to R8 because it gives them an unfair advantage in accessing the new content while those who played within the rules and didn't abuse an exploit in the game will have to go back and farm around 7000 points while those who abused the exploit get to play the new content and most likely profit from it due to outrageously high prices for green drops from the elite mission.