Favor system needs to be changed!

ill add my 2 cents. Europe = More ppl, more PvPers
America = WoW, FPS Games, GW.
Korea = Many mmorpgs, GW is not as popular as others.
Japan = Not too sure.
Taiwan = Not too sure.

I feel sry for Japan and Taiwan, they hardly ever get to access these areas.

@ Jenny2: It's not about getting something for free, it's about getting access to it and the fact that pvp play opens pve content.

The whole nation lol, a lot of americans joined the euro server, there goes your whole nation argument. Before you post something with an attitude, be sure to know at least what you're talking about.

I also remind you I'm not crying as I can get in every day, I just come up for my fellow adventurers in other parts of the world.

I repeat myself but it's something to think about: Turn it around and just imagine, what if a pvp player can only access halls if he/she talks with the fow crafter, time and time again. So we can say pve for it noob. Would be fun no?

Just because you dont agree with what the thread is proposing and we cant convince you that the current system is unfair doesnt mean the thread should be closed. We're not asking for a "silver platter" we're just asking that we be able to access the "optional" content. Sorry if I live in america, does that make my 50 american dollars not worth as much to Anet? the factions "elite" missions are reserved for those who apparently love faction farming the most, not for the most skilled players. Stop acting as though the system benefits those who actually deserve it, because if it did, no one would be putting forth logical and well thought out arguments against this system. the only arguments against seem to be "youre not working hard enough, therefore you dont deserve it" or "if youre not skilled enough to take favor, you dont deserve UW/FOW".

Just another loser troll...

I don't think there's anything wrong with the favor system. I remember the days when america held favor most of the time, but I don't remember europeans whining about changing the favor system. What we did was play HA and kick yankee butt out of HoH. In the good old days Korea held favor and just winning HoH against Koreans was a feat in itself, let alone taking favor from them. So Europeans decided to work together, just like the Koreans did. When you had a map with 4 korean teams and one from America and Europe, you'd get 2 korean teams hitting americans, and another 2 hitting the europeans. It was frustrating but some people learned from that.

IMHO, america should stop whining about not having favor and start playing something other than "you know the four letters". I remember seeing math win hoh a few days ago. My first thought was "omg, they found a way to make iway work in 6v6". Went to observer mode and got my thought confirmed. Did they hold HoH? Ofcourse not, don't be daft.

There were almost daily threads on the subject....................

Yes some of them 100's of pages long. Changes to the favor/elite system have been hinted at by AN but my old cynical head says they were more attempts to keep people quiet than a serious attempt to revamp it.

One of the things people miss in discussing this, is that it is the only part of the game where players from all around the world cannot form teams together(yes the lornars temple is an option but the criteria is too specific). I would love to meet and team with friends from the US but cannot due to this very broken game mechanic.

People had hoped for a change to the favor system in nightfall, after one of Gailes comments about a /favor command but maybe these are due in the 'update' a few months from now

The favor system is perfect...

... as an example of how ANet doesn't understand their player base.

The ones really into HoH couldn't give a rodent's rectum who gets to go into the UW or Fow, while the ones most interested in playing those areas couldn't be bothered to go play HoH if their lives depended on it. Yet the two activities are tied together in a nonsensical relationship where one is dependent on the other.

It accomplishes nothing except to cause all kinds of absurd complications.

European servers are awash with expatriates. Americans, and many asians that can't communicate with the locals at all. Has anyone ever put on local chat while in ToA? It's horrible mess of insults and extreme nationalist and even racist sentiments. ANet is actively encouraging that in their game with their 'world at war' nonsense.

Do you know how favour works?

Once I've ascended I can gain access to FoW/UW s'long as someone on a European server has got us favour. I do NOTHING to gain us favour yet I get access. I am not ELITE, and I certainly can't play PVP well. So, apart from the fact I need to be ascended entering these areas is NOT elitist.

Without the people in HoH I wouldn't be able to enter these areas no matter how good I was unless I earned favour myself. I can't. So I rely on these people. I'm lucky enough to be in an area that has plenty of people willing to do this for me.

It's already been mentioned how hard it would be to gain favour and then try to gather a team for FoW/UW. Totally impracticle. So we ALL rely on these people to gain it for us. If they're not there (or not enough of them to keep it) then we're knackered. Is this fair? Should I be able to enter FoW more than an American/Korean ... etc just because we (Europe) have more PVPers, when I'm not better at the game than they are?

Your example is oversimplified. Actually you have 4 clubs (where I come from even a club with professional teams will usually have casual branches and even different sports), each with football teams and golfers.

Now the "championship golf course" is only open to players from the club whose football team actually holds the title... Of course this is a reward for excellent sportsmanship, golf is a sport, so it's a great idea!

Or maybe not, on second thought... What does the golfers' access to the course have to do with the football championship? Not much, as both groups are vastly disjoint...

Now THAT made my day! Where can I sign?

and so UW / FOW are reserved for tho who apparently love fame farming.

lets say this way the PVPers get a special something to balance their "money amount" or well in other words they get special pve content bc they dont got that much time for PVE when PVPing and that little PVE is special for them then.

dont get me wrong im not totally against ANY access to FOW / UW but then instead there should be a system providing a fair balance towards the PVPers .... for example lets say "5k access cost" when not favor or a daily access limit or a pre-quest (hard) that grants access to UW / FOW after finishing (that would prevent farming-only access for example)...so that the normal crafting stuff and questing stuff in FOW / UW can also be done by those who dont have favor but please not the same rights for those who dont have favor comparing to those who have it.

Most of those who win HoH, could give two bagels and a biscuit about PvE. So FoW/UW is useless to them. I know some PvPers care about money, then you have the ones that play both. But I rarely see a PvP person (r8+) out and about doing PvE if they are winning halls. I have seen them, but it's not often enough to clarify that they should deserve such an award when you have the fame and the rank emotes and the chance of getting a sword worth more than some people's souls. (which is a pretty worthless soul as irl that money would be about 200-400 dollars). Granted a req 8 15^50 Crystalline is rare as hell but most gold C-swords can net you over 300k. That's how they make their money, if they even care about it.

And I always thought they were the gods of Tyria, Cantha and Elona, not of our world. They sure aren't part of any organized religion I ever heard of.

These gods must be powerful beings indeed, being able to sense that a person is sitting at a computer in a reality one step removed from the game world, in one continent or another. Why do these mystical beings care what continents we players are from? It boggles the minds of mere mortals such as myself!

Or rather, it doesn't make any sense at all, storywise. None whatsoever. It's rubbish.

how is it unfair??
whoever wins HoH the most holds favor. everyone has the same chance. it only takes 8 people to do it

Well I've been in ToA when we lost favor and I've heard some racist/profanity from people there. So yeah half of the population of GW that wants to go to FoW, doesn't like Europe/Europeans when they take favor. I just say "hey we suck so what can you do?"

When you say it like that it does sound fair, but it's not.

If you have 50 groups of 8 Europeans playing in HoH against 10 American groups and 1 Japanese group then you can see how unfair the system is. The fact is, for some reason the other countries just don't have the groups doing the things needed to earn favour. Which then leads us back to "well it's upto them to do that" which as we've discussed it impracticle and not going to happen to reverse the situation (or even level it out).

BTW - The number of groups I mentioned above is just a number. Real numbers I don't know so I took a WILD guess.

Isnt it when your in international districts and your with a majority of europeans you become europe also?Just wondering.

KurtTheBehemoth: In the early days of GW it was America that dominated the HoH, and Europe had favor much less often, let alone Korea. I didn't see Americans demand that the system shall be changed back then, did I!? But when the system turns into a disadvantage suddenly they cry for a "fairer" system. Double standards, anyone?

But Korea, Japan etc have never complained and have favour less than everyone else so this still affects them. Whether or not you think the Americans are just moaning because they don't get favour much the fact is it's not fair the way it is. Imo. Take the Americans out of the situation and it's STILL not fair.

This is a discussion of the Favor system. Any more inane posts on the topic of racism or PvE vs PvP and this thread will be closed.

Six, not eight, and frankly that makes no sense. If winning HoH allowed the winners (and/or their guild and/or alliance) into UW/FoW it might, but instead it's a matter of, say, me and my team winning HoH (as if) so people I have no connection to, other than happening to be one of 350mil people living on the same continent, can go into UW/FoW. Why would the gods of Tyria give a rodent's rectum about what continent I live in?

Beyond the inherent lunacy of making PVE content dependant on PVP, the sheer lack of any reasonable connection between winning HoH and UW/FoW access makes the whole thing depressingly asbsurd.

Yes, you did, at least you did if you were reading these boards at the time. This is not a new discussion by any stretch of the imagination and Americans are hardly Johnny-come-latelys to the anti-Favor table.

Few Korean or Japanese GW players venture onto these boards, for obvious reasons. They have their own boards where, I suspect, this subject has also been beaten into the dust, then beaten some more.

I would not make the assumption that they have never complained just because you don't see them doing it here.

I switched to europe for pvp and never lagged Kakumei

Actually, i thought the favor system was flawed since the beginning. Kinda sucks for europe cause they never had it. Now they have it like 24/7. America might get a few hours of favor, but thats at like 10 or 11 pm est. Most American pvpers don't really care about winning back the favor because it doesn't effect them, they just go to the internation districts which is mainly european. Sure we could all switch to european servers but still....

I'm just thinking outloud here...

Maybe they could have have the first 5min or so of every hour allows anyone in before the battle for favor begins...

Maybe they could have a weekend event that opens it up to all players giving hte HoHs a break.

Maybe you could do a quest that would give you the blessing of the god for x amount of time even if your country doesn't have favor.

Those are my thoughts... either way it doesn't effect me as I hardly go there but I can understand people's frustration. Good luck~

you did not pay for them! you paid for the OPPORTUNITY to be good enough to reach those areas, be that through pvp or not. It's the same thing as saying: "I bought this game to win, and I dont...this game sucks".

the problem seems to me to be the difference between the standards of players from Europe and the from America. Only when playing with americans (except from a few dutch "episodes") have I encountered people using drugs while playing, Me/e FC meteor showers with 10 fire magic, and monks insisting to use gale...I'm not saying there arent good pvp'ers from America, it's just that the majority of players from America seems to be pretty...(I'm Norwegian and can't come up with a word to illustrate my thoughts) get a team, hold the HoH, and go to fow or uw when you lose...pvp is a part of the game and a part of the accessibility of fow and uw, so if you want to go there, then earn it!

I can't believe what I'm reading here. It's part of the whole discussion. I hate to break your bubble but here are the facts:

- The favor system is based on PVP play, PVE content (uw and fow) opens for the continent that has favor of the gods. What's inane about this fact? It's the way it is. And it's a contradiction.

- People 'curse' players from other parts of the world that have favor. Do I need to back this up with screenshots so it wouldn't be 'inane' to you?

These facts are reasons why the favor system should be changed and thus completely on topic.

Agreed, and the amount of Americans (theres a few regulars I've noticed) that suddenly pop up in the Euro ToA districts as soon as America gets favor and start shouting insults and are basically trying to start an argument because it appears to me that thats pretty much all these people play the game for is ridiculous and also hints that they may just be locked on a Euro server

I think it shouldn't be PvP related as most PvP players I know arent really that bothered about going UW/FoW anyway, perhaps a challenge mission which rewards a key or something along those lines for the PvE only people.

I did read these boards at the time, and I did see a lot of Europeans complain, but rarely did I see an American concur. The vast majority told the Europeans to "stop whining". The standard reply was something along the lines of: "If you can't handle it, go play WoW."

Hence the reason I stated 'inane' (useless) posts. Turning this into an argument over racism is not the point of this thread.

Thank you for telling me a very basic fact of the game. It's not inane, and it's not what I was referring to. Threads such as these have appeared before, many times. Typically, they descend into country-versus-country forumbattles rather than coherent discussion. Since this thread is still fairly devoid of that, it's still open.

No. Are you saying that because people do it in-game, it would be 'right' to curse other races in this thread? Re-read my post, the discussion of racism pertaining to the favor system isn't a problem, as it's part of the issue. Irrelevant posts about the nature of racism, on the other hand, lead nowhere.

If you buy a game, it isn't unreasonable to expect access to its content. The argument that people shouldn't be magically able to go to abadon's mouth either or whatnot is a red hering. People aren't saying that entrance to these areas shouldn't be earned. They're saying that the act of earning it shouldn't be in a completely different part of the game. You have to be ascended in the first place, and no one here has asked for that restriction to be removed because it makes sense. They've not asked for the fee to be removed. They've even proposed paying more! Secondly, it isn't as if this is some area that you have to be "good enough to reach." As it stands now, its only an annoying matter of waiting around. As for the "Then go PVP argument," I've said before, there are some players who like both PvP and PvE and some that greatly prefer one over the other and there's nothing wrong with that. Of the people in my alliance that want to go do halls every night, most of them care less about going to the underworld or doing anything in PvE in general.

@ avarre: Ok thank you for clearing that up, I understand what you mean now. People shouldn't curse other races ingame nor on this board and it would be a shame if this thread would be closed due to that. My sincere apologies I took your message wrong.

This game is about balancing pve with pvp. If you're a pve person and find that you do not have favour enough in your territory, take it upon yourself to motivate people, get groups together and win halls for your country. Do not bitch and moan about the system. It is there because it encourages a sense of locality in a worldwide MMO. Also, when you buy this game, it is understood that some content will be restricted, as in anygame. You dont expect to pick up GTA: San Andreas and fly off in a military helicopter as soon as you start off. There are investments to be made in every game to access new content. That is what keeps it fresh and exciting. The investment in Guild Wars to access the content in the realm of the gods is to have your nation win the hall of heroes. It is not a very difficult task. I and many others have done it several times. Find the motivation in yourself to do it.

EDIT: nerf fire eles imo

Clone summed it up pretty well. Odd, as I rarely agree with him.

The idea that someone you've never met happening to be successful in a part of the game completely unrelated to this content actually controls your access to that content is ludicrous.

Aparently people need a reminder here.

The way Guild Wars was origionally designed was that a person would play through the PVE storyline to unlock items, runes, and skills usable for the pvp content. in which said player would venture into heros ascent and join a random team (of 7 other players at the time), there they would fight against other players for the right to win the favor of the gods for their country aka server. by doing this it allowed access to higher end "Specialty" areas as a reward for that country aka server having the favor of the gods. Said player would then make a group of friends that he or she gets along with and are skilled as a group. then said players would form a guild and purchase a guild hall using the sigil won from the halls chest. said guild would then go against other guilds formed this way to determine how they rank against other guilds.

Rinse and repeat per player.

The favor system is not flawed and is not working falsely. it is working as intended according to the game mechanic that this game was designed on. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that this is how the game was designed and set up to be this way.

Now say that you care for the PVE only aspect of it. well then you are forced to rely on others that play the game through the progression that is listed above. Most of the top american guilds have progressed through this. Most of the top guilds started as Tombs/Heros Ascent players and progressed to gvg after getting whatever rank they desired and made the proper contacts to have a group of skilled players to be able to participate in top Guild vs Guild combat as the natural flow of the game was designed. Mh, Te, Rifts, QQ, aW, as well as many many many others i cannto name off the top of my head started this way.

Months ago when america did have favor much more often is when a lot of the now top ranked gvg players were playing in tombs/HA and winning. These people earned their fame by competing and comming up with origional builds and tactics. Then IWAY, Bloodspike, etc... was introduced and americans seemed to jump on the bandwagon of gimmick builds as a quick way of trying to win. rather than taking a look at whats out there and trying to figure out a counter, well well just go in again and try once more. So these people after seeing gimmick after gimmick and build after build of terrible players that can only play one build or character in a build, that have no awareness of battlefield tactics or observation of a build as to why it works and why it doesnt, gradually migrated away from Tombs/HA and gravitated towards Guild vs Guild combat with other top ranked players and teams. Thus in a nutshell is why america doesnt have favor anymore. We have teams going in that are looking for the next UB3R holding buildzor like bloodspike that can earn them everything for as little as possible.

Which goes to the point of the whole thread and many threads on here. Lets not work for anything the way were supposed too, lets have someone hand everything to us.

Oh yes, and lets absolutely repeat this non-sequitur over and over again. I get a real kick out of people not getting the point.

Also, everyone knows the story you just told, why post that? We're discussing whether or not it needs to be changed.

Such a huge pointless post.

if you actually read the post it justifies why it doesnt need to be changed. see where i posted "The mechanic is working as intended according to the games design" and yes the tiny section that you posted which was the sum of the entire paragraph above it, is half the problem of everyone wanting the favor system being changed.

but however it seems that 3/4 of people including you ARE missing the point. and by copying the section that you did and your reply to it, was nothing but just a mere trolling suggesting that you DID miss the point all together.

The whole point is simple. The way the favor system is set up, it is working just fine. so because there is a lack of HA players in American servers right now, they should rework one of the features of the game which it was designed around?

Just because something is working as intended doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed and no discussion allowed. There's a million and one things that worked as intended but anet have one day changed.

Just because you paid for a game, it doesn't mean you get to have everything in it and access everything in it, with no effort on your part. If it did, people in mmorpgs would all be walking around in the best gear in the game on day 1 because they "paid for it". Work ethic is sadly lacking in kids these days.