Favor system needs to be changed!

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
if you actually read the post it justifies why it doesnt need to be changed. see where i posted "The mechanic is working as intended according to the games design" and yes the tiny section that you posted which was the sum of the entire paragraph above it, is half the problem of everyone wanting the favor system being changed.
Of course it's working as intended. Everyone knows it's working as intended. Did you think anyone thought it was a 2 year old bug? The tiny section that I quoted was rubbish. No one wants anything 'handed to them'. Some people just want a game that makes sense, instead of the 'intended' horse manure we have to deal with right now. Many people just don't want to go play the Hall of Heroes, or any PvP at all even. I know I won't. Ever. That doesn't mean they don't want to work for it. They just don't want to do something that does in no way relate to the reward. Progress in a game should make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
but however it seems that 3/4 of people including you ARE missing the point. and by copying the section that you did and your reply to it, was nothing but just a mere trolling suggesting that you DID miss the point all together.
If anyone is missing the point, it's YOU. No one needed a lecture about how the system is actually working right now. Everyone knows. The whole point of this discussion is whether or not we agree with how it's working right now. And you want to talk about trolling? Let me give you a REAL example of trolling: posting something challenging like "lets have someone hand everything to us." after it's long been established that no one is asking for anything to be handed to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
The whole point is simple. The way the favor system is set up, it is working just fine. so because there is a lack of HA players in American servers right now, they should rework one of the features of the game which it was designed around?
How was the game designed around continents battling for favor? That's a stretch if I ever saw one.

SirErnieMacGloop

SirErnieMacGloop

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Area 52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redly
I am an American.
I have made plenty of friends in Europe.
I have a friend who moved back to Korea and plays with their Korean friends.
I have a few contacts in Japan I like to practice my Japanese with and hang around.

Someone please explain to me why I should have to leave behind my American server friends.... or why my foreign friends should have to leave behind their friends from their continents... in order to go into the Underworld or Fissure of Woe together?

It is ludicrous to expect those other people to switch to America. Servers are continental for a reason (well, a couple of them). I don't think my Korean friend will find a lot of Koreans on the American servers.

I would really, really like to play the high-end PvE with my friends; but, given the limited number of server transfers ((how do you even move from America to Korea, anyway? The menu offered to me when I try to change servers is a choice between American and Europe)), I have to remain in American and he in Korea.

Despite the international nature of the Internet, what we have is a system that prevents the crossing of multiple boundaries. Best I can do is go to Korea; but then, how will I play with my Euro buddies?

Justification please.
This is about the only reason I can see to change the favor system or allow reasonable alternatives.
Part of what I like most about GW is the fact that I can play with/against others from all over the world.
I think Factions elite mission access was a try to alleviate this specific issue, but too restrictive IMO.

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Yes, the system is working as designed. No one is saying it isn't.

What on earth does that have to do with why it can't be changed?

Dr Imperial

Dr Imperial

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

[DVDF]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal2k6

Here's an idea they could use though, how about making the countries without favour pay more to get in to these areas? Maybe 2k or 3k instead of the usual 1k? At least that way you can still get in?

so we're all striving our hardest to get favor to save ourselves 1k?

getting favor is supposed to be...."special"....and like many ppl say...its like that by design.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Nobody's against it being special, it's when it is restrictive that there is a problem.

Perhaps making the scattered temples (Grenth in lornar's, Balthazar in falls) work regardless of favor, and add them to new chapters?

Kali Magdalene

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Washington

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
The favor system is not flawed and is not working falsely. it is working as intended according to the game mechanic that this game was designed on. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that this is how the game was designed and set up to be this way.
Apparently you could use a reminder too: People aren't arguing that the system is failing at what it's designed to do. They're not saying "this is not how the game is designed." They're saying "we think the design itself is wrong."

When someone says "the intended function isn't right" saying "it's working as intended" is not really a rebuttal. It's just stating a known fact.

lunksunkunk

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Whatever happened to Asia?

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

BTW don't forget numerous creatures in the realm of torment are also in UW and Fissure... Thus potential for Shards and Ecto is in there... It is part of the Mists after all. It will not be long before Domain of _______ is farmed in mass for Ecto.

hehe I decided not to ruin the surprise.

Shaden

Shaden

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Lost Keys to Perception {lost}

R/

I stopped reading the thread at the 4th page or so so maybe this was suggested but here I go: Because favour fits in with the storyline so well and since the PvPers could care less about UW/FoW why doesn't Anet implement an Elite Mission or area. A PvE area designed to grant favour to your team and allow you to access UW/FoW. The normal system will stay intact but when you DO NOT have global favour, you have the option of completing this task to gain entrance to the UW/FoW.

It would make sense since your still pleasing the gods, it wouldn't distrupt the current system, and it would help with all the whiners. This way everyone has a chance to visit these fun areas without having global favour, at a cost of their time/skill. (Not to mention kill any solo builds lol). To make it more interesting, prehaps with global favour you wouldn't have to pay the 1k to get in. This would make it more worth obtaining, but still not a deciding factor on who plays what and where at certain times.

Also, I do agree America has been getting less favour and it is annoying. I learn to deal with it though... Fun Fact: Did you know guild wars has more than 2 zones? NO WAI? YA WAI! Visit some of those once in a while perhaps.

Zeph

Zeph

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Wales, UK

Expect Extreme Violence [EEV]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
It also increases racism.
I nearly fell of my chair laughing at this statement.

It's a game ffs, it's nothing to do with racism at all.

I can understand you being peeved at not being able to enter uw/fow as much as you'd like but saying it increases racism is just plain stupid. There is a BIG difference between a system that lets you into a realm depending on your race and a system that lets everyone from a certain country, regardless of race/colour/creed, into a realm depending on if their country's pvp teams hold HOH.

What next? Calling Grenth a fascist? lol

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
I nearly fell of my chair laughing at this statement.

It's a game ffs, it's nothing to do with racism at all.

I can understand you being peeved at not being able to enter uw/fow as much as you'd like but saying it increases racism is just plain stupid. There is a BIG difference between a system that lets you into a realm depending on your race and a system that lets everyone from a certain country, regardless of race/colour/creed, into a realm depending on if their country's pvp teams hold HOH.

What next? Calling Grenth a fascist? lol
I'm happy I made you laugh, the message in my post is not that funny at all though.

You should have read my earlier posts where I say I have no problem at all entering uw and fow on a daily basis cause I'm on euro server. I practically lived in uw and fow. I just come up for my fellow gamers on other parts of the world.

Clearly you haven't seen any of the racist remarks yet so good for you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I'm not the only one that witnessed this many times. Many people saw racist remarks. When someone says:' dam smelly f** yanks or rednecks have favor again' or ' those yellow korean bastards...' I clearly see that as racism that we can miss as tooth pain.

Ignorance is a bliss.

Eilsys

Eilsys

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

United States

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

Mo/Me

Can't you just farm the area where Tombs used to be? Won't that drop shards and greens and such?

Vandal2k6

Vandal2k6

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Manchester, UK

The Manchester Marauders

W/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Imperial
so we're all striving our hardest to get favor to save ourselves 1k?

getting favor is supposed to be...."special"....and like many ppl say...its like that by design.
OK, make it 5k or 10k without favour. Whatever, it was just a sudgestion. I'm pretty sure I'd be chuffed if all I had to pay was 1k instead of 5 (or 10, or whatever) because we had favour. It would mean that people are still less likely to just jump into these areas if they had to pay these amount but the option is still there should they want to pay the price. It would also mean the PVPers still have an affect on the entrance to these areas.

Any other ideas should be put forward instead of just saying "no, leave it as is" and closing your eyes to a system that is so blatently unfair. If Gaile (or any other member of the dev team) see an idea that may work, they might try it out?

What about making it only available to people that have FINISHED the game. I know so many people that have rushed to assention to get into FoW and have skipped half the missions. Make it so you only enter if you've done ALL missions (not including bonusses). Plus the extra money for none favour as I've mentioned?

Come on, work out what could work and give the Anet guys a hand.

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

I'm sorry but is this called Guild Whiners Guru nowadays?

When I started GW the UW/FoW areas had a magical connotation since we never had favor, I had to switch to the US servers to get my first taste of it 15 months ago, the solution was simple, the EU players got better at PvP and nowadays the EU servers have favor very often.

Yes, there were EU players whining about how unfair it was back then too and they got the same answer then that the US players get now "Get better at PvP".
UW/FoW has always been decided by the outcome of PvP battle and I dont see any reason why that should now change all of a sudden.

seut

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

for all saying: "just get better"

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php
Global Statistics
America 270 Guilds 27.0%
Taiwan 5 Guilds 0.5%
Europe 632 Guilds 63.2%
Japan 74 Guilds 7.4%
Korea 19 Guilds 1.9%


The favor system favors the area with most pvp players.
In summer 2005 most guilds were on the american server (many euro guilds played there also). When the first tournament was announced, the exodus of guilds to the european server started and the favor shifted with it.
Now europe has the majority of guilds interested in pvp.

Carth`

Carth`

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
The fact that PVP play is needed to unlock PVE content is a contradiction that goes beyond me.
It's really quite simple. The game was designed to be PvE and PvP, you play both. You play through PvE to unlock stuff for your character, and then move on to PvP, because once you've finished the PvE campaign, that's it, you've finished it. The only thing left to do is get stuff that looks different, but with the same stats.

The trouble is 80% of the Guild Wars population didn't see this, and once they finished the campaign, they did one of two things: played it again with a different character, or they farmed. Farmed for what? Prestige items. Or in some cases, nothing. They farmed for recreation. Farming WAS the game for them. And PvP never crossed their minds.

The current system is fine for me because I live in Europe, but I do concede that the HA/favour system was based around certain gameplay ideas that proved not to work. The majority of players went either into mainly PvE, or mainly PvP, and a few enjoy both. Now we have skill unlock packs, and really I see PvE and PvP becoming more and more separate, and along the way the favour system seems more and more out of place.

I'm not saying it should be changed, but I can understand if it does get changed.

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilsys
Can't you just farm the area where Tombs used to be? Won't that drop shards and greens and such?
The fact that you think this is about farming items at all shows that you have no clue what this thread is about.

Smile Like Umean It

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
I'm sorry but is this called Guild Whiners Guru nowadays?

When I started GW the UW/FoW areas had a magical connotation since we never had favor, I had to switch to the US servers to get my first taste of it 15 months ago, the solution was simple, the EU players got better at PvP and nowadays the EU servers have favor very often.

Yes, there were EU players whining about how unfair it was back then too and they got the same answer then that the US players get now "Get better at PvP".
UW/FoW has always been decided by the outcome of PvP battle and I dont see any reason why that should now change all of a sudden.
Just because someone gets favor more often does not necessarily mean they're better at PVP. You can get favor through sheer force of numbers (as someone has posted) without having to be that great of a PVP team.

Everyone who is against the system changing keeps saying "Go PVP." "Get better at PVP", but you fail to adequately answer the question Why? Why does a PVE person have to go put in hours upon hours of getting teams and learning to play in PVP, before even getting HA, so that they may have a chance at an area that is glaringly obvious to be meant for PVE?

Yes, the system is working as intended, but that still doesn't make it right.

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

I started the following thread when PvP only pack became availeble and got shot down for it.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10065979

bigwig

bigwig

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Nova Scotia

#Dismantle

I wonder how many threads exactly like this were started by europeans when they never had favour?

manaleak34

manaleak34

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Onslaught of Xen

E/Mo

Just be glad you aren't in Taiwan or Korea

They almost NEVER get favor.

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Quote:
Originally Posted by manaleak34
Just be glad you aren't in Taiwan or Korea

They almost NEVER get favor.
Or instead of "just being glad", we could try to see if there is any chance the system could get changed, so that everyone has a truly fair shot?

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth`
It's really quite simple. The game was designed to be PvE and PvP, you play both. You play through PvE to unlock stuff for your character, and then move on to PvP, because once you've finished the PvE campaign, that's it, you've finished it. The only thing left to do is get stuff that looks different, but with the same stats.

The trouble is 80% of the Guild Wars population didn't see this, and once they finished the campaign, they did one of two things: played it again with a different character, or they farmed. Farmed for what? Prestige items. Or in some cases, nothing. They farmed for recreation. Farming WAS the game for them. And PvP never crossed their minds.
Yes I agree this was the setup of the game when they released it but I honestly can't believe that the 80% you talk about didn't see this. I think most players tried PVP out at some point but like me get bored with it pretty fast or just don't like it or don't want to experience the stress. I'm not against PVP? I even like it there is a PVP community, the more the marrier, so more people play this game.

So I'll put it this way: The fact they thought that the PVE player base would simply switch to PVP play is a contradiction that goes beyond me.

Kali Magdalene

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Washington

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwig
I wonder how many threads exactly like this were started by europeans when they never had favour?
According to this thread, they were started on a daily basis.

Vandal2k6

Vandal2k6

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Manchester, UK

The Manchester Marauders

W/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
I'm sorry but is this called Guild Whiners Guru nowadays?

When I started GW the UW/FoW areas had a magical connotation since we never had favor, I had to switch to the US servers to get my first taste of it 15 months ago, the solution was simple, the EU players got better at PvP and nowadays the EU servers have favor very often.

Yes, there were EU players whining about how unfair it was back then too and they got the same answer then that the US players get now "Get better at PvP".
UW/FoW has always been decided by the outcome of PvP battle and I dont see any reason why that should now change all of a sudden.
I'm on the side of those that think the favour system is unfair but yet I'm on Euro servers and can gain access pretty much when I want. It still doesn't change the situation and the "I'm alright Jack" attitude doesn't help anyone. You'd be hoping for a change if it was the other way 'round and even more so if you are Korean/Japanese etc (BTW, I think the reason we don't hear from them much is purely because of the language thing. I can near guarentee they feel the same). It's not all about the Americans being treated unfairly, it's about everyone in the long run.

Sakashi

Sakashi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

United Kingdom

[VII] The Midgar Zolem

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetris L
KurtTheBehemoth: In the early days of GW it was America that dominated the HoH, and Europe had favor much less often, let alone Korea. I didn't see Americans demand that the system shall be changed back then, did I!? But when the system turns into a disadvantage suddenly they cry for a "fairer" system. Double standards, anyone?
QFT.
Why should it change just for America when Europe once hardly had favour and most of the response we got was "get better hoh/tombs." Even Anet told us "the system is working as intended."


Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
for all saying: "just get better"

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php
Global Statistics
America 270 Guilds 27.0%
Taiwan 5 Guilds 0.5%
Europe 632 Guilds 63.2%
Japan 74 Guilds 7.4%
Korea 19 Guilds 1.9%


The favor system favors the area with most pvp players.
In summer 2005 most guilds were on the American server (many Euro guilds played there also). When the first tournament was announced, the exodus of guilds to the European server started and the favor shifted with it.
Now Europe has the majority of guilds interested in pvp.

If the Guild Wars population is anything like the Guild Ladder, Guild Wars has become a very European populated game. Whereas before it was probably filled with a lot more American players. Although this is just speculation, id love to see some real figures from Anet. That's my explanation on the favour shifts. I doubt our skill alone is the main reason for holding ha so regular.

julien

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

At Guild wars

Mo/

The Favor System Is Great, If You're not happy. at 23:00-24:00[...] America have favor.

beltran13579

beltran13579

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/E

it should be like if ur country has the favor you can go into FoW and if u dont u can go into UW

Jade_Onyx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Montreal

TSK

No, that would just mean that Europeans would start complainning again that they can't get into UW.
And to Julien, not everyone can be up at 2-3am eastern (thats when we normally get favour, guess thats when you all are sleeping/eating breakfast?). Would I like to go there more often, sure, but I was happy back when we held favour and they never did (I remember us saying "oh, looks like europe is trying to get favour, nvm, guess america was playing with them again", and now its more like "So, is europe in a forgiving mood? Nope, guess not"). System is working like it should, but I wouldn't be against them adding a feature where you had to, ahem, bribe the gods to go there when you didn't have favour (when you do it would be free of course). Meh, just their time I guess. Need to find another game to get them hooked on so they stop playing...

Sable Phoenix

Sable Phoenix

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

FOW/UW access needs to be unlinked from Favor.

End of discussion.

Narutoscryed

Narutoscryed

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

In the woods

Elite Crew

W/E

i really would not worry bout uw or fow at this time.. as you can all see the drops in both have degraded so badly they are not worth the time.

even pre nerf the rare occasion of an ecto or two in a run did not justify going down to uw. and groups that can actually clear the entire of it are few and far between..

europe can have favor.. i got my use outa uw and fow a long time ago. its a playground for worthless rares and crap non max common items that hardly are worth selling to the merchant..

now with the aggro update the concept of fun in uw is all but extinct aswell... the tedious nature of the aggro makes runs faster if you just pull small.. so there really is no challenge at all..

so whether it be fun or riches.. there really is no reason to go down to uw or fow.... its all not worth the hassle.

so please dont argue about it.. europe and america have been two dominant forces for some time in hoh. i remember when i could set a clock by the favor system..

europe is now dominant because they pvp more than we do.. and i would bet that even though they have favor all the time they go to uw about as much as we do.. because they know the painfull truth aswell.... uw is not worth it.

but they love pvp so good for them

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

The theory of the favour system is great but the practice didn't turn out so well. As a premium (ab)user of the UW and FoW facilities, I think it should be detached from PvP... and I'm European.

Saying that though, its only fair to offer a new means of entering UW and FoW as full-access by all is a bit dull. Maybe it should be account/character based.

xyke

xyke

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

12121

And then and then and [Then]

Mo/E

it should NOT change.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

The Favor system was a terrible, imbalanced, ill-thought-out program at its inception. Now it is even worse. It needs to be changed to a more logical system or done away with in its entirety.

Quote:
it should NOT change.
Oh look, some one from Europe offering no reason for his statement that it should stay the same. Didn't see that coming. not.

Narutoscryed

Narutoscryed

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

In the woods

Elite Crew

W/E

While i respect alot of the folks here posting that the favor system should be changed.. i have to disagree..

the favor system is not broken.. everyone gets a fair shot at having favor.. even korea..

the reason europe has it all the time is that they are better than us at pvp... thats not an inballence its the fact that we need to work harder at pvp...


i for one dont care much about it.. but if i did i would not want a ballence change.. i would start working my butt of to get into the halls everyday.. and then i would win.. because i would work hard untill i did...

so im sorry but i cannot agree with the wanting to fix it...

Legendary Shiz

Legendary Shiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

/unsign

There ARE a lot more euro pvpers than there are Americans. Look at the guild ladder, like 60% are Euro and 25% are American with specs everywhere else.

Maybe you could just change to Euro servers if it's really bothering you that much. Or get a second account, one in Euro one in American.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moron.
"Instead of fixing the system, switch to Europe so you can have access to the UW and exasperate the problem! I'm a genius!"

Mahanaxar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Italy

Lupus Et Agnus

R/

Why change the system now? The game is 18 months old.

A year ago Europe had favor an hour a week. There was complains, sure, but Anet didn't change a thing.
And the usual answers to thread like this was like "Go win HoH" or "Stop crying".

Why should it be different now?
Deal with it, like euro players did months ago.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahanaxar
Why change the system now? The game is 18 months old.

A year ago Europe had favor an hour a week. There was complains, sure, but Anet didn't change a thing.
And the usual answers to thread like this was like "Go win HoH" or "Stop crying".

Why should it be different now?
Deal with it, like euro players did months ago.
Because it was borked then and its borked now. It needs to be changed to be fair to everyone.

lunksunkunk

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

I think Europe has like almost 2-3 times the amnt of PvPers than America. The comparison to the rest of Asian countries out there is not even comparable. The most funniest fact is that the Asian guilds actually rank among some of the highest in the whole entire ladder. Its just math, sure some poeple want it to stay static, but somethings are meant to change just like Monster AI, and just like the skills we love and dont use anymore cuz of a nerf.

Please dont come back to the argument that euro servers didnt have it long ago. Thats like saying a broken system didnt work for u, but now it does, so its "not" broken. Sereously, lets compare the amount of time in hours that Europe has it in comparison to America and Asia, and before we even compare that, how many people also in America have euro accounts now? Flame all u want in defense, but there something wrong when 80% of the time a whole continent of more than a dozen countries continuously has favor while a continent with basically 3 countries, America, or even a single country, Taiwan, Japan, Korea(N.andS. i suppose) hardly get to even see favor unless they stay up past 1am in the morning.