So good its cheating! (Limitless energy, constant damage, and fortress defense!)
sister morphyne
Someone please explain to me why ANet has to @#$% everything up?
Dark Angle
why not they can do as they wish lol
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by sister morphyne
Someone please explain to me why ANet has to @#$% everything up?
some people want things to be balanced, myself included.
buzzerman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
some people want things to be balanced, myself included.
Well, there is no such thing as "balance" in PvE anyway, so we don't care 
.
I really dislike it every time when Anet has to ruin [some] nice builds for PvE people just because PvP gourmands need to have it "balanced"
This dual-Paragon support build was mostly a PvE build, one at which finally the otherwise ridiculous skirt wearing, gay angelique shouting-their-a**-off "Paragon" class was really shining..
This build still works in PvE, it's just as not as effective as before.. Too bad.
. I really dislike it every time when Anet has to ruin [some] nice builds for PvE people just because PvP gourmands need to have it "balanced"
This dual-Paragon support build was mostly a PvE build, one at which finally the otherwise ridiculous skirt wearing, gay angelique shouting-their-a**-off "Paragon" class was really shining..
This build still works in PvE, it's just as not as effective as before.. Too bad.
Relnor
Can anyone post the template keys for these builds?
misfire200
lol yet they did nothing to searing flames pvp build, yeah makes a lot of sense messing with the paragon which was a pve build
ArianeB
Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Great build - thanks a lot.
I do not have Restore Conditions yet (I just made it to the mission, while I have been playing since just about the beginning, all of my chars that made it that far never needed to cap the skill and have since been deleted and new ones made - I hate playing prot/heal monks so never any need to cap it) and have been using mend conditions - work's pretty good too. I will cap Restore Condition tomorrow on my Dervish.
I also didn't have Song of Restoration and had already taken the quests that cause Nightfallen Garden to be where you go. I used Aria of Restoration and it worked pretty good. I finally got someone to take me to the Garden of Seborhim (if you have the Nightfallen garden just get someone who has not taken those quests as the party leader - you can enter the mission. Then just have them map out or go along with you). I can tell a difference with the Song of Restoration so it is worth getting. I have the exact same problem.
I substituted Song of Restoration with Cauterize Signet and for the Monk came up with a better build:
Aegis
Reversal of Fortune
Power Drain (interrupt #1)
Leech Signet (interrupt #2)
Orision of Healing
Heal Whisper
Healers Boon
Ressurection Chant
This build is energy friendly so the nerf bat does not break it.
The best henchies to take are Devona, Sologon, Herta, and Kihm since they all have powers that help the Heroes.
I do not have Restore Conditions yet (I just made it to the mission, while I have been playing since just about the beginning, all of my chars that made it that far never needed to cap the skill and have since been deleted and new ones made - I hate playing prot/heal monks so never any need to cap it) and have been using mend conditions - work's pretty good too. I will cap Restore Condition tomorrow on my Dervish.
I also didn't have Song of Restoration and had already taken the quests that cause Nightfallen Garden to be where you go. I used Aria of Restoration and it worked pretty good. I finally got someone to take me to the Garden of Seborhim (if you have the Nightfallen garden just get someone who has not taken those quests as the party leader - you can enter the mission. Then just have them map out or go along with you). I can tell a difference with the Song of Restoration so it is worth getting. I have the exact same problem.
I substituted Song of Restoration with Cauterize Signet and for the Monk came up with a better build:
Aegis
Reversal of Fortune
Power Drain (interrupt #1)
Leech Signet (interrupt #2)
Orision of Healing
Heal Whisper
Healers Boon
Ressurection Chant
This build is energy friendly so the nerf bat does not break it.
The best henchies to take are Devona, Sologon, Herta, and Kihm since they all have powers that help the Heroes.
bsumlin
- Scenario 1 -
Setting: an opulent room high atop a lone tower at Anet headquarters.
A fat, southern gentelman in a white suit with a monacle and cigar sits in front of a glowing monitor displaying gwonline.net. The forum search box reads "awesome team build". The old man hmmms and haaaas and harumphs as he says "well, we certainly can't have THAT." In his left hand is a list of skills to be nerfed, written in elegant, flowing script. He signs the list, gets up from his chair and walks over to a metal pipe running from cieling to floor. Opening a concealed door, he puts his list inside the tube, closes the door, and presses a button. A slight thump, and he takes a long pull from his cigar. He is satisfied.
- Scenario 2 -
Setting: Anet development headquarters, on a Sunday.
Two of the game's programmers are enjoying a hero battle on Anet's closed testing server. After a crippling, humiliating defeat, One says, "holy hell that was stupid. How'd you beat me so fast?" Two says "oh it's this build I found on the forums. I think Lordhelmos wrote it. Man, it's amazing what the community can do with the tools we give them, isn't it?" One says "haha yeah, it's pretty neat, they're really smart at synergizing!" Two gets up to leave for the day when One says "hey I'll catch up with you, I'm gonna check my email." After he is alone, he sets down to nerf the hell out of the build he lost to.
- Scenario 3 -
Setting: some broken alley behind an inner-city 7-11.
A bunch of anet developers are sitting around, super stoned. Many are also drunk. One says "oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man...know what would make everyone hate us? Let's find the best build on the forums and totally NERF THE HELL OUT OF IT!!! OH MAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!"
Has anyone found a way around the recent changes? I tried Djinn farming (which has always been easy with this build) and got horribly murdered. I might try that OOTV setup...
Setting: an opulent room high atop a lone tower at Anet headquarters.
A fat, southern gentelman in a white suit with a monacle and cigar sits in front of a glowing monitor displaying gwonline.net. The forum search box reads "awesome team build". The old man hmmms and haaaas and harumphs as he says "well, we certainly can't have THAT." In his left hand is a list of skills to be nerfed, written in elegant, flowing script. He signs the list, gets up from his chair and walks over to a metal pipe running from cieling to floor. Opening a concealed door, he puts his list inside the tube, closes the door, and presses a button. A slight thump, and he takes a long pull from his cigar. He is satisfied.
- Scenario 2 -
Setting: Anet development headquarters, on a Sunday.
Two of the game's programmers are enjoying a hero battle on Anet's closed testing server. After a crippling, humiliating defeat, One says, "holy hell that was stupid. How'd you beat me so fast?" Two says "oh it's this build I found on the forums. I think Lordhelmos wrote it. Man, it's amazing what the community can do with the tools we give them, isn't it?" One says "haha yeah, it's pretty neat, they're really smart at synergizing!" Two gets up to leave for the day when One says "hey I'll catch up with you, I'm gonna check my email." After he is alone, he sets down to nerf the hell out of the build he lost to.
- Scenario 3 -
Setting: some broken alley behind an inner-city 7-11.
A bunch of anet developers are sitting around, super stoned. Many are also drunk. One says "oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man...know what would make everyone hate us? Let's find the best build on the forums and totally NERF THE HELL OUT OF IT!!! OH MAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!"
Has anyone found a way around the recent changes? I tried Djinn farming (which has always been easy with this build) and got horribly murdered. I might try that OOTV setup...
Santra
I ended up changing the paragon to this build here http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:P/W_Party_Support
With this party support paragon + the RC Prot Tahlkora/Dunkoro + Kihm, I've found the team is pretty survivable in PvE. Let's me pick 3 henchies (normally I take the Blood and Illusion henchies with Mhenlo for some extra healing just in case I do a bad pull), and one more hero spot that is open for me to pick and choose.
For the 3rd hero slot, I pick what I find useful. I've used the Koss build posted earlier for some steady damage. This Souseke build for interrupts. This searing flames build for added damage. Or the necro MM build.
Main problem I've been having is damage. It's got plenty of protection, but damage output is a bit lacking. I'm making up for it by playing a spirit bombing Rit for the armor ignoring damage, but it could be better.
With this party support paragon + the RC Prot Tahlkora/Dunkoro + Kihm, I've found the team is pretty survivable in PvE. Let's me pick 3 henchies (normally I take the Blood and Illusion henchies with Mhenlo for some extra healing just in case I do a bad pull), and one more hero spot that is open for me to pick and choose.
For the 3rd hero slot, I pick what I find useful. I've used the Koss build posted earlier for some steady damage. This Souseke build for interrupts. This searing flames build for added damage. Or the necro MM build.
Main problem I've been having is damage. It's got plenty of protection, but damage output is a bit lacking. I'm making up for it by playing a spirit bombing Rit for the armor ignoring damage, but it could be better.
Checka
Para Holding WAS imbalanced. Nothing to say. You just are not able with any skills ingame to get them off altar. Vocal Minority and well of silence only helps against the 2 paras but what about the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin wards and the monks with unlimited energy because of the paras? i think it was imba so they fixed it, nothing more to say. If u played against a dual Parabuild u will have to fight about 20 minutes and more to win or u just /roll it... very nice.
or whats the reason why [hex] hold halls about 30 times in a row? because u are unable to kick their asses if u dont gank them with 2 teams.
or whats the reason why [hex] hold halls about 30 times in a row? because u are unable to kick their asses if u dont gank them with 2 teams.
Cold
Only one problem here, ranger hero won't use barrage if she can use other skills. And don't ever give her Throw Dirt 
Some elites are just ignored by heros. "Shove" is the one that Koss doesn't want to use at all...
Some elites are just ignored by heros. "Shove" is the one that Koss doesn't want to use at all...
Cygnus_Zero
After some time I was able to get things set up right with this hero build and was able to finish some difficult quests. Although I could not finish I believe it was A History of Violence. It's the one where you have to beat 3 different bosses. The quest was pretty long. I just could not handle the massive amount of lvl 28 enemies at the end. The henchies were getting wiped out constantly throughout the entire quest. The hero's held up better, but they died pretty often too. So although this hero build is good, it's definitely not as strong as it used to be.
I did find though that I was having more luck swapping out Jin for Olias. His minions do help to distract and absorb some of the damage, and that could mean the difference between success and failure. I was finding Jin to be dying too often. With that short bow, she just runs right into battle like a tank and receive the brunt of the initial damage. So I just got rid of her. She wasnt helping much. All around I find Olias to be much more of a huge help.
I even used himt o help me cap Feast of Corruption which is one of the toughest skills in the game to cap. I originally tried this with Jin and didnt make it out of snake dance.
I did find though that I was having more luck swapping out Jin for Olias. His minions do help to distract and absorb some of the damage, and that could mean the difference between success and failure. I was finding Jin to be dying too often. With that short bow, she just runs right into battle like a tank and receive the brunt of the initial damage. So I just got rid of her. She wasnt helping much. All around I find Olias to be much more of a huge help.
I even used himt o help me cap Feast of Corruption which is one of the toughest skills in the game to cap. I originally tried this with Jin and didnt make it out of snake dance.
sister morphyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
some people want things to be balanced, myself included.
translation:
someone kicked the crap out of my mediocre twat build with a really well thought out, creative build.
Because I lack the imagination to come up with anything remotely creative, I therefore welcome the reduction to the lowest common denominator.
Would you say that was accurate?
someone kicked the crap out of my mediocre twat build with a really well thought out, creative build.
Because I lack the imagination to come up with anything remotely creative, I therefore welcome the reduction to the lowest common denominator.
Would you say that was accurate?
jesh
sister morphyne, the title says it all. Please elaborate on how unlimited energy with non elite skills is balanced, if you would.
If Arena Net wanted that, they would have buffed Mantra of Recall instead of nerfing it.
Quoting Thom Bangalter on a nuetral post and turning it into a personal attack is just a little uncalled for. Well thought out? Please, you didn't invent using paragons any more than Al Gore did.
If Arena Net wanted that, they would have buffed Mantra of Recall instead of nerfing it.
Quoting Thom Bangalter on a nuetral post and turning it into a personal attack is just a little uncalled for. Well thought out? Please, you didn't invent using paragons any more than Al Gore did.
sister morphyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesh
sister morphyne, the title says it all. Please elaborate on how unlimited energy with non elite skills is balanced, if you would.
If Arena Net wanted that, they would have buffed Mantra of Recall instead of nerfing it.
Quoting Thom Bangalter on a nuetral post and turning it into a personal attack is just a little uncalled for. Well thought out? Please, you didn't invent using paragons any more than Al Gore did. When I call you Sunday's River Mud Prawn with delusions of consciousness, that's a personal attack.
Soooooo, the spider on your little white-washed wall is unlimited energy huh?
Well, my ranger spams expensive skills, Brutal and Penetrating, and keeps up an "unlimited energy" supply from Ferocious Strike. So what can I now expect from the ANet Toad? They going to double the recharge on Ferocious? Half the bonus on expertise?
My warrior does even worse than that. She totally circumnavigates the entire energy issue by using "For Great Justice!". She uses that, hamstrings the opponent so it cannot run away (another moronic ANet offering), uses Flail when it's ready, then quite literally spam Galraths and Dragon Slash to great effect. The only time energy comes into play for her is to occasionaly fire up shield stance to cover for healing signet and to turn on "For Great Justice!" when it has cooled down. What nerf can we expect for this unforgivable behaviour in your world
Intelligent energy management and creativity does not deserve to be penalised. In this particular strata of ANet, creativity=punishment (and I draw a clear distinction between the wonderfully creative programmers and artists who give us this terrific, addictive game, and the Ellsworth Toohey like, no-value-added parasites, who try and take the fun away)
P.S.
Oops, before I forget, let me share the greatest of my perversions with you which will no doubt have the cookie-cutters and the simpering sycophants howling for my blood, I use a pet with Ferocious on my monk (gasp). She doen't do the more exotic condition and hex removals, but the bread-and-butter keep-them-on-their-feet healing flows without a hitch because of the notorious "unlimited energy" supply.
If Arena Net wanted that, they would have buffed Mantra of Recall instead of nerfing it.
Quoting Thom Bangalter on a nuetral post and turning it into a personal attack is just a little uncalled for. Well thought out? Please, you didn't invent using paragons any more than Al Gore did. When I call you Sunday's River Mud Prawn with delusions of consciousness, that's a personal attack.
Soooooo, the spider on your little white-washed wall is unlimited energy huh?
Well, my ranger spams expensive skills, Brutal and Penetrating, and keeps up an "unlimited energy" supply from Ferocious Strike. So what can I now expect from the ANet Toad? They going to double the recharge on Ferocious? Half the bonus on expertise?
My warrior does even worse than that. She totally circumnavigates the entire energy issue by using "For Great Justice!". She uses that, hamstrings the opponent so it cannot run away (another moronic ANet offering), uses Flail when it's ready, then quite literally spam Galraths and Dragon Slash to great effect. The only time energy comes into play for her is to occasionaly fire up shield stance to cover for healing signet and to turn on "For Great Justice!" when it has cooled down. What nerf can we expect for this unforgivable behaviour in your world
Intelligent energy management and creativity does not deserve to be penalised. In this particular strata of ANet, creativity=punishment (and I draw a clear distinction between the wonderfully creative programmers and artists who give us this terrific, addictive game, and the Ellsworth Toohey like, no-value-added parasites, who try and take the fun away)
P.S.
Oops, before I forget, let me share the greatest of my perversions with you which will no doubt have the cookie-cutters and the simpering sycophants howling for my blood, I use a pet with Ferocious on my monk (gasp). She doen't do the more exotic condition and hex removals, but the bread-and-butter keep-them-on-their-feet healing flows without a hitch because of the notorious "unlimited energy" supply.
Taala
Quote:
Originally Posted by sister morphyne
Well, my ranger spams expensive skills, Brutal and Penetrating, and keeps up an "unlimited energy" supply from Ferocious Strike.
Didn't happen to notice jesh mentioning "unlimited energy with non elite skills"?
sister morphyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taala
Didn't happen to notice jesh mentioning "unlimited energy with non elite skills"?
Sue me.
(nits are in danger of becoming extinct with all this picking)
(nits are in danger of becoming extinct with all this picking)
jesh
Of course rangers have expertise. Paragons, in their previous state, could give unlimited energy to allies, not just themselves. That's why it was changed.
It really bothers me how you think that people are actually changing the game so that you have less fun. Guess what? Arena Net could care less about what you think is fun. They keep things balanced, because that's what keeps the GAME fun.
No one said anything about creativity. If anything, this is one of the least creative team builds - simply because P/Ws were rampant for just this purpose - before the skill balancing.
It really bothers me how you think that people are actually changing the game so that you have less fun. Guess what? Arena Net could care less about what you think is fun. They keep things balanced, because that's what keeps the GAME fun.
No one said anything about creativity. If anything, this is one of the least creative team builds - simply because P/Ws were rampant for just this purpose - before the skill balancing.
Muk Utep
I can't get Magrid to use barrage reliably. She'll use the skill once in a while, every 5-10 seconds or so, which is not incredibly effective. What to do?
jesh
Make sure she's set to attack mode. If she already is, you can also open up her bar and just hit barrage over and over, while you use keys to activate your skills.
My Sweet Revenga
The thing about the henchies and barrage that I found, they only use it when there's a crowd around the target. If it's a lone target, they never use it even though they "could" spam it and get an extra bit of damage out of the shot. But I found that anytime they were shooting into a crowd, they would use barrage so it does work. But they just don't spam it like a lot of barrager players do.
Keithark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
some people want things to be balanced, myself included.
How is something unbalanced or unfair if everyone can use it???? The build was great, made the hardest missions easy for those who are not 3-4 hour or more a day players. If you didn't like it to be that easy then don't use the build..that way EVERYONE is happy. Since anyone could use it or not use it why did it need nerfed? For pvp? thought the object of pvp was to see who was more skilled? if that is in fact the case and this build was better than any other, everyone could use this build and see who wins, that makes it even more based on skill than the way it is after the nerf doesn't it? And if they hadn't nerfed the build there would be LOTS less people who have vowed never to go to DoA again because you might actually be able to beat it in less than 10-15 hours. Also there will be people who say "I shouldn't have to use this one build for pvp I like to change things up" Well.....that is just plain stupid!!!!! Have you done much pvp lately everyone does use the same build because there wil always be one build that is ever so slightly better than others so it will be used by all serious pvp teams. I have done very limited pvp but every team I play uses the same build except the noob teams and they get wiped in seconds. So using this build all the time instead of the one they are currently using would be no change at all
Shadow_7
This build still works, not as good as before but still pretty good. I went for gate of madness after the nerf just before winterfest started and guess what? I got masters!!! Now I'll be going for Abaddons after winterfest is over.
ferry
i was wondering since the para hase 0 tact whats the point of taking whatch your self it only last 5 secs and gives only 5+ armor furthermore thes build seem ot bee very nice good job
Muk Utep
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferry
i was wondering since the para hase 0 tact whats the point of taking whatch your self it only last 5 secs and gives only 5+ armor furthermore thes build seem ot bee very nice good job
It's free energy for yourself through Leadership, and free energy for whoever you use Energizing Finale on.
It's free energy for yourself through Leadership, and free energy for whoever you use Energizing Finale on.
Amy Awien
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesh
... They (ANet) keep things balanced, because that's what keeps the GAME fun.
That must be why, out of 90 possible combinations, you see mostly Mo/A, W/A, Me/Mo and E/Mo in GvG.
Slirith
was curious if i could switch out the R/P for a melee char like meloni as a D/P seeing as Morghan is usually near me in melee and margid is way out there. meloni would have the same paragon skills but i just cant decide on what derv skills to use that would complement the build >.> soon as i get morghan on my derv and try this out, i'll let you guys know how it went.
wilebill
Tried this with my Paragon's heroes, and with me running Focused Anger and spamming GFtE along with everyone else, Morgahn and Jin simply rocked. Carried Olias MM along instead of the protection monk, and just hired hench, still worked fine. Excellent builds. Thanks everyone!
Perkunas
Now I understand why I have such a hard time getting parties together, "everyone" is running around with 4 man fortresses. Alas, guess I put a tank of gas on hold and buy NF. LoL
Vince_Jadefrost
does this build still work even with the new patch?
strcpy
Yes, though with each one it becomes less fortress like.
It is sorta a medium fence with some trees like now - but that keeps most things out. You just can not aggro everything on the planet and spam skills with no thought whatsoever. I still find it one of the better hero team builds out there as far as a holding build goes.
It is sorta a medium fence with some trees like now - but that keeps most things out. You just can not aggro everything on the planet and spam skills with no thought whatsoever. I still find it one of the better hero team builds out there as far as a holding build goes.
lakatz
Still works great and it's pretty much idiot proof. I just got Masters in Ruins of Morah w/ it... and I accidentally aggroed a group of monsters I didn't really have to deal w/ trying to pull Varesh.
Tha Dukk
all I'd like to know is which rez to replace rez chant with, as I dont have factions... =(
EDIT:btw Anet might not have nerfed the build if it haddn't been posted lol I'm sure they read this thread.
EDIT:btw Anet might not have nerfed the build if it haddn't been posted lol I'm sure they read this thread.
lakatz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidra
I have a question. Which henchmen are people using to do Gates? >.> I can't seem to find a good combination after 3 tries of getting raped by Shiro.
When I took my ranger char through Gate of Madness with LordHelmos' original hero build, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't die, but I couldn't kill Shiro either. I pounded on him forever until I finally gave up. On the second try, I came back using the Jin/Margrid build myself with Morgahn, Tahlkora and Master of Whispers set up as SS nuker, and Shiro went down fast. I like SS better with this build because SV relies on low health and health just does not drop with this build.
Angel Netherborn
Lol, I think there's some ego problems going if some of you start thinking that Anet nerfed paragons because of this team build....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Vince_Jadefrost does this build still work even with the new patch? Yes it does. Which you would have found out if you'd just read a few posts before yours or just try it out.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tha Dukk
all I'd like to know is which rez to replace rez chant with, as I dont have factions... =(
I think Resurrect will work fine, or even Rebirth.
strcpy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Netherborn
Lol, I think there's some ego problems going if some of you start thinking that Anet nerfed paragons because of this team build....
A very very similar PvP holding build was the reason for the first round of nerfage. It is probably "ego" if Lordhelmos is taking the claim for the sole inventor and such (I haven't seen that at all), but pretty much this build *was* the reason for a skill balance during a ladder season (something Anet has never done before and said they never would - the build was that much of a fortress).
Lordhelmos
I actually modeled the build after the PVP paragon holdway match in which a SoR paragon team held the altar for like 9-10 consecutive games. So I wont take credit for the roots of it.
It's been awhile since I posted. Unfortunately this forum is the one most frequently visited by developers of the game, so im out of luck as far as trying other places for info on the game.
daraaksii
The paragon is broken. Morgahn won't use Flail only if you click on it.
Crankyprof
Quote:
Originally Posted by daraaksii
The paragon is broken. Morgahn won't use Flail only if you click on it.
Agreed - I was watching Morgahn last nite and he didn't use Flail once. I tried Flurry to ... still no go. I replaced it with Aggressive Refrain (a little slower ... only 25% IAS) but once it's cast, it tends to stay up for most of the fight. He used it perfectly.
As a side note, I used this team to complete Prophecies (Protector of Tyria) and Factions with my Beast Master and Nightfall with my Dervish with hench. I got masters on all the Elona missions. This was after the paragon nerf, so IMHO this is still an awesome build.
cyberjanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordhelmos
After I created this build, I used gate of madness as the litmus test to find out how much punishment it could really take.
You've convinced me.
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