So good its cheating! (Limitless energy, constant damage, and fortress defense!)

icymanipulator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

08 Mar 2007 at 19:39 - 121

I have also tested this out and I can join the ranks of people saying...yes it does work amazingly well under normal circumstances and some area effects. I was really hoping this build would make "the troubled keeper" henchable/heroable but it doesnt seem to. On the plus side it will completely trash anything else you throw at it even with the rebalance anet decided to rain down on us.

I will warn you though, and it should be obvious...if you try this build in the Domain of Pain it will completely trash your party. All that spamming does have a drawback when you are taking 20 damage per activation from Dreadful Pain.

Edit: I also ran this through the Domain of Secrets for a shot at some easier LB farming. The Veiled Nightmare effect dramatically slows down the build because of the +40% energy cost added to everything. With patience though it will definetly steamroll the area!

centur

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Russia, Moscow

Greener Pastures [DVDF]

09 Mar 2007 at 11:27 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Measures

I gave Jin Urgoz flatbow, which is as close as you can get to what you posted.. It has everything, 20/20 +15%dmg, +30hp.... its just not a long bow, rather a flat bow.. flatbow is acutaly have range of longbow and refire rate of shortbow. but very high arc to compensate that buffs - so its isnt good choose for any ranger imo (except you running RtW+FW, but in that case you cant use barrage - B strips preparations)

shaderaven

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

BRG

10 Mar 2007 at 10:43 - 123

How is Margrid Energy management with the 15p nonexpertisable stand your ground? Wouldn't Zealous Bow be better (so she doesn't steal energising finale from Morgahn)? If its ok, then Vampiric will be better idea instead of sundering in my opinion... or I'm wrong?

Morgahn has one spare attribute point left. Put it in tactics. It doesn't increase WY duration, but gives it +1 armor more:P~ And give the old man furious spear if you come across one.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

10 Mar 2007 at 20:27 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by centur

flatbow is acutaly have range of longbow and refire rate of shortbow. but very high arc to compensate that buffs - so its isnt good choose for any ranger imo (except you running RtW+FW, but in that case you cant use barrage - B strips preparations) Favorable winds is a nature ritual and thus not 'stripped'. Flatbows are fine for most PvE work, there's not a lot of dodging from critters, only for interrupts are recurve's a better choice, imo.

centur

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Russia, Moscow

Greener Pastures [DVDF]

11 Mar 2007 at 16:41 - 125

Actually I just pointed that flatbows have same range as longbows so shouts from Magrid wont be so efficient as with shortbow =)

as for me - FW isnt enougth to lower arc of flatbow - still dodges and strays - if you want to running good flat - u should run Read the winds either - and barrage will strip it

CHapTwo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

EHOD

N/E

12 Mar 2007 at 23:20 - 126

Thank you very much for this excellent build.
It works very good for me.
If have got one Problem: I have got only nightfall.
What skills can I use instead of the non-nightfall sklills? (especially for the monk)

CHapTWo

]SK[

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Nottingham, UK

13 Mar 2007 at 06:52 - 127

Invest in the first chapter as it beats every other hands down.

CHapTwo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

EHOD

N/E

13 Mar 2007 at 12:39 - 128

Thank you, but I will finish nighfall first.
So what can I do till then?

CHapTwo

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Mar 2007 at 18:45 - 129

You mean Restore Conditions? Mhh, hard to replace ... Dismiss Condition or Mending Touch, maybe in concert with Martyr ... or Draw and Purge.

If Revealed/Inspired Hex are non-Nightfall, Holy Veil can take it's place (might be better anyway?).

Rez Chant ... make your pick. Personally ... I'd rather not give rez to my monk heroes, but there aren't many /Mo in this build.

It's easier if you list the skills that you do not have access to.

CHapTwo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

EHOD

N/E

14 Mar 2007 at 02:22 - 130

I don´t have acces to Inspired/Revealed Hex
Channeling and Flurry.
I changed restore contiotions to ZB.

CHapTwo

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

04 Jun 2007 at 02:23 - 131

Um... yeah... Used Margrid Tahl and Morgahn exactly as you said. Tasca's Demise on hard mode. Because I'm the tank, and not Margrid, I took her off attack and put her on guard so that... you know... my party isn't wiped but someone who is NOT the designated puller. Besides me, everyone sat huddled in a little area and attacked long range while I pulled the first Dwarven group around a rock. At the end, my heroes each had less than ten energy. Tahl still died twice. Note: This is the BEGINNING group right outside Granite. Third group [after the trio of melee dwarves] = party wipe. Came back, waited for minions to die, then killed them after Tahl reached 60%. No one else died, I think. Went to that HUGE dwarven group, somehow lured three rangers, killed them. After that I lured two dolyaks, three herders, and a ranger. Guess what! PARTY WIPE

Monk of Myrodin

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

Mo/

05 Jun 2007 at 12:43 - 132

You probably will not beleive this and if you don't well whatever. I went to help an alliance member with the Vizunah Square mission because they kept losing with PUGs. If you do not know what mission this is, it is the one where you start off with 2 teams of 8, one team accompanies Togo and the other accompanies Mhenlo. There are 4 large battles within the mission. No offense but I ussually prefer heroes and henchman over real players because I find that a lot of players are incompetent, or just will not follow directions. Our team makeup was me on my Dual Attunment E/D, a player W/Mo(level 15), and another Alliance member with a MM, then I took this combination of heroes that I saw in this post of a ranger(Margrid), a paragon(Morgan) and a monk(Talkora) then filled out the party with a mesmer and monk henchman.

The whole other team (the one accompanying Mhenlo) was all human players, and after they got Mhenlo to us they noticed that we only had 3 real people. They made some comments and then said there is no way we could beat it with that many henchman then they all resigned. Well if you don't know me I always like a challenge, so I told my team don't worry about it we can still win this mission without them and we continued with just the 8 of us plus Togo and Mhenlo. It got rather interesting at times, but only 2 people died in the mission. In the end we got expert's reward being about 4 minutes over the masters time.

I say all this to say, that I have been on PUGs that couldn't even get past the first battle and it just amazed me that 3 players and 5 henchies could do it. But then again, the henchies always listen and so did the other players this time. This also goes to say that if you can do this one with half the normal amount of players with henchies, you can do any of the missions with the normal 8. This was on NM btw, but I just wanted to say thanks for the build, oh and I did not have any runes on the heroes nor max weapons.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

05 Jun 2007 at 23:48 - 133

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk of Myrodin
You probably will not beleive this and if you don't well whatever. I went to help an alliance member with the Vizunah Square mission because they kept losing with PUGs. If you do not know what mission this is, it is the one where you start off with 2 teams of 8, one team accompanies Togo and the other accompanies Mhenlo. There are 4 large battles within the mission. No offense but I ussually prefer heroes and henchman over real players because I find that a lot of players are incompetent, or just will not follow directions. Our team makeup was me on my Dual Attunment E/D, a player W/Mo(level 15), and another Alliance member with a MM, then I took this combination of heroes that I saw in this post of a ranger(Margrid), a paragon(Morgan) and a monk(Talkora) then filled out the party with a mesmer and monk henchman.

The whole other team (the one accompanying Mhenlo) was all human players, and after they got Mhenlo to us they noticed that we only had 3 real people. They made some comments and then said there is no way we could beat it with that many henchman then they all resigned. Well if you don't know me I always like a challenge, so I told my team don't worry about it we can still win this mission without them and we continued with just the 8 of us plus Togo and Mhenlo. It got rather interesting at times, but only 2 people died in the mission. In the end we got expert's reward being about 4 minutes over the masters time.

I say all this to say, that I have been on PUGs that couldn't even get past the first battle and it just amazed me that 3 players and 5 henchies could do it. But then again, the henchies always listen and so did the other players this time. This also goes to say that if you can do this one with half the normal amount of players with henchies, you can do any of the missions with the normal 8. This was on NM btw, but I just wanted to say thanks for the build, oh and I did not have any runes on the heroes nor max weapons. LOL, the build prevails

shru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

06 Jun 2007 at 02:31 - 134

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
Um... yeah... Used Margrid Tahl and Morgahn exactly as you said. Tasca's Demise on hard mode. Because I'm the tank, and not Margrid, I took her off attack and put her on guard so that... you know... my party isn't wiped but someone who is NOT the designated puller. Besides me, everyone sat huddled in a little area and attacked long range while I pulled the first Dwarven group around a rock. At the end, my heroes each had less than ten energy. Tahl still died twice. Note: This is the BEGINNING group right outside Granite. Third group [after the trio of melee dwarves] = party wipe. Came back, waited for minions to die, then killed them after Tahl reached 60%. No one else died, I think. Went to that HUGE dwarven group, somehow lured three rangers, killed them. After that I lured two dolyaks, three herders, and a ranger. Guess what! PARTY WIPE Incase you haven't realized, the linchpin skills in this build have been nerfed into oblivion months ago. The build still works ok, but there is no more super e-managment and god like defence. If your looking for a "win quick and easy build" I sujest you find something else.

ShadowAlpha

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

N/Mo

06 Jun 2007 at 14:37 - 135

Quote:
Originally Posted by shru
Incase you haven't realized, the linchpin skills in this build have been nerfed into oblivion months ago. The build still works ok, but there is no more super e-managment and god like defence. If your looking for a "win quick and easy build" I sujest you find something else. i haven't had a chance to try this build myself, but who cares if the linchpin skills have been nerfed? did you ever stop and think that it might be a decent build anyways? just because a skill got "nerfed" doesn't make it a bad skill. i'm sure anet had a reason for making the nerf in the first place, most likely for balance issues.

if it works for some people, power to them for finding something that works. if not, they can go look for something that works for them.

btw, when i get a chance, i'll try this myself. we shall see.

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

06 Jun 2007 at 23:53 - 136

Well I feel dumb. I didn't even realize how old the posts were until now. @_@

havok019

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

HdCr

W/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 17:42 - 137

It's ok. This should really be a sticky. . .

Enko

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

VA

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 17:53 - 138

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowAlpha
i haven't had a chance to try this build myself, but who cares if the linchpin skills have been nerfed? did you ever stop and think that it might be a decent build anyways? just because a skill got "nerfed" doesn't make it a bad skill. i'm sure anet had a reason for making the nerf in the first place, most likely for balance issues.

if it works for some people, power to them for finding something that works. if not, they can go look for something that works for them.

btw, when i get a chance, i'll try this myself. we shall see. perhaps you should read the post he quoted first? he was responding to the guy who was complaining that he was dying when using this build and it wasn't working as the OP had stated. shru was reminding Zeek Aran why it wasn't working as stated.

Yarrick

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Serbia

We Never Sleep [ZzzZ]

08 Jun 2007 at 18:03 - 139

The build still works good in normal mode, gonna try doing some HM missions with this build, maybe tweak it a bit, dunno, we'll see

Drizdee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

Me/

09 Jun 2007 at 10:46 - 140

Decent team build, but i feel it lacks a bit of damage.

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

10 Jun 2007 at 17:50 - 141

For all the players that have trouble with gate of madness especialy shiro which i find easier to kill than to get there remember 2 skills that are very good to bring along 1.Spoil Victor,2. Wild blow(since i always have a tank for shiro)

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

10 Jun 2007 at 17:58 - 142

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakatz
When I took my ranger char through Gate of Madness with LordHelmos' original hero build, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't die, but I couldn't kill Shiro either. I pounded on him forever until I finally gave up. On the second try, I came back using the Jin/Margrid build myself with Morgahn, Tahlkora and Master of Whispers set up as SS nuker, and Shiro went down fast. I like SS better with this build because SV relies on low health and health just does not drop with this build. True but Spoil victor isnt there to actualy kil shiro its there to make him go from 6k+health to your current health realy fast

Vahrn Hart

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

19 Jun 2007 at 04:45 - 143

What skills could I subsitute in if I only own nightfall?

The skills that would need replacing are Flurry on the P/Wa build and the Elite skill and the mesmer skills on the Mo.

thanks

Sjeng oet Mestreech

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Netherlands

P/W

26 Jun 2007 at 18:33 - 144

Flail instead of flurry.

Btw, do these builds still work after all te nerfs when ik comes to defense?

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

28 Jun 2007 at 03:01 - 145

no offense, but I have found this build to be completely useless....

I'm not a noob and I know how to run my heroes. The OP says this build will own just about anywhere, and I found this to be completely not true.

First of all, heroes run out of energy very fast. There is no "constant" energy at all.

No fortress defense either - my hero/hench team gets easily steamrolled in just about every mission after the "Vortex" in NF. What's worse, I couldn't do "Garden of Seborhin" either.... Too hard and party gets wiped easily.

There's barely any decent damage, since most of it comes from Margrid who is not very good at barraging groups it seems...

Dual synergy SF Eles+Olias do a much better job, yet they still get owned in the above places.

I made no mistakes... Followed the guide exactly from runes to skills to skill points. 3 heroes, 1-2 hench monks, warrior and ele.

I'm a Ritualist with healing spirits. Been playing for a very long time so I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing. Any specifics I might be missing?

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

28 Jun 2007 at 07:49 - 146

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex333
no offense, but I have found this build to be completely useless....

I'm not a noob and I know how to run my heroes. The OP says this build will own just about anywhere, and I found this to be completely not true.

First of all, heroes run out of energy very fast. There is no "constant" energy at all.

No fortress defense either - my hero/hench team gets easily steamrolled in just about every mission after the "Vortex" in NF. What's worse, I couldn't do "Garden of Seborhin" either.... Too hard and party gets wiped easily.

There's barely any decent damage, since most of it comes from Margrid who is not very good at barraging groups it seems...

Dual synergy SF Eles+Olias do a much better job, yet they still get owned in the above places.

I made no mistakes... Followed the guide exactly from runes to skills to skill points. 3 heroes, 1-2 hench monks, warrior and ele.

I'm a Ritualist with healing spirits. Been playing for a very long time so I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing. Any specifics I might be missing? You do know that this build was posted over half a year ago when a lot of the Paragon skills and Watch Yourself were still really powerful. The build I assume would give very high +armor back in the days and provide nice energy, but skill changes have changed all that. Plus, this was back before HM too, and NM is generally really easy when using overpowered skills...

Slappywag

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

04 Jul 2007 at 14:56 - 147

I didn't think it was god mode. I still struggled with that mission (and gave up after a couple). Kept on getting stuck with multiple pulls and finally when I got to the end, Shiro and the Lich smacked me down as soon as I entered the gate (I hear you're supposed to do them last? I don't know how) =(

Uber Minotaur

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

UK

D/Mo

08 Aug 2007 at 13:37 - 148

Hi,

Sorry to bring up an old thread....does this build of heroes still work ? Or has it been nerfed to the point of being useless ?

Thanks.

havok019

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

HdCr

W/Mo

08 Aug 2007 at 17:44 - 149

Still works, just not as uber, Uber. Good place to start and then you can fine-tune it depending on how your party is doing out there.

For HM, you'll need more interrupts built in.

My Sweet Revenga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

09 Aug 2007 at 00:15 - 150

For normal mode, it still kinda works. The thing is, this build was posted almost a year ago and paragon skills have been beated bloody with the nerf bat at least twice since then so while this combo works, it's nowhere near as effective as it was back then. And wow it was a good build while it lasted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex333
no offense, but I have found this build to be completely useless....

I'm not a noob and I know how to run my heroes. The OP says this build will own just about anywhere, and I found this to be completely not true.

First of all, heroes run out of energy very fast. There is no "constant" energy at all.

No fortress defense either - my hero/hench team gets easily steamrolled in just about every mission after the "Vortex" in NF. What's worse, I couldn't do "Garden of Seborhin" either.... Too hard and party gets wiped easily.

There's barely any decent damage, since most of it comes from Margrid who is not very good at barraging groups it seems...

Dual synergy SF Eles+Olias do a much better job, yet they still get owned in the above places.

I made no mistakes... Followed the guide exactly from runes to skills to skill points. 3 heroes, 1-2 hench monks, warrior and ele.

I'm a Ritualist with healing spirits. Been playing for a very long time so I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing. Any specifics I might be missing? No offense.... but if you've been playing "for a very long time" as you claim, you would have known that between the time this build was posted (almost a year ago) and the time you posted your findings (a little over a month ago) you'd know that many of the paragon skill nerfings have rendered the power of this build combo less than advertized. It was an excellent build. Nowadays it's just so-so.

shrillex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

USA

P/W

11 Aug 2007 at 06:32 - 151

i didnt notice but is the builds still good even though they were nerfed?

pgiustino

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2007

LOD

A/

16 Aug 2007 at 14:20 - 152

Nice builds, even now.

About the ranger...
I like my ranger hero to take full advantage of criticals, using skills like disrupting winds and keen arrow.
And does barrage synergize well with gfte! (meaning many arrows critical) or is it just one arrow?

Damage reduction is the para's best utility imo. I enjoy getting into pugs and joke about how dead my companions would be without me. Just yesterday I pugged with 4 others and h/h'd the rest for the ronjok mission. Not 5 minutes in two dudes drop out. Whatever, we went on and finished with the three of us left and the only healer was a hench. Good times.

DjBlack

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Aug 2007 at 22:45 - 153

i dont understand how your hero have 9 15 9 9 att even if i put 1sup 2minior its not close ;l

T1Cybernetic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Uk, Nr Earth

Alternate Evil Gamers [aeg]

N/

01 Sep 2007 at 14:53 - 154

Could you add the template code to the first post for people, im using this setup on my ranger + heros and it's still pretty decent even now.

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

03 Sep 2007 at 17:55 - 155

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga

No offense.... but if you've been playing "for a very long time" as you claim, you would have known that between the time this build was posted (almost a year ago) and the time you posted your findings (a little over a month ago) you'd know that many of the paragon skill nerfings have rendered the power of this build combo less than advertized. So... According to you, someone who plays for a long time must know all skills and professions? That's ridiculous.
I've only been playing the warrior, rit, and monk for the most part. I know nothing at all about the paragon profession and it's skills, nor do I want to know. I don't like the NF professions, hence the lack of knowledge.

The reason why I came to this thread and posted, is because I thought: Hey.. This might be a good build that will allow me to "PWN" everything without any understanding of how it works. Yes I know this kind of thinking is not cool, but can you really blame me? I don't want to grind, devise builds, etc. It's a game and I want to have fun. If I actually wanted to think, I would! (and I do, when I feel like it.)

Yes. I admit it. I use people who have nothing better to do with their time than to sit there for hours and make builds... I don't see how that is a crime. If these people objected to people like me using them, they wouldn't share!

PS: I dont see why a mod doesnt close this damned thread. It confuses people and makes them think the build still owns.

Enko

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

VA

Mo/

05 Sep 2007 at 17:59 - 156

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex333
PS: I dont see why a mod doesnt close this damned thread. It confuses people and makes them think the build still owns. most people are intelligent enough to look at the date of the post . ..

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

11 Sep 2007 at 02:42 - 157

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
some people want things to be balanced, myself included. If it was about balance then their would be a mass nerf fest for the invincible pvp builds you see all the time as that is really the only part of the game that needs true balance.

This build was for PVE and it was not hurting anything running it except some PVE baddies and who the hell cares about them?

wolfwing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

11 Sep 2007 at 21:47 - 158

Any suggestions for the energy/health runes to stick on the hero's? Or other such useful runes.

neo the tyrant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Balamb Garden

TIGG

Me/

17 Sep 2007 at 18:29 - 159

I Found It Nice

chowmein69

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

17 Sep 2007 at 22:16 - 160

this is anice build