Searing Flames Nerf Possibility
Gimme Money Plzkthx
No, primary ele air spikers are still very much used. Eles are utility and damage, and I'm not entirely sure where this "advertising" is coming from, but I will admit that they have the air of a more damage class. That does not change the fact that they are useful at both. When I hit the mursaat area with my warrior, I was dealing like 10 damage on an average hit on a boss or something like that. It is not just elementalists that still have a problem in higher level areas. The game is advertised as PvP, with GvG being the world championship, not who can farm FoW the fastest or something. Now hang on a second, you say nukers suck in PvE compared to other characters, but you just finished ragging on me a few posts above about how I said incorrectly that other classes had efficient AoE. So which is it?
Names Schmames
Ahahahaha
Whatever, was fun while it lasted. But hey the ultimative counter was found at last, eh :
"Angry forum post" (Attribute : Command, Type : Chant, 5 Adrenaline, 5 recharge. If this skill was used on a Dev Creature it instantly recharges. Causes Dazed/Crippled/Bleeding/Nausea on all Dev Creatures for indefinite time until they use skill "Nerfbat") XD
Whatever, was fun while it lasted. But hey the ultimative counter was found at last, eh :
"Angry forum post" (Attribute : Command, Type : Chant, 5 Adrenaline, 5 recharge. If this skill was used on a Dev Creature it instantly recharges. Causes Dazed/Crippled/Bleeding/Nausea on all Dev Creatures for indefinite time until they use skill "Nerfbat") XD
Gimme Money Plzkthx
^well done, posts like this are what increase this threads productivity. A++
Francis Crawford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
Two things on the bunching up thing. One: people bunch up in pvp for three reasons: wards, being morons, and being afk. To explain why you would *all* bunch up in wards against a mostly elementalist team, see the latter two options. Two: PvPers are not complaining because we cannot beat SF, we are complaining because it is indeed overpowered. We can counter it and beat it quite easily, but we need extra skills, which in turn cause us to get omgwtfpwned by other builds when we cannot pack counters for those. In comparison to other fire ele skills, it is overpowered, thus its overusage. That is why it needs a nerf, is it far outstrips any other fire skill, or any other AoE guildwars skill for that matter.
Are you seriously suggesting that Anet should nerf an important PvE skill so as to accomodate the afk PvP community??
Xpl0iter
they can be used as MUCH as you can say they are, But Me/E are better at dmg dealing when compared to eles because of FC. Eles are USEFUl, but NOT as useful when compared to mesmer spikers if your not running exhaustions skills.
Advertising is coming from the Simple fact that ELES are advertised as DMG dealer and NOT utility based CHaracters, if you EVER need listing, ask for it.
how much dmg were you taking? How reliant were you on your energy storage? What was your job in those areas ? Have you even used a proper team to do things?
Try doing Thunderhead keep without monks, 1 Blood Orders Necro, and rest Warriors. It will work.
T0 the point where you said it is Adertised as PVP, http://guildwars.com/gameplay/
that is for you.
The game is NOT advertised ALONE as PVP. Or you wouldn't have had over 3 million players, outof which, possibly 10% or less is PVP, and rest is ALL PVE.
As far as AOE goes, let me say it ONCE More.
ELES SUCK when compared to OTHER casters in this game.
OTHER classes are NOT, and i repeat, are NOT advertised as AOE damage dealing.
Mesmers: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/mesmer/
"....Domination skills put Mesmers in command of a foe's Health and Energy, while Illusion can inflict damage, slow an enemy, and drain away the powers of those that oppose them. The Mesmer can call on Inspiration to steal Energy directly from the opposition,...."
Necromancer: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/necromancer/
Check their Attributes please?
Elementalist: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/elementalist/
Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession. (yeh right)
Air magic is driven by the power of storms and lightning, granting allies greater speed or targeting specific foes with a focused, high-damage attack. Remember, Air is SINGLE TARGEST MOSTLY and they said ATTACK
Earth magic triggers quakes and volcanoes, envelops foes in solid rock, and can add to the strength and stamina of allies (Lets consider this as More of a Defense line than any other. If you need to know why, ask away)
Fire magic is often considered the most purely destructive form, inflicting searing pain and damage on multiple enemies. (Lets remove SF from the list. Now tell me, which skill are you using or your allies or ANY ONE for that matter, is using from this fire magic line? Show me any other profession which List this quality of its attribute with such words to describe AOE dmg? Fire magic is all about MULTIPLE FOES)
WATER magic: As far as this one goes, we all know its just used for Snares.
So tell me, was i wrong in Saying that ELES were advertised as damage dealers to multiple foes and yet they are not doing that efficiently enough?
AOE available to other casters is an additional Asset for them.
AOE dmg available to Mages ( Eles ) is what they were suppose to do from the very start. Did they fullfill their role in pvp properly? i guess not. If they did, i wouldn't have seen that many flash bots, heal party, and warders arround when compared to the damage dealing types. ( Ofcourse before NF was released ) Even now, SF is just a GIMMICK build. Entire Fire line is still gimped when compared to SF. SF is the only skill that inflicts Pressure. Rest of the skills are laughable. What makes me Hate things is that, ANET actualy ADVERTISED SF build and promoted it in official website.
Ironic... Advertising a build, then nerfing it because it is used so much.... I wonder why....
Any thoughts Gimme?
Advertising is coming from the Simple fact that ELES are advertised as DMG dealer and NOT utility based CHaracters, if you EVER need listing, ask for it.
how much dmg were you taking? How reliant were you on your energy storage? What was your job in those areas ? Have you even used a proper team to do things?
Try doing Thunderhead keep without monks, 1 Blood Orders Necro, and rest Warriors. It will work.
T0 the point where you said it is Adertised as PVP, http://guildwars.com/gameplay/
that is for you.
The game is NOT advertised ALONE as PVP. Or you wouldn't have had over 3 million players, outof which, possibly 10% or less is PVP, and rest is ALL PVE.
As far as AOE goes, let me say it ONCE More.
ELES SUCK when compared to OTHER casters in this game.
OTHER classes are NOT, and i repeat, are NOT advertised as AOE damage dealing.
Mesmers: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/mesmer/
"....Domination skills put Mesmers in command of a foe's Health and Energy, while Illusion can inflict damage, slow an enemy, and drain away the powers of those that oppose them. The Mesmer can call on Inspiration to steal Energy directly from the opposition,...."
Necromancer: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/necromancer/
Check their Attributes please?
Elementalist: http://guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/elementalist/
Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession. (yeh right)
Air magic is driven by the power of storms and lightning, granting allies greater speed or targeting specific foes with a focused, high-damage attack. Remember, Air is SINGLE TARGEST MOSTLY and they said ATTACK
Earth magic triggers quakes and volcanoes, envelops foes in solid rock, and can add to the strength and stamina of allies (Lets consider this as More of a Defense line than any other. If you need to know why, ask away)
Fire magic is often considered the most purely destructive form, inflicting searing pain and damage on multiple enemies. (Lets remove SF from the list. Now tell me, which skill are you using or your allies or ANY ONE for that matter, is using from this fire magic line? Show me any other profession which List this quality of its attribute with such words to describe AOE dmg? Fire magic is all about MULTIPLE FOES)
WATER magic: As far as this one goes, we all know its just used for Snares.
So tell me, was i wrong in Saying that ELES were advertised as damage dealers to multiple foes and yet they are not doing that efficiently enough?
AOE available to other casters is an additional Asset for them.
AOE dmg available to Mages ( Eles ) is what they were suppose to do from the very start. Did they fullfill their role in pvp properly? i guess not. If they did, i wouldn't have seen that many flash bots, heal party, and warders arround when compared to the damage dealing types. ( Ofcourse before NF was released ) Even now, SF is just a GIMMICK build. Entire Fire line is still gimped when compared to SF. SF is the only skill that inflicts Pressure. Rest of the skills are laughable. What makes me Hate things is that, ANET actualy ADVERTISED SF build and promoted it in official website.
Ironic... Advertising a build, then nerfing it because it is used so much.... I wonder why....
Any thoughts Gimme?
Gimme Money Plzkthx
@ francis: Are you seriously suggesting you took that part of the post seriously?
I said the game is based MOSTLY off PvP, meaning skills do need to be balanced around it. SF is also out of balance compared to other skills as a whole, specifically pertaining to the fire line. I'll say it again as you did not answer me: You say that AoE is the most efficient way of killing things, then say that other casters don't have AoE. Wouldn't this imply that elementalists have the best killing power? And again, you're wrong on the me/e thing, and that is all there is to it. They were advertised as damage dealers, my point is that they did their job fine before searing flames, and searing flames is overpowered. They found a SPECIAL role in PvP, as did many professions. They also fulfill their damage dealing role in PvP, before searing flames. You could not have said it better yourself: The entire fire line is gimped compared to SF. Generally, when that many skills are at one power, and one skill is at another, it implies that the one skill is overpowered, not that the others are underpowered. This is the case with searing flames.
I said the game is based MOSTLY off PvP, meaning skills do need to be balanced around it. SF is also out of balance compared to other skills as a whole, specifically pertaining to the fire line. I'll say it again as you did not answer me: You say that AoE is the most efficient way of killing things, then say that other casters don't have AoE. Wouldn't this imply that elementalists have the best killing power? And again, you're wrong on the me/e thing, and that is all there is to it. They were advertised as damage dealers, my point is that they did their job fine before searing flames, and searing flames is overpowered. They found a SPECIAL role in PvP, as did many professions. They also fulfill their damage dealing role in PvP, before searing flames. You could not have said it better yourself: The entire fire line is gimped compared to SF. Generally, when that many skills are at one power, and one skill is at another, it implies that the one skill is overpowered, not that the others are underpowered. This is the case with searing flames.
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
Are you seriously suggesting that Anet should nerf an important PvE skill so as to accomodate the afk PvP community??
Nah francis, he did mention before that he was being sarcastic there. ( with regards to where he mentioned AFKs )
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
@ francis: Are you seriously suggesting you took that part of the post seriously?
I said the game is based MOSTLY off PvP, meaning skills do need to be balanced around it. SF is also out of balance compared to other skills as a whole, specifically pertaining to the fire line. I'll say it again as you did not answer me: You say that AoE is the most efficient way of killing things, then say that other casters don't have AoE. Wouldn't this imply that elementalists have the best killing power? And again, you're wrong on the me/e thing, and that is all there is to it. They were advertised as damage dealers, my point is that they did their job fine before searing flames, and searing flames is overpowered. They found a SPECIAL role in PvP, as did many professions. They also fulfill their damage dealing role in PvP, before searing flames. You could not have said it better yourself: The entire fire line is gimped compared to SF. Generally, when that many skills are at one power, and one skill is at another, it implies that the one skill is overpowered, not that the others are underpowered. This is the case with searing flames.
Uh no...
Fire line is Underpowered, and SF is on PAR.
Listen gimme, why dont you actualy start proving fire line by your self by taking skills and telling me how "Effective" they are so i can see what the level of "Balance" is for you?
That would make shit alot more easier for all of us.
I said the game is based MOSTLY off PvP, meaning skills do need to be balanced around it. SF is also out of balance compared to other skills as a whole, specifically pertaining to the fire line. I'll say it again as you did not answer me: You say that AoE is the most efficient way of killing things, then say that other casters don't have AoE. Wouldn't this imply that elementalists have the best killing power? And again, you're wrong on the me/e thing, and that is all there is to it. They were advertised as damage dealers, my point is that they did their job fine before searing flames, and searing flames is overpowered. They found a SPECIAL role in PvP, as did many professions. They also fulfill their damage dealing role in PvP, before searing flames. You could not have said it better yourself: The entire fire line is gimped compared to SF. Generally, when that many skills are at one power, and one skill is at another, it implies that the one skill is overpowered, not that the others are underpowered. This is the case with searing flames.
Uh no...
Fire line is Underpowered, and SF is on PAR.
Listen gimme, why dont you actualy start proving fire line by your self by taking skills and telling me how "Effective" they are so i can see what the level of "Balance" is for you?
That would make shit alot more easier for all of us.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
I've done it numerous times. Fire kills just fine. If eles are so underpowered, why does almost every balanced PvE group known to mankind take one or more?
Xpl0iter
as for now, because of SF.
For previous, it was MS with renewal, or Echo MS. MS MS MS MS MS and Rodgorts Invocation. So what else u got for me?
As far as you "doing it numerous times" kindly list the thread where you did, i would like to see it.
I am sure that finding 1 or 2 threads shouldn't be an issue for you.
For previous, it was MS with renewal, or Echo MS. MS MS MS MS MS and Rodgorts Invocation. So what else u got for me?
As far as you "doing it numerous times" kindly list the thread where you did, i would like to see it.
I am sure that finding 1 or 2 threads shouldn't be an issue for you.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Misinterpreted what you said then, I thought you were telling me to use the fireline in game more often, assuming I didn't have an ele or something. I have no threads about other fire ele skills or issues, as there truely are none, it is fine.
Xpl0iter
i am lost, there truely are none of what?
-.-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
I have no threads about other fire ele skills or issues, as there truely are none, it is fine.
Isn't it because you never made one?
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Issues with fire magic. I'm lost about the 2 posts above that. I think we're going to have to start back at square one, which I believe begins with both of us screaming OH EM EFF GEE N00B!!!ONE11ELEVEN!1
EDIT: @-.- I meant there are no issues in addition to no threads. I never claimed I had threads as I misinterpreted xploitor's post.
EDIT: @-.- I meant there are no issues in addition to no threads. I never claimed I had threads as I misinterpreted xploitor's post.
Symbol
Quote:
Gimme Money Plzkthx
I'm aware how much damage a physical based group can put out. Fire puts out a pretty good amount too, especially in the higher level areas. Plus, the average PvEr is simply going to yell and curse at me if I suggest bringing lots of warriors or something (16 weapon mastery? why!?!?!?!).
Xpl0iter
the major freakin example of how clueless these pve groups are is DOA thread.
Ever seen 1600 posts in 2 weeks? thats a hit. and that is AFTER NF.
Edit: I forgot that we have a person who tends to pick every spelling mistake while he can easily interpret what was said, I apologize.
Ever seen 1600 posts in 2 weeks? thats a hit. and that is AFTER NF.
Edit: I forgot that we have a person who tends to pick every spelling mistake while he can easily interpret what was said, I apologize.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
What is 1600 poss...
Xpl0iter
Uh no, they would not yell at you for brining that many warriors. that is actualy preety good. it works.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Actually I seriously did not understand what you meant by 1600 poss, thought it was some sort of new group or something. I am well aware that that many warriors would work very well, better than a lot of PvE groups, but my point is that the average PvEr does not understand this. They'd yell at me and call me a nub because warriors are meant for soaking up damage, right!?!?!?
Xpl0iter
I really do not care if avg player would understand this or not Gimme 
i know what your trying to say, but the fact remains a fact. things can easily be done without eles. People are just used to them.
They do not know how this game's mechanics work, which is why they would call you noob even if you ARE right.
This is why i hate to do PUGs.
I will be very slow in replying now, already in DOA.
i know what your trying to say, but the fact remains a fact. things can easily be done without eles. People are just used to them.They do not know how this game's mechanics work, which is why they would call you noob even if you ARE right.
This is why i hate to do PUGs.
I will be very slow in replying now, already in DOA.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
My point is, for a pug, eles are probably the best option. With the right 8 players, I could run pretty much anything and own pretty much anything I have experience with. Try running massive warrior damage in a pug. If you get beyond the first mob, I'd be surprised (oh em gee why n/mo and not monk??? YOU WANT ME WITH 16 WEAPON MASTERY!?!?!?!). My point is elementalists still work rather well, and for purposes of pick up groups with little or no communication, are the best option.
Xpl0iter
in my theory, eles work because of the lack of knowledge that exists within avg pugs.
It still doesn't change the fact that their skills are underpowered ^_^.
MS, 25 mana, exhaustion, 5 second cast, 60 recharge..... how much dmg and whats the AOE size again? pathetic ^_^ thats just one of the examples.
It still doesn't change the fact that their skills are underpowered ^_^.
MS, 25 mana, exhaustion, 5 second cast, 60 recharge..... how much dmg and whats the AOE size again? pathetic ^_^ thats just one of the examples.
Enko
Quote:
Originally Posted by keli
Well, im a big ele player (fow armor 4,7 mil xp) and i hate SF as well, if you play in HA the only build what can kill this is 6 melandrus dervish, or if everybody use frigid armor... this skill is overpovered and yes it needs a big big nerf.
umm, how is it overpowered in HA? I don't see any SF teams getting to HoH at all anymore. If people can manage to beat SF in Random Arena, I doubt it will be a problem in HA. or are you talking about the period when NF was first released and people first found Searing Flames? That was pretty much the only time that SF was successful in HoH.
This skill isn't overpowered as Burning is a requirement to get the damage and there are plenty of condition removal skills in the game. A mesmer or a daze ranger will shutdown a SF ele easily and those are both heavily played professions in PvP.
This skill isn't overpowered as Burning is a requirement to get the damage and there are plenty of condition removal skills in the game. A mesmer or a daze ranger will shutdown a SF ele easily and those are both heavily played professions in PvP.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Yea. It will shutdown one SF ele. This is out of 4 in HA, or 6 in GvG. The reasons that SF is beatable but still annoying and nerf-needed in PvP can be found in Gladiator's Arena (which has recently increasing the amount of open SF threads to 5 by my count, omfg one thread plzkthxbai).
The issue is not whether fire eles are pathetic, but whether they are the best AoE in the game. The answer is yes (excluding b/p groups). This leads to the question of whether AoE is the best damage in the game. The answer is not always, but it is the best to use for a pug. That pretty much sums it up, they're the best for their intended purpose. I'm aware that this post does not flow well at all and probably makes very little sense, I'll post something more clear in the morning when I'm not tired.
The issue is not whether fire eles are pathetic, but whether they are the best AoE in the game. The answer is yes (excluding b/p groups). This leads to the question of whether AoE is the best damage in the game. The answer is not always, but it is the best to use for a pug. That pretty much sums it up, they're the best for their intended purpose. I'm aware that this post does not flow well at all and probably makes very little sense, I'll post something more clear in the morning when I'm not tired.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
in my theory, eles work because of the lack of knowledge that exists within avg pugs.
It still doesn't change the fact that their skills are underpowered ^_^.
MS, 25 mana, exhaustion, 5 second cast, 60 recharge..... how much dmg and whats the AOE size again? pathetic ^_^ thats just one of the examples. Um, right. I wasnt going to reply till I saw someone bashing MS.
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...
Mantra of Concentration / Resolve
Glyph of Renewal
*wait a couple seconds, then aggro*
Meteor Shower (begin casting <10 seconds after GoR was cast)
Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Meteor Shower
All the while your good team mates are nuking the hell out of your target (with ideally one of those nukes being Deep Freeze).
The ability to single out a small area and assure the destruction of everything in it is the power of Meteor Shower. The small area is all you need, since any *competent* PVE Warrior knows how to group casters. (and no matter what skills you run, bunched enemies are easier to kill then spread out enemies)
Can you imagine 4 E/A running Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, Assassin's Promise, Death's Charge, Inferno in freakin PVE? [hint, that strategy makes fights in FOW take <10 seconds]
Have you considered the application of MS+Incendiary Bonds+Fireball?
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame.
It still doesn't change the fact that their skills are underpowered ^_^.
MS, 25 mana, exhaustion, 5 second cast, 60 recharge..... how much dmg and whats the AOE size again? pathetic ^_^ thats just one of the examples. Um, right. I wasnt going to reply till I saw someone bashing MS.
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...
Mantra of Concentration / Resolve
Glyph of Renewal
*wait a couple seconds, then aggro*
Meteor Shower (begin casting <10 seconds after GoR was cast)
Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Meteor Shower
All the while your good team mates are nuking the hell out of your target (with ideally one of those nukes being Deep Freeze).
The ability to single out a small area and assure the destruction of everything in it is the power of Meteor Shower. The small area is all you need, since any *competent* PVE Warrior knows how to group casters. (and no matter what skills you run, bunched enemies are easier to kill then spread out enemies)
Can you imagine 4 E/A running Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, Assassin's Promise, Death's Charge, Inferno in freakin PVE? [hint, that strategy makes fights in FOW take <10 seconds]
Have you considered the application of MS+Incendiary Bonds+Fireball?
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
Um, right. I wasnt going to reply till I saw someone bashing MS.
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...
Mantra of Concentration / Resolve
Glyph of Renewal
*wait a couple seconds, then aggro*
Meteor Shower (begin casting <10 seconds after GoR was cast)
Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Meteor Shower
All the while your good team mates are nuking the hell out of your target (with ideally one of those nukes being Deep Freeze).
The ability to single out a small area and assure the destruction of everything in it is the power of Meteor Shower. The small area is all you need, since any *competent* PVE Warrior knows how to group casters. (and no matter what skills you run, bunched enemies are easier to kill then spread out enemies)
Can you imagine 4 E/A running Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, Assassin's Promise, Death's Charge, Inferno in freakin PVE? [hint, that strategy makes fights in FOW take <10 seconds]
Have you considered the application of MS+Incendiary Bonds+Fireball?
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame. meteor shower is a shitty skill that has poor DPS and the only thing it's good for is the knockdown. I've seen teams with 4 E/A in HA, and they're always terrible.
You know what else clears mobs in FoW in under 10 seconds? A good team.
We're treading into the domain of other threads that exist already, but I suggest you read Ensign's "Why Nuking Sucks" thread, play with a real team, then come back.
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...
Mantra of Concentration / Resolve
Glyph of Renewal
*wait a couple seconds, then aggro*
Meteor Shower (begin casting <10 seconds after GoR was cast)
Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Meteor Shower
All the while your good team mates are nuking the hell out of your target (with ideally one of those nukes being Deep Freeze).
The ability to single out a small area and assure the destruction of everything in it is the power of Meteor Shower. The small area is all you need, since any *competent* PVE Warrior knows how to group casters. (and no matter what skills you run, bunched enemies are easier to kill then spread out enemies)
Can you imagine 4 E/A running Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, Assassin's Promise, Death's Charge, Inferno in freakin PVE? [hint, that strategy makes fights in FOW take <10 seconds]
Have you considered the application of MS+Incendiary Bonds+Fireball?
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame. meteor shower is a shitty skill that has poor DPS and the only thing it's good for is the knockdown. I've seen teams with 4 E/A in HA, and they're always terrible.
You know what else clears mobs in FoW in under 10 seconds? A good team.
We're treading into the domain of other threads that exist already, but I suggest you read Ensign's "Why Nuking Sucks" thread, play with a real team, then come back.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame.
I'd pick an air ele over someone with MS and i consider myself a good PvE player, proven by the higher success rate of teams i create than those of others playing nothing but the same old cookie cutter crap.
S_Serpent
SF hardly makes it past round 2 in HA, lol must by such a LEET skill
People are blind to the pathetic nerfs eles have indured since the beginning. They are nowhere near to what the are proclaimed to be in the manual of the game. The Fire line has only SF as the only balanced skill and you still need GG to gain energy from the burning conditional. AoE is tops, yeah right as the primary AoE dmg class ele where nerved to oblivion with the AoE nerf so long ago. Before NF and SF you hardly saw any ele in HA (and don't talk about a suicidale starburster). So ele had to do support: wards, blind bot or runner = WOOT that is the advertisement of the ele in the manual I DON'T THINK SO!
if SF is nerved then for the sake of balance every single fire skill will need a buff! Or the fire eles can go hide under a rock again. I stopped playing fire ele since the AoE nerf because it made the fire ele pathetic. Only since nightfall I have started to play fire again because it gives the ele what it is supposed to do mass AoE pressure. But alas if the nerf hits I'll have to play support again or earth builds (then a crying Shiro can start making nerf the earth eles threads).
People are blind to the pathetic nerfs eles have indured since the beginning. They are nowhere near to what the are proclaimed to be in the manual of the game. The Fire line has only SF as the only balanced skill and you still need GG to gain energy from the burning conditional. AoE is tops, yeah right as the primary AoE dmg class ele where nerved to oblivion with the AoE nerf so long ago. Before NF and SF you hardly saw any ele in HA (and don't talk about a suicidale starburster). So ele had to do support: wards, blind bot or runner = WOOT that is the advertisement of the ele in the manual I DON'T THINK SO!
if SF is nerved then for the sake of balance every single fire skill will need a buff! Or the fire eles can go hide under a rock again. I stopped playing fire ele since the AoE nerf because it made the fire ele pathetic. Only since nightfall I have started to play fire again because it gives the ele what it is supposed to do mass AoE pressure. But alas if the nerf hits I'll have to play support again or earth builds (then a crying Shiro can start making nerf the earth eles threads).
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Serpent
if SF is nerved then for the sake of balance every single fire skill will need a buff! Or the fire eles can go hide under a rock again. This sums it up. Searing flames needs an adjustment so it isn't so rediculous when you have 3 people spamming it; the rest of the fire line has been needing a buff for quite some time.
You also must not have watched the double fame weekend; everyone was running multiple copies of it with thumpers to churn out the points.
To be honest I don't see why there are so many threads on it; it's getting nerfed, so deal with it.
S_Serpent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
This sums it up. Searing flames needs an adjustment so it isn't so rediculous when you have 3 people spamming it; the rest of the fire line has been needing a buff for quite some time.
You also must not have watched the double fame weekend; everyone was running multiple copies of it with thumpers to churn out the points.
To be honest I don't see why there are so many threads on it; it's getting nerfed, so deal with it. ok I have no problem with that, too bad I'll lose my fame gathering from beating those SF teams every single time in HA, but other teams and builds will come which my guildies and I shall defeat again (your either a whiner or an adapter - plz take our pick)
To many times those SF eles where shocked too have been whiped by us in mere 10 seconds or so. and actually I found quite a few very mature in there defeat congratulating us for the victory. Since that is how we try to congratulate a awesome build that defeats us too.
You also must not have watched the double fame weekend; everyone was running multiple copies of it with thumpers to churn out the points.
To be honest I don't see why there are so many threads on it; it's getting nerfed, so deal with it. ok I have no problem with that, too bad I'll lose my fame gathering from beating those SF teams every single time in HA, but other teams and builds will come which my guildies and I shall defeat again (your either a whiner or an adapter - plz take our pick)
To many times those SF eles where shocked too have been whiped by us in mere 10 seconds or so. and actually I found quite a few very mature in there defeat congratulating us for the victory. Since that is how we try to congratulate a awesome build that defeats us too.
Blightfire
There are so many counters to SF which people could have looked up on instead of whining on how SF should be nerfed. If enough people run it then i believe there is enough justification to run a counter... if everyone is using scissors then you should use rock, no?
Just look at how many groups that win halls are actually SF teams... SF isn't an I win button, it just makes Ele do what they're supposed to do, damage.
@Thom Bangalter
You are contradicting yourself here:
You tell people to read the thread Why nuking sucks, which I have, that gives numbers on how nukes do not do enough dmg outright/proper energy control. And here it is, the answer to that being searing flames and glowing gaze. Yet when it comes out it seems you are in support that searing flames is nerfed. Isn't searing flames just doing what the thread by ensign says elementalists should be able to do? If the rest of the fireline indeed gets buffed, everyone would just be whining about how it has to be nerfed instead of searing flames... and the cycle continues
Just look at how many groups that win halls are actually SF teams... SF isn't an I win button, it just makes Ele do what they're supposed to do, damage.
@Thom Bangalter
You are contradicting yourself here:
You tell people to read the thread Why nuking sucks, which I have, that gives numbers on how nukes do not do enough dmg outright/proper energy control. And here it is, the answer to that being searing flames and glowing gaze. Yet when it comes out it seems you are in support that searing flames is nerfed. Isn't searing flames just doing what the thread by ensign says elementalists should be able to do? If the rest of the fireline indeed gets buffed, everyone would just be whining about how it has to be nerfed instead of searing flames... and the cycle continues
ensoriki
fire eles are a pve class, they deal in AOE, the fact that this thing allows them to be some middle-high tier pvp class is absurd,
searing flames just makes it so Fire eles are better at pvp (they werent Unplayable in pvp before -_-....mark of rodgart was a fine skill for pvp because of the degen
bah fires the pvp...
Water is a mix
Earth is a mix
Wind is more pvp oriented
Don't complain because a skill COULD be put in its place.
searing flames just makes it so Fire eles are better at pvp (they werent Unplayable in pvp before -_-....mark of rodgart was a fine skill for pvp because of the degen
bah fires the pvp...
Water is a mix
Earth is a mix
Wind is more pvp oriented
Don't complain because a skill COULD be put in its place.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
The reason you roll SF teams in HA in under 10 seconds is because 99% of those teams have the intelligence of my dog. A good searing flames team that knows wtf is going on is pretty good, but of course, you see practically none of these. And again, there are plenty of counters to searing flames, the problem is that quite a few of them are searing flames specific. As to the people who continually say that you never saw eles in PvP before SF, you obviously do not PvP at all.
Francis Crawford
There are a whole lot of counters to SF that are SF-specific, granted. There are a whole lot more that AREN'T SF-specific. Good teams are not using SF to win anything. Bad teams that try are not having the mindless success of, say, IWAY.
What again is the genuine problem here???
What again is the genuine problem here???
Zaxan Razor
Anet always seem kinda short sighted in their skill balances. While i agree with most skills that they 'nerf', i think the best idea would be to limit the amount of each profession in pvp teams:
So for instance, no more than 3 of each profession.
This would eliminate most of the ultra boring spike teams both in gvg and Ha. Tho i have to admit i havn't played HA for a long time now, around the release of factions.
But if this were implemented from the start, we wouldn't have had Iway, Ranger Spike, Obsidian Flame Spike, Foc spike..etc etc
So for instance, no more than 3 of each profession.
This would eliminate most of the ultra boring spike teams both in gvg and Ha. Tho i have to admit i havn't played HA for a long time now, around the release of factions.
But if this were implemented from the start, we wouldn't have had Iway, Ranger Spike, Obsidian Flame Spike, Foc spike..etc etc
Mouse at Large
By the logic of some of the posts, I would expect all aspects of PvE to be completely dominated bt SF ele teams. Open your eyes - IT'S NOT.
While we're at it, can I just put down a few markers of my own.......
I'd like Necros generally nerfed - all that degen kills me
Assassins and Warriors likewise for their overpowered slayage
oh, and Dervishes as well
Mesmers should be removed from the game entirely as should be all the Ranger interrupts
Monks and Rits can stay just as long as they freeze in place and don't run away from my AoE spells
Heaven forbid I should have to actually think how to deal with any of the above.
I'm still a glass cannon with 60 AL and no defensive buffs. If you look at the recent Wintersday Tournament, where teams were restricted to Core and Nightfall skills, by the logic of the pro-nerf brigade, a team stuffed full of SF eles should have walked it.....
Errrrrrr - didn't happen.
Q.E.D.
While we're at it, can I just put down a few markers of my own.......
I'd like Necros generally nerfed - all that degen kills me
Assassins and Warriors likewise for their overpowered slayage
oh, and Dervishes as well
Mesmers should be removed from the game entirely as should be all the Ranger interrupts
Monks and Rits can stay just as long as they freeze in place and don't run away from my AoE spells
Heaven forbid I should have to actually think how to deal with any of the above.
I'm still a glass cannon with 60 AL and no defensive buffs. If you look at the recent Wintersday Tournament, where teams were restricted to Core and Nightfall skills, by the logic of the pro-nerf brigade, a team stuffed full of SF eles should have walked it.....
Errrrrrr - didn't happen.
Q.E.D.
Xpl0iter
[QUOTE=ubermancer]Um, right. I wasnt going to reply till I saw someone bashing MS.
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...[/quoe]
I am well aware of MS and i have yet to see a PVP player who knows how to play pvp, Standing inside MS for 9 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubermancer
You are aware that it hits three times (making it more energy efficient then fireball in terms of raw damage), and causes KD, right? Which can often mean trapping several foes (even with its poor AOE) for several seconds, unable to do anything. Not to mention you can do some craziness like...[/quoe]
I am well aware of MS and i have yet to see a PVP player who knows how to play pvp, Standing inside MS for 9 seconds.
Quote:
Glyph of Renewal
*wait a couple seconds, then aggro*
Meteor Shower (begin casting <10 seconds after GoR was cast)
Glyph of Renewal
Meteor Shower
Meteor Shower
if its pvp, kindly dont run that silly bar in pvp.
It will affect them once, after that, they will be parepared for you. ( unless they are retarded ofcourse )
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by ubermancer The ability to single out a small area and assure the destruction of everything in it is the power of Meteor Shower. The small area is all you need, since any *competent* PVE Warrior knows how to group casters. (and no matter what skills you run, bunched enemies are easier to kill then spread out enemies) isin't tha twhat i have been ranting about since last 20 posts?
POSITIONING.
Regardless how stupid a team is or HOW small an AREA is. EVEN in RA, you have ENOUGH and i repeat, ENOUGH space to do spacing for MS.
Adjacent foes is NOTHING., That skill is OK in PVE, but NOT in PVP. Period!
Quote: Originally Posted by ubermancer Can you imagine 4 E/A running Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, Assassin's Promise, Death's Charge, Inferno in freakin PVE? [hint, that strategy makes fights in FOW take <10 seconds] try that in DOA for me. The place that makes FoW looks like a Child's Play.
Quote:
Have you considered the application of MS+Incendiary Bonds+Fireball?
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame. First and Most important, MS remains shitty regardless how u put it out for me.
Secondly, I DO NOT go out in PVE without MS ANY where, and If you notice the skill bars i have mentioned for ANY TEAM ever, My Bar always had a Glyph of Sac + MS in it.
Third MY BAR before SF Mostly been this:
FIreball, Incendiary, ROdgort's Invocation, MS, Arcane Echo, Glyph of SAC and DUal Atuunes.
I do not need Renewal Nuking when my Aoe's Range is a measely ADJACENT foe. I can walk out of MS in my sleep in PVP.
For PVP, i use MS for KnockDOWN and SF for Dmg Output.
We will go in numbers when we need to when the dmg output of SF and MS with Renewal needs be discussed.
If i EVER go in PVP, i beg you NOT to tell me to take fire bar in it which doesn't have SF in it, cause other skills have a pathetic recharge.
Renewal MS is not enough dmg + Hideous Cast time and a pathetic AOE.
My BAR for FoW is the one i listed above, those 8 skills. try them and see your dmg output when compared to Renewal MS. You will be Way more Flexible with whom you attempt to hit. There are times when you want to have MS droped on Monks and kill a mesmer with the rest of those skills in PVE.
Cast Arecane in advance, go do ur MS
then glyph sac and throw second ms, go incendiary and rodgorts and end up with fireball.
This simple setup will acompany every single meteor that you drop keeping a good dmg output, for AS LONG AS THEY ARE BUNCHED UP. But then, they are monsters who DO take dmg from nuke.
As thom suggested and i have been bashing same idea over and over, Check Why nuking Sucks. I told Gimme the VERY same thing in this thread.
I cant believe I am actually defending Meteor Shower. If you dont see its use and consider yourself a good PVE player, I beg of you - play more PVP, those guys need the Fame. First and Most important, MS remains shitty regardless how u put it out for me.
Secondly, I DO NOT go out in PVE without MS ANY where, and If you notice the skill bars i have mentioned for ANY TEAM ever, My Bar always had a Glyph of Sac + MS in it.
Third MY BAR before SF Mostly been this:
FIreball, Incendiary, ROdgort's Invocation, MS, Arcane Echo, Glyph of SAC and DUal Atuunes.
I do not need Renewal Nuking when my Aoe's Range is a measely ADJACENT foe. I can walk out of MS in my sleep in PVP.
For PVP, i use MS for KnockDOWN and SF for Dmg Output.
We will go in numbers when we need to when the dmg output of SF and MS with Renewal needs be discussed.
If i EVER go in PVP, i beg you NOT to tell me to take fire bar in it which doesn't have SF in it, cause other skills have a pathetic recharge.
Renewal MS is not enough dmg + Hideous Cast time and a pathetic AOE.
My BAR for FoW is the one i listed above, those 8 skills. try them and see your dmg output when compared to Renewal MS. You will be Way more Flexible with whom you attempt to hit. There are times when you want to have MS droped on Monks and kill a mesmer with the rest of those skills in PVE.
Cast Arecane in advance, go do ur MS
then glyph sac and throw second ms, go incendiary and rodgorts and end up with fireball.
This simple setup will acompany every single meteor that you drop keeping a good dmg output, for AS LONG AS THEY ARE BUNCHED UP. But then, they are monsters who DO take dmg from nuke.
As thom suggested and i have been bashing same idea over and over, Check Why nuking Sucks. I told Gimme the VERY same thing in this thread.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by S_Serpent
SF hardly makes it past round 2 in HA, lol must by such a LEET skill People are blind to the pathetic nerfs eles have indured since the beginning. They are nowhere near to what the are proclaimed to be in the manual of the game. The Fire line has only SF as the only balanced skill and you still need GG to gain energy from the burning conditional. AoE is tops, yeah right as the primary AoE dmg class ele where nerved to oblivion with the AoE nerf so long ago. Before NF and SF you hardly saw any ele in HA (and don't talk about a suicidale starburster). So ele had to do support: wards, blind bot or runner = WOOT that is the advertisement of the ele in the manual I DON'T THINK SO! if SF is nerved then for the sake of balance every single fire skill will need a buff! Or the fire eles can go hide under a rock again. I stopped playing fire ele since the AoE nerf because it made the fire ele pathetic. Only since nightfall I have started to play fire again because it gives the ele what it is supposed to do mass AoE pressure. But alas if the nerf hits I'll have to play support again or earth builds (then a crying Shiro can start making nerf the earth eles Very well said and Summarizes what EVER i have said in this thread Been ranting to BUFF the fire line if one is going to NERF SF. Fire line is NO WAY Balanced. It is Underpowered which needs to be brought back up. Quote:
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