Who/what is to blame for PUG numbers dropping?

I would rather [insert really bad situation or thing] than have to deal with some of the people I have dealt with :\

Personally, I like PUG's and I'd rather PUG a quest/mission than hench it anyday. I'm a mature 30 something woman and I play this game to relax and have fun. I own all 3 campaigns however I have only been playing for a few months. I haven't finished any of the games so I can't comment on any of the harder end game missions. I've heard Thunderhead Keep is hard. I'll take your word for it. I've never tried it.

My progress so far....
Prophecies - Just arrived in the desert last week. Just figured out the teleporter yesterday. (I don't take runs. I'd rather figure out the way myself)

Factions - Just finished the Sunjiang Mission and I've chosen to visit the Kurzicks in House Zu Heltzer. Haven't finished any quests there yet.

Nightfall - Just started really. Finished the mission Jounar Digs last night. (Dang! Sunspear Ghosts!!)

So with that in mind. I try to find PUGs for everything if possible. I've noticed that it's basically impossible to get a PUG for most quests. Only for the missions or Primary quest tracks with a few exceptions for the harder quests like Captured Son. There just aren't enough people in town interested.
Here are my top reasons for disliking PUG groups:

1. Immaturity. Like previously said, a lot of pugs contain the little kids who just want to spam "MY ARMOR ROCKS!!!" "MY WEAPON IS AWESOME!!!!!" "JADE BROTHERHOD SUCKS!" and/or scribble in crayon all over the map endlessly once you leave town.

2. Impatience. The only thing that makes me vent in a pug is a leader who zones into the mission as soon as I join, even though I've said "W8, fixing skills!" I promptly inform him that I have 2 skills on my bar and I want to restart and that it's extremely rude to start a mission when folks aren't ready. Along the same lines, I will never do a mission that I've never done before with a PUG. If I've never seen the mission I prefer to "get the lay of the land" before going with real people. I also enjoy watching the videos if I've never seen them and that tends to make a lot of folks mad nowadays. I'll later repeat the mission with PUGs in order to get masters or the bonus.

3. Bigots - No, not that kind of bigot, profession bigots. Just try getting into a pug with your Assassin. It's impossible. The other day, a rarity occurred and my region had favor. I wanted to go to the FOW so I took my warrior over to ToA and tried to join a PUG. I saw a girl spamming..."FOW GLF more people 3/8" so I clicked her to join and saw that she had 1 Ele, 1 Necro and 1 Monk already. She promptly rejected my warrior. Next she starts spamming "FOW GLF more people 3/8 NO WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" In general I've found that my warrior is unwanted in most fow groups. Why are warriors so disliked in fow?

4. Quitters - Hey at least the henchies don't cuss you out 10 minutes into the mission and leave.

5. Egomaniacs - These are generally the same people who quit after they find out you don't have the specific build they want you to have. Of course they have to spam "stoopid noob" 50 times before leaving just so you know they're upset. I got into a PUG doing Mayhem in the Market about a month ago. One of the guys in the group would not leave this poor little necro alone. Apparently she had a skill on her bar that really didn't fit in with the other mm skills she was using. He cussed her out. Called her a moron and other things I won't repeat here. The necro asked him politely to please lay off. She just bought the game last week and was still learning how to play. This only infuriated him more and he kept at it. By the time we finished the mission, we were all sick of him and his mouth. (BTW, the necro played much better than he did)

6. Pessimists - You've seen them many times. You warp into a mission or fow and 5 minutes into a mission they die. The monk revives them, but they don't care. They moan that they now have DP, it's hopeless, BYE!

7. Oversexed teens - Got into a pug a few weeks ago. As soon as we warp into the mission one of the girls strips off all her armor and declares "who cares about this stupid mission, let's have sex instead!". We restarted and kicked her.

8. Clueless recruiters - These are the PUG leaders with no idea how to form a good group. Here's my all time favorite: I was in Zen Daijun and I needed to complete the mission. I see a warrior spamming open chat..."GLF Mission 3/6". It was an odd time of day and not many people were in town. I joined his group and then waited 20-30 minutes for him to fill up to the 6 people needed for the mission. During that time we had people drop out and others came on. It was a very long and boring wait for the required people. Well finally, we have 6 people and everyone declares "rdy"! Our fearless leader promptly zones us out to the Lagoon area.
Huh?
"Wait! I thought we were doing the mission?", I said.
"We are! We're doing the captured son mission, Dookus", he replies.
Well, I said some things that weren't very nice and left.

Well, enough of my griping. Overall I love PUG groups. I'd rather play with real people any day. I'll try a mission once with a pug. If they're bad I won't go out a 2nd time with them. I'll just make up some excuse and go find a different group. At least bad groups have entertainment value.

Some of the people I have been with PuGing have completely BLOWN away heroes, and it's 10x more fun.

Especially in places where you have someone to guard lest the mission fails, PuGs can do it loads better than AI.

It's truely sad seeing everyone turn into anti-social imps who will only play with those that won't say anything (outside the little speech bubble).

If they put a feature in to replace crappy team members with a hero, following a group vote. PUGing would be a happy thing again.

I don't currently play other online games, but I have. People are just as horrible everywhere, yes. That's why in any online game I've played, I've played the absolute minimum possible with people that I did not know. I can enjoy playing by myself, I'm sorry if you can't. If I enjoy the Guild Wars PvE gameplay, and I enjoy doing that by with heroes/henchmen, or a few select people than who are you to say that I should go play something else offline?

I can only speak for myself, but even in Prophecies, I grouped with pugs very minimally. I used the henchmen alone most of the time, sometimes had a group of select friends. Why? Because even with the problems that Prophs henches have/had, they were still more efficient and less infuriating than PUGs. I never, ever, ever grouped with anybody but henchmen and friends for quests.

What do you even care? Even if all of the players that find PUGs less than satisfying did end up grouping up together, it's still going to leave out all of the people that suck and are bitching about how there's nobody to group up with. It won't solve anything. Heroes and henchmen will almost always be easier, quicker, and more efficient than anything but groups of friends/guildies.

I don't need to sit in a town for 30 minutes trying to put together a group that won't fail when I have 3 heroes whose bars I know will work, and will help carry the less efficient henchmen if need be and still get the mission done faster than the people trying to perfect their PUG group.

How would that change anything? Both of those groups of people exist together. The only difference would be that they exist separately. Cutting out the group that doesn't want to play with PUGs wouldn't somehow magically give you more people that want to play with you. It wouldn't make it feel less pointless to "lfg". You'd still get the same number of people wanting to PUG because the same number of people not wanting to PUG still exist, just elsewhere.

I don't understand why you care so much about how I choose to play the game that I paid for. I'm not taking away from your experience, nor anybody else that chooses not to PUG. Imagine if all heroes and henchmen were taken away and everybody was suddenly forced to either get guild groups, friend groups, or PUG. Most likely, you'd be forced to team up with a lot of people who were less than happy about being forced to work with people who suck, and would end up ruining your gameplay. Then you'd be sitting here bitching to bring the AI back because you were sick of the nasty attitudes that came with what you so wanted in the first place.

I'm not telling you how to play the game that you paid for, stop telling me how I should play mine.

Wow i play a monk i dont afk inless im by my self with henchies out side of towns, i also *gasp* help players with ThK and anyother mission i have already done just becuse i enjoy playing monk. People need to stop placeing people in to "sterotypes" becuse of profesion there are still monks out there that like to monk and help with pugs. the universal idea that monks are not player friendly is sad im working toward changeing that

What would be intersting is PUB-only dist and solo dist, maybe help see how many really want to PUB vs solo....

Those examples u gave are why I do everything with my friend and our 6 other heroes unless we really need a pug like when we had to kill Shiro. I never pugged even when there wasn't heroes so dunno how others feel aboug pugging. :$

It's kind of funny seeing all these "what happened to the PuG?" threads, when back when people used PuGs regularly, there were all these PuG hate threads, monk abuse threads, and biggest jerk threads.

Who's to blame? PuGs

heroes were a godsend imo, and I never really looked back ever since. For a while I had faith in PuGs, but I've wasted too many hours/days/weeks on bad PuGs to want to do it anymore. Last PuG I tried out was at hells, with a necro that thought he was a warrior (sword and shield), barked orders at everyone the entire time, and had one of the most bizarre builds I've seen in a long time. I had a good laugh watching him try to tank things, and dying a lot, but it was really a waste of time. PuGs can be great entertainment sometimes if you're not serious about getting anything done imo. Too bad I'm usually serious though, unless I'm playing my monk

It may be just me, but all of my best experiences are with the so called "clueless pugs". In fact its ONLY with the pugs that I feel I am actually playing an MMORPG and not some kind of calculated strategy game like when I play with the "good and reliable friends and guildies and players". So many with pugs I had cute little mending wammo trying to throw himself in between me (monk) and the monsters and putting healing hands and mending on me when I am getting spiked, of course not very effective, but comeon, who can really get angry at someone like that (although the many many perfectionists will). Then there's the necro who keep chasing me casting blood ritual even though I am ridiculously full. And the earth ele with way too many redundant wards that always seem to be next to me.....In general I feel much more like I am in a cooperative game with pugs (although some really really stupid usage of skills is used, but its usually pretty funny), rather than to follow a script of "this is the right way to play so that we WIN".

Hit the nail on the head.

No, not at all. I group with other real players regularly, but they're people I know, not PUG's. I also socialize by chatting and trading in towns & outposts, which accounts for the more random social aspect of multiplayer gaming. It's not hard to make friends or join a guild in this game, and joining PUG's is not necessary to do either. Also, if multiple people want to play with other random people, then the problem is them finding each other, not my choice not to join their PUG.

PUGs are killing PUGs. I dread joining a PUG with some classes; I've never had trouble with PUGs with my Mesmer (crazy, that), but I've hated it with my necro a couple of times (no, I don't do MM, SS only, cope) and I dread it with my ele. My ele *was* fire up until last week, when I realized that in a PUG, people would freak out the first time I cast something that wasn't what THEY wanted out of a fire ele (besides air spiker is seriously fun). Hey I like tossing out a firestorm or two when things come along beating on my monks. It keeps my monks from getting killed, but there's those people who see that and go "OMG NOOB WTF are you doing casting firestorm?!? it sux!"

A halfway decent PUG full of people with half a clue (general understanding of mechanics and how to use the skills they've got), with good attitude, who aren't build nazis who want just certain builds, should be able to get through most missions/quests just fine. So why always freak about builds? Why be a jerk? Why act like the PUG is lucky for having *you* in their group? I've had people ragequit in the first 5 minutes of a mission when things go wrong, screaming "F*ck you noobs I'm too good to work with you", and when that same PUG went back to the outpost and tossed a henchie in that supposedly "great" player's place, we get masters. Come on. Leave the ego out of the game.

I'm with Phoenix Ex and TheRaven here; think outside the box, be polite, and have some fun.

I don't understand why one of these threads appear every few months. Why don't you just dig up one of the old threads, read it, realize you have nothing new to say, add your own comment to the bottom (if you still feel the need to), and be done with it?

And to those of you talking about the fun of single-player vs. multiplayer - it's going to depend on the person. Some of you obviously find it more fun to play with other people. Some don't find any enjoyment from playing with random strangers. You can't expect everyone to like to play the game the way you want to play it.

The situation of people not being given the "choice" to multiplayer because there aren't enough other people to form PuGs doesn't constitute a good argument for forcing other people to multiplayer. Should I be forced to PuG just because someone else needs a monk? Should I be forced to have sex with someone just because they can't get laid? It's absurd to think that someone should be forced to participate in your recreation. If you really want to do something and can't get anyone else to do it with you, do it with yourself.

The bottom line is this: a lot of people have no incentive to PuG. If this results in a situation where the people who want to PuG, can't, because there aren't enough like-minded people, it is simply the unfortunate result of PuGs being unenjoyable and counterproductive to too many people. If you honestly can't find people to PuG with, it should indicate something profound to you: you and your opinions are such a minority that you can't even put together 4, 6, or 8 other people that share your ideas.

If you want to have a good PuG community again, you have to improve the quality of the players, and there are very few mechanisms in place to do so. The game itself isn't difficult enough to punish people for bad playing, so just playing the game isn't going to make you better. Even forums like Gurus don't really do a good job of it because there is far too much tolerance for stupidity and misinformation. Most of the threads I've read here make me wonder if I should laugh or cry, and the sad part is that other forums (like GWOnline.net) are worse.

But of course, a big part of the problem is that most players are either too stupid or just unwilling to improve, and there's nothing you can do about either camp. Furthermore, I'm sure there are many players who don't see any point in getting good at a video game. There's nothing wrong with that mentality, but it does mean that they aren't going to get along with the serious gamers who care very much about results.

TOP TEN RULES FOR PUGS

1. It's Just a game

2. Make the goals clear before you start:
- Is everyone trying for masters?
- For FOW/UW, does everyone have the same agenda? Chest runs only? Beach spiders? Forge? etc.
- If there is a bundle item to carry, who will carry it?

3. As a PUG leader, choose a nice balance of professions. 8 Assassins probably won't win. Neither will 7 Warriors and 1 Monk. Most missions/quests will require at least 1 healer and a nice mix of melee attackers and casters.

4. If you anticipate the mission taking more than a half-hour then ask everyone if they can stay still the end. Nothing is more frustrating than Mommy calling your only Monk to dinner halfway thru the mission.

5. Make sure everyone is ready before starting. Everybody got their skills set? Does anyone need keys? Need to Merch first? Gone to the bathroom?

6. Don't force others in the PUG to play your ideal build. It's ok to suggest that "a trapper is better in this mission than an interrupter", but if the player you're talking to doesn't want to trap then don't force him. If a trapper really is necessary then kick him and advertise for a trapper. I play a Blood Necro and I lost count of the number of times I've been cussed out because I didn't start generating minions immediately. Hey, guys I never said I was a mm and you didn't ask me what my build was.

7. Kick the troublemakers. If you fail a mission, you generally know why. If the entire PUG just plain sucked then you might want to leave. Usually though it's just 1 or 2 bad players. Kick them and try again. This also includes the talented players that are just bad for morale. I went into the FOW the other day with a horrible horrible monk. As far as monking skills went, she was fantastic! She kept us all healthy and alive even when we made mistakes. However she was also cussing us out the entire time. "stupid noobs" "Idiot wammo!" "Are you a minion master? In fow?? What a moron!!" "F U, Rit!" "stfu warrior!" I'll never go on a another mission with her again, I don't care how badly we need a monk.

8. Be honest. If you've never done this mission before or are nervous about your skills then say so. Display your build and ask for advice. The leader may kick you, but if he does you wouldn't have enjoyed playing with those jerks anyways.

9. Speak up, but be courteous. If you have an idea that will contribute to the group, then mention it. For example:
- You've been trying to find an 8th person fruitlessly, but you know your hero could fill it easily. Ask if you can bring him.
- The leader is spamming "GLF 2nd Monk" but you think an elementalist would be a better choice. Ok, then say so and say why you prefer an ele.
- You think a certain skill sucks that someone just displayed. Politely suggest a different skill that they could bring.
- During the mission you see a player make a really bone-headed move. Instead of shouting "You f*** moron!!", give him/her tips that can improve his gameplay.
- Your dog just knocked the lamp off the table behind you. Tell your group you'll "brb in 1 min" instead of letting them wonder why you aren't attacking.

10. It's Just a Game. This isn't real life. So what if you fail a mission? It's not like it's a permanent scar on your life. (If it is, then you have other issues that need to be addressed!)

From my experience last night....on my way to Vabbi with my paragon.

First mission....Crossroads
1. With PUG :
Well it took 10 mins to form and there was great debate about which heroes to bring - we ended up with 2 - one needed to start mission and another monk.
5 mins into the mission one of the players got into a huff coz he believed no one was listening to him. He threatened to quit.
Another guy (a ranger) just kept on dying and had -60 dp in no time but didn't hang back.
The team split up at one stage unintentially and we were nearly wiped because of that - we recovered though.
Eventually we got through the mission without much more problems.

I did the very next mission with my Heros and Henchies
WaterTower or somthing....
2. With Hero/Hench
I had 2 die at the final boss - 1 hero and 1 hench but apart from that everything went fast and perfectly.

So overall I got a refresher about why I don't really PUG any more.
My hero/henches have a telepahic link regarding what to attack, faster to get into mission and overall better performance from the team - which acts like a team.

I agree with Xenrath for the point of having everyone in these forums just make a "Super guild" or "Super group", since that would most likely solve everything. Just my opinion.

I almost never PUG, it's an exercize in frustration. In 99% of situations heroes + henches kill things faster, manage energy better, and die less. They follow my instructions, they don't AFK, they don't mind if I AFK, they don't get pissed off if I have to leave mid-mission for a guild event. The other 1% is in the elite endgame and those special situations where a party has to do something special to complete an objective, and for that I can hold out on guildies who know what they are about.

You hit it right on as to missions they are meant like I said in my thread a few pages back that CooP mission were meant to be played with real ppl.The reason is if those ppl have any chance at wanting to PvP is to be cooperative with each other.I don't know about you all but I had mmy best time PuGing in Tyria and Cantha but found it boring with doing some missions with heros/henches in Elona.I like PuGing for the social enviroment as I am a social person.I just can't stand doing everything with AIs if I wanted to I would play single play.I guess there could be single player of GW.I care about keeping real ppl alive not npcs.

I'm a pro Pugger and I've been pugging through the games all the time. If people want to play with heroes and henchmen it's fine because it's their choice just as I choose to play in PuGs. The people who choose not to PuG should not be denied the right of how they want to play, that is just stupid. You shouldn't try to force people to playing with groups of other people when they don't want to. Just accept their choice and leave them alone stop hassling them. If they want to play with heroes and henchmen let them. If people want to PuG, including myself I'll find others who want to do the same. Everyone has the right to choose if they want to play with others or not and should not be hassle for it.


taken from the guild wars box

I found a great text to describe PUG in the movie: The Adventures of Ford Fairlane.
PUGing is like masturbating with a cheese grater. Slightly amusing, but mostly painful.