The AI is rediculous - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Myria

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

13 Jan 2007 at 20:13 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYX

Are we playing the same game?

Probably not.

Quote:

What strategic position are we talking about here?

Quote:

Or are there hidden health fountains I'm not aware of?

Oh I'm sure you're heard of them, they're called monks and, to a lesser extent, ritualists -- when I'm kiting I try and not get too far from them. I also try not to get too far from the warriors and dervishes that might be able to save my behind. I also look at terrain and try and use it to my advantage -- getting a wall, hill, or other obstacle between you and the bad guys can do wonders for your survivability. Don't overextend, use terrain to your advantage, hand off a physical to a warrior if you can, those three are pretty basic components of kiting, the AI manages none of them and most often does the exact opposite.

Quote:

I also fail to understand why this particular thing in PvE is ridiculous.

Quote:

Why focus on this thing in particular?

Granted, it is only one of many weird and sub-optimal activities the AI engages in, but it is relatively new, seemingly pointless, and particularly tedious. If they wanted to improve the AI there are many things, a near endless number having been suggested on this very board, they could have done besides adding a Benny Hill mode.

Melody Cross

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Alliance of Anguish [aOa]

Mo/

13 Jan 2007 at 20:26 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelsey Cain

I always think of benny Hill everytime this happens.

Please someone put a 'Benny Hill Chase' Video together and send it to the Devs

.../shrug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-DYh...elated&search=

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

13 Jan 2007 at 20:54 - 43

Instead of makin GW pve a laughing stock, why not give mobs better skills, what would be wrong with some of them having someway to Blind a W/?.

I'm sure as hell not going to go through all the skill but at least that way they could continue to do there job and heal other members of there group rather than run around like headless chickens.

What really annoys me is that we pay for this game and unfortunately it is becoming something of a joke.

I must say that I do not see this behaviour with my Necro, but if you play any melee character you'll need to put your running spikes on.

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

13 Jan 2007 at 21:14 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

It's the sensible thing for a healer under attack to be doing and finally makes crippling and slowing skills useful in PvE. Not only do I not see a problem, it's a genuine improvement as far as AI difficulty. Adapt, that's pretty much the name of the game anyway.

Then PvE players become pigeonholed into using certain skills like PvP when playing without groups of idiots they would normally be able to avoid.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

13 Jan 2007 at 22:06 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

How exactly is an AI monk running in circles for five minutes whilst you play tic-tac-toe on its back with your sword beating anyone? It makes them easier to kill, not harder, a running monk isn't healing and is taking crits like mad. People dislike it because it's moronic, tedious, and it makes no bloody sense, not because it's difficult.

I like Sprint -> Bull's Strike -> Frenzy -> Win.

Did I mention I like Frenzy in PvE?

Seriously, the ones mostly complaining are the ones that run around after this monk for half an hour trying to kill. No, it is not intelligent, I agree. However if you can't catch it, the AI has beaten you.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

13 Jan 2007 at 22:07 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

How exactly is an AI monk running in circles for five minutes whilst you play tic-tac-toe on its back with your sword beating anyone? It makes them easier to kill, not harder, a running monk isn't healing and is taking crits like mad. People dislike it because it's moronic, tedious, and it makes no bloody sense, not because it's difficult.

I like Sprint -> Bull's Strike -> Frenzy -> Win.

Did I mention I like Frenzy in PvE?

Seriously, the ones mostly complaining are the ones that run around after this monk for half an hour trying to kill. No, it is not intelligent, I agree. However if you can't catch it, the AI has beaten you.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

13 Jan 2007 at 22:54 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

Then PvE players become pigeonholed into using certain skills like PvP when playing without groups of idiots they would normally be able to avoid.

Right, because being sure to take the right skills/build for a given situation has never been part of the PvE game before. Nope, before this AI change you could use any build at all in any circumstance and have equal success.

This is just silly. Kudos to Anet for continuously updating the AI to provide more challenge. Better kiting would be nice, but this creates interesting new problems for PvE groups in the interim.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

13 Jan 2007 at 23:23 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

How exactly is an AI monk running in circles for five minutes whilst you play tic-tac-toe on its back with your sword beating anyone? It makes them easier to kill, not harder, a running monk isn't healing and is taking crits like mad.

No, that is wrong. Despite the fact that you get free critical hits kiting still reduces damage taken significantly. Even using a run skill you will be struggling to hit more than once every 4s if they aren't snared. If they dont kite they will get hit 4 times in that interval, and unless you are really unlucky, 4 hits(some of which may crit anyway) is more dmg than 1 guaranteed crit.

Kiting whilst snared is the other way around, it seriously increases damage taken.

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 00:35 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Kudos to Anet for continuously updating the AI to provide more challenge. Better kiting would be nice, but this creates interesting new problems for PvE groups in the interim.

Yeah, it actually makes them use skills they never looked at before. An ele with water skills(a lot of them slows down people), a ranger with [skill=text]Pin Down[/skill], a mesmer with [skill=text]Crippling Anguish[/skill], a warrior with [skill=text]Sprint[/skill] and or a knockdown skill, a Paragon with a [skill=text]Crippling Anthem[/skill], a Dervish with [skill=text]Aura Of Thorns[/skill] maybe.

As a Mesmer, I personally just like to use Backfire and let them kill themselves. If not, interrupt them to death.

There is a lot of ways to stop a kiting enemy, hell they even taught how to stop kiters in Factions. I wonder why they didn't supply similar tutorials in Nightfall?

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

14 Jan 2007 at 07:09 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckman Joney

The AI in NF is stupid..the medics just continuously run in circles and cause the utmost agitation!...It seems that the AI can somehow run faster than us and thus, we can't catch them...Like for instance:

Im doing the quest Following the Trail where you have to kill 6 grps of corsairs with 4...4 low lvld heroes...the corsairs continuously run in circles and have already caused me to try it for the 45th time! I mean what the heck! Couldnt they turn down the "smartness" of the AI's a little to save us the hassle of continuously running in circles to kill that ONE AI that needs to be killed?

First of all, welcome to Guild Wars.

What you have seen the AI doing is called "kiting." For a moment, reflect on how impossible it is for you to catch them. Maybe when you figure out what pvp is you will remember this day.

To stop kiting, do one of the following:

Bring a speed boost
Bring a snare (water hex or cripple)
Bring knockdown
Bring ranged damage
Bring Degen
Anticipate their pathing and move to where they will be going (in pvp you can only do this in random arenas. Everywhere else has smart players...sort of)
Do something to make them stop. For example, if you are chasing a monk, damage one of their allies.

Pwny Ride

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Aussieland

Prime Players Of [OSHA] ~ [dth] alliance. <3

Me/E

14 Jan 2007 at 09:13 - 51

lol this post brings back memories from presearing...

Hunting charr over the wall, and chasing those damn shamans in circles for about 3 minutes

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

14 Jan 2007 at 10:37 - 52

AI run forever is just rumor to be bug. Never happened to party where I was. Very likely people usually try to make example and give wrong image what actually happened eg. somebody might call 5 second kiting that they was running forever. AI kiting is still easy to fool. If you don't go to be fooled and hunt only that target down they don't gonna kite much.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Jan 2007 at 10:56 - 53

Two main reasons why I think the running AI is good, and why it's in place:

1) It's not perfect, no, but it's leaps and bounds better than the old AI that had squishes just stand there whilst getting pounded on.

2) It's step in the right direction for training players to become better and be able to make any transition from PvE to PvP, if they so choose. Either way, it will cause the player to (hopefully) think a bit more beyond the "C-space" mentality and come up with strategies.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

14 Jan 2007 at 11:08 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Two main reasons why I think the running AI is good, and why it's in place:

1) It's not perfect, no, but it's leaps and bounds better than the old AI that had squishes just stand there whilst getting pounded on.

2) It's step in the right direction for training players to become better and be able to make any transition from PvE to PvP, if they so choose. Either way, it will cause the player to (hopefully) think a bit more beyond the "C-space" mentality and come up with strategies.

So why 'prepare' PvE'ers for PvP, but not the other way around?

PvE and PvP should be seperated, they should NEVER have elements that makes a player want to play the other.

AI now just sucks, it's a friggin circus every time I wanna play a game of tag... errrr battle.

So I'm supposed to mess up my build and take skills just for the solely purpose of slowing the monks down? That's not that I call 'strategy'. It even killed my strategies.

Sure, for water eles spikers spiking is a normal thing - it's in their build, but as a warrior, it's hard to pull off. I'm now forced to use a sword cause I wanna cripple the friggin monk, since running skills only grant me about 1 attack, which will probably miss. It's not hard, but it's d***ed annoying cause now I gotta wait till Mehnlo kills the monk with his melee attacks -.-

Why not make the AI good instead of fools who only run away? I mean with this max damage weapons (note how any monster in Elona usually drops non max dmg white stuff), better skills and some more armor.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

14 Jan 2007 at 12:26 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

So why 'prepare' PvE'ers for PvP, but not the other way around?

PvE and PvP should be seperated, they should NEVER have elements that makes a player want to play the other.

AI now just sucks, it's a friggin circus every time I wanna play a game of tag... errrr battle.

So I'm supposed to mess up my build and take skills just for the solely purpose of slowing the monks down? That's not that I call 'strategy'. It even killed my strategies.

Sure, for water eles spikers spiking is a normal thing - it's in their build, but as a warrior, it's hard to pull off. I'm now forced to use a sword cause I wanna cripple the friggin monk, since running skills only grant me about 1 attack, which will probably miss. It's not hard, but it's d***ed annoying cause now I gotta wait till Mehnlo kills the monk with his melee attacks -.-

Why not make the AI good instead of fools who only run away? I mean with this max damage weapons (note how any monster in Elona usually drops non max dmg white stuff), better skills and some more armor.

Comeon, it is more realistic that they start kiting then that they can be squashed in favor of you. I found alot of other annoying AI, henches AND enemies not takling in consideration 3D effects like obstruction. They should definitely change that, so that hench and enemies alike change their postion towards their target in order to hit it instead of miss it. SHooting a rock doesnt make sense, but for now I will "Abuse" it when farming cause it makes my life a bit more easy.

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 14:09 - 56

Quote: 'It's step in the right direction for training players to become better and be able to make any transition from PvE to PvP, if they so choose. Either way, it will cause the player to (hopefully) think a bit more beyond the "C-space" mentality and come up with strategies.'

I do hope this isn't the attitude of all PvPers, lets break this statement down and try answer some of the points.

a) It's training players to make the transition from PvE to PvP.

No, no ,no, no.......I don't want to play PvP, I do not enjoy running around like an idiot for 20Mins, if you do, fine, but don't inflict this on me.
Also how is stupid running around like a headless chicken anything like controlled kiting?

b) It will cause players to think a bit more beyond the 'C-space' mentality and come up with strategies.

OK this is my first strategy - Don't take any melee classes into a mission.

As I said before 'make the environment more intelligent' I shall give a couple of examples:

1/ How does a large insect know to target a monk? But I could understand the panic running away in this instance. i.e. It hurts get away from the pain.

2/ Why would a human Monk run away in total panic rather than shutting down the treat (W/? or whomever is trageting him/her) and then continuing to do there job. i.e. healing his/her group?

This game is trying to do two things that don't go together, each time they try and make one side more like the other it annoys a large part of the community.

If you like to PvP great, enjoy a brilliant game but please don't look down your nose a people (like me) that want a different experience, PvE. Also never assume (infact this is good advise just left like that i.e. never assume) that the next move for most players is to move to PvP because it isn't.

sorry that was so long, rant over.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

14 Jan 2007 at 14:37 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verek

2/ Why would a human Monk run away in total panic rather than shutting down the treat (W/? or whomever is trageting him/her) and then continuing to do there job. i.e. healing his/her group?

explain me how a monk is gonna achieve that, else then by kiting?

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 14:55 - 58

Quote: 'explain me how a monk is gonna achieve that, else then by kiting?'

OK, what about 'Pacifism' for 18 seconds target fow cannot attack - I have a feeling that would be more usfull that blind panic.

or, Reversal of Fortune, or Sheild Guardian.

There are many skills that could be used, those are just of the top of my head.

What get to me is that we a are constantly told to 'think of a strategy' to counter the, so laughably called, 'improvements'.

Why should I waist my time countering idiotic behaviour, I spend most of my time trying to do this with my kids I don't want to have to do this in my leasure time.

JYX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

14 Jan 2007 at 15:05 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verek

OK, what about 'Pacifism' for 18 seconds target fow cannot attack - I have a feeling that would be more usfull that blind panic.

or, Reversal of Fortune, or Sheild Guardian.

There you have it, to all you monks out there: Bring pacifism. Spam Shield Guardian. Don't kite.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

14 Jan 2007 at 15:07 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

So I'm supposed to mess up my build and take skills just for the solely purpose of slowing the monks down? That's not that I call 'strategy'. It even killed my strategies.

Yes, if your strategy can't factor such things in, it is deficient and should be reworked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Sure, for water eles spikers spiking is a normal thing - it's in their build, but as a warrior, it's hard to pull off. I'm now forced to use a sword cause I wanna cripple the friggin monk, since running skills only grant me about 1 attack, which will probably miss. It's not hard, but it's d***ed annoying cause now I gotta wait till Mehnlo kills the monk with his melee attacks -.-

Try reading this thread. There are skills available to all melee classes/weapons to snare opponents. And if you only get 1 hit from your run skill, you need to invest more points in it's linked attribute. Most run skills will last around 8-10s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Why not make the AI good instead of fools who only run away? I mean with this max damage weapons (note how any monster in Elona usually drops non max dmg white stuff), better skills and some more armor.

Because making them run away IS making the AI good. Doing what you described only increases the amount of mindless grind required to kill something. Making the AI creatures have more and more armour doesn't stop a brain damaged goldfish killing them, it just takes longer.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

14 Jan 2007 at 15:12 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verek

Quote: 'explain me how a monk is gonna achieve that, else then by kiting?'

OK, what about 'Pacifism' for 18 seconds target fow cannot attack - I have a feeling that would be more usfull that blind panic.

or, Reversal of Fortune, or Sheild Guardian.

There are many skills that could be used, those are just of the top of my head.

What get to me is that we a are constantly told to 'think of a strategy' to counter the, so laughably called, 'improvements'.

Why should I waist my time countering idiotic behaviour, I spend most of my time trying to do this with my kids I don't want to have to do this in my leasure time.

Congrats. Funniest post of january so far.

Pacifism is worthless trash. Any AoE damage at all will almost certainly end it. There are these really cool things called hex removals too.
AND, even if pacifism WAS a sensible skill, are you telling me you would rather stand and look at the AI for 18s unable to do anything rather than chase it for maybe half that time and kill it?
Shield guardian is an even more silly suggestion, but we wont go into that.

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 15:25 - 62

Quote:

Congrats. Funniest post of january so far.

Pacifism is worthless trash. Any AoE damage at all will almost certainly end it. There are these really cool things called hex removals too.
AND, even if pacifism WAS a sensible skill, are you telling me you would rather stand and look at the AI for 18s unable to do anything rather than chase it for maybe half that time and kill it?
Shield guardian is an even more silly suggestion, but we wont go into that.

Well I'm happy I made you laugh,

The question was ''explain me how a monk is gonna achieve that, else then by kiting?'

They might not have been great ideas i.e. Pacifism....etc but my point was that there are alternatives to just headless chickening.

We are not talking about controlled kiting the A.I. just runs around like a lunatic and that is idiotic.

The point I'm trying to make is that there a many, many skill, spells...etc inbuilt into this game other than running around.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

14 Jan 2007 at 16:12 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verek

The point I'm trying to make is that there a many, many skill, spells...etc inbuilt into this game other than running around.

It is a monks job to prevent and heal damage taken by their party. The best way to avoid damage from melee classes is to run away.

And yes, there are indeed many skills and spells inbuilt into the game. The fact that over 5% of them are designed to prevent characters running should tell you something. It suggests to me that for every 20 skills in your party at least one should be a speedbuff, snare or KD. Thats 3 or 4 skills in a normal 8 man party, which is hardly going to ruin anyones master plan, and will dispatch any running AI with minimal fuss.

Steps Ascending

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Freelancing (Guildless)

14 Jan 2007 at 16:28 - 64

euh... I just don't get how a thread can run for more than 3 pages when it is as simple as "The reason why I should bring a snare"...

Yet some how these are the threads that goes for the longest behind the endless "What's-your-biggest-______-ever?-style".

Muk Utep

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

14 Jan 2007 at 17:11 - 65

Certain enemies seem to kite when it makes no sense, though. Last time I played through Factions, naga warriors on Shing Jea Island would often start running in large, endless circles as soon as pulled. Even at full health.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

14 Jan 2007 at 17:16 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Yes, if your strategy can't factor such things in, it is deficient and should be reworked.

Oh, so your saying I should just play the cookie cutter wars? I have my own build, not the standard skills required to normally fight the stupid AI these days. Well it's barely a fight anymore, but a pure chaotic friggin flying circus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Try reading this thread. There are skills available to all melee classes/weapons to snare opponents. And if you only get 1 hit from your run skill, you need to invest more points in it's linked attribute. Most run skills will last around 8-10s.

Yes there are skills available, but some people want to use the slots for something else that actually has a use in all times instead of situational times. In PvP, I guess you need cookie cutter builds there, but not in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

Because making them run away IS making the AI good. Doing what you described only increases the amount of mindless grind required to kill something. Making the AI creatures have more and more armour doesn't stop a brain damaged goldfish killing them, it just takes longer.

Making AI run away is NOT making them good, and I wonder what will last longer, attacking a target with more armor or chasing a monk for a friggin 10 minutes. Also, letting the monsters have more armor makes the battles FUN, and maybe even HARD instead of ANNOYING. This wasn't the problem in Tyria and Cantha, but some monsters in Elona seem to die way too easy. They could use a kind of buff.

Instead of running away which has no use at all - it's just more annoying. In PvP running might have it's uses, but in PvE it's just friggin worthless. Running for a firestorm is understandable, running for ANYTHING... it just takes longer to kill, that's it.

Alya

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European servers

RTFM

14 Jan 2007 at 17:27 - 67

Quote:

Well it's barely a fight anymore, but a pure chaotic friggin flying circus

Quoted for truth!

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 17:27 - 68

I think I might concede that this could what type of style of game you want to play.

My big problem is that AI stands for Artificial Intelligence not Artificial Stupidity, try chasing a 'run away' into the side of a hill or other obstacle and it will try and burrow through rather than going around, how can this be 'Intelligent'

But once again maybe it is a style of game type of thing and maybe I should look else ware.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Jan 2007 at 17:43 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Yes there are skills available, but some people want to use the slots for something else that actually has a use in all times instead of situational times. In PvP, I guess you need cookie cutter builds there, but not in PvE.

Read: I want to take in any skills and own the crap out of everything.

Noone's forcing you to take a particular build, hell, noone's forcing you to take snares, speed buffs or knockdowns. You can still win without them, it just takes longer. It's like running into Hell's Precipice with all fire skills and damage, complaining that they're strong against the element.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

14 Jan 2007 at 17:56 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Read: I want to take in any skills and own the crap out of everything.

Noone's forcing you to take a particular build, hell, noone's forcing you to take snares, speed buffs or knockdowns. You can still win without them, it just takes longer. It's like running into Hell's Precipice with all fire skills and damage, complaining that they're strong against the element.

Hmmm not really. Hell's Precicipe is only a certain area, and there is a skill called Winter that is used by about everyone there. That's called cookie cutter. For 1 mission, it's not so bad, but the kiting monks are everywhere. So we just have to alter our builds and limit our options if we don't want to be at disadvantage? Welcome to the Clone Wars ~.~

Oh, and another thing. Titans don't run around like circus clowns when I have Fire magic (well except when I use firestorm :P). Every battle I go into is a pain cause I get to chase the monks all the time.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Jan 2007 at 18:04 - 71

Let me get this straight, you have no problems bringing in a cookie cutter build to deal with certain areas, yet have every problem with sacrificing one skill to deal with kiting?

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 18:07 - 72

Having thought about it for a bit this is what I wnat when playing a melee character:

Start of conflict - Two sets of Warrior eyeballing each other, smashing their swords on shield, chanting, glaring and generally getting ready to get it on.

Support boys behind preparing to inflict there own kind of mayhem into the preceding,, the crackle of manna being readied, spells on the tip of there tongs, ready to unleash hell.

Phase one: ’CHARGE’ two set of (by now insanely aggressive) melee boy (or girls) clash, oaths are sworn, battle is joined.

What I don’t want is two set of Warriors calmly identifying the Monks then chasing them with speed buffs and every one else running around like idiots.

Gizmo Loco

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

14 Jan 2007 at 18:10 - 73

Wait - you're complaining that the AI is smart?

Think of it this way. Walking along the street, some huge guy comes along and punches you in the face. You gonna stand there and let him pummel away, or are you gonna run? He might still catch you up and hit you again, but thats 2 hits instead of the 20 you would get by standing still. The same applies here -if you are the AI monk and some huge warrior comes along and whacks you with a hammer, you're gonan want to run away and get hit less.

Y O U Lo Se

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Wee Free Men[凸〇一〇]

Mo/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 18:14 - 74

Kiting monks even makes it easier in PvE. Put 1 hero on the monk, he keeps kiting, then kill the rest and then snare the monk and gg. Much faster then monks who are not kiting.

Alya

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European servers

RTFM

14 Jan 2007 at 18:42 - 75

Quote:

Walking along the street, some huge guy comes along and punches you in the face.

Huh? Any appeals to real life situations in regards to fantasy computer games are totally ridiculous. Your example is flawed even more because it takes a solo-vs-solo situation, not a band vs band situation. In your case, much closer would be this picture: two teams meet, and the huge guys from both sides, instead of protecting the squishies in their teams, rush towards the weakest guys of the opposite side who start running in circles around the rest of the teams who randomly pummel each other.

Smart? As if! My kitten is smarter than that.

But it's totally, absolutely annoying.

Verek

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

RAVN

N/Me

14 Jan 2007 at 18:44 - 76

Quote:

Think of it this way. Walking along the street, some huge guy comes along and punches you in the face. You gonna stand there and let him pummel away, or are you gonna run? He might still catch you up and hit you again, but thats 2 hits instead of the 20 you would get by standing still. The same applies here -if you are the AI monk and some huge warrior comes along and whacks you with a hammer, you're gonan want to run away and get hit less.

No, I don't agree not with your logic. If we were playing a game that you walked the streets and Randomly attacked a memeber of the public then yes I could possibly understand some of the behaviour, I.e. random kiting , but we’re not, this game is set in a fantasy world where all hell has broken loose, every thing and everyone one is expecting conflict.

IMMORTAlMITCH

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Straight Outta Kamadan [KMD]

Me/

14 Jan 2007 at 19:24 - 77

God forbid people actually thinking about what skills they bring in PvE for once!

If your MM/Echo SS/(Echo) Fire Nuker/BP Ranger has trouble with this perhaps you should consider changing your build shocking as that might sound...

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

14 Jan 2007 at 19:48 - 78

The only AI change I've seen is that mobs well outside my aggro bubble and the bubbles of my NPC's have been running towards me. I went to the same place 3 times to make sure I wasn't imagining it. I used Koss to aggro the first group and then called him back to me. The second group shows up halfway through the fight with the first. They stop on the very edge of the map and then suddenly start rushing towards the battle!! No matter how far back I went the second group still found me. It wasn't a big deal at first. But then when it happened in more than one area I became angry. Its like the AI can only move in one direction now: towards me and its annoying as heck.

As for monks kiting...it doesn't matter. I usually just cast Fairthenheartness on them and leave them to Smite Hex or Convert Hex or whatever while Koss and Devona pound away at them. Monks are usually my first exploitable corpse in a battle.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

14 Jan 2007 at 20:08 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Let me get this straight, you have no problems bringing in a cookie cutter build to deal with certain areas, yet have every problem with sacrificing one skill to deal with kiting?

Yes, bringing Winter for only 1 mission isn't a problem for me. But to always have 3 of the same skills (Res, Hamstring/Cripple Slash and a run skill to catch up with the monk to hit him) just sucks. Also, kiting isn't for 1 area only, it's in the entire game.

Now I only have 5 skills left, and I'm stuck with swordsmanship cause axes can't cripple.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Jan 2007 at 20:12 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Yes, bringing Winter for only 1 mission isn't a problem for me. But to always have 3 of the same skills (Res, Hamstring/Cripple Slash and a run skill to catch up with the monk to hit him) just sucks. Also, kiting isn't for 1 area only, it's in the entire game.

Now I only have 5 skills left, and I'm stuck with swordsmanship cause axes can't cripple.

Bull's strike is a wonderful knockdown for kiting foes, also does some decent damage too. I've never seen anything that could even replace sprint/rush on my warrior if I decide to run it.

Also, GOD FORBID YOU HAVE TO BRING RES ON YOUR BAR