The AI is rediculous

Bull's Charge doesn't give a speed boost so I'll end up following him without hitting him. Unless I take a running skill which still gets me to 3 standard skills.
IMO, only skill that should be on everyones skillbar should be res, and maybe even without that, professions should be able to function normally. And my warrior isn't build to be a kiting clown.

GJ A-net, better make a crippling profession in chap 4 -.-'

Actually, Bull's Charge does give you a speed boost. You're thinking of Bull's Strike, which you can use very well with sprint or rush. That's just two skills.

God, people are so bad at this game, so lazy, so desperately in need of a clue.

Kiting mobs are perfectly fine, because it's the most perfectly sensible thing to do if you're getting hacked and slashed to pieces. If you're the kind of warrior that likes to sit on his Dolyak sig all day and wait for the monsters to come to him to get butchered, guess your time's up. If you're one of those warriors that put 8 different attack skills on their bar with zero utility, guess your time is up too. This game is meant to be, and should always aim to remain challenging. In 95% of the PvE experience, it utterly fails to be so. And here you are, trying to get rid even of these last traces of challenge from it.

If you're melee, and you need to get something's that running to die, here's the options available for you:

1. Bring a speed buff (e.g. rush, sprint, charging strike, enraging charge, dash, any of the million dervish enchants and stances that make you run like you're wearing Adidas).
2. Bring KDs (e.g. any of the hammer ones, bull's strike, shove, horns of the ox).
3. Bring snares (e.g. YAA, crippling sweep, axe rake, hamstring, caltrops).
4. Bring shadowstep skills (e.g. death's charge, shadow of haste, AOD, shadow prison, and so on and on).
5. If you have none of those, you can always just count on your team's midline to use ranged skills to take them down (you weren't be trying to do this with 6 warriors and 2 monks by any chance, were you?)

PvE is so easy because you can prepare ahead for everything the monsters will be able to throw at you, since their skillbars are the same, and so are their tactics. Now, if even though you know they might try to run around you still don't make sure your team can rely on any of the above options, well, you don't deserve to beat those mobs, simple as that; you're bad at the game and you shouldn't get to finish it. It's like in any FPS. If you're counting on finishing the game with that pocket knife or that water gun, what right do you have to whine about them being insufficient to win? Bring out the chainsaws, bring out the machine guns, bring out the rocket launchers. As the game gets harder, you also need to get better, you need to select more powerful weapons (skills), you need to learn different tactics. Otherwise they might as well just delete everything after presearing, and we can go back there killing level 5 charr forever, right?

Do you remember the gear trick? How the mobs would just pile up on the tank, and you could just nuke and SS and barrage and trap them to death, and they would stubbornly just remain there to die, still trying to hack away at that tank? Well, that's where it seems you're trying to take this game again, back to mindless idiotic AI. If you just want to destroy things with no brain, grab your wallet, find the closest store, buy a kilo of lemons, take them home, place them on the table, then proceed to squish them into a pulp. Feel free to boast about how awesome you are while you do that. Who needs to kill charr in a videogame, when you can kill lemons that don't kite IRL!

History tells us that armour and weapons went hand in hand, so we had very heavily armour knights, with the opposition having very heavy weapons to counter this.

Then, times moved on and we get Rapiers with lightly armoured combatants and so on…etc

What we don’t have is the warrior class designed to kill squishes, now we might cry;’ but this is game and not the real world,’ but for me there must be some basis in history to keep the illusion alive.

Clutching at straws tbh. BTW there were no historical basis for throwing fireballs.

Holy crap guys, look how awesome I am

lol @ the people that can't deal with kitting AI. There are hundreds of skills to deal with kitting foes. People need to drop the "Tank" mentality and start dealing some damage.

Wow. I can't believe this is even a debate. Complaining that you can no longer bring 8 attack skills? What a shame. I hope Anet arent going to make it so hard as to actually have to bring UTILITY skills. God forbid having to bring a paragon wih crippling anthem instead of his Deep Wound spear attack. God forbid bringing Pin Down instead of Power Shot. Or even - god forbid having to change secondary proffession to something more useful than Mending!

Seriously. PvE is so retarded as far as builds go. You could run 8 capture signets and still beat the game with 7 henchies. Heck, I virtually did with my paragon. 4 cap sigs and a hard res I never needed, plus 1 spear attack and 2 shouts. So for those complaining that you can no longer bring a retard bar - stop complaining. Get a good skillset. Get good at the game. Don't complain when an enemy acts intelligently. It's like the Wammo's in RA - "omfg noob runenr stop running away" - yes, because I'm going to stand still just to be nice to you aren't I?

Funny i always thought griefers and runners were hated in PvP, Now you guys expect people to put up with it in PvE. Lets get it right for once, not fun in PvP sure isnt fun in PvE, but if this is what u call kiting. You need a new brain. I had a good pix of it but deleted it, so ill describe your so called kiting behave your.

Example 1- As your group approaches an enemy group 2 aggro bubbles away there monk decides its time to kite straight to your group while leaving there group behind.

Example 2- As your group engages another group there monk kites past your group leaving there group on the other side with no healling.


Yeap if you call that kiting you have problems. This is what the So-Called kiting we are seeing.

English please?

And no. Kiting is not griefing. Griefing is 8 skills designed to make you run around and live until people quit out, while doing 0 damage. Kiting is simply movement for the mitigation of damage used between casting spells or attacking.

Funny there was a call made at the start of this thread for someone to make a video of this so called retarded AI behaviour. Yet no one did, the vid posted is of a Guild runing around their guild hall to the Benny Hill theme, but no vids of this behaviour, that if it is so prevalent should be easy to catch on video.
So lets see it.

Ah, you do realise that so called griefing is only really in RA where you got no clue what team you may get right? And if you don't bring a snare/degen/speed buff than the chances of someone in your team having one is close to zero. In actual pvp/gvg you'll find that if you do no damage and can only run, that we'll kill all your team mates and then you'll find a war train on your ass, all with speed buffs.

And as for pve warriors losing there precious 1 skill slot for sprint or being forced to go sword for crip, well axe can crip, and there are water ele spells that can snare just as well with like close to no points in water at all. And you don't even need to do that. Bring Devona, charge used to be the most useless pve warrior elite unless you were running, well its real useful now.
And you shouldn't even need that. I'm a warrior, my heroes are warriors and I never leave home without Devona. No pve caster should live for 20 secs if he's targeted. If he does, then maybe you may want to change your attribs and your heroes so they have more than 9 in there weapon attribs. No pve primary warrior should have less than 14 in their weapon, if you don't then you got no one to blame that you can't kill them.

No need to accuse the people who don't like the current kiting AI in being retarded, incompetend and unable to devise a functional skillbar.

I am a good player. I am a good warrior, ranger, monk, elementalist and mesmer. Haven't played enough with other classes to say that I am good at them. But when I play my classes, I am good.

I just hate this kiting. OK? And my sincere hatred does not have anything in common with my ability or inability to cope with it. I HATE IT, just that.

I find the new kiting a challenge, and it forces me to break out of tried and tested builds and start experimenting with new skills... kinda breathes new life into things, y'know?

However, I absolutely hate it when a henchie kites away mid-battle and manages to aggro yet another nearby group. Being able to flag them helps, but it stil happens from time to time.

The perma-aggro behaviour of some mobs, or the thing where they somehow spot you from across the other side of the map and come running? Could do without that.

I think many people just ask the question where the game they so loved that first year went.

YOU NEED MORE NUKING.

If your good, you wouldnt need to worry about it.

Example bar you use on your warrior?

i like the kiting, i'm used to it anyway, i spend most of my time chasing people in GvG i just bring a snare and a speedboost, and i'm set.

As long as pve monks don't start using return and stuff, i'm not gonna complain (and even if they did, i don't think i'd complain )

If the friggin medic is running around it makes him pretty hard to nuke since projectiles miss him and he runs out of AoEs. My approach is to set up my heroes with snares, for example:

Margrid: Crippling Shot / Pin Down
Melonni: Aura of Thorns
Zhed: Ice Spikes / Deep Freeze
Norgu: Imagined Burden / Shared Burden
Acolyte Jin: Pounce (my Jin has a pet - Margrid it set up as interrupt, generally)

Perhaps having a hero go X/A and using Siphon Speed... there are lots to choose from.

These are a must for the bonus on Moddock Crevice. If the stupid medic can't move it's time for him to learn the true meaning of the word "PWND".

I'm sorry you consider a flatbow's arcing shot and firestorm to be nukes then...

Use mesmer domination skills. Use simple fire nukes (meteor, fireball, Searing Flames). Use just about anything - the NPCs do not have the ability to outheal even the most marginal of damage.

I haven't noticed the kiting at all - I take aggro (while henching) with my mesmer, target the 'healer' mobs, and blow them up. Nightfall especially brings ridiculous amounts of damage capability with new skills.

Hmmm, well there are so many ways around this, that I dunno where to begin...

My opinion 1st: current AI is "A Good Thing" (tm)

I'll be frank, I don't load my bar with skills to deal with kiting, in fact, more often than not, I don't run a single skill on my bar that will let me catch the enemy monks. It's far easier to not chase them and have ranged support blow them away while you deal with enemy units that would prove a threat to your squishies.

Oh, uh... ...I don't think I've ever come across a statement that contradicted itself more than this does... Well, maybe it doesn't contradict itself, but chasing a monk endlessly is the polar opposite of this.

As for 'tank' mentality, I don't know. The flaw in the tactics of many people here is that they go for the monk themselves, which isn't productive. The easiest way to achieve what I outlined above is simply to lock the damage dealing ranged heroes on to the monk and let them blast him. this frees you to go after the more dangerous squishies, who are less inclined to leg it as soon as you get in stabbing distance. And I know all about stabbing, oh yes...

Anyway, I won't call anyone stupid or anything like that, but I can deal with the enemy AI with a warrior build that includes 4 attack skills, 3 pet skills, (Heal as One FTW,) and a Resurrect. And thats a fact.

Anything that makes the AI is harder to kill is fine by me. Hell, I'm in favor of making more monsters with monster only skills that do stupid overpowered things like remove all enchants from everyone and blackout skills at the same time. The game needs more challenge.

You don't understand, young Padawan. YOU NEED MORE NUKING! More Nuking = More Win, that is the universal rule of PvE.

They run out of Meteor Shower? Nuke them in the face with Searing Flames or whatever! Projectiles miss? Liquid Flame/Rodgort's Invocation! Snares are overrated; utility is overrated; the only thing you need to do in PvE is crush their resistance and healing capability with MORE NUKING. Kiting might save them from those ridiculous warriors, but not from burnination action!

QFT more nuking please!

Yeah why nuke the monk if u can kill the closest one in seconds

The only bad thing about the AI, is the new feature of "run away when we're getting attacked by the good guys".

It a good idea, but when the creature runs off for a good mile and your AI chases them right into another mob its too much.

Not very clever to bring up corsairs as an example for retarded AI, corsairs are annoying pieces of ****, but they ar DELIBERATELY programmed to be. If I do missions with corsairs in them they always act funny and kite away from you. Locking heroes on their medics isn't very smart as the heroes will start to follow them behind enemy lines and get pwned.

Going straight for the enemy monks isn't always the most clever thing to do in the first place. All your melee runs past the enemy melee and the enemy melee goes straight for your squishies. Believe me ive seen it happen many times since I only play ranged/caster units (me playing monk: melee rushes for healers, melee gets out of range, splut->ZOMG HEAL ME U NOOB MONK). If you encounter a mob just outdamage the AI monks and save hem for last. Outdamaging isn't hard with an 8 person party size, just focus fire .

Just nuke more, no problem, more nuking=win.

Dead mobs don't do dmg, so nuking is key.

Do not make the medic your first target. And if he does run, stop attacking for a second .. he will stop. Then attack all at once

How is that "stupid"? It's a simple form of kiting, which is something many human spellcaster do when being attacked and chased. It's actually pretty smart. At least it seems to work fine against you.

First of all running round and round in circles is 'stupid' as is running into a cliff/wall and try to run though is as apposed to around it.

Please also don't assume that we cannot 'cope' with this behaviour, I can only speak for myself, but I don't like it, it makes this game less enjoyable for me, it hasn't made it any harder it just takes a bit longer, thats all.

The game has changed since I first started playing (about one and a half years ago) and for me it has got worse, for some it has got better.......oh well that's life.

What is MOST annoying(and the only thing I hate dealing with)...is those rigged 10x HP 10x armor half hex duration cheating MONK bosses with fast cast spells that just won't stop running. Snare worked to bring his HP down to 70% then when the snare wears off twice as fast (thx to CHEAT) the boss cast two spells with CHEATING attribute and heal back to full -.-. Then when we finally managed to disable a few of its spell...it managed to kite into 3 other mobs causing our warriors to aggro them . Then we have to deal with the extra aggro while the disabled monk boss spells gets re-enabled again......repeat...

Thankfully NF added Heroes, so that If I see a monk boss I just go afk and come back 10 min later....

You of course realize that if you're chasing them, they're obviously not doing their job of healing. So take advantage of that. Either that or just stop chasing them with your melee char and let your ranged attackers kill him.

Gogo aka ultimate elementalist fanboy.

Sadly for once you are actually right. 2 Searing Flames elementalists and norgu pretty much annihilate everything NF has to offer.

As much as I see what you're saying...Searing Flames...wait...ANYTHING in the fire line is so so SO boring. Personally I get immense pleasure out of stopping that pesky medic moving anywhere...and yes I know SF will probably kill him in one hit but it really is dull. More people should play Earth... Eruption + Dragon's Stomp = teh win.

Now Norgu...He truly is "teh win"!

Anyone else notice the lack of understanding in all these dozens of AI threads? Everytime someone brings up their dislike or hatred for the AI these days, supporters jump in and begin to annalyse "your skill bar" and offer unwanted advise, "builds" and sollutions to work around bad coding... I have to ask why?

I've not seen a single request for builds, advise, or "how do I stop X from running and fighting back?".

The problem isn't that the AI is hard, easy or difficult to cope with (at least for me). Rather the AI is less fun than it used to be. I find it actually a real bore and rather than a "sweet I just took down that massive [insert mob name]" I find myself just releasing a /sigh after each fight. It's just not fun anymore; and the run-around AI is why.

Why is it less fun for me? Again, for you build advisors: it's not an issue with them running, it's an issue that because the run-around AI changed all mobs to now act like each other.

There are hundreds of mob races in GW, each should act differently. With the addition of the Benny Hill AI, all races act the same in battle... which is just like the Zaishen bots. After clearing two or three zones in PvE - you've now fought the exact same battle (maybe with a few different skills) time and time again. It's BORING; not fun.

On last time, for you build advisors: it's not about it being hard or having issues (for me anyway), it's dead boring now.

For those of us that do not like the AI now; this "issue" has been noted time and time again. It would seem Anet has no intention to fix it, so unless you are really determined to keep getting flamed by flameboys or having the topic go from AI issues to your skill bar, I would advise dropping it and moving on to another game. Talk to your friends and see if they will follow you to another game. If enough people stop buying GW chapters perhaps Anet will remove the fingers from their ears and fix the run-abouts. Perhaps they will listen to dollars, cause they are obviously not listening to the players complaints (which are still running rampant all over the net in many different forums).

Last word is all yours build advisors, I'll not visit this thread again to see what magical "work around build" you've come up with this week...

and from all those races, only the humans (kournan/pirates) kite when you directly to their casters. they have a different "AI" as players requested from some time ago.

all other mobs, the bug monks, the heket monks, the tormented monks, the margonite monks, they all stay in place and only move if there is a firestorm or sandstorm on them.

so no, not all the mob races run around.

and the reason why players annalyze skill bar and give builds is because with a good skillbar, you can breeze through any area of the game, my warrior, assasin and ranger, they all have a permanent crippling skill, even if i use it rarely, the kiting ai is not a problem for me.

I think the biggest issue with the AI right now is my levl 16 Dunkoro RUNNING from the lvl 4 Skale. Although he runs from anything that attacks him, this one sticks out in my mind as the most annoying. It's really annoying when you're fighting corsairs and he starts running and you get nailed because he's not healing you, he's running from a lvl 8 warrior when he's 16 and can take it.

There is an issue there people. I don't mind hunting the enemy monks and casters down with my dervish. I mind it when my monks are running aorund like chickens with their heads cut off over a creature that can do 6 damage a hit max to them.

That's bad AI.

You missed the point. It's not about hardness. It's about how friggin annoying the kiting is. Only thing kiting does is give us the option to 1). Screw our build over cause we need to stop casters or 2). Waste another 10 minutes every battle chasing the monk.

Kiting does NOT make the AI 'better' or 'smarter'. It just annoys the **** out of me. Saying that you can just bring a snare or KD is ****, I had my own builds, I had skills I want to take, but no, my builds got screwed over and I'm stuck with 3 skills that are permanently on my skill bar, and I can't even play axe. (Since heroes aren't doing anything against kiting, instead, they're too busy doing it theirselves).

I don't know what A-net tried to do when making monsters kite, but it's nothing more than a pain in the ***. Instead of trying to make a bloody chaos during every battle, they could do something else instead, like make the AI unpredictable, or just give them max dmg weapons. (No, the bosses who strike for 500 damage don't need a buff, but normal monsters do).

Heck when I wanna play PvE, I wanna kill them monsters, I don't wanna waste my time chasing some clowns with sticks. Neither do I want to completely change my playstyle just to stop the clowns with sticks.

And about the tanking: Good times, why was it changed again? AI is there to be killed, wether it's quick or slow.

I'm glad I don't pvp....

I agree...The AI is so retarded.For instance. Monsters run away.
Wait im not done. yet.

"Come back monsters so i can kill you!" 25% health go away I cant heal!

Slat and you're dead. Failed a mission cause the AI script is completely and utterly pathetic. Given up on Guild Wars. Giving it a 5 month break until A-Net fixes this annoying thing or I'll just stop playing altogether.

I mean you cant go anywhere without fighting your way and end up dying anyway and I agree with the stupid Kournans..Priests and ritulists are running away now. *sigh gettin sick of it.