General Feedback - My thoughts to A-Net - Long-Time Player (WPE) comments welcome!

Kakumei,

Thank you for clarifying your earlier post. Your previous post was vague, and I did miss the concept you were trying to convey. You feel that the system is fine as it is, and therefore we know your stand on the matter.

I have already stated the reasons for my opinion... that there are things that should be changed.

For those that do not agree with Kakumei, do we have a counterpoint?

i agree with you 100% chet.

I still love Prophecies and i think is still the best all around chapter. The different environments made it amazing. they way people just formed groups to explore areas. places where a path leads that have no quests or cities, like in the maguma jungle after the blood and stone quest i think it was, where you could follow this place that led no where, but the scenery was just amazingly breathtaking. i miss the snow capped mountains with frozen lakes and green valleys next to them. Im sick of the one scenery campaigns. Facitons was way to much city and not enough green, and there was no snow except in shing jea. In Elona what happened to a jungle?? any oasis's around.. no its pure sand and sand and more sand. Gold is pretty big in africa and yet theres no mines around? the same monsters and creatures throuhgout the entire game in Nightfall and Factions.

Misisons and quests arnt challanging anymore in NIghtfall. Factions at leasts had slightly challanging missions but nothing compared to some missions in Prophecies where everyone was stuck looking for a way to win like THunderhead keep, and the ring of Fire Chain. go to missions like Abbadons mouth now and there almost impossible because no one is there anymore. i cant hench it with my mesmer, and will probably have to just go to elona to grind up heros in order to beat profecies again, unless some guildies help me. i miss CHallanging quests the Defend Ascalon after the Ring of Fire. 4 people taking on a huge amount of high level char. it tooke me 3 secondary class changes and about 10 tries with my friends to come up with a build able to win. u can hero/henchway almost everything now. You can easily get through all of Kourna with just 3 heros and youself, mabye 1 hench healer. I did it myself to have a challange and get some good runes and inscriptions which i never seem to get. In vabbi where i currenlty am, I'm doing the same thing, except i have to have that 1 extra healer henchie instead of just three heroes and me. if i had a full 8 then it would be way to easy and pose no challenge. Killing the Drought with 3 heroes and another healer proved very interesting. thats the only way PvE is challenging at all anymore for me.

IM sick of farming builds of like 3-5 ppl that have a certain skill setup with certain professions just to get the best drops, like 5 man oro farming, and all the Tombs groups now. greens are farmed like hell and are so common now everybody has at least 1, if not more than 1. The introduction of the green item also destroyed the economy. the people that got the first green ran like wild to sell it for outrageous prices and are now uber rich. I think theres an even bigger economy gap in GW than in RL. about 2% with 750 plat or more, (mabye a little off, not sure exaclty), and like 80% between 0 and 50 plat. and the rich just get richer. I seem to spend every available piece of platinum just to unlock all the skills. I love the way Prophecies incorperated skill learning by quests. now i dont have any money to spare to get NF armor so i can put inscriptions on them. I would rather have about half the skills available in each campagin to learn and you can buy the other half from a skill trainer.

I dont like how GW is turning out now and am hoping that they spend a little more time on the next chapter to make it good actually.

I guess you ignored all those quests helpfully labeled [Difficulty: Master].

Not sure about Nightfall as i didn't buy it but isn't Masters obtained according to how fast you complete a mission?

They have quests given by NPCs labelled "Difficulty: Master" for particualrily hard quests, normally involving hordes of monster spawns attacking you with little break.

i havnt beaten nightfall yet, so i dont really know about the back high end part but so far ive been unimpressed. and im truly unimpressed by Factions.

I agree totally with the OP - if this is the direction that guild wars is taking... they might as well take the entire thing offline and make it a single-player game like Oblivion or Neverwinter Nights. What's the point of trying to sell this as an online game when everybody just sits in the district and plays by themselves with the AI.

Heroes should be limited to 1... as in Diablo II - you have 1 hero to work with.... not an entire team of them.

Time for my somewhat random 2 cents on this issue. I know EXACTLY what you mean, when someone said that it felt weird to see a mission district 1 with absolutely nobody spamming for missions. There are several reasons I occasionally like to play with other random people, and they are:
1) People sometimes use intelligent builds that I've never thought of using or thought I didn't like and they demonstrate how good/bad they are.
2) Heroes/henchmen can't talk to you/make lame jokes/call you a noob.
3) I actually kinda miss the "W/MO with Heeling Honds/mending LFGGGG" because you could take that as a kind of "challenge" mission to see if you were good enough to get that team through.
4) Other people add variety to the standard profession layout I use when I use heroes, because I'm too lazy to fully equip all my heroes with builds and what not, and it's way easier to spend 15 mins and make a different build for me than it is to take 40 mins to make a different build for me and 3 heroes when I want to mix it up a bit. Yes, I'm one of "those guys" who, even when he finds a good build, then goes on to make some other totally random weirdness just to see how it works, and occasionally blows up his own party because of it (Pestilence/Toxicity for example).

Long story short, I miss the random people who (for me) added spice and variety to this game. Come back, PuGers, come back!

Thank you Domino. That was another of my ideas as well. I originally thought that Heros would be just like that. You would get 1 companion to go with you through the game, whom you could change out, but never more than 1 at a time.


I did them. Been there. Done that. Yawned my way through it. More monsters does not mean more excitement.
To me, it's how you fight, not how many you fight, that makes for great gaming.


Just on a side note: I did bonus for Dunes of Dispair tonight with full PUG groups...and it was great. Better than when we took the blasted heros. We didnt get it on the first try, but we did get it....and had a lot of fun doing it.

I only oplayed for one day in the WPE, but I feel that the OP has brought some real good points that I feel the same about. I took the time to read his post fully to make sure of what he was saying and it makes sence to me. If the next chapter doesn't knock my socks into next year then it may be the last chapter I buy. I have literly gone back to starting a Warrior in "gasp" Pre-Searing. Not for a title, not for glory, but to enjoy the game. I ahve several lvl 20 characters and have finished NightFall with one character. Where has the teamwork and comradery gone? Out the window I think. The hero's were a good Idea but they should be limited to only 1 spot on the team thats it. I do not PVP or GVG at all I realy do not like it and would rather be exploring finding new areas to marvel at and get teh old jaw to drop. Tyria did that for me, Cantha did that somewhat, what happened to Kourna? Nuclear war. I want to see new and exciting things again not the repeat of the same old sand. Those are my feelings on it.

Mega Mouse

I would like to add another factor to this, even though I don't use heroes and henchmen they are good for most players who always get rejected by some PuGs because of their profession. mostly assassins, mesmers and dervishes. so heroes are a godsend for those people.

Mouse I don't entirely agree with you. I think the teamwork and camaraderie has just been given a new dimension. I know that many times I'll join a party and the first thing that happens is we try to figure out who has good heros and we cooperate with hero builds to form a more effective party. This is particularly good when monks are being a little too uppity or difficult to find. Although if you ever want to team up and just go exploring add one of those character Id's under my name to your F list and give me a buzz. If I'm not busy I'll roll out with you for the hell of it. I'm particularly enjoying exploring with my Dervish right now since he can handle himself pretty well in any campaign setting and just about any area in those campaigns. He's just fun.

@grottoftl Yeah I'm not down with profession hate. I love my Mesmer and I guarantee you you won't find anyone better for those tricky bosses than my mesmer who can drop 15 degen on a boss in less than 2 seconds. Dervishes too. I have had to fight to get into groups with my dervish and I have no idea why. My dervish needs little monk maintenance, is almost always the last one standing when I do get into groups, and saves a lot of squishy butt by keeping enemies unable to effectively attack. Assassins are also so nasty now with the new buffs and skills from Nightfall that I still have a hard time believing people don't see the merits of them anymore.

Limiting the scope of a discussion is fine, it is an act designed to bring attention to a relatively small but important aspect of discussion.

I am a disgruntled E3E/WPE player myself. I have 7,200 hours on one of my two accounts [while alot were afk, alot were not].

First off, it is impossible for any modern game, of any model, to hold my attention forever. As the complexity of a game increases so does your chances to become disenfranchised with it. I did expect more of GW, which might be my fault.

=== Community Relations

Listening to, and believing, the things which Gaile says will make you disgruntled. I have a clear memory of Gaile describing the 'certain' likelyhood that reconnects will be in the game pre-Prophecies launch, and an auction house will follow. Countless other things are tantalizingly close to being lies.

The Scribe is an elaborate insult. Not only has he gotten specific quantitative things wrong in his postings, but they could have just as eaily been written by a literal carebear. I PvE, almost to the exclusion of PvP, and between the Scribe's random-acts-of-kindness and Gaile's cutesy-nigh-ditzy-act I am left apprehensive about how seriously they take themselves.

This may or may not be thier fault, but having seen the development of GW's community relations staff, I have not been impressed.

=== Favor - broken by design

I am amazed that this remained in the game, to be honest. It is amazing to see how easily people will allow one sector of the game to dominate (in the past) or influence (since the release of other 'high end' PvE gameplay) how the rest of the player base spends their time.

I remember once before Sorrow's Furnace release I tried to organize a UW clearing with my guild, spent a whole two weeks working out schedules from players around the world. We had a 6 hour window on Saturday, and a 4 hour window on the next Sunday, in which we could start the UW (this involving some of our eastern-hemisphere players loosing sleep). Power Of My Rangers held the Halls the entire time, and we were all on American servers.

After this frustration, I begged Gaile to have the mechanic changed, and was merely told that I should have used that team to go and play HA instead.

Gaile, and ANet, I dont want to play HA. Trying to turn the PvE game into a naive's PvP tutorial is foolish.

=== Bots and Memory Intrusion

Guild Wars does not scan for memory intrusions. You can write complex bots that literally read information directly from the game client, and manipulate their internal functions. This is laughable.

Trying to ban bots while leaving by far the single largest bot-abused exploit open is absurd.

With this and the lawsuit pending against ANet's parent company by a former employee, accusing them of unethical practices involving the intentional promotion of bots and banning of legitimate players that complain about this, I am left speechless.

Oh, did I mention that these sorts of bots allowed you to cheat in PvP too? Interupting 1/2 cast skills with Psychic Distraction is amazing fun, especially if you do it while in the middle of fixing yourself a sandwhich.

=== Content

GW is a game reportedly designed to be played by a casual gamer. The unfortunate aspect of this is that the game is too complicated for a casual player to really do that with any success, and too simplistic for the dedicated players!

While learning the sheer 1000+ skills that GW has is a steep learning curve in itself, after you have done that and mastered the game mechanics, what is left? Practice practice practice (guild rank, hero rank, etc) in PvP, or grind grind grind (FoW armor, greens, skill points, etc) in PvE.

Unfortunately, for someone who has completed the plotline, all quests, tried their hand at PvP, and all elite missions, there is nothing to do. This actually doesnt take as much time as you might think to achieve, either. I have been playing sporadically since I got NF in November, and have already completed NF in its entirety on 3 (very soon to be 4) characters.

Prophecies was a wasteland when it came to quests, Factions introduced grind as neccessary if you wanted to play the elite missions and Nightfall finally introduced a raid-like environment. Not what I really expected from GW way back when, which might be my fault...

But, remembering those NPC's, which I knew must have originally been designed as part of unmade-quests, were removed, I begin to think it might not be my fault. Look to the UW armor crafter, which was never properly implimented and quickly removed, or the various NPC's in FOW which dont even have dialog to see a modern-day version of this.

=== Weekends

Woo. Double scroll drops. Woo.

Are you trying to be patronizing?

=== Skills

I know that no game can be perfect. I know that no game can ever be balanced, without being restrictive. But I also know that allowing things like Nature's Renewal spam for months is either neglectful or regretable incompetence.

Combine this with the countless useless skills, and the number which

===

There is more, alot more, but I am /exhausted/, literally and of this game.

The only thing I have left to do before I feel like I never, ever have to touch GW again is to 'solo' Hero-way Urgoz while simultaneously utilizing both of my accounts (one running on my Mac laptop, at that), and nothing else.

I am buying a decked-out next generation computer just so that I can at least get eye-candy out of any future games I invest my resources in. (this may sound unremarkable, but realize that I am a penny-pincher to a nearly unrealistic extreme)

Oh, and get Apocalyptica's version of Tool's Schizm. It is an unexpectantly classical instrumental version without any vocals.

Man, if you guys don't want to take henchmen or heroes, then don't do it. Don' t assume everyone wants to play with people like you and try to coerce Anet into 'forcing' them to. The henchmen and heroes are there for the people who would rather not play with other humans, for whatever reason they choose. If you don't like it, the answer is simple, don't do it. Stand in an outpost for hours waiting for someone to come and complete your party. Spend your time mid-mission trying to tell that the warrior the cons of rushing into battle before everyone is ready. Sit and explain to that new monk how to run a proper heal or prot bar. It's your choice, play it like you want.

Str0b0 brought up a good point. While a lot of players like to use the Hero's there are just as many who do not like them. I use henchmen and hero's only when I have to. Even in the land of NightFall a good Nuker is almost always wanted for groups in any mission. But for the most part as the OP said somethings must be changed or a lot of players will be leaving.

Mega Mouse

Chet Ingram Kabak

i totally agree with what you said, even doing the quests is more of a chore than excitement, i tell you what the main problem is, they are giving themselves 6 months to make a new chapter to earn the cash, im pretty sure from the sale of GW propercies along the servers could be run for at least 10 years so why is there a actual rush for a new chapter when:

you can tell its rushed with all bugs poorly designed terrain and landscape
nonscence quests like feed a npc his soup
etc etc i could go on

the main problem with guildwars is this, the customer service and relations of anet is very poor, when your a game enthusiast and want to help and submit ideas and everything they fob you off to a forum, and more than likly none of the material is read until 6 months later.

if you have a in game problem the first responce you recieve from a actual human from the cust support team, instead of those crappy auto ones is implying your to blame for a problem you have.

recently i sent this email to arenanet.

Customer (nicole hunter) 01/17/2007 05:37 PM
my brother likes a challange and he has been doing some level creating for various games, he asked me if there is anyway he can have the level editing program that you use for guildwars so he can learn it and perhaps make some stuff, which he will forward to u at one point to see if you like it, as he would like to perhaps create stuff for yourselves as a outsider who loves the game, please can you let me know, thanks


reply was


Response (GM Lemoncobra) 01/18/2007 11:50 AM
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. We appreciate your brother's enthusiasm. Unfortunately, we are unable to provide him with the tools used to create any aspects of Guild Wars. The programs used to create the world are proprietary and cannot be given to anyone that does not work for ArenaNet. We appreciate your understanding. If you have any more questions, please let us know and we will be more than happy to assist you.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team



I think then if only anet staff are allowed the tools then they should actually do a good job for once, as other games such as quake series doom series, battlefield vietnam and bf2, also command and conquer, even company of hereos all provide the level editing tool to encourage people to interact more with the game


to me this sounds like A-net implying they are our keepers and we are there cattle, and im sick of being treated like one, we come on to enjoy ourselves but wheres the enjoyment. i think at this moment with the current state of affairs in guildwars id rather play checkers on msn, because thats more fun.

No this means that we don't have any poorly-made maps that appear in said games such as Battlefield 1942 and Quake. If only ANet has the tools then they control the quality and don't have 250 big square maps with nothing in them lying about in the middle of Vabbi

We don't need people with no level building skills building maps full of nothing in order to make the game more "fun".

but how do peoples made maps actually be submitted? they wont, but if someone makes this nice little place and submits it and then gw says we like it but we would likeyou to texture it this theme, then isnt that a plus? because gw will be obviously controlling what people play so why actually deny the tools to see what ideas people come up with? and implimenting them if anet likes.

many of the skills on guildwars have been what people have suggested, the majority of the game is what people have suggested, so why not allow people acess to the enviroment and see what that come up with, instead of poorly exercised enviroments made quickly by a nerd on 30000 dollars a year whos on a tight schedule?

Chet, this is my second post in this thread, the first being somewhat of a knee jerk, in response to the opening of your post. But, I have taken the time to read everything you have written and think about it a little more.
I see one big problem in that I simply feeel you expect more than Anet is willing, no make that able, to deliver. You are totally in your right to expect whatever you want, where you have a problem is when you apply your expectations to the GuildWars community as a whole.
I honestley feel you need to step away from the game, for a long time, not a couple of days, give it 4-5 months.
You admit that you hate it, the game disgusts you,but you are resigned to slogging your Tyrians through NF, just so you can sport the protector title ! That is madness, bordering on pathological.
Your expectations have grown exponentially, you want GW's to be the be all and end all of modern MMORPG, well it isnt, and never has claimed to be.
I really feel we all need to realise ANet is doing something no one else in the gaming community had the balls to attempt, they are breaking new ground, and, whether you admit this or not, you will benifit from it, in probably every game you play on the net from now on. There is no Prima game guide for them to consult, they dont have a lesson plan outlining the steps to gaming greatness. They are trying to expand the parameters of online gaming, and basically we are all in for the test drive.
Reading this it probably sounds/reads as if it is coming from a huge ANet fanbois,simply not the case at all. I think the company has made some, even a lot of the mistakes you mention, they are not perfect, and they should be held to a reasonable level of accountability, but what you and many others seem to want is far beyond what ANY gaming company could offer.
It makes me think there are other forces at play in your life, and that your dissapointment in Anet has been disproportionatley blown up.
Anyone who claims to hate the game as you do, but will continue to force themselves through it, has more on their plate than they are alluding too. Nobody is forcing your hand, you buy the game, you load it up, you play it. People are dissapointed in the games they buy every day, I have at least ten titles I paid full value for and never played for one reason or the other(but all revolving around the mechanics/gameplay)for more than a handful of hours. Did this upset me, hell yes, but there is so little I can do about it, that I just look for something better. I dont have the time to waste wanting 'what might have been'.
I am not saying there is no place for feedback, and criticism, but you have to know where to draw the line, what is a reasonable expectation, and what is simply your wish for the game of your dreams.
In closing I have to say if it, playing GuildWars, really hurts as much as you make it out, this is very troubling behaviour, with no doubt, a negative affect on you and those around you, and perhaps should be your first concern.

I've played since the WPE and overall, I'm pleased with the games' evolution. But there is only 1 thing that I thought brought Guild Wars one step backwards. IMO, Heroes were bad addition to Guild Wars coz the game is geared to be a team game and sometimes you gotta force people to work together as a team.

Wow, someone doesnt know what pathos is, but used the word anyways.

Funny.

Well, not being a long time player I know I'm supposed to shut up and watch the greybeards do the talking, but maybe, just maybe, I do have something to say.

I started playing GW before NF came out, but after Factions. I strictly decided to finish Factions first before going to Nightfall to keep in sequence. And, surprise surprise: I already did most of my playing with henchmen. Henchmen, I might add, when there were no flags to place yet! The camaraderie the original poster was talking of was long gone by then, before the first hero was born. Because I couldn't take all the abuse and the incompetence. I'm a reasonable player, at best, but I'm willing to look at the forums for beginners articles and similar. The game is full of idiots who aren't. I want to get things done. And then someone in the group who promised to stay just caps his skill and leaves.

The heroes are not the problem. They are the solution to a problem, and by their existence, they show the problem in all its hideous glory.

Heroes are only slightly different than Henchmen. As in, they are customizable. You take out Heroes, you have to take out Henchmen.

Which means, a loss of player base because you have NO CHOICE but to rely on others. AND a lot of people know what that means, including myself. That would be effectively driving the game into the grave.

Once that happens, there is no such thing as soloing when you want to because Guild Wars is a forced team based game. A lot less people will be inclined to play because of the lack of progress, even MORE class elitism, much more bad attitudes of other players just to name a few. We have much of this now but it would be twice as intensive once the hench/hero is removed.

Forcing people to do anything in general is a bad step in a game like this. That means that the person will find ways NOT to do things if they feel that it isn't fun or they just didn't want to.

I believe that the mistake was interweaving heroes into the storyline as "required" and having to level them up. IT should have always been an option to get them at the level cap.

Hmm... I'm a long time player, so maybe I should chime in on this thread too.

For the record: I started with E34E, then WPE, 4 BWEs, and I've been playing consistently since prophecies released... back when prophecies was still called Guild Wars.

To the OP, although I tend to agree with your premise (PvE becoming a chore), I disagree with just about all the details/reasons you provided. I only want to focus on one thing right now though, the issue of heroes.

It's been stated by many people, not just in this thread, or forum, and I even hear it in game still: PUGs suck. The "wammo tales" are endless, and usually the moral of the story is "too many players are idiots". I don't think it's actually a problem that the players are bad though. If a game is setup in such a way that every PUG has a game ruining 'n00b' in it, then there's a flaw in the game itself. I think that flaw is the over importance of team coordination.

Long before Nightfall came out, ArenaNet said (specifically Jeff Strain I think... someone correct me if I'm wrong) that their data showed most people played alone with henchmen, or with a friend or two and filled the rest of the group with henchmen. Heroes were added so that this wouldn't be frustrating any more. Henchmen have pathetic builds, sub-optimal equipment, and are dumb as rocks. Yet people would rather play with them then the 'n00bs' who shared all those qualities too. So what was the difference? Simply put: Communication.

Now to put it not so simply.

The game mechanics of Guild Wars exist in a way that different team members play completely different roles. No one is completely self sufficient. You've got healers, damage dealers, supporters, etc. These roles don't change on the fly. In battle a healing monk isn't going to suddenly re-spec as a smiter or something. So what happens when a healer notices an enemy who needs to die? He's got to tell the damage dealer obviously. How does that scenario differ with heroes and PUGs?

Hero method: Player (a monk) targets mob, clicks hero's target icon. Problem solved.

PUG method: Player (a monk), trys to call the target. Calls target a few times. Types in chat "Someone kill that Mob!" etc. Assuming it even gets the other teammates attention, it still takes longer than clicking one icon.

Essentially, heroes and henchmen automate what is probably the hardest aspect of Guild Wars, the team coordination. It all becomes an extension of your keyboard. I don't need to type things out in chat (and I type really slow), I can just flag a hero somewhere in a second. If I need a warrior to move somewhere to defend something, I flag Koss there instead of trying to type it out or spam a target call and hope everyone just understands what I'm trying to say.

Guild Wars isn't very friendly on the team coordination front. To make matters worse, battles occur in seconds. People use TS or Vent in PvP because talking is a lot faster and clearer than typing. It's really the only way to win. In PvE, people relied on henchmen despite their flaws because of this. ArenaNet made Heroes to help make PvE fun to play instead of frustratingly slow. Now that I think about it, they're kind of a band aid for the real problem, but may offer a better solution in the long run.

To relate a story of my own for a moment. A few weeks back I needed to collect Putrid Cysts to get collector weapons for a bunch of my heroes. I decided to just replay missions like Vizunah Square and Tahnnakai Temple over and over to get them. So I take my Dervish and heroes to Vizunah, get some henchmen, enter and start playing. I got paired with a hench team, got masters, went back again. Got paired with a 1 player + henchmen team, got masters, and went back again. After a few more loops like this, it hit me: with these heroes it doesn't matter what the other team is, we'll win this. Then I got even bolder, I cut a henchmen and accepted a random invite when putting my team together. Confirmed with the other person that they didn't mind playing with my hero/hench team, and we were off. Got masters again there too.

I realized that between me and my heroes/henchmen, I could carry an extra player along, and whether or not they were good or bad it didn't matter. One person couldn't kill the team when I was there with heroes, so I started looking at random invites with some more optimism. The issue there, I think, is that team coordination and dependancy is so important in Guild Wars, that if I could assure that with a few heroes, even one of Factions' most frustrating missions was fun. If ArenaNet ever gets rid of the hero limit, I'll probably be able to optimize enough to let two people come with me instead of just one.

I think this is why PUGs really have such a bad reputation and why heroes are so necessary right now. Strangers won't have the split second coordination needed to play this game to the fullest. I kind of cringe whenever I see someone saying how "heroes ruined the game" or "Anet needs to get rid of heroes". I know I don't want to lose such a critical aspect of gameplay that started to re-invigorate Guild Wars for me (before the DoA crushed my hopes for this game...).

So what about playing with people? I don't think the answer is to force it, it's to stop forcing it. Despite the fact that people can hero/hench just about everything (my Dervish got all 3 protector and GMC titles that way, hurray!), they still need a team. That need is so strong, because of the gameplay, that many have turned to hero/henching their way through the game to get that critical team work. The only ones who can do that with all people are good guilds, using voice coms of some kind. That can't be expected of the rest of the player base. Not because "they all suck", but because the game just doesn't support that coordination naturally. It probably never can. I can give a hero all the instructions they need with a few mouse clicks, I can't do that with a person.

The only way I see PUGs really working in this game is for team coordination to be de-emphasized, in PvE anyway. Self sufficient builds, like a healing monk who can fight well too, or a warrior who can heal someone when needed could be really useful for this, but aren't likely under the current game design. So we need another solution.

Ironically, the often hated two team missions of Factions may be the perfect template for this. For example, what if 4 players, each with their own 3 heroes, could team up for a mission. At that point, you could in theory have 4 self sufficient "cells", working together losely as a team. No need for great coordination between the groups, but they are all there, helping each other in general. Or just go direct from the Factions template. Two teams, each 1 player with 7 heroes, randomly paired with another team of 1 player and seven heroes. Two self sufficient groups, able to work with each other to get through the mission. The needed teamwork is provided by the heroes/henchmen, while the players can work together at a "slower" pace.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm a loner at heart and I always want it possible to completely hench everything. Everyone should be able to jump into any PvE area and play without wasting time with a team in my opinion. However, even I don't mind playing with others sometimes when I know they can't ruin my fun. My Dervish's hero/hench team in Vizunah Square is typically good enough that as long as the other team can keep Togo alive until I get there, we're all getting Master reward. I found that actually made things a little more fun. I don't need the other team any more, they're a bonus and I like having the extra company.

Get rid of the team dependancy, and I think PUGs might start making a comeback. Then again, I might just be totally crazy.

i agree with the OP, exact same train of thoughts ... even with the heroes which he does state is both good and bad. yeah alesia was a horrible healer and cynn or orion would use fire storm waaaaay too late, but these were reasons why people used player-only-groups as much as possible in missions and this is how the guilds in the community came about.

i quit a month after nightfall was released. it was just too much of a chore, like the OP said, for me to take my all my 5 characters through ... my necro main was enough and that ended my adventure here.

I've been playing GW for about 7 months now. I've accumulated almost 1,700 hours of playtime during these past 7 months.

I quit about a week ago. Why? I ran Dzagonur Bastion with a group of people LFG in the zone. We failed. Attempted again with the same group. Failed. Attempted again with a NEW group. Failed. This continued until I think I was on attempt #9 or 10. After the next failure, I decided to give up on humanity all together, and Hero it.

Masters. First try with Heroes. That disgusted me. The game is so dumbed down now, you don't even need to be a good player to finish a mission. That's why you see more and more people using skills that should NEVER go into that mission. Ever. And then they start caps-locking on you for calling them on it.

OMG YOU DONT EVEN NO HOW 2 PLAY NUB LOL <---this is how they type

Seriously. The Hero system is good. Hell, it's great! But...when you can rely on this new system so much that you personally, don't need to know what's going on and STILL finish the game...something's wrong.


I could rant for hours about all of the aspects of the game I feel need much improvement, but I felt like touching base with the one that gives me the most grief. Since NF was released, i've noticed about 75% less LFG chatter in towns. Seriously.

Sigh. I really hope they do something soon to re-kindle interest in this game for me.

I don't mind paying monthly (whenever they start charging) for Vanguard...but i'd much rather stay with a game where all of my characters are fully developed and powerful. Too bad it feels like i'm clocking in for work everytime I click Log In.

This is me logging in to do anything in GW anymore

Yeah, the thing that was wrong is that the groups you were in were dumber than the AI.

I've been tracking Vanguard for a while now. That MMO looks interesting, and I plan to keep an eye on it until the details for Chapter 4 come forward. Its really a make or break chapter for me sorry to say.

There are some issues I agree with, and some I do not, but I'll try to only comment on the ones I do.


PvE vs PvP
========
There's room for both, and it offers a great variety for a larger audience. My suggestion to ANET is to make them less dependent on each other. If something in PvP is overpowered, does that mean a PvE player should have another skill turned into something useless? The same things applies vice-versa, just because a 600 monk is farming out in PvE, why should the PvP monk look at spirit bond and think "yup never going to use that!" I don't have any thoughts on how to fix this, except for decoupling of these two worlds in some way.


The Fellowship is Broken
==================
Definitely something apparent, but I won't blame it on heroes. I agree with Iuris. You have to offer the casual player the options to still play the game. No, this problem is something else. The decline of this fellowship is directly related to your ability to play the game /without/ PUGs. Why? Go to Unwaking Waters at a non-peak time and tell me what you see (you should see nothing, in fact the last time I went there to do the mission I was the only one in the entire town). I used to love getting in PUG's, now its a chore! Why would I want to log in and wait for 45 minutes just to finally get a group together! Spreading the entire population of GW across 4 continents will only make this worse.


For the love of Money
================
You can't destroy the real game for the real crowd just because some people are farming and getting rich. Good for them... its fake money. Perhaps ANet should not make "gold" such a big part of the game? After all, if you stick a trader in every town where you can (now) buy anything you want in the game, you are only encouraging this type of behavior, not discouraging it. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying completely ditch the idea of trading, but if any random with 5 million ectos can buy anything in the game, doesn't that discourage diversity and encourage a spoiled market? and at that same time doesn't it fail to motivate your average player to go out and seek these items themselves? Instead everyone is just going to A) buy it, or B) throw on some running shoes and farm the 1 guy that drops the item(s)... hmm a game driven by gold and farming. gee I wonder why.


Deja Vu!
======
I like the word GRIND being used to describe how things are. Is it really fun to kill the same groups over and over? Its disgusting! What you see in prophecies: group of Avicara. 3 braves, maybe a couple fierce, maybe a guile. next group: 1 brave, 3 fierce, and an ardent. next group: 6 mountain trolls. next group: some herders. Get the idea? fun! variety! Now, what is factions and nightfall?? first group: 1 kournan priest, 1-2 kournan seer, 1-2 kournan phalanx, 1-2 warlock, 1-2 scribe. Next group: 1 kournan priest, 1-2 kournan seer, 1-2 kournan phalanx, 1-2 warlock, 1-2 scribe. um.. ok I've had enough after 1/4 of the game! Anyway, couldn't agree more and I really hope they remedy this for ch. 4.


Anyway, some of my ideas I was thinking of to help make PVE more enjoyable:

• Chests. The whole chest system used to be motivating to actually play the game after you beat the walk through, but with the market flood there's no drive. hey I'll just buy it! I challenge everyone to actually add up the $ they spend on keys, then add up their returns. Suddenly buying items isn't only easier and faster, but perhaps cheaper! Buried treasures... nice rewards but in fixed locations? c'mon. Give us motivation to go "run" instead of explore and kill, then give every group out there mind freeze or imagined burden. lame...
• Customized items. I would love to see more treats in this game that aren't marketable. More diversity, something that makes players feel different from the guy next to him. ...and I'm not talking about inscriptions - thats just a way for anyone to "buy" exactly what they want, instead of playing the game to earn it.
• Parallel questing. We all love to play multiple characters, but can you really do the same mission 5-10 times with your 5-10 characters? Talk about GRIND. I thought it was refreshing to see this in Nightfall and Factions (2 paths). We need more of this, perhaps with randomness? Maybe as I am playing my warrior, Varesh is a healer, and then I play my Mesmer and to my surprise, she uses necro skills! Just some ideas to remove the Deja-Vu-ness of this game.
• PvE/PVP mixes. Factions had a few fun things such as Alliance battles and Fort Aspenwood that I thought were really fun. Almost like a game within a game. I'd love to see more of this stuff
• Elite missions. I went to DoA and spent a good 2-3 hours fighting some real badies. Someone want to tell me why I am getting a white 12-19 dmg sword as a drop? and a +9 energy idol? seriously that is pathetic... not even max damage stuff. I probably sold my entire loot for 600gold. I'd get better treats killing charr outside ascalon in 10 minutes than the 3 hours of wasted time I spent in there.

many others I am sure nobody is interested in reading cos my post is way too long...

Been playing for around 16 months. In that time I have learned how to play a few classes rather well, time played and all that. Have done some bonehead things in missions, in UW or FoW, etc.

The thing is I learned, and I learned from a very( to me anyway) experienced player who I met while trying to get through Thunderhead Keep, when it was actually tough to get through if you were newer to the game. This person taught me how to trap UW, how FoW worked, taught me not only the skills and equipment that worked but why they worked. And also laughed with me when I made the bonehead pull of all time in FoW. Point here is that someone took the time to teach me things beyond just getting through the game.

My first character finished prophecies in Droks armor, minor vigor rune and a non max dmg bow. I think you get my point here.

When factions came out, to my dismay and my delight, you could get at weaponsmiths and collectors perfectly modded weapons, shields, etc. All of a sudden you could get with little to no effort something that was coveted by many - just add a mod or 2 and there you go.

The other thing about factions was the 12 hour level 20 wonders, made pugs interesting to say the least.

So NF introduced heroes, good in many ways and probably bad in a couple. The good outways the bad in my opinion. For the most part a friend and I teamed up with our heroes through NF.

My friend and I have ventured in FoW with heroes, done sorrows furnace runs with Heroes (B/P build) and capped spiders for 4 of our ranger heroes in UW. It was and is fun - just load a build and go. Oh yeah, we did a tombs B/P run as well.

I still pug as I find it enjoyable sometimes. Have learned to keep from typing nonconstructive things - everyone was new(er). And I just get ready to kite a lot when some don't watch the aggro circle, have only 1 interupt, etc. And yes, I cringe at " Oh, Chest!" as whomever makes a dash in its direction.

The game has changed since I first spawned in pre-searing, but then so has my ability to play this game. My main character is 20,000xp short of 8 million xp and from 0xp to now I have learned to play some.

Do I like GWs? Yes. Do I like all things in GWs? No. When I stop enjoying this game I will no longer play. There are many on my friends list who reached that point already - long time players who no longer play for whatever reason.

Anyway, I went on a bit. I did create a monk again because of heroes - they don't yell if you miss a heal and more importantly don't run off and expect to be taken care of, die and then start going off on you.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - having that fancy green doesn't make you a better player

For the Record: Been playing Guild Wars since WPE (play using my roommate account), and brough Guild Wars CE 3 weeks after release.

Very Good OP I would say, also a good feedback from others and pointing out the good things and bad things about Guild Wars since release to public test. I would like to say this threat as a Big Picture of Guild Wars and would like ANet/Guild Wars team have a deep look into it as Quality Assurance for Long Term period.

To add up, I came up with some RAW Idea concerning "farmer".

Tax.

Introduce Tax Points into player account. Tax Point will be needed for every transaction between player that exceed 10.000 gold (10k).

How it works:
Every time you make transaction item(s) or gold with other people, both will need to pay 10% Tax. Both people need to pay 10% Tax for every item(s) and/or gold that they going to trade. They need to pay Tax if the value of the transaction exceed 10.000 gold (10K).

How to calculate the Tax:
Whenever you and/or other party click "Submit Offer" button, the Tax calculation start, it will get the current price from NPC as if you sell the item(s) to NPC, then if the amounts of item(s) in gold exceed 10.000 gold (10K), 10% Tax will kick in and show it up in the trade bar. Both party needs to have enough Tax Points to finish the transaction.

How to obtain Tax Points:
Every gold drop from a monster you gain the same amount of Tax Points and every quest reward that give you gold it also add up into Tax Points, not only your own reward but also your other party member reward will add up your Tax Points.

Note:
- Tax Points is base account; character with in the same account will share the same amount of Tax Points.
- Tax Points is not trade able.
- Only applied for transaction between players that exceed 10.000 gold.
- Item that doesn't belong to special NPC (Dye Trader, Material Trader, etc) will use NPC Merchant Price.

PVE vs PvP - Who Wins?
====
Aren't you glad that instead of doing the same old skill balancing act - no testing, no opportunity for player feedback, etc. that they actually presented it to the player base as a test where everyone (PvE and PvP) has a chance to give feedback on the PROPOSED changes?

There are several reasons for this situation, and Heros and Henchies play a big part in it. But, there are a couple of other factors that have only been lightly touched upon or hinted at.

1. Guilds: After nearly 2 years, many, many guilds have solidified into large groups (30+ members), giving their members a good player base for getting groups together to help each others out. Communications have gone from in-game chat to either the private guild chat or, more often, guilds use TS / Vent. to chat. It's easier to talk to people you're already at least aquainted with that are scattered across the GW world using these methods.

2. Alliances - Ahh, an even bigger pool of people to contact for grouping up and doing things with! My guild formed an alliance with a couple of long time (pre-GW, even) gaming groups who we consider friends and allies simply to be able to get in touch with each other via alliance chat to go questing together.

3. Friends list - If I'm not chatting with my guildies or allies, I've got quite a few friends that I can PM anywhere in the game. It comes from playing the game since the beginning, and meeting people as I went along. I'm sure that most long time players have built up pretty good friends lists.

4. Rude jackasses - Why the hell does anyone want to chat on the public channel when it's hard to even ask a simple question ("Where's storage?" - often asked in Droknar's Forge) without getting called a stupid noob? Or, when you ask a question in-game, you get "look it up on Guildwiki." I'm sorry, if you don't know the answer, don't say anything! (same goes for these forums - answer the question and THEN refer them to guildwiki for further info!)

And the "PUGs suck!" mentality really, really annoys me. Maybe, just maybe if all the l33t PvEers would not leave the PUGs to the n00bs and do more pugging, then the quality of PUGs would go up dramatically. - But, IMHO, PUGs aren't as bad as they're potrayed anyway (I may just be lucky, I've had more success with PUGs than failures.)
I agree with what you have to say about Tyria.

I agree with what you have to say about Cantha - I took my main character through it that was the end of it for me (but I do like the AB's).

I disagree with your views on mainland Elona. Yeah, it's all pretty much arid landscape. BUT there is so much beauty incorporated into it and it's diverse enough to make it a pleasure to roam around in. In Prophecies, there was a "WOW! factor" when exploring new areas, and it was, IMHO, restored in Nightfall.

As for missions, someone said something about the repetitiveness of having to fight the same things over and over being a drag. It is. One of my favorite missions of all the chapters is Iron Mines of Molandune, because it has a wider variety of enemies than any other mission - There's giants, trolls, Azure shadows, stone summit, mursaat all in one mission - good stuff. The Nightfall missions have quite a bit of variety to them too. ( I was hoping for more "blowing stuff up" like in the first mission - LOL). I enjoy the humor they put into them, the varying requirements to achieve masters, and the continuity of the story-line. If I never see another "afflicted" I'll be a happy camper.

I am not sure about the Tax system...it seems rather complicated.

I think the theory would need more explanation, so that we understand it better. My personal feeling is that Arena-Net has been misdirecting their efforts to curb farming by large, complicated methods that alter the entire gamescape....when a short, simple solution would probably be more effective.

Much like Prohibition in the 1920's, the anti-farming code in Guild Wars is just creating a 'mafia' of gold farmers and item sellers, trying to supply the masses with the things they want. It creates an environment that gold farmers thrive in. Restricting access to getting items means that Joe Casual Player cannot afford to get the items he wants, because of inflation. Joe may want to go and earn money, but the anti-farming code makes this increasingly difficult for him to do, so he decides to buy it instead.

Now to play devil's advocate: pumping more money into the system by way of unrestricting farming, would just cause inflation to go up.

There are no easy answers here, but I've already given my idea (limiting large gold transfers per account per 24hr period). The more ideas we put here, the better chance we have to address everyone's concerns, and find a solution that works better for everyone.


I don't totally disagree with you. There are parts of Elona I do like. The Hidden City, for instance. Still, It is less about the terrain itself, and more about the fact that I am railroaded into doing the same quests and missions over and over, in order, that I do not like.

I am not a fan of having new characters ran to new places, IF that player has never been there before. You should play the story of the game, first. But once a player has been there, and done that, they should have the option of shortcutting it. Here's my idea for a compromise, let me know what you think about it.

Once a player has taken one of their characters through the entire chapter, after beating the game, there should be some kind of reward for this, that allows their characters from other chapters to bypass certain areas.
For instance: A developed character can make it to Sulferous Wastes without any trouble...but you cannot pass beyond it without doing the mission to tame the worms ( besides, you might actually want your character to be able to ride in the worms!). You cannot do this, however, until you have finished all the previous missions.

Instead of this, I think an easy method of fixing the problem is to allow each mission to be 'unlocked', once done. Any character from other chapters on the account could then do that mission at any time, with no prerequisites needed, other than actually reaching that town or outpost. They could run there, adventure there, or do the quests at their leisure.

I think small details like this, could make a large impact on how people feel about chapters. It was the same situation in Kaineng City, when you were required to do every mission and primary quest, before the gate even opened up for you. This forced people to do parts of the game they didnt like, over and over and over again. It made it GRIND. Guild Wars is supposed to reduce grind, it was one of the principles they marketed for the game. A few simple changes could go a long way. I hope people do not mistake me in 'hating the chapter'...I hate some things in the chapter, and would like the option to not repeat them. We know it's possible, since they did it originally in Tyria.

My thoughts exactly.

Well I have a some things to share about A.Net and the game myself.
There's something I feel sorry about, and I say it with all my sincerity. When one looks at this thread, or other threads, there are so many complaints and issue discussions that I think we are making the Devs think that they have made a big mistake when they decided to develop a game like Guild Wars. That's why I want to tell them (if any of them is reading this that is) that they made a successful game, and that is why people are trying so hard to make it better. Call me pantsy but if I were working day and night in the dev staff, to keep the game up and running, meanwhile designing new stuff for upcoming campaigns, the moment I read these I would be devastated. I would ask myself; "are we really that bad?"

Therefore I want to say that we are just offering these arguments to make an already good game even better. Many of you will probably say "yeah yeah ofcourse, what else would this be for?". I needed to give this explanation because of one of Gaile's last posts about her complaint on the matter of "nerfing/balancing". Those who read it will know. I really felt bad for her/them when I digested what she was trying to tell us.

These complaints (actually suggestions) shouldn't make you deter from your development, on the contrary they shuold provoke you to create better stuff.

After all, yesterday's good is becoming tomorrow's boring. The devs certainly reached a wide community with the game, but to keep that community and reach a wider one, is through revolutionary evolutions. I ask of you developers now, to look into what we have been maturely talking about in this thread and evalute them as if we are working for Guild Wars. Cuz even tho we may not officially be working for you, we are metaphorically your employees, who are trying to make the game better just as much as your employees at the HQ.

This should be the OP--I feel it has a much better tone and style. Instead of my kneejerk reaction being to search this argument for a flaw--like it was with Chet Ingram Kabak's--my reaction here is to tend to agree.

Get the whole album. It's phenomenal.

I have been playing GW for around 20 months now.
What I have to say is that I'm most disappointed not in how things are going in game, but the fact that ANet and their respective public people (IE Gaile) don't even respond to the numerous threads regarding GWs slow but sure downfall.
Don't get me wrong. I love this game.
I must agree with the general consensus that change must occur. The most frustrating thing is, ANet doesn't even seem to care. The weekend events seem almost random. The least they can do is post a "We'll consider this" or even a "Sorry, that's not possible" or the like.
And yet, they ignore the cries of their most loyal players.
I think that is the true reason why people leave. No matter what, it is basic human psychology to want to be heard. When people who have put a part of their lives in to this game and try to get it fixed just to end up with NO response at all, neither positive nor negative, why would they want to stick with it?
ANet has done a ALOT with PvP (and even PvE) with all the skill changes, I will admit, but the COUNTLESS people who have posted threads like this remain unheard. People who have legitimate concerns not for specific problems but for GW as a whole.
If there IS a ANet let them repost now! xD

@ the op.

When I see actual numbers foretelling the doom of GW, I'll believe it. If you've been around since betas then you know people have also been posting posts like yours. Most of them had the exact same tone yours had, had some of the exact same arguments yours had. So far there has never been a sign of dwindling sale numbers.

What makes your post different? Why are your prophecies true?

Frankly: I'm with Rieselle. GW has only gotten better and better. After playing a game for 2 years you're bound to get tired of it eventually. GW isn't life's answers to boredom. It's just a great game.


P.S Cut out the anti-pvp part of your post please. It lowers the quality of your post significantly. Stop and actually consider the other side of view. PvEers get a new continent in every expansion. What do PvPers get? Right... 4 guildhalls. You can say what you want but contentwise PvEers get alot more for their dime then PvPers get.
You nor I want this thread to end in the same kind of drama those things always end up in. You've been along long enough to realize both groups have to make sacrifices. Stop acting as though PvE is PvP's sacrificial lamb. It isn't.

Some parts I agree on, some parts I don't. I haven't been playing for as long as you, I don't think, but long enough to have finished the game with all my original character slots before Factions came out.

====
The Fall of Camelot
====

A lot of people are suffering from Guild Wars overdose, I think. Call it overexposure. My guild were talking about it recently, and most of us agree our enthusiasm is dying after three chapters, citing various reasons (some of which you've mentioned). I mostly think those of us who feel this way need to take a break and play something else for a while, but if the reasons for our 'disgruntlement' stem from actual mechanics and the current culture of the game... well, who knows when (or if) these will change.

====
PVE vs PvP - Who Wins?
====

I confess I haven't played PvP more than a couple of times since Nightfall came out. I enjoy the occasions when I do PvP, but am primarily a PvE person.

I disagree that PvP gets more attention than PvE. I can't really explain why. There are PvP events and PvE events... to be honest I don't pay much attention to either (excepting Wintersday, Halloween and other 'big' events... which catered to both PvE and PvP).

I only shrug and adapt to skill changes. It's an online game, so mechanics will always be tweaked one way or another.

====
The Fellowship is Broken
====

I just had to quote this bit, because this is exactly what I experienced when first going through Nightfall, and it struck me in a similar fashion. Well done.

To the point of this section, Heroes have their good points and bad points, both of which have been discussed ad nauseum. My first time through Nightfall (with my lev 20 Tyrian Monk) I henched as much as I could until I discovered I was actually forced to use Heroes to proceed in the game.

It came as an unpleasant shock when I reached the Con. Docks mission, joined a full team of human players... then had to watch as the party leader was forced to boot one of his team-mates to make way for an AI Hero.

I reach the mainland and return to using Henchmen. But when I discover that more quests and missions will be requiring Heroes, I believe I have no choice but to try and level the little bastards.

*sigh*

Don't get me wrong. I like Heroes. I think they are very useful and are a good addition to the game, overall. But I think Nightfall handled their inclusion very poorly. :/

====
For the love of Money
====

I can't comment much on the economy. While I think I was around before SF opened, the inclusion of greens went over my head (at the time, I didn't take much notice of 'new additions' or fan forums). I still happily use blue collector items and tweak them to my own preferences. If people want to pay an absurd sum of money for golds or greens, that's up to them. I don't play the market much. I tend to sell items I think/know have value, but rarely buy anything more exotic than 15k armour (of which I have a set for a few of my characters... thanks to people paying absurd sums of money for golds I find through casual play rather than farming ).

The bot-farmers bother me more, because Anet has stated the use of certain programs is illegal, yet those using them still run rampant. I don't know what methods Anet use to ban such people, so I will reserve judgement. Obviously it's more complex than simply logging in to a farming 'hot spot', watching repetitive behaviour and whipping out the Stick of Banning +1.

i love you

/jump



=====
Farmer Joe
=====

To be completely honest... it doesn't bother me at all. I don't care what computer graphic they wear, or whether or not they earned it. I don't have Obsidian Armour, and don't know if I'll ever buy a set for a similar reason why I am happy to use collector weapons: status symbols don't impress me. I'll buy something because I like what it looks like, not because it's the most expensive thing money can buy and I want to flaunt the fact I have money to burn.

The real argument is that bot-farmers (or the beloved Aspenwood Faction Farmers) ultimately get something for nothing (ie. letting their computer do the work), and that is something that irritates me, yes. I doubt GW is unique in this area, though I wish something visible was being done about the problem.

However, this section does not deter me from playing GW in the slightest. It just puts me off a certain percentage of players in the game (and I can tolerate 'honest' bot-farmers and gold-ebayers much better than scammers).


====
Deja Vu!
====

I agree with you about Tyria and Cantha. I have to disagree with your summary of Nightfall, though. While it's true a good chunk of it is desert, I think (up to the Desolation) the scenery is nothing short of stunning. But people will always have differing opinions on art, so I won't argue this issue too much. I believe there is just as much variety in Nightfall's deserts as there was in Prophecies altogether.

Titles concern me very little, so I won't comment on this section. I see them as a side-score to playing the game rather than something I want to max out (with the possible exception of the title that improves salvaging, since it's actually got a useful side-effect rather than just being a vanity title).

====
Closing thoughts
====

The focus of the game? I don't know. I certainly feel Nightfall (after the first time through) has become more of a chore than a pleasure to play. If you want to create more than one PvE character and earn all the skills, you have to go through the entire game... over and over. Then Factions, over and over. Now the same has happened with Nightfall. I know no one is twisting my arm to play, but if I collect anything... it's skills. And in order to collect all the skills, you have to play either to the end of each chapter, or very close to it. That means repeating the same missions, the same quests for each character. I want to cap those skills to keep my characters 'up to date', and possibly get some new armour, but if I have to follow the storyline again in order to do that, there's no fun involved.

My major demotivator for GW can basically be summed up as the necessity to finish the game for the umpteenth time just to cap skills. I've had my fun with the story! I've finished it! I liked it! But I don't want to do it 7 times. I just want to map and cap now. :/ Please please please after winning the game once just let my other characters run on ahead through outposts without having to do missions in order to get anywhere.

In closing, I like GW. I'm just losing my enjoyment from it and lack the motivation to play. It's more a chore than fun right now.

i agree with opening thread author. Certainly guildwars has improved chapter by chapter in term of feature. But it's the prophecy that give me the best experience. I still remember my guild full of player helping each other in pve and
how i was told to solo farm as monk....

If anyone ask me what is the best chapter of guildwars, i would say prophercy as it give me the best guildwars experience.

Right, yet another thread about the death of Guild Wars and i for one am getting sick of it...

On the hero note, do you not realies that as with everything, things get played with far too much straight away, its a new toy and the fad quickly wears off, and besides you get the first heroes so quickly that most stick with them for the starter island, not to mention the point that you need to use them for specific missions/quests aswell

THANK YOU. This is what I have been saying all along. Everyone seems to think I am against Heros completely. I am not. I am saying the WAY they were implemented was poorly done, and needs to be re-evaluated...otherwise the problems people perceive will only get worse with time.

Again, 100% agreement here...and you again make my point.


Not the death of Guild Wars, the game....but the death of it's spirit. The essence that made it what it was to begin with. Now, that may be a good thing to you, or it may not. It's not a good thing to me, therefore this thread is here to address this.

The game will go on. Whether the people who made the game what it is will continue to play it or not...that is uncertain. I just think that it would be a shame, given how easily some of the players' concerns could be addressed.