General Feedback - My thoughts to A-Net - Long-Time Player (WPE) comments welcome!

To the OP.

I play from "only" 18 months.

I joined GwGuru on Nov 2005 (but I read it from august).
Your post is completely un-new. I will try to be short.

Some advices:
_ Stop re-writing Flame Prophecies of A-Net. They will live well, with or without you.
_ Bring something new to the table than the "PVE Vs PVP", "Heroes=Meanies" topics discussed ad nauseam. If you have nothing new to say excepted a rant, don't make a thread.
- If you're bored with the game, or unhappy with the evolution of the game, quit it. Nobody will blame you for that. There several other customers eager to take your place. No need to post as if your leaving will be a loss for GW community.

IMHO:
ANET gave us a game without fees. I would expect from such a game to be ugly, badly designed, and boring. GW is far from that.
Each expansion was great. Nightfall was super great. I was disappointed in Factions, but I must say I finished it anyway.
I feel sometimes bored or fed up with the game (more with players than with the game actually) and stop playing. I always end to return to the game.
When GW won't fulfill my desires, I will stop playing.
And I won't shout it on Fansites forums like my virtual death was meaning something.

glountz,

The point is that I would rather see the game changed, than stop playing it.
Nightfall was not super great. It was just "OK". Super great is your opinon. "Just OK, but frustrating" is my opinion.

If you have nothing to actually add to the conversation (such as what you think should be changed, or should not be changed) please refrain from flaming other people who do not agree with you.

We want to see the game changed. That is why we post here. If you do not, simply say you like it the way it is, and leave it at that.

Thank you

Strongly disagree with OP's idea to nerf Hero options. They should buff them and let the player have 7 Heroes, not nerf them.

Heroes and Henchmen allow most players to enjoy the game, therefore to nerf them in PVE would be ridiculous. If the majority of players didn't like Heroes/Hench way better than PUGs (and with rock solid good reasons why) then PUGs would not be dead. Therefore to nerf Heroes in PVE would ruin PVE for the majority of players and should not be done. Guild Wars is supposed to be an individual choice to play alone or with other players - it even says so on the Guild Wars retail box. Therefore to nerf Heroes in PVE to appease the minority of players who love PUGs would be absurd.

I played since WPE and Heroes are a godsend because joining horrible PUGs with ludicrously bad players is no longer required. Amen that it's not!

If they wanna bring team work back then they can give monsters 8 skills and make monsters use good tactics to provide a challenge in PVE (not DoA's version of buffing monster stats to ludicrous levels!). That would make good players preferable to Heroes/Hench.

Not sure why OP is complaining about the economy, it's extremely easy to buy almost everything in the game other than Fissure armor or torment weapons.

OP is right about the lack of variety of environments after Chapter 1 and that "forced quests/locked gates" are major pain that should not be in the game. Very good point there.

OP is also right that the devs seem to spend way more resources on PVP even though PVE has way more players hence it would be logical to reverse that and give PVE more resources to make PVE better.

You agreed with someone saying that Hero usage should be reduced to 1 Hero. I'm not quite sure what that will accomplish since Henchmen are still there.

Will your so called plan restrict Henchmen too?

Because the only thing I've been reading so far is trying to force people back into grouping. Something that a lot of people didn't like in the first place, because of the abuse and lack of insight of the game involving their apparently less tactful human teammates.

But in the end, Guildmates will still group over everyone else, PuGs will still suck, and everyone else just wanting to play the game when they can will have it hard once again.

I do not think the OP is saying he wants to force players to group with other players. Just that the way hero's are now doesn't promote grouping with other players. I think that Factions with its Allainces and Farming for points to control is truly what killed the spirit of community in Guild Wars not so much the Hero's. I say put a 1 hero cap in missions so that the other choices will be group with other players and have them choose which hero to take if the mission does not require one, and have the leader be the one who chooses the hero not everyone, doing that will keep arguments from cropping up on who's hero is better.

Mega Mouse

I agree with the OP on almost all issues except green items (there are already non prefect green items-noob greens, but i suppose that was not what he meant specifically) and on restricting Hero.

Limiting heroes is not the answer. There are plenty of people out there that simply do not want to group with a bunch of random other people. I can think of plenty good reasons why that could be: not having enough time to randomly do missions over and over, not being a peope person, playing a build you enjoy but that others might consider crap, not wanting to drag down a group because you're unfamiliar with the mission, or simply the fact that in some missions groups are hard to get. Have we all forgotten how horrible it was to get a pug in the Ring of Fire missions in Prophecies?

Heroes and henchies are a great addition to the game. They allow me to play on my own pace, when I want to. I can go afk in the middle of a mission and not destroy a group. I can play at a relaxing pace whilst talking to a friend and most importantly: I can log in and start playing 2 minutes afterwards. No waiting around for a group, no discussions, no wasting of my precious time. I've been playing DDo recently and there is nothing more frustrating then logging on and seeing there aren't enough players available to group with so you can actually play the game.


If some people feel grouping should be encouraged then they need to lobby for encouragements. For all I care full human groups get a bit more money drops and a better chance for rare items. Frankly: I don't care. Do not however take something out of the game that had very good reasons to be implemented in the first place.

Henchmen can remain as they are, because they have set skills, set attributes, and set AI patterns that are not controlled by the player.

Guildmates -should- group together. That is the point of a Guild. That does not mean that they will not pick up PUG players, and in fact, guild groups picking up PUGs tend to be rather successful, and a rewarding experience for everyone. The Guild group has enough people to drive the party forward, while the PUG player can learn new strategies and playstyle from the group.

There will always be bad PUGs...but when everyone has such a low, demeaning view of their fellow players that they rarely (if ever) play with them, why bother with an Online Massively MULTIPLAYER game? Go buy Oblivion and have fun.

Guild Wars was meant to be multiplayer...and that is the essence of the game, IMO. If you're a loner, or 'not a people person' why are you playing a game meant to surround you with people? Again, Oblivion comes to mind.

As far as better rewards for full-player groups: I think it's a GREAT idea, Tortoise!

[QUOTE]garbage ..........take away/reduce my heroes and it will FORCE me to group or use henchmen in place of heroes.

the problem is that the decent fun players have mostly joined guilds

the problem is GUILDS

IF YOU ELIMINATE ALL THOSE GUILDIES THAT PLAY TOGETHER YOU HAVE A HUGE NUMBER OF AVAILABLE PEOPLE TO GROUP WITH.

Mega Mouse that is not a CHOICE that is group or forget it.

if i am forced to group i will play the chapters i have until the servers die without buying another.

@ Chet Ingram Kabak

facts of life 101 for you

you and a very small *vocal minority* want it changed back/

Anet has the logs which tell them how a change is received by the players and if a huge majority love something (heroes) they will not get rid/cut back on them to please that tiny group.

Then let's see the statistical data from Arena-Net that support your theory.
I would be very interested to see it. IF the evidence supports your theory, then that will be the end of the conversation, and those of us who do not agree will seek alternatives. If not, then Arena-Net may need to rethink their strategy.

If you do not have this statistical data, then it's just a case of "me vs you", which is NOT the point of this thread.

Let me be clear on this. This is NOT A CONFRONTATIONAL THREAD. Do not treat it as such, please. You are free to express your opinion about the issues and topic, but keep it civil.

In any case, this is a place for those who want a venue for expressing their opinon on what can and should be changed. As I have asked other people, please limit your comments to what you think should or should not be changed. If you believe it is fine as it is, say so, and leave it at that (with a supporting argument).

I've only being playing since the official release but I agree with the general feeling of the OP. However I feel too optimistic about the next chapter to be worried. I have faith that they know there needs to be big changes, and they are going to do it.

I hope, that the next chapter won't be another 'doom and gloom' story driven, grinding chore. I hated the realm of torment, fighting massive mobs of over-poweed enemies while under the effect of enviromental hinderance. Not that it was hard, just took so long, also, I find this method of 'increasing the difficulty' forces us to take Heroes and not team with strangers. Also, you feel so alone, despite the motto of the game.

Rescuing bunny rabbits, solving team based puzzles and operating levers in a lush environment would be nice lol.

[QUOTE]they will not be publishing their data for the other game companies to look over.

the theory is simple

from early beta people have asked them to fix/improve/make useful the henchmen.

the henchmen are vastly improved and the heroes are simply another henchman upgrade.

does not the fact that heroes are being praised all over by most people except a few *i wanna pug* threads mostly posted by the same person over multiple stes mean anything?

Anets actions on the use of heroes will show which way most players want it to be.

another item.

someone who starts a thread with something like this

has already lose the arguement by saying if you dont agree dont post and specifying DISGRUNTLED posters only

PvE gets far, far more attention than PvP. The development of all those areas and monsters which you apparently don't like is much more than PvP gets. Yeah, we get some skill balances tossed to us every few months. Great. 4 new GvG maps per expansion. Whee.

Here's your problem: you found out that PvE does, in fact, suck. It's not fun to play. Your initial moments of happiness w/ Prophecies were incorrect to have.

In short: do us, and everyone else, a favor: quit. Most others have already, and they're correct to do so.

GW is a PvP game that has a PvE tutorial. They might sink more man-hours into PvE, but it is PvP that is the game's focus.

Oh please.
PvE does not "in fact, suck". That is your sole opinion. Many people ONLY PvE and you have no right to lessen the opinions of others.
PvE may have bad qualities but it is certainly not a failure.

Trevor, does that sound like he's actually trying to get you to realize something that we already know?

yes Ubermancer, thats exactly the point, PvP is the end game of the game... Unlike WoW and other games that give you uber Loot or Godlike Armour

And therein lies GW's failure. It'd be the equivalent of devoting way more time + effort to the presearing portion of PvE than the rest of the game.

Point of GW = PvP. Development of GW = PvE. So the devs are developing content for something that isn't the point-why is this? No one knows.

This is a conjectural statement, and without proof, has no basis.

Since your opinion is that you dislike PvE in this game, I fail to see how you have anything to add to the conversation, of a constructive nature. Thank you for your input though. :-)


For those that still fail to read my original post in it's entirety, please understand the intention of this thread. I will reiterate it for everyone, as a reminder. This thread is here for constructive criticism of the game, with the goal of finding compromises and solutions to allow those that enjoy the game, to continue enjoying the game to the fullest extent possible. Posts here should reflect the attitude of helpfulness and willingness to provide positive ideas on what things could be made better, or reasons why things are best left as they are.

Thank you all in advance for remaining true to the purpose of this thread.

That's right, there will always be bad PUGs and that is precisely why most people take a dim view of them and should not be forced into them.

Your opinion of what equals fun - ie: forcing people to PUG against their will - is not more valid than the opinion of the majority of players who hate PUGs and do not want to be forced to group with them. It seems to be a common misconception among those who want to force everyone to PUG that their opinion of what fun is or how they like the game to be should be forced upon other players who hate their forced-PUG idea. That is not a correct way of thinking.

Despite many claims so from forced-PUG advocates, Guild Wars is not meant to be a forced-multiplayer game for PVE --- if one reads the back of some versions of the Guild Wars retail box it states that very clearly.

There are many reasons to still play an online game even if one does not enjoy the torture of enduring ludicrously bad PUG strangers. Ie: Titles, better-looking armor, emotes etc, all of which can be showed off to other people as good achievements in the game.

The suggestion to remove Guilds from the game to encourage PUGs is 100% just as valid as the suggestion to nerf Hero options. Both of them are equally unfair and ridiculous ideas.

Sorry, it's an objective fact. You have to work with facts to make any valid argument.

Fact 1: PvE gets much more time investment than PvP.
Fact 2: PvP takes skill to win.
Fact 3: PvE does not take skill to win.
Fact 4: Skills are balanced for PvP with a very tiny glance towards PvE.
Fact 5: Tournaments revolve around PvP.

Everything is focused on PvP except for development resources. This is why you're upset with the game-you've graduated from PvEschool in chapter 1, and you're ready for more. The problem is you can't admit to yourself that what you want is PvP, but you want more of it, in different sizes, etc. A.net is failing to deliver new content and balance to PvP, instead hoping that by throwing PvE expansions out the door they'll keep people happy, but they won't, which is the whole point of this thread. The reason PvE expansions don't keep you happy is that you're beyond PvE after playing it for a little bit. It'd be like reading Dr. Seuss books to yourself as a 30 year old. Sure you loved them as a kid, but are they really that enjoyable? No.

answered in your own words in the vey first post

1 person and 3 heroes. (4)

if they were not so accepted/popular you would not be trying so hard to get rid/limit them.

Trevor, I have attempted to be civil.

Your comments are opinions. Not facts.
Facts are backed up by numbers, statistics, or objective commentary.

No, PvP is not what I "really want"...I find it BORING. Not because I am not good at it...but because it simply does not appeal to me, just as professional sports do not appeal to me. I enjoy adventuring through a fantasy world with other people, in a cooperative environment. I find this enjoyable, even if you do not.

Please, stop trying to put words in my mouth, when you have no idea what I may find enjoyable. I find PvE VERY ENJOYABLE....I just would like to see a few things changed in the expansions, that would make them closer to the format and playstyle of the original Prophecies campaign.

I have made this a standing request. If you have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to add, do not post here. I think have made this point as clear as I can possibly make it.

This thread is for those that wish to communicate their ideas and concerns about the topics I specified in my O.P. to the developers of Arena-Net. Please either add to the discussion, or refrain from distracting the topic away from it's goal.

Trevor, from a fellow pvper to another, that is a bunch of bull-crap. The goal of GW is not to PvP. The goal of GW is to have fun. Whether you think PvE is fun is rather irrelevant to the question: 'do enough people think PvE is fun to dump development resources into it?' The answer to that question is yes and thus resources are put into PvE.

Stating that the end-game of PvE is PvP is also silly. It is solely up to the individual to decide what he will do once he has reached the end-game. If you wanna go and PvP then that is your end-game. If you wanna go farm your ass and get rich then that is your end-game. If you wanna grind titles then that is your end-game. There are plenty of options out there to keep yourself entertained besides PvPing. Heck, if I wanna decide my end-game is talking to fellow guildies then so be it! It might be a crappy end-game but it is an end-game non the less. The issue here is not that there is no end-game for PvEers in GW. The issue is that THERE IS end-game content, but that is becoming stale and boring.

When you look at games like WoW people seem to get confused as to what end-game really is. The main issue why WoW lasts so much longer is not because it has so much more end-game content. It is only because it takes so much longer to actually reach the end-game. In WoW, after you hit the max lvl cap you can still significantly improve your actual play by grinding out gear. Is that end-game content? Well, it depends on your definition. Personally I consider end-game content, end-game content: aka what can you do when your character is maxed out? In GW that translates to a ton of missions still being playable.

The main problem is not that GW has no end-game. The main problem is that GW has a very different view about what end-game should be. In WoW you get rewarded for playing and thus the end-game will consist of nothing else then trying to maximize those rewards. In fact, in WoW there is no actual endgame. The entire point of the game is to keep 'the end-game' as far as possible from the player.
In GW however there is no reward for playing, GW is trying to accomplish fun not through rewards but through actual gameplay. GW is hoping to grasp your attention and stay interesting even when you have the leetest gear around.

Ironically for alot of people the 'fun = actual gameplay'-principle will indeed translate to PvP (which in a way, underlines your point, but in another way doesnt) and that is the whole crux of the problem Anet is currently in. The actual gameplay in PvP is constantly changing. The actual gameplay in PvE however isn't. Whether slaughtering mobs in Kryta or in Elona, the only thing that really differs are the skins you're fighting. By trying to avoid meaningless grind that is propelled by a silly reward system Anet is starting to find themself in the situation where PvE becomes meaningless grind without any reward system.
They have to keep PvE fresh without turning to a reward system and atm it seems that their ideas are running dry. After three campaigns of essentially the same thing players will get bored of the actual gameplay simply because it isn't fresh enough.

Frankly, the only way I can see Anet will keep it's PvE customers is to come up with revolutionary new gameplay ideas OR give in to the reward frenzy and to start piling up PvE rewards.

Hmmm...how about another perspective...

I am 32.

I avoided all forms of MMOs because I did not want to play with other people...I did not want to have some 15 year old school me in PVP. I bit the bullet and bought GW. Still, I am 32. I have a family and a daughter. I cannot play uninterrupted all the time, so PUGs are out alot...If my daughter wakes up in the middle of a mission how many pugs would be cool with me going afk for 20 min whiel I rocked her back to sleep.

Enter the heros. Now I have an out...I can have some of the value of a PUG adn I have incentive to cap lots of skills and find lots of greens and golds. It also forces me to rethink my builds...I have 4 people to make up a team build...perhaps a segue into PVP?

I do the PUG thing a lot more now...I'm over the issues I had with just joining up with people. I helped an alliance member with gates of madness and 7 human players...ya know what...it was fun...

Back to the PUG...I still don't really like them...I do however like running with certain players in my guild/alliance or people that Ihave met along the way, so the spirit is there...I'll keep an eye out for you...If you say LFG...I'll join...you can even whisper me and we can get together...it'll be fun.

oh and BTW Trevor...I still love reading Dr. Suess books.

Wow!!! Reducing this discussion to a PvP vs. PvE arguement is just ridiculous. The fact of the matter is, that GW is meant to cater to BOTH PvE and PvP. If it were intended for the PvE side to be a "tutorial" for PvP, why did the devs originally set it up for people who complete the Hell's Precipice get sent to The Tomb of Primeval Kings (when it was a PvP place) instead of Droknar's Forge? And why is it that when a PvE player finishes Nightfall, they have access to, you guessed it - a new PvE area?!?! ( Don't forget about all the work that went into developing a story line and all that) (EDIT: Tortise hit it right on the head!)

Prior to this weekend, skill balances were done with very, very little input from the community. Now, they've found the wisdom to put skill changes to the test and look for feedback from the entire community. So everyone should recognize the vast improvement this testing method is over previous skill balance efforts. (Did y'all notice how the overwhelming majority of people who commented about Energy Surge all said that it shouldn't be changed? - without the test weekend, it would've been nerfed and everyone would have to live with it.)

I totally agree, and have been doing just that. I hope that my efforts will be duplicated and picked up by more people in the game. Ironically, my PUGs seem to do quite well, despite what everyone says about terrible PUGs.

I think us players can do a lot to improve things...and I think Arena-net can do some things to help. Let's explore how we can work together on it, shall we?

Just a couple of quick comments. I've been here since beta, and have suggested this on a couple of occasions. Eliminate the repetitive mobs that turn Guild Wars into a shooting gallery without the BFG, and initiate randomly generated enemies and bosses, fewer and more difficult to deal with. That ought to boost the replayability factor, as well as throw a monkey wrench into the farming bot problem.

I finally made a couple of monks, just to pay back the community for all of the healing that I received over the months, and because they seem so hard to find in game. They get plenty of invites , and my newest (with 2 protector titles -- both earned with PUGs) is still wearing her 1k Istani tribal outfit from back on the docks -- so much for the 15k armor, and she really looks unique out there, because almost no other monk is wearing it.

Thats awesome Mister Overhill
Monks rock, and the Monks that PUG regularly are doubly so. I salute you

BTW, Istani 1k stuff is great. I got a set for my Ranger, and I love it.

i totally agree on what Trevor says, GW is made for PvP, but the developers uses most of its time on PvE (that you also agree on sucks)

and about everyone that "play pvp" RA arent PvP, GvG with 8 guys at lvl 15 arent pvp, alliance battle arent pvp. so before you go call yourself a pvp'er you should know that that is,

My very first charater in GW was a monk, but I did not get far due to my noobishness...I am working on a monk now as i know how to play them better....Yeah monks...I just wish they had a monk like clas similar to the AD&D monks

Wise words... it kept bugging me for a while now: Why does prophecies have everything, and NF/Factions has the same environment?

It just doesn't make sense. When I bought factions, I thought of beaches, forests, dark mountains like the Ring of Fire chain, frozen water, beautiful wealthy Asian-themed cities...

I got an disguisting city and Jade Sea/Petrified Forest was un-enjoyable for me, since I needed the bloody faction to move on...

When I saw the Nightfall preview, I though of jungles with ancient temples, deserts like the ones in Prophecies and alot of good looking cities like Kamadan.

Now they gave us a big and almost empty plain stuffed with Kournans and Heket. Vabbi was really beautiful... the first 5 minutes you get there. I'm still amazed by the city, but it's just sand with cities on it.

Prophecies made me wanna go explore. I loved getting the 'wtf' moment when I discovered something new like the place between Kryta and Muguuma with the bone dragon. And what about Dragon's Gullet?

Prophecies was filled with secrets and cool places, and it's just fun going out with guildies or friends to explore. Factions had none of this. You had to do the quest to move on, and there was almost nothing to explore.

Nightfall was an improvement, you could GO everywhere, but where you went, there were no good things to see. This has been helped a little with Treasure Chests, but they don't compare to the unique places in Prophecies.

OKay...I guess that leave TA and HoH?

so that is PVP and everything else is just not the real thing? Please let me know....I don't want to continue to waste my time with PVE and then trying those other parts of the game that are tainted.

Well he posted that to keep the thread nice and comprehensive, which you are kind of ruining with the whole "A.Net statistics blah blah" attitude. This isn't an "A.Net is in danger of losing my business" thread. It's not some doomsday whine. Try to understand the tone he wants here

He wants a rational discussion from those of us who, among other things, miss the feel of a community in Guild Wars. You don't miss it? That's great! This discussion is not for you. If you want a discussion about how much the Guild Wars community rules, you are free to make a thread about it and ask that people don't post how much they hate the community in there.

To see his request, just say "that's stupid" in your head, and comment in the exact way he specifically wanted to avoid having in this thread is pretty rude There is no reason to argue here. The OP put a lot of time and thought into this topic and respectfully requested a discussion thread instead of a standard flame war thread. It would be refreshing if everyone just respected that.

Anyway, I have to say I agree with you on many levels, Chet....

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The Fall of Camelot
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I think that was a poor, and a little overly harsh, choice of wording. The essense of the game is debatable. Is it the player community? Is it the online PvP aspect? Is it the PvE aspect? Is it the farming potential? Everyone has a different idea of what the "essence" of Guild Wars is.

What I think we should focus on is the multiplayer PvE side of things. It's hard to say that that aspect of the game hasn't suffered and, quite honestly, one of the things that initially drew me to Guild Wars was grouping up, meeting nice people who know how to have fun in the game, and then playing with those strangers.


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PVE vs PvP - Who Wins?
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This is an averdebated subject and including it kind of doomed your topic on some levels. Personally, I think A.Net juggles the two as well as they can. Skill balances for PvP, AI balances for PvE, etc. etc.

I don't think this is really a source of any real problems....and I don't even play PvP any more beyond RA.


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The Fellowship is Broken
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Now I won't say having Heroes isn't nice. It certainly is. I love not being restricted by other people and their play-time schedules. What is a problem is that they actually made Heroes more appealing than players you don't know.

Alas, done is done and the use of Heroes will only increase from here on out. My first character through Nightfall (I haven't finished the game yet) has only used PUGs 3-4 times and he is now at the Gate of Madness.

Let's face it, custom party builds, godlike interrupt reflexes, placement control, and half the party using player builds, player items, yet with the desire to please only you! Then the contrary, pinging the mini-map and hoping the players will know what you're talking about, hoping the ones who know what you're talking about will listen to you, and dealing with all the problems that come with PUGing for the sole purpose of having company while you play.

So there you have it. They managed to make computers more appealing than people and that's all there is to it. Unfortunately, that moves the game itself towards a more single player genre and leads to people feeling like some of us feel.

What can be done? The best solution I can think of is increasing the loot potention by X ammount for each real person in your party. All Heroes do is take their share of the loot, but I have a feeling that if the quality of all loot increased based on the number of real people doing the quest, mission, or outing (whatever it may be), then many more people would be looking for groups and Heroes would be more of a backup for those who either don't want to deal or just want to get stuff done on their own.


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For the love of Money
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On the topic of Green Items, I really don't see how they matter. The only reason they can charge what they charge is because people will pay that much. There will always be people willing to pay unbelievable ammounts of gold for items. Every single online RPG in history has shown us that.

Unless I find it myself, I'll take a collectors weapon and mod it myself, thank you. I will never understand why people care so much when they can always get the exact same weapon for a fraction of what people charge for gold items. The people who care about item prices have dug their own graves, in my opinion, and I'll continue to let them do so.


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Farmer Joe
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Ah, the farming topic...

1) First let's consider this, has anything A.Net has done had any effect whatsoever? Ok, they banned accounts and made the farmers buy more. Ok, they nerf builds and make the farmers find new ones. In the end, I can hop on ebay and buy 1k Platinum today just as easily as I could have 1 year ago. Nothing has changed, despite all their efforts, and odds are nothing will.

2) Again, you want to know how they could stomp out farming? Add gold to the things you can buy in the store. Many people still wouldn't buy it but the only real difference would be players money going to A.Net instead of to China. I know there's questions of ethics involved but it's pretty hard to despute that as the only difference in end-result.


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Deja Vu!
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Agreed.

Tyria spanned multiple continents with different different races and a story line that spanned from Charr to Dwarves to Creatures to Humans to Dragons to Demons. Climates and landscapes from fertile hills to seared landscapes to frosty mountains to jungle/rainforest to desert to caverns to frosty mountains again and finally ending on a volcanic isle. Tyria was vast and held so much variety that it felt like multiple chapters in a long adventure.

Factions was all held on a single continent and went from dirty alleys/sewers that put the 'ghet' back in ghetto to thick jungle and back to the ghetto. There is one enemy (Shiro), locked gates, and mainly human enemies. One of the new classes is a lesser armored melee and is forced to fight massive groups of enemies that all explode upon death.

Then came Nightfall. It's a nice happy medium but still has a single threat and a very linear story line. The landscapes are a vast improvement and the explorability is restored but, again, there's not as much variety as you see in the original. (For the record, I was grinning like a retard when I finished the first worms mission. That was great fun!)

So what does this mean? Hopefully the next chapter will find us facing a multifaceted threat with the legend of our heroes spanning through all the races of the land we find ourselves upon.


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Closing thoughts
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SO what we end up with is this.

1) Find a way to make playing with real people more advantageous in some way than playing with Heroes/Henchmen and try to bring some appeal back to playing with others instead of sitting home and playing alone.

2) A story where you start out with smaller threats and work your way up to the big guns is much more fun that the single enemy sending increasingly more powerful enemies at you. Not that I think we need the same story again, mind you. I'm simply saying that sometimes simple is far from best.

3) Whatever has been done to eliminate farming has not worked and continuing on the same path with not suddenly start working. Buying gold outside the game for real cash is just as easy as ever and, if A.Net really wants it to stop, they will have to change tactics and find a way to get ahead of the Chinese farming sweat houses instead of just reacting to what they do.

Yeah, that's it. Sorry the response ended up so long but I hope somebody enjoyed it.

double post :\

Triple post

My Ele crawled outta the primordial slime of presearing 20 months ago according to /age and since then two things have increasingly bothered me, so i guess i pass the "long time, disgruntled" thing ^^

First, a global party-finding option which doesnt require you to stand around in one place waiting. New search removes the need to spam and zone, but ya still gotta loiter around, wasting time which could be spent doin more exciting things like watching grass grow. For a game which is supposed to be focused on teamplay the options for actually finding a team are really subpar and a great deal of the "Wheres the PUG at?" problem roots in that. If i wanna wait i go to the doctor, heroes why yes, why is this even online and why keep i buying this when other single player games have way more content?

Second, better trade system. Heck, whats the big deal. A free, browser based game like Kingdom of Loathing made by like 2 guys i think can have a great mall system, so why cant GW? Pah.

Another voice in the chorus i guess, but who knows if it gets loud enough maybe, just maybe...

Chet a very well written post, I agree with some of your points

First for the negatives
Player etiquette

Player etiquette is at an all time low, just visit pre-searing Ascalon. I dance most nights in AM dist 1 on Dollz to the Walls and I have seen some very poor behaviour. An example from just last night, a random players walk up to a person and started to abusing them (your ugly, I did your mom, b#tch, [email protected]^)

When people do join a group they don’t give a greeting or farewell when leaving, some don’t talk at all until ½ into the mission when they call the group noobs and then map out. When I first started back in the day it was all about having a good time, we talked, joked and had a great time, sure we died on occasion but that just made the game a bigger challenge...


The abuse of the trade and local chat is very antisocial.

The lack of normal discussions in towns is drowned out by abuse / mindless spam and trade spam. Last week in pre 2 players from the same district posted this

No
Yes
Get Out
You don’t say
Eggs
Milk
I did your mom
Me too
I had $#@ with my sister
OO
No way
Get Out

This went on for the next hr with no stops to let normal discussion continue when put on the ignored list they just made new characters and repeated

Absence of real new content & surroundings
A prim example is factions; we see many of the same areas used for repeat quests all with the same NPC enemy groups and the forced backtracking over the same covered ground for different missions. Nightfall gets old very fast I just can’t force myself to do all the sunspear grind again. After a day of nightfall or factions I find myself wishing for the pre player’s antisocial behaviour at least that was imaginative.

The lack of indoor areas to visit. No homes, pubs, shops, church.

And why did we have to lose the gamble feature from towns? Or the old style skill crafters?

Lack of character individuality
Character personalisation is limited so that we end up with a town full of clones.
In the Holy Champions of Justice guild Luthien and Cami both have rangers that could be twins. We need a lot of work in the character creation area, a larger selection of face, eye colour, hair lengh/style clothing, girth, width, makeup, town cloths, race ie elf, dwarf, orc

The positive aspects I love
My guild mates and all the friends I have made from all over the world.

The great epic battles that we have fought Thunderhead keep, The villainy of G or the titans quests, all epic battles that took team work to complete.

I loved the first game with all the different environments, loved the great looking vistas and the hard to reach places. I was so proud when I first made my way to the Citadel and the Grotto.

The jokes and references to other games and movies hidden in names and skills

Increase in pets
I loved the update of the armour dye system.
The storage improvements
The Hero’s for use only when no real players free
Elite Skills

As Chet said I find it harder to feel motivated to stay and play the game atm, completing the game once was ok but now it feels like work.

My wish list for A-Net

Please Anet give us a better trade system that is separate from the chat

More character customization, Hair, face, clothing, underwear, ornaments and the ability to have a fat character.

More normal house pets that we can charm i.e. Cat, Dog, Fish, Bird, Snake, rabbit, bees or a horse.

More random enemy npc generation in all areas so that it’s not the same group of thugs each time.

More indoor areas that we can visit with items we can interact with.

The ability to steal items from homes or people would be great for a thief class.

The ability to purchase a home and furnish it, grow food, get married.

The addition of more NPC characters in towns, visit most cities’ and you see maybe 20 npc’s… talk about inbreeding. What happened to all the children? In life kids are always playing outside, playing ball games, hide and seek running games but not in GW.

Anyway I will still be here if they don’t change things but the next game had better be a lot better or my $$ will stay in my bank account

I've been saying that as well and I've seen others suggest it too. It really would make PVE a lot more replayable and a lot less tedious. I like your "shooting gallery without the BFG" description because that's exactly what it is. It's just boring to kill swarm after swarm of monsters because after a while it's just repetitive.

Just some ideas:

Manditory heroes for some missions and quests - bad idea, let them be replaced by human players, If I want to play with 7 friends on these I can't.

Having to equip them - good as a gold sink bad in practice for casual gamers. Let players outfit their heroes with a PvP character creation style, and be able to equip them as they can be now.

Locked Gates - good idea to prevent people from running through entire game and then saying they are bored, bad idea cause people are bored with having to follow the storyline. Leave the gates closed for first character through storyline, but allow for jumping ahead liek we could in Prophecies. There would still be those missions/quests you must do (sanctum cay, ascension, thk - and pretty much all of the fire islands).

Beautiful vistas in rarely explored/not needed areas - in Prophecies there were areas you didn't have to go to in order to finish the game, and most of those areas have very interesting sights, with Factions and Nightfall these areas just don't exist, because every zone and outpost is used in the storyline, leaving very little to explore after completing the game. How many players do you know that got GMC Elona just playing the game?

On a final note: Nightfall was supposed to be the end of a trilogy, answering questions and closing the story of the 2 prior chapters, why then after playing through NF on 4 characters do I feel I have more questions now than before NF? Here are a few:
1. What happened to the Murzaat city on the Ullen river?
2. Gwen
3. Where are the Murzaat from? Isle of Janthir?
4. Gwen
5. What is the Seer's whole beef with the Murzaat and do they feel the same way?
6. Gwen
7. Dhuum? Menzies? the old gods?
8. Gwen
9. Why don't the other 3 Gods have their own realms?
10. Gwen
11. Why is a brick of mud and a clay brick still in the game?
12. Gwen, preserved red iris flower, sure taunt us some more. At least let us know if there is anything that is in game no-one has found yet, or there is nothing to find, please for pete's sake.
I could go on and on...

Open it up A-net, make us feel like we are in control of our characters destiny, try not forcing us into playing exactly the way you want us too. This worked extremely well in Prophecies why would you get rid of a game mechanic that so many enjoyed? Especially when it has little to do with balance.

Oh, and bots, some GM's to watch the hotspots (we all know where they are), wouldn't more than a few per region, and I'm sure you could bring in players to do this for free (just like alpha/beta testing). Give them the power to ban bots, yeah it could be abused, but it would be better than what's being done now.

<--long time player.

Heres my suggests to put this game back on the map.

1) Connect the chapters into one world map and bring the community back together

2) Get rid of closed instances and load screens. Open up the world so anyone can adventure anywhere they like. This opens up the door to make new friends during your adventures. (its all about the community and bringing people together, not spreading them across diffrent chapters and leaving people out.)

3) Keep the skill balancing for PvP, but leave us PvE'rs alone. Get some experienced programmers to get rid of the botters and reset the farming to the way it was in the beginning. Let mobs take AOE and dont restrict us from farming the same spot over and over and over and over. Let people enjoy the game the way they see fit as long as its not hurting other players, I dont see a problem.

4) Remove the chokehold you have on us, and let us enjoy the parts of the game we want to enjoy without having to do missions/quests to advance further. Not everyone like doing missions and quests, and quite honestly I find most of them rather boring and uninspiring.

5) Get rid of heroes, they ruin the gaming community. Even the henches ruin it to a certain extent. We need the community to come together, and the only way to do that is to force them to work together as a team. Theres no need to do that anymore and its really sad and lonely.

We just need our freedom to enjoy the game again as we see fit, as long as it doesnt hurt others in the process. Give us back our freedom and we will love you for it.

Unfortunately, you have pushed me off to other free online games.

I bought Prophecies
I bought Factions
I bought 2 Copies of Nightfall (1 collector)

Man did I make a huge mistake. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I won't be fooled again, and I wont be buying future chapters unless I see some serious changes to improve this once great game.

Damn this makes me sad.