inscribable crystallines! a temporary thing, or a permanent addition?

Not likely.

They drop NF only stuff.

I very much doubt it.

Really? iv had a long sword drop for me

Long sword is a core weapon...

if there real collectors they'll go for the +15% unconditional mod that was on a few swords a few days after the game came out

this is the most intelligble post i have yet seen in this thread.
i couldnt have written it better myself.

ahem, now for my own little spiel.
im one of the few people in this thread who actually owns an 8 15>50 crystalline (uninscribed), and let me say for the record, i couldnt give less of a shit how many other people owned one.
i didnt care before i got it, i didnt care when i got it, and i dont care now. the amount of people who own a particular skin has NEVER stopped me from aquiring an item that i liked.
i do, however, appreciate the sanctity of a collectible. something anet obviously disagrees with for some odd reason.
as almost anyone who plays with me can tell you; i dont even use my crystalline (even though its custom) quite frankly, i dont even like the skin. the primary reason i own it is simple; a long time ago i told myself i wanted a complete collection of items in GW...and that goal has been achieved.
granted i have left out ch1/2 items for the sole reason that i deem no collectibility in items with virtually no rarity.
no sense in building a collection that can be aquired in a week.
my point is that contrary to what many people believe its not necissarily a good thing to be able to have everything at ease. the fact that many people chalk off the high price of items to the "greedyness" of traders displays exactly how little they understand about the game, not realizing that the traders dont guide the prices nearly as much as the farmers do, they're just better at exploting the minute differences. same with crystallines...if you wanna call people greedy for hiking up crystalline prices, call the pvpers greedy.
but this isnt a blame-game.
i think you guys just need to realize that having an 8 15.50 crystalline wont make you uber. it wont make you better, it wont make you cooler, and it sure as shit doesnt stand as an emblem for skill.
however, you also need to realize the value of something to work towards.
high-rarity skins are the pve equivilant of the solver-coated capes of the top gvg guilds, and the rank-emotes of HAers, imagine anet selling those for piddance, after people had worked hard for them?
my issue with inscripted items has two main arguments:
A: if you inscribe whats already been in the game for a long time, you essentially disregard the opinions of the players who have been most loyal, this shows a type of fortitude the company. i understand the move from a marketing position, but that doesnt necissarily mean i think its a good idea.
B: if you're going to do something like this, do it from the beginging of the game, so that all players start off on equal footing.
i disagree with it for the same reason i disagree with the ability to buy skill unlocks for real money; its like changing the rules mid-game, and shows a total disregard for the work people have done.

owning vanity items is just that...vanity items. they have NO bearing on your ability to play, what so ever.
i dont take issue with other people owning them, but i do take issue with anet removing yet another goal for people to achieve.
and the old-world-players and traders didnt quit because of items, they quit because GW is (for a fact) not a very long game in terms of full-on pve gameplay. and games get booring when you've completed them for the 15th time. but, gw happens to have fewer meta-game activites than most other mmorpgs. and no, i dont want GW to be like other mmorpgs, nor do i wish to play other ones, but i also dont want to see anet remove everything thats had to achieve from the game, simply because enough people bitch and moan that they are having too many problems achieving what they want.

^^
word

Now to go stare at my unconditionals... until anet deletes them.

1 Agree with you Akhilleus. Just like in another thread long ago. And we are seeing the real effects of it.

Wow, great post Akhilleus. As for crystalline's I have one and I like it, looks pretty on my monk. But thats about it, I got one because it was something I wanted. What is funny is I don't even use it or my other rare swords and use a wintergreen sword now, its more functional and has the mods I want. If people want a dumbed down easier to obtain item, then they need to grow up and work for theirs too. Set a goal, you might achieve something and be able to afford a nice crystalline or fow armor or w/e one day.

Wow. I didnt realize crystalline swords are a sign of maturity now. I guess all us "noobs" need to "grow up" and "work" for an item in a video game.

Here's the Aston Martin again:

I really want that Aston Martin DB9.
But I cannot afford it right now.
And with my current income, I never will.
But, if I work my but off for the next 15 years and save all I can, I probably afford it then.
I could also get a better job, given that one excists and I have the right education / background. Perhaps in a market that I think is developing, to generate even more income.
I could also just wait till I win the lottery.

This is not about 'noobs' anymore.
People that own the crystalline have:
- been very, very lucky, it dropped for them (lottery)
- worked hard when farming was easier or developed an adjusted build (better job)
- been working even harder with the nerfed farming (work your butt off)

Why could real world mechanics not be applied in a video game?

Or should all gamers be equal, like the animals in Orwell's Animal Farm?

I do not think ANet is in the business of changing gold/random items.

Akh, this is the most sensible post coming from one of the "anti inscribable crystallines" party.
I bolded some sentences which offer a subject of discussion about the choice of A.net to make crystallines, but also gothic swords + some new skins, inscribable.

Starting from your conclusion ... I don't think that this move has been motivated by a huge mass of people complaining they couldn't get a crystalline for cheap. Never seen in any forum tons of threads like "OMG prices of crystallines are crazy, how I as a casual player who plays 1 hour per week am supposed to get it 2 days after I bought the game?" and stuff like that.
My idea is that A.net needed to revamp interest in HA and has done this introducing more items, some also new as the Mallyx-like sword.
They also catered for middle-high wealthy players, those who probably have worked enough hard to afford something in the range of 2-3 millions, but have no interest and huge time to spend looking for something around 10-12 millions.

They can simply deem that that target is not worth the time they should spend, and time is the only real resource we put in a game, not many people are willing to multiply by 4-5 the time they already spend, for obvious real life reasons.

Especially now that making money requires much more time than in the past (don't forget that there was a period in which it was nearly a joke to raise 50+ ectos per day), those player could simply give up, and maybe lose interest. So that target for them is removed.

Now that the target looks less impossible, their interest might revamp, and the result is that A.net has not removed a target as you say, but has given a new target to a player base which is numerically more significant than the elite of those with more than 10 millions.


Now, I have a supposition about all the story of insignias and inscriptions.

Most of us have always thought that insignias and inscriptions have been introduced to make easier the acquisition of statwise perfect items with whatever skin, to please a large majority of players.

But maybe there's another reason: is it possible that insignias and inscriptions have been introduced to simplify (and make more reliable and accurate) the damage calculations during battles?

I don't actually know how the algorithms work, only A.net knows, but before insignias crafters had a huge list of armors with inherent bonuses.
It's possible that the inherent bonus (i.e. + 15 armor against piercing) was in some way associated to the code of that piece of armor.
Now crafters have just a list of 9-10 items, and then you have to put insignias.

So maybe before insignias the damage calculation algorithm had to estract the damage reduction bonus from the code of the piece of armor and process it. Now the algorithm needs only to know the AL and the insignia, and it's possible that the calculations are faster and more accurate.
Maybe the same can be applied to weapon.

If this is true, that the insignias/inscription system also simplyfies some algorithms used in game, it's possible that A.net will not introduce any other new non inscribable item, all new items will come with inscriptions, and maybe sooner or later make all armors and weapons being able to be in some way "inscribable".
Many players are loudly requesting this for their FoW armors for instance ...

I dont get what why you think that Incribable crystalines will end good old days of 10+ mil weapons.

first, they created extreme rarity item: gold max crystaline with inherent mod. Discontinued, no longer dropping. Whenever someone customizes one it disappears from market for good and increased price of what is left even more.

(Maybe somoene could be extremelly lucky to have decent one drop in prohecies but there was no non-chest drop confirmed iirc.)

2nd, they made crystaline junk (i am talking purple 13% vs hexed for 100k+10e) reall junk. removed dead end of market.

Prices will go down because non-perfect crystallines drop rather (not alot) frequently. Now, a req 8 15^50 Crystalline is godlike. It's like an item you can only dream to obtain or get enough cash to buy it.

When inscriptions come, all req 8 Crystallines can get the 15^50. So the rarity will go down, and with that, the people wanting to buy it is less as well. (I'm not gonna collect cash for a year and then spend it on an item that has reduced value)

Crystalline Swords are part of the 'end-game items'. Obtaining one is virtually impossible, unless you really try hard and collect cash for it. People have done this, and are proud on their crystalline swords they worked very hard for (and they have the right to be proud). Now, A-net comes and reduces the value of Crystalline Swords. I understand how people feel.

I haven't got a crystalline sword yet, but I was collecting cash for it. I gave up on it now, as when inscriptions come again, it's gonna be worth less than now, anyway.

You typed all that just to "prove" that you have to "grow up" in order to get a crystalline sword? Come on. You and I both know it was a ridiculous statement to say.

It has nothing to do with equality or anything. Telling someone to "grow up" and get a crystalline sword is like me telling PVE players to "grow up" and go play some PVP instead. It's just laughable.

i think the lowest req for an inscribable would be req9, isnt it?

I don't read zara said that people without crystalline need to grow up.
I also don't read he (she?) said that you need to grow up to get the sword.

He said:

Which to me does say nothing more than that they should stop complaining about something they don't have and they should work for the thing, just like zara did.

People who complain about all things others have and they don't have probably are good friends of Calimero (cartoon).

Well you can skew the interpretation in whichever way you want. It's pointless for me to talk about it any further if you're in denial.

Also, this is more of a thread of people complaining that crystallines are now inscriptable rather than people "complaining" about having to work. I for one, have said plenty of times that I dont care for the sword or any other "uber" item. And I've mostly seen people supporting the inscription idea, NOT complaining.

So maybe we should rethink who should be "growing up" here. Not directed at you personally, The_jos.

a wise man one said "if god wishes to punish us, he but need grant us our wishes."
the reason people arent complaining is simple; they're too excited about the benefit this provides them with on a personal level.
i have argued against MANY things that would benefit me personally because im capable of realizing that what works for the individual, and what works for the whole, are two entirely different things.
and i can guarantee you most of the anti-inscriptionists in this thread do not own perfect crystallines.
why then do they take the side of arguing against them?
for the same reason i do; they realize that its yet another meta game goal thats being shafted for the sake of people who gripe, and thats a damn shame.
if tomorrow anet announced that it was giving each and every guildwars player 1 million gold, do you honestly think the number of people arguing against it would outnumber the number of people who cheered it on?
answer: no.
but if i have to explain to why why that would be a god awful idea, then you've already proven my point for me.

my point?
just because a majority of people like something for the individual benefits, doesnt mean its necissarily a great idea.
am i screaming impending doom because of this?
no.
but, like all things there are some unintended consequences. this is just another mark in the LONG list of things anet has done to alienate some of its oldest most loyal players, i just hope people come around to realize that doing these kinds of things over and over can be an issue before its too late.
alas, that wont be the case, because for the time being their too blinded by their inscriptable weapons and ability to buy pvp unlocks to really care about anything beyond their own interests.

You do not read

who cares about inscriptions?

15^50 crystalines whose 15 does NOT come from inscription are point here.

Value of original perfect crystalines got major buff, and will continue to raise.

But you're assuming that ANET made these changes simply because people were complaining about not being able to get these rare items. Where exactly is the proof of this? Maybe that's just the direction they've always leaned towards.

And most complaints come from these power traders and farmers who don't like these changes. You see a lot more threads pop up about how their items are worthless now more than you'd see threads of people asking ANET to make rare items easier to get. And people who are for the inscriptions, only complain as a reaction to the anti-inscriptionist's complaints.

And really, this game has always been about making it casual. That's the bottomline. I know that there's the whole "achievement" thing going on with flaunting your millions on a sword but I dont understand the outrage and suprise considering that this has always been more of a casual game. That's my point here.

Edit: One more thing about your statement here:

You're making a LOT of assumptions and speculations with that statement there. You're saying that the "oldest most loyal players" are the ones who have tons of money and crystallines swords up the wazoo. That's insulting to the rest of the "loyal" customers. I doubt the majority of old players have that kind of wealth. So maybe Anet IS thinking about it's loyal players and that's the rest of the players.

And really, playing a lot for lots of wealth has nothing to do with your loyalty to Anet. You just like it and so you do it.

in your dreams maybe. all prices of inscribable skins has dropped even if the item was oldschool or not. the reason: the skin with a perfect dmg mod is NOT rare anymore. ppl do a shit about inscription slot or not.

I like that there is a rare item that costs lots of gold. It something for people to work towards. For instance, the first fellblade I ever got I was really excited about, even though it was req. 10. Its things like this that gets so many people addicted to other games. Now think of what would happen if the prize was not purely cosmetic, if some new sword had the possibility of being 16-23, req.7 (pve only, of course). I'm a casual player so I couldn't afford any of this (the most I've ever had is 15k...), but it saddens me to see this game dieing. In maybe only a few chapters, Anet will have run out of cool skins, and the price of the crystalline will be much lower, but the damage cap will still be 15-22 for swords, 7-17 for daggers etc... Just like you can only have so many different professions, and so many different skills. Anet wont be able to keep up with its 2 professions per chapter.

Anyway, I'm all for balanced gameplay, but PVE is so boring now that I can't even stand getting my character to where it supposedly starts to get fun.

I see these new weapons, inscribable crystallines/dwarvens/whatevers, as I would see an AC Cobra 427 replica. There are countless shops which can sell you the kit or actually deliver a built replica for roughly $40-50 thousand dollars, yet the originals will still command upwards of in the millions. The replicas are a realistic and more practical alternative for us common folk to appropriate such a vehicle, not to mention having the bonus features of what modern technologies can provide (airbags, inscriptions, etc).

I'm quite certain that serious car collectors could give 2 shits about the number of replicas that are available on the market. The replicas aren't even part of the same league, much less same sport, as the original Cobras. Those collectors know how many of the original vehicles exist, who currently owns them, and if they are available or not, and they'll set the prices accordingly.

However common the replicas may be, this still does not devalue the originals, due to their rarity. Apparently (according to wikipedia) on January 22, 2007 at the Barrett-Jackson Collector Car Event in Scottsdale, Arizona, Caroll Shelby's CSX 3015 was auctioned off for $5.5 Million USD (a record for Cobras).

Just a little food for thought. Of course, this is coming from one who is amongst the po' people (having an incomplete stack (singular) of ectos). With that in mind, if anyone is ragequitting over the new inscribable weapons and forecasted doom of the game, can I have your stuff?

I think you forgot about the following update. We all know how broken the 15%FFS were (you know, all 20 of them in existence... at the time). I assume it's something against things I own

Thats because how much Anet loves you CAPT

K, so please find me an r8 15>50 crystalline for sale. O, um, yeah, you cant as they are so rare..... So, I guess they go up in value due to their rarity seeing as they no longer drop any more. Well they would if all the insanely rich hadnt quit already.

And I am pissed as I wanted one and I doubt another r8 15>50 non inscriptable crystalline will ever be available again. R9 or 10 dont cut it im afraid as I am buying one purely for the rarity factor.

O and Guild Wars was not for casual play. It was for balance without grind so your inscriptable crystallines for all as less grind argument fails.

Herb has it spot on IMO. The old style Crystallines will indeed rise in value because they will no longer drop. An example, the HoD sword..no one thought anything of it when it was available from the collector but as soon as it was nerfed it suddenly became an 100k+ item.

It's very obvious that the old crystallines will lose value since the new inscribable ones are both - rarer (there are a lot of the old crytallines around and it will take months until theres a remotely comparable supply of the new ones) AND more useful (you can customize them completely to your needs as many times as you want).

I understand that some owners of old crystallines don't like that development and want to "talk up" the value of them. But that's irrational and i don't think people will fall for this since the new inscribable crystallines are both rarer and more versatile...

Req 9 inscribable 15^50 brute swords are hovering in the 25-35k range.
Req 9 noninscribable 15^50 brute swords are (last I visited LA) in the 100k+20e range, which seems to me to be a big drop from what they were before inscriptions came out.

Reason: Brute swords are a damn fine skin, but now anyone who wants to skin for the looks alone would buy the inscribable (read: cheaper and more effective) version. This cuts out a significant portion of the buyer base for the perfect noninscribable versions, as well as cuts out a significant portion of the player base that sees a brute sword and goes "oooh cool". Therefore, the noninscribable price dropped.

I can see this happening with crystallines as well, hopefully to a lesser extent. Ironically, it will probably be the fact that crystallines are generally considered fugly that will save its price, as few people want to buy one for any reason other than the "1337ness" of it.

Well actually I seem to remember something somewhere in a galaxy far far away, well it was a forum i think that anet actually changed all unconditional 15% 's to 15^50.

It'd be kewl if this wasn't the case & please anyone if you have one come show me but I definately saw that stated somewhere.


hmm......so many many damn forums to browse...............


Oh and to the guy or gal that isnt bothered about owning that crystaline, why don't you give it to someone then?

........i know you said it custom but someone would still have it im sure.....something tells me you won't though :P

Completey wrong in my opinion. Old school crystalines WILL not raise in price. My old school sephis sure hasn't.

Bane, your example of HoD swords are erroneous. Lets look at what really happened with the HoD sword. HoD swords skyrocketed in price because there was no way to get more supply of them. Just like the prenerfed rockmolder back when they changed the stats of the ones that droped but couldn't change the stats of exiting ones. It was unobtainable and thus had value. Demand was high and supply wasn't just low (like with 8^15 crystaline) but limited and fixed. Only so many HoD swords existed and they were used in a popular build. Guess what? When Factions came out HoD swords plumetted in value because +5 weapons could drop naturally or come from crafters. Now with I have the power inscriptions, +5 weapons cost even less.

Please find me ONE person who will pay 100k+ for a HoD sword now (which has a lame gladius skin I might add) for nostalga value.
That is the same logic you are using for the old crystalines and I'm sorry to tell you the number of hardcore collectors who value non-inscribed weapons as more "pure" then inscribed ones do not exihibt adaquete control over the market to affect prices on high demand items.

Sorry for the double post but I got to respond to this.
Caroll Shelby was the founder of the Cobra company. His car was one of a kind and was AMAZING. The thing is, that had value not because it was rare, but because it was unique.
I'd equate that thing more to the rarity of some crystaline sword that deals 20-40 damage. Of course if something actually has better performance it will cost more.

Brute swords are kinda iffy, some people really hate them. At any rate, inscribable weapons don't hurt the perfect weapons market as much as it kills the imperfect weapons market, which basically makes it harder for a newer player to make money.

Anyhow, if this post is to be believed, noninscribable stuff still drops too, though - assuming new drops are split between inscribable and noninscribable - getting a req 8 15^50 will be even harder. Prices for anything above req 9 or below 15^50 will probably crater.

@cap: Arenanet so far has only been able to change items that aren't randomly generated - crafter, collector, quest reward, and green items. It's probably difficult for them to find things like unconditionals because each dropped item has random values - I'm guessing that's why they haven't changed old staves to 20% universal HSR yet. But who knows, it could be a matter of time.

They still exist, end of story.

The rate at which req 8 15^50 crystallines are produced are so low you might as well consider them "limited and fixed" for the life span of Guild Wars. The rate at which all crystallines are produced isn't so low.

Because sephises from the Desolation have been flooding the market.

I don't think the perfect crystallines will raise much in price from this change, but I doubt they'll drop either. They still have their place. Anyone who has an imperfect crystalline got the shaft though.

In my oppinion Savio speeks the truth. Req 8 15^50s will likely not be hurt, and may even increase in value. But everything else (with the possible exception of r9 natural 15^50s) will take a nose-dive. Non-perfects will completely tank and infact allready have, probably due to the fact that the drop rate for crystalines seems to have drasticaly increased lately.

Rockmolder

(character limit)

as somebody mentioned earlier and seeing the direction Anet is going, sooner or later we will be seeing a green crystalline.

That would nice. I would be able to make lots of money off it.

I don't like the idea of making Crystalline Swords more common and easier to get. Not because I'm an elitist and have to have the *coolest* and *rarest* of skins but because the Crystalline is ugly and I hate seeing it. If it became more common I'd be seeing them more often. And that's a bad thing.