Protector Of X and Hard Mode ? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 00:15 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

There is one higher rank, which--if this "protector and guardian stack" thing goes through--will be completely meaningless as well.

Oh, let me think for all of 2 seconds...

Perhaps a 3rd rank is in order then?

Helcaraxe

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

On top of a mountain

A Bad Moon Rising [Moon]

Me/Mo

15 Feb 2007 at 00:15 - 42

I dont mind the change... what I mind is that I can't start maxing it right now, this is messed up... just like the sunspear title now I can't max my protector titles AT ALL!

As of right now, hard mode hasnt even been added, or I am blind... If they are going to implement this change then they should at least have the title be able to maxed right away.

Yagyu_Jyubei

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Czech rep.

15 Feb 2007 at 00:15 - 43

I must say I agree with everything Kakumei said.....only the lazy people are crazy about it lol...any ideas what hard modes could contain...I'm thinking of some heavy environmental effects or maybe reduced party size..or just higher level foes...I mean Hard Mode in the Great Northern Wall wth foes lvl 6 I don't think so...

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

15 Feb 2007 at 00:19 - 44

I just hope that they change it back, because otherwise they'd be lying to us. That, or there is some *serious* discommunication going on here. No matter the reason, I'd be gone from this. Good game.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

15 Feb 2007 at 00:20 - 45

So there's a glitch. They did say there were changes coming to the Protector titles. My question is "What's the glitch and how are the changes going to look after they fix the glitch?" (I'll save my whining against the possible need for it after the glitch is resolved.) It's quite interesting that:

A. They made no mention of title track changes on their update page.

B. They didn't make any changes to the skill hunter title track, even though over 80% of the people polled over the past 3 or 4 months said they wanted it.

and

C. No mention of resolving the Sunspear title maxing issue.

P.S: There are "degrees of difficulty" when going for the protector titles. Getting the title with guildies is easier than doing it with henchies. Doing it with henchies is easier than doing it with PUGs. Doing it with PUGs is easier than doing it with PUGs and being a Mesmer, assasssin, or ritualist. (because it's so hard for these professions to get into PUGs - that's why)

annika

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2007

15 Feb 2007 at 00:21 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Holy shit.

I honestly can't fathom why people are so upset over this, bug or not.

They changed the requirements to max the easiest titles in the game. I don't see why this is such a problem--they're just making KoaBD that much harder to get, which is definitely a good thing. It's supposed to be a prestigious title.

I can see where you're coming from, but the way they handled it is just plain old fashioned bad customer relationship management. For someone to get one of the "protector" titles - sure, that can happen incidentally, and isn't that hard or rare. However, many players who worked hard towards capturing all three "protector" titles did so based on the assumption that completion would contribute to "kind of a big deal".

Given that it takes a time commitment (if not necessarily a skill commitment) to complete 65 missions, finding out that GW arbitrarily stripped that achievement away with an update is quite disappointing.

Not because of KOBD (I don't have it, and don't care if I ever do), but because it devalues the entire titles system. One arbitrary title means that all titles are arbitrary, and can have higher ranks or different requirements assigned at a whim.

And what should be scary for Arenanet is the line of thinking that such arbitrariness engenders. If player achievements can be stripped away on a designer's whim, then any illusion that we as players "own" anything in Guild Wars is exposed as a myth. We don't own our characters or their achievements any more than we own the physical memory SIMs in the GW servers.

And if we don't have any stake or claim to what our time investment has resulted in, then what's the point of playing?

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

15 Feb 2007 at 00:21 - 47

Protector titles are all very easy to get but that doesn't mean they should be taken away or stop counting towards KOABD due to Hard Mode.

Having non-grind-based maxable titles (ie: unlike wisdom, treasure hunter etc.), and non-pixel-hunting-based maxable titles (ie:unlike cartographer) are the best thing since sliced bread.

They should add a ton of titles like that. Guardian is a great start and should each count towards an extra title to KOABD in addition to the Protector titles as they were.

If they are gonna take away any titles it should be the grind-based and pixel-hunting-based ones.

TyrianFury

Guest

Join Date: May 2006

UK

E/

15 Feb 2007 at 00:22 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

It was never "tricky". I had Protector of Tyria the moment titles were implemented--I did it originally for a personal sense of completion.

As did I, I also did most of the mapping as well. I'm not going to argue with you and you are indeed entitled to your opinion.

But remember not all players have and the titles are still something for new players to go for. Granted they are in retrospec easier titles. (try going for legendary survivor the legit way by far the oposite) But still to get all of them is an achievemnt.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

15 Feb 2007 at 00:27 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by annika

I can see where you're coming from, but the way they handled it is just plain old fashioned bad customer relationship management. For someone to get one of the "protector" titles - sure, that can happen incidentally, and isn't that hard or rare. However, many players who worked hard towards capturing all three "protector" titles did so based on the assumption that completion would contribute to "kind of a big deal".

I wouldn't call it "hard work". There's a reason I say they're the easiest titles to get--because they are.

Quote:

Given that it takes a time commitment (if not necessarily a skill commitment) to complete 65 missions,

Vastly less than other titles--and it gives you a full three points--this is what should be rectified.

Quote:

One arbitrary title means that all titles are arbitrary, and can have higher ranks or different requirements assigned at a whim.

They've always been arbitrary. Why are people acting like this is so new?

Quote:

And if we don't have any stake or claim to what our time investment has resulted in, then what's the point of playing?

Of course we don't have any stake or claim over our characters or their belongings. We don't own them. It would be foolish for Anet to truly rub this fact in our collective face, but I really don't think bringing the difficulty of three titles up to the level of the others is really such an awful thing.

But this is all moot anyway. They're fixing it to please all of you who can't stand to deal with change.

annika

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2007

15 Feb 2007 at 00:29 - 50

I think you're overreacting by saying that I can't "deal with change". For example, my feet got wet in the snow a few minutes ago, and I now have brand new warm toasty socks on.

I was merely trying to illustrate why this might bother some people more than others, but thanks for your feedback!

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

15 Feb 2007 at 00:33 - 51

Yeesh people, this isn't the French Revolution. Stop alluding to "change." It's a bug! Compare it to...smallpox instead.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

15 Feb 2007 at 00:37 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Yeesh people, this isn't the French Revolution. Stop alluding to "change." It's a bug! Compare it to...smallpox instead.

My point, which you apparently missed entirely, was that if this were not a bug--if they truly intended to make Protector a multi-tier title.

annika

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2007

15 Feb 2007 at 00:39 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Yeesh people, this isn't the French Revolution. Stop alluding to "change." It's a bug! Compare it to...smallpox instead.

LOL, or to "New Coke", President Gore, or Rocky 5. Although if Gore had become president, he wouldn't have made that nifty environmental movie...

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

15 Feb 2007 at 00:40 - 54

If there is no titles at all! Would we even have this discussion today? I think not!

annika

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2007

15 Feb 2007 at 00:40 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

My point, which you apparently missed entirely, was that if this were not a bug--if they truly intended to make Protector a multi-tier title.

LOL, then I guess we're even, since you missed my point that I agree that the titles are easy to earn! It's more the message sent by changing them. Sheesh, try to calm down and enjoy your evening. It's just a game...

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

15 Feb 2007 at 00:52 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

So there's a glitch. They did say there were changes coming to the Protector titles. My question is "What's the glitch and how are the changes going to look after they fix the glitch?" (I'll save my whining against the possible need for it after the glitch is resolved.) It's quite interesting that:

A. They made no mention of title track changes on their update page.

B. They didn't make any changes to the skill hunter title track, even though over 80% of the people polled over the past 3 or 4 months said they wanted it.

and

C. No mention of resolving the Sunspear title maxing issue.

P.S: There are "degrees of difficulty" when going for the protector titles. Getting the title with guildies is easier than doing it with henchies. Doing it with henchies is easier than doing it with PUGs. Doing it with PUGs is easier than doing it with PUGs and being a Mesmer, assasssin, or ritualist. (because it's so hard for these professions to get into PUGs - that's why)

qft with one revision: its *far* easier to get into a pug with a rit than with the others, rits rival rangers for pug popularity... ;P

bart

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 01:51 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

My point, which you apparently missed entirely, was that if this were not a bug--if they truly intended to make Protector a multi-tier title.

i think it would be wrong to make ppl lose their KOABD title if this was not a bug. This is how i look at it.

KOABD = University degree
5 titles to get KOABD = 5 units that u have to pass to get your degree
You get KOABD = You get your degree

Now..
Remove you KOABD because title has changed = Remove your status as a degree holder because your units have changed

How would you feel if you graduated with a degree only for the university to change the units you took and ask you to come back to do it all over again (harder this time) to get the same degree that you had?

Rahl

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

Austin, Tx

Mmph Its [Good]

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 02:19 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I haven't gotten to play yet, so correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you still have Protector of X? It's just a multi-tier title now, like the others.

You are still missing the point.

They changed a title that had been maxed previously without any real reason. Its akin to, say, adding another 5k chests to the Treasure Hunter title because they felt that 10k just wasn't enough. And the other comment about " the devs intending all along to make it multi-tier" is just as bad as George Lucas saying that his "edited and remastered" versions of Star Wars were his "original visions" for them.

scyfer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

15 Feb 2007 at 02:20 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Holy shit.

I honestly can't fathom why people are so upset over this, bug or not.

You don't? I do :S People are lazy and like complaining. If I were then, I would actually more annoyed if: 1) they return KoaBD to the people that maxed these titles in their previous forms and 2) new people need to max it at the "hard" level to achieve the similar achievement. That would be unfair to old vs new players, and a legitimate reason to gripe.

As for the "it's unethical to change the rules of a game once it's started".... WHAT? Are you guys serious? Did you guys even read your terms of service? The same type of ToS that every MMO has. They can change whatever they want, and you agreed to it, and they're trying to improve the game and add more features, and put some challenge into it. And yeah, re: miscommunication, fully agree with The Ernada's comments earlier in this thread: some of you need to fully read before you comment, and if you are incapable of understanding what's going on with game changes, then just refrain from jumping to conclusions.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

15 Feb 2007 at 02:50 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahl

You are still missing the point.

They changed a title that had been maxed previously without any real reason. Its akin to, say, adding another 5k chests to the Treasure Hunter title because they felt that 10k just wasn't enough.

I see no problem with this. They might not have felt it was difficult enough to max the title. Just because it's implemented one way doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever--as stated, this is an online game. Things are going to change.

explodemyheart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Indiana

Gui1d War스 P01ic트 [Pr으]

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 02:57 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahl

You are still missing the point.

They changed a title that had been maxed previously without any real reason. Its akin to, say, adding another 5k chests to the Treasure Hunter title because they felt that 10k just wasn't enough. And the other comment about " the devs intending all along to make it multi-tier" is just as bad as George Lucas saying that his "edited and remastered" versions of Star Wars were his "original visions" for them.

Did you miss the part where what happened was not intended? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

Regardless, even if they did decide that "it wasn't enough" and changed it, it wouldn't have been the first title track changed after it was already implimented in a certain way. Go complain about those too.

noocoo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

15 Feb 2007 at 03:03 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyrianFury

This hard mode is a joke. As I said masters or bonus is the hard mode. Elite missions anyone, heard of DoA, the Deep etc?

Oh and If you have actual mapped all 3 continents you will know just how hard koabd is to get.

Gaile already said that it is a bug, and they will fix it.

What are you still whining for?

Will the hard mode and guardian of X titles have any impact on your exist protector of X titles?

Rahl

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

Austin, Tx

Mmph Its [Good]

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 03:09 - 63

I just wanted to prove my point, that being, the needless changing of titles that were previously maxed (not including Sunspear, since you could not get that maxed without specific circumstances) after them being the same way for months. I realize that the temporary change was not intended to come about as it did, but I have a feeling that it was just to test the publics opinion, if they did in fact, ever change it. It simply is not fair to have to get a title over again simply because someone though it too easy before.

I don't want to keep arguing, so I will simply respect your stances on the subject.

Ensui

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Like I'd tell you?

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 03:42 - 64

If it's supposed to be a "prestigious" title as you infer, then what praytell is the point of getting PKM? Is that the super hax leet prestigious title?

Not even laws in the real world are retroactive to this extent. 9 years ago when I first got my driver's license, Colorado State Law changed to where a driver's license could not be issued unless you were the exact age of sixteen, instead of fifteen and 6 months like it was with me. They did not revoke my license and this law did not affect me even though I wasn't sixteen yet when the law was passed. Now that's a real world example.

Let's say they changed Grandmaster Cartographer to where you now had to explore all cavernous, interior and underground areas? What would you say then? Let's say they made it where each skill point earned would require double the amount of experience as it did previous? Should you be expected to unlearn skills because you did not have enough experience points to counter act that?

Hell, if I were your boss and told you "hey work 20 hours or you won't get paid" then after 20 hours I tell you "sorry, work 40 hours or you won't get paid", tell me, how would you feel?

Of course, if they fix this I won't worry. Just as long as they really fix this and not "fix" it like they "fixed" Summoning Shadows.

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 03:46 - 65

I agree with Kakumei on this issue. These aren't the hardest titles in the game.

Ensui

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Like I'd tell you?

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 03:49 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Did you miss the part where what happened was not intended? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

Regardless, even if they did decide that "it wasn't enough" and changed it, it wouldn't have been the first title track changed after it was already implimented in a certain way. Go complain about those too.

What other one was changed? Please elaborate.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

15 Feb 2007 at 03:54 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

qft with one revision: its *far* easier to get into a pug with a rit than with the others, rits rival rangers for pug popularity... ;P

I wasn't sure about Rits. I don't see many of them running around in Nightfall and Prophecies LFG.

Ensui

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Like I'd tell you?

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 04:00 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I wasn't sure about Rits. I don't see many of them running around in Nightfall and Prophecies LFG.

With the buffs that Nightfall and the previous updates have given, I'd certainly take a rit over most of the other classes now. But Mesmers and Assassins certainly have a hard time. I wish Dervishes would have a harder time since... well, I have my own personal grudge against Dervishes, so I won't digress.

These titles are not hard to get as some have touted off about in this thread. That's not the point though. The point is that a party gave you a goal to achieve so you can reach a certain title or niche, and they stripped you of this title for no apparent reason. Now, some in the thread are apparently okay with getting the shaft. I on the other hand know that no matter what work I do, hard or not, a person, party, or company should not fudge a contract or settlement later on to fit their needs, especially when you've met the prerequisite. No one would accept that in the real world. Why should they accept it here?

Ensui

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Like I'd tell you?

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 04:03 - 69

According to wiki ( <3 ) an recent update just "Fixed a bug that caused some titles to display incorrectly."

Unfortunately I'm not at home yet to validate this. Did this fix the problem? If not, I'm going to be busy when I get home drinking Dwarven Ale. -_-

Spidey

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

15 Feb 2007 at 04:16 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensui

According to wiki ( <3 ) an recent update just "Fixed a bug that caused some titles to display incorrectly."

Unfortunately I'm not at home yet to validate this. Did this fix the problem? If not, I'm going to be busy when I get home drinking Dwarven Ale. -_-

Fixed, my one Protector status now counts again to KoaBD

Ensui

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Like I'd tell you?

Mo/

15 Feb 2007 at 04:21 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spidey

Fixed, my one Protector status now counts again to KoaBD

Woo hoo! Since it's Valentine's Day, I'll even give you a kiss, thanks for the good news.

I can't find the kiss smiley, so here's some tongue.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

15 Feb 2007 at 05:05 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensui

These titles are not hard to get as some have touted off about in this thread. That's not the point though. The point is that a party gave you a goal to achieve so you can reach a certain title or niche, and they stripped you of this title for no apparent reason. Now, some in the thread are apparently okay with getting the shaft. I on the other hand know that no matter what work I do, hard or not, a person, party, or company should not fudge a contract or settlement later on to fit their needs, especially when you've met the prerequisite. No one would accept that in the real world. Why should they accept it here?

Exactly, the problem isn't about how easy or hard it is to get the title, but getting the title stripped from you after you've earned it. "Pray I don't alter our deal anymore." - Darth Vader.

Now, they have fixed the glitch. The original "Protector" title does count for KoaBD for those of us who earned it BEFORE the update (Grandfather clause FTW!). But it appears that if you didn't get the "Protector" title before hand, it WON'T count until you've done the "Hard" mode, too. I've got a Guildie who only needs 2 bonuses to get protector title for Nightfall & he's checking it out now - should know by tomorrow if that's the way it is.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

15 Feb 2007 at 05:45 - 73

my ele only needs 1 more in cantha for the title and 2 in tyria.....now she will have to redo ALL of them to get the same title my monk has??? thats just inane....and insane........I dont think she should be required to do twice as much work for one more mission she missed because she didnt get vizuah square in the alloted time.....arrrrgghghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tay123

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 05:57 - 74

I feel it would be unfair if they made the guardian titles being maxed instead of the protector title being maxed. It is like taking away something u have already accomplished. Forexample, you worked your way up in the military for years and one day a General comes and says that "now you I am taking away your ranks" without giving any reaons for it. I personally dont care what the TOS says about it and will fight it forever if that comes true.Furthermore, what is next after they do this? Add more areas to Cantha, Tyria and Elona and take away the catographer titles? I think Arena Net should get its act together! The players whom started this game longgg time ago with Tyrian chars cant even get 1337 or the Legendary X of Tyria titles. And couple of words to those whom says those titles are the easiest... your simple words cant put down peoples hard works...

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

15 Feb 2007 at 15:03 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Now, they have fixed the glitch. The original "Protector" title does count for KoaBD for those of us who earned it BEFORE the update (Grandfather clause FTW!). But it appears that if you didn't get the "Protector" title before hand, it WON'T count until you've done the "Hard" mode, too. I've got a Guildie who only needs 2 bonuses to get protector title for Nightfall & he's checking it out now - should know by tomorrow if that's the way it is.

DON'T PANIC! I was only bringing up a possibility. (highlighted text should have made that clear.)

bug_out

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

R/E

15 Feb 2007 at 19:22 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

If there is no titles at all! Would we even have this discussion today? I think not!

Heh, we wouldn't be having this discussion, no, but some people would be arguing about something else.

Income Tax

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2006

15 Feb 2007 at 19:48 - 77

Looks like the title should be renamed from Kind of a big deal to
"This is a very big deal, eventhough it is only tier 1"

TheRaven

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Virginia

Spirit of Elisha

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 19:53 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by bug_out

Heh, we wouldn't be having this discussion, no, but some people would be arguing about something else.

LOL, there would be 1,000 different threads in Sardelac Sanitarium suggesting that A-Net needs some way for us Leet players to display the fact that we've done every mission in every game and earned masters.

1 thread would suggest a new rank emote for finishing masters on each mission.
1 thread would suggest a new armor skin for finishing X number of missions
1 thread would suggest a special weapon skin for opening X number of chests
1 thread would suggest a rank emote for finishing each game.
etc, etc, etc.

Lawnmower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/R

15 Feb 2007 at 20:26 - 79

no hard mode on the way?

DAMMIT.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

15 Feb 2007 at 20:45 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Income Tax

Looks like the title should be renamed from Kind of a big deal to
"This is a very big deal, eventhough it is only tier 1"

QFT... the amount of whining people did you'd think Anet had accidently deleted there character.